Effects with No Effects

[Darren]

I am working on a project at school (western michigan university)
where we have to record a song and add effects to it, but without
using any processors. Sure I have plenty of options for finding
reverb throughout the building, but I was wondering if anyone had any
ideas for creating other effects? I remember reading in tapeop a
while back about being able to create a phase effect by micing with
two mics and swinging one of them back and forth. Any ideas would be
greatly appreciated, and maybe even useful to others. Thanks.

Darren

[dt king]

"Darren" > wrote in message
om...
> I am working on a project at school (western michigan university)
> where we have to record a song and add effects to it, but without
> using any processors. Sure I have plenty of options for finding
> reverb throughout the building, but I was wondering if anyone had any
> ideas for creating other effects? I remember reading in tapeop a
> while back about being able to create a phase effect by micing with
> two mics and swinging one of them back and forth. Any ideas would be
> greatly appreciated, and maybe even useful to others. Thanks.

This is the second time I've mentioned smokey amps,
http://zinky.com/Smokey.html this week. I swear I don't work for zinky.

Put a BB on the speaker and it's a ring modulator. Take off your shoe and
put your foot over the speakers and you can get a wah effect by lifting
your foot. Put one in a coffee can for a kind of reverb. Duct tape a
smokey to a variable speed table fan for leslie sound.

If you've got a reel to reel, you can add echo -- however it's been about
twenty years since I've tried that and I forget how.

You've already got a handle on distortion, right?

dtk

[Monte P McGuire]

In article >,
Darren > wrote:
>I am working on a project at school (western michigan university)
>where we have to record a song and add effects to it, but without
>using any processors. Sure I have plenty of options for finding
>reverb throughout the building, but I was wondering if anyone had any
>ideas for creating other effects? I remember reading in tapeop a
>while back about being able to create a phase effect by micing with
>two mics and swinging one of them back and forth. Any ideas would be
>greatly appreciated, and maybe even useful to others. Thanks.

You can get a pretty neat rotary speaker type effect by passing audio
(acoustically) through a box fan whose blades are rotating.


Have fun,

Monte McGuire

[2mb]

you could do a flange with 2 tape decks... this is arguably the best flange
you could possibly do, since you have real control over what is happening.
Simple to understand, difficult to master: )
Record your instrument (or vocal)feeding 2 tape decks, or record then make a
copy.
Play the copies in sync on both decks feeding both into your mixer. Record
the deck you are fiddling with to an open channel. Fiddle with bumping the
speed on one of the decks by touching the feed reel with your finger tips to
slow it down, then ever so slightly increasing the speed of the take up reel
by putting your finger on it and speeding it up til you are on the other
side of being out of sync, while recording the whole thing. Repeat. Viola,
flange. I advise you to practice before hitting record.

It will take some practice but you might get something really cool if you
actually put some effort into it.

You could also do a slap back echo effect by getting into the right size
room with one reflective wall. I am sure others will chime in on this one: )
Think Jerry Lee Lewis and you will get an idea of what slapback does.

This is arguably the best slapback that money can buy. Most of the old
timers will tell you that there isn't anything as good as doing effects the
way they were discovered, and doing them manually with analog techniques. By
and large they are right. I think dsp's only buy you ease of use and save
some technique practice.

Get a variable speed tape deck and feed loop through it instead of reel to
reel. Echoplex... AKA delay. I wish you lived in maryland, I would meet you
somewhere so you could use mine.

Distortion.... plug in a guitar and turn up the amp all the way.
Digital processors can only approximate these effects. The real deal is,
well, the real deal. It just takes a little more time (sometimes: ) to get
it right. I have played with doing things this way periodically and had a
lot of fun with it.

We record people in my brother's 2 story stair case all the time. It is all
hardwood and is a great short reverb. I imagine at school you could get some
very long reverbs if you went in at night

It sounds like you have a great professor. You should take these exercises
seriously as they will help you understand what it is that your processors
do. You may even not use some digital stuff anymore after you get done.


"Darren" > wrote in message
om...
> I am working on a project at school (western michigan university)
> where we have to record a song and add effects to it, but without
> using any processors. Sure I have plenty of options for finding
> reverb throughout the building, but I was wondering if anyone had any
> ideas for creating other effects? I remember reading in tapeop a
> while back about being able to create a phase effect by micing with
> two mics and swinging one of them back and forth. Any ideas would be
> greatly appreciated, and maybe even useful to others. Thanks.
>
> Darren

[S O'Neill]

Tune an electric guitar to an open chord and feed the send into the pickups and
mic the string vibration produced by that.

Darren wrote:
> I am working on a project at school (western michigan university)
> where we have to record a song and add effects to it, but without
> using any processors. Sure I have plenty of options for finding
> reverb throughout the building, but I was wondering if anyone had any
> ideas for creating other effects? I remember reading in tapeop a
> while back about being able to create a phase effect by micing with
> two mics and swinging one of them back and forth. Any ideas would be
> greatly appreciated, and maybe even useful to others. Thanks.
>
> Darren

[Steven Sena]

Take one bath tub fill with water
Take one speaker wrap well with plastic
Take one microphone wrap well with plastic
Submerge both speaker and microphone in tub
Record results...
This one is for bragging rights more than anything else...


--
Steven Sena
XS Sound
www.xssound.com


"Darren" > wrote in message
om...
> I am working on a project at school (western michigan university)
> where we have to record a song and add effects to it, but without
> using any processors. Sure I have plenty of options for finding
> reverb throughout the building, but I was wondering if anyone had any
> ideas for creating other effects? I remember reading in tapeop a
> while back about being able to create a phase effect by micing with
> two mics and swinging one of them back and forth. Any ideas would be
> greatly appreciated, and maybe even useful to others. Thanks.
>
> Darren

[S O'Neill]

You could just hold the peaker at the surface so only the front or back of the
cone actually contacts the water, less phase cancellation.

But more importantly, this could cause some serious death if there's an
electrical fault, so be careful.

Steven Sena wrote:
> Take one bath tub fill with water
> Take one speaker wrap well with plastic
> Take one microphone wrap well with plastic
> Submerge both speaker and microphone in tub
> Record results...
> This one is for bragging rights more than anything else...
>
>

[Steven Sena]

well....uh....
Use a dynamic mic and NOT a self powered speaker...
Sorry, sometimes I forget what people are capable of...
--
Steven Sena
XS Sound
www.xssound.com


"S O'Neill" > wrote in message
...
> You could just hold the peaker at the surface so only the front or back of
the
> cone actually contacts the water, less phase cancellation.
>
> But more importantly, this could cause some serious death if there's an
> electrical fault, so be careful.
>
> Steven Sena wrote:
> > Take one bath tub fill with water
> > Take one speaker wrap well with plastic
> > Take one microphone wrap well with plastic
> > Submerge both speaker and microphone in tub
> > Record results...
> > This one is for bragging rights more than anything else...
> >
> >
>

[Luke Kaven]

"Steven Sena" > wrote:

>Take one bath tub fill with water
>Take one speaker wrap well with plastic
>Take one microphone wrap well with plastic
>Submerge both speaker and microphone in tub
>Record results...
>This one is for bragging rights more than anything else...

I think that was also a Geoff Emerick trick.

[S O'Neill]

Actually, I was referring to any AC powered device operated near a bathtub,
meaning a speaker powered by anything but batteries, and a mic plugged into a
mixer powered by anything but batteries, etc, etc.

If it's connected to a wall outlet somewhere, it's a possible threat.

Steven Sena wrote:

> well....uh....
> Use a dynamic mic and NOT a self powered speaker...
> Sorry, sometimes I forget what people are capable of...

[Michael R. Kesti]

Darren wrote:

>I am working on a project at school (western michigan university)
>where we have to record a song and add effects to it, but without
>using any processors. Sure I have plenty of options for finding
>reverb throughout the building, but I was wondering if anyone had any
>ideas for creating other effects? I remember reading in tapeop a
>while back about being able to create a phase effect by micing with
>two mics and swinging one of them back and forth. Any ideas would be
>greatly appreciated, and maybe even useful to others. Thanks.
>
>Darren

You've already received some great suggestions and I'm finding nothing
to expand on them, but I am moved to say that this is an excellent
assignment and that you will probably learn more doing this than most.

Kudos to your instructor!

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
| - The Who, Bargain

[Steven Sena]

I think at that point it gets into natural selection...

--
Steven Sena
XS Sound
www.xssound.com


"S O'Neill" > wrote in message
...
> Actually, I was referring to any AC powered device operated near a
bathtub,
> meaning a speaker powered by anything but batteries, and a mic plugged
into a
> mixer powered by anything but batteries, etc, etc.
>
> If it's connected to a wall outlet somewhere, it's a possible threat.
>
> Steven Sena wrote:
>
> > well....uh....
> > Use a dynamic mic and NOT a self powered speaker...
> > Sorry, sometimes I forget what people are capable of...
>

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> you could do a flange with 2 tape decks... this is arguably the best flange
> you could possibly do, since you have real control over what is happening.

It's the only REAL flang effect, assuming you use reels with real
flanges.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Tune an electric guitar to an open chord and feed the send into the pickups and
> mic the string vibration produced by that.

Does that really work? I once saw someone lean a Dobro (also open
tuned) with a pickup against an amplifier and use the pickup output
through a direct box instead of a mic on the amplifier. That was
pretty weird.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Neil Henderson]

>You could just hold the peaker at the surface so only the front or back of
>the
>cone actually contacts the water, less phase cancellation.
>
>But more importantly, this could cause some serious death if there's an
>electrical fault, so be careful.

As opposed to the non-serious kind of death... which is, well, just not quite
as serious.

NeilH

[Mike Caffrey]

Like the guitar with an open tuning, put a weight on a piano damper pedal
and record the strings.

Compress the tom ringing for a reverb, but for drums and anything that
causes a sympathetic vibration.

Bass too or even materials like aluminum - think place reverb r spring reverb.

Put a speaker on a springed cot.



www.monsterisland.com

[dt king]

"Mike Caffrey" > wrote in message
...
>
> Put a speaker on a springed cot.

Speaking of springs -- I'm not sure how you'd hook it up, but good
old-fashioned steel slinkies have some amazing harmonics. Tape one end to
the bottom of a disposable plastic cup and stretch it out to get an idea of
what it does; put your ear to the cup. If you can work out attaching a
speaker and a mic to the ends, that'd give you a kind of spring reverb.

dtk

[S O'Neill]

Mike Rivers wrote:

>>Tune an electric guitar to an open chord and feed the send into the pickups and
>>mic the string vibration produced by that.
>
>
> Does that really work? I once saw someone lean a Dobro (also open
> tuned) with a pickup against an amplifier and use the pickup output
> through a direct box instead of a mic on the amplifier. That was
> pretty weird.


I heard a guy on the radio (KPFA) one night, playing a composition that used a
Stratocaster like this (yes I stole the idea). It was an absolutely gorgeous
sound that bore a slight resemblance to the source, but was mostly sort of like
an e-bowed windchime, if that makes any sense.

[Gary]

"Michael R. Kesti" > wrote in message >...
> Darren wrote:
>
> >I am working on a project at school (western michigan university)
> >where we have to record a song and add effects to it, but without
> >using any processors. Sure I have plenty of options for finding
> >reverb throughout the building, but I was wondering if anyone had any
> >ideas for creating other effects? I remember reading in tapeop a
> >while back about being able to create a phase effect by micing with
> >two mics and swinging one of them back and forth. Any ideas would be
> >greatly appreciated, and maybe even useful to others. Thanks.
> >
> >Darren
>
> You've already received some great suggestions and I'm finding nothing
> to expand on them, but I am moved to say that this is an excellent
> assignment and that you will probably learn more doing this than most.
>
> Kudos to your instructor!

yeah, i like this guy, too!

how about just re-amping a room. put up a speaker (or two) in a live
room. put up a mic (or two)
on the other side of the room, maybe even facing a reflective surface.
send a signal of anything
that suits your fancy (vocals only, drums only, elec guitars only,
piano only, or any combination/permutation thereof) and feed the
signal back into the mix to taste. not exactly brilliant or
ground-breaking, but pleasant, nice and usable. i still do this once
in awhile to drum machines on R&B and HipHop tracks on the choruses
only. nothing in the rack sounds quite like it.

gary0

[Buster Mudd]

"dt king" > wrote in message . net>...
>
> Speaking of springs -- I'm not sure how you'd hook it up, but good
> old-fashioned steel slinkies have some amazing harmonics. Tape one end to
> the bottom of a disposable plastic cup and stretch it out to get an idea of
> what it does; put your ear to the cup. If you can work out attaching a
> speaker and a mic to the ends, that'd give you a kind of spring reverb.
>

Circa 1974 or 1975 the band Yes had an Electric Slinky as part of
their onstage arsenal. Jon Anderson used to whack it during the
cacophonous middle section of "The Gates Of Delirium" to make these
horrendous clangorous explosions. Not sure how it was wired up, but
based on the sound I would suspect As Primitively As Possible.

[P Stamler]

>I heard a guy on the radio (KPFA) one night, playing a composition that used
>a
>Stratocaster like this (yes I stole the idea). It was an absolutely gorgeous
>
>sound that bore a slight resemblance to the source, but was mostly sort of
>like
>an e-bowed windchime, if that makes any sense.

Robin Williamson did this on a mid-period Incredible String Band record; sang
at a sitar with a pickup on it, blended the track from the sitar with his
voice. He called it a "voice sitar". Sounded very neat, especially when he got
the sympathetic strings vibrating.

Peace,
Paul

[Phil Oliver]

In article >,
(Darren) wrote:

> I am working on a project at school (western michigan university)
> where we have to record a song and add effects to it, but without
> using any processors. Sure I have plenty of options for finding
> reverb throughout the building, but I was wondering if anyone had any
> ideas for creating other effects? I remember reading in tapeop a
> while back about being able to create a phase effect by micing with
> two mics and swinging one of them back and forth. Any ideas would be
> greatly appreciated, and maybe even useful to others. Thanks.
>
> Darren

Take a mic and stick it in a glass chimney (the type on old kerosene
lamps). Record with it or play back a track through a speaker and
re-record the track. Try the microphone at different positions within.
Something about the shape of those old chimneys results in some bizzare
acoustics.

Phil

[Mike Rivers]

These are all interesting suggestions, but effects need to be
appropriate for the music.

We haven't a clue at this point as to what would be of use and what
would just be plain weird.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Rick Powell]

(Darren) wrote in message >...
> I am working on a project at school (western michigan university)
> where we have to record a song and add effects to it, but without
> using any processors. Sure I have plenty of options for finding
> reverb throughout the building, but I was wondering if anyone had any
> ideas for creating other effects? I remember reading in tapeop a
> while back about being able to create a phase effect by micing with
> two mics and swinging one of them back and forth. Any ideas would be
> greatly appreciated, and maybe even useful to others. Thanks.
>
> Darren

For a distortion effect, you could replace the speaker in an amp with
a cheap speaker, poke some holes in the speaker cone, use an effects
send to send the unprocessed signal to the amp, and record the "fuzz"
effect. You can also try loosening up (but not removing) a power tube
or 2 in the amp while you're at it.

RP

[P Stamler]

Put a couple of marbles inside one of those 3-foot-diameter beach ball
balloons, blow it up and seal it, then tape a miniature microphone (Radio Shack
will do) to the outside. Shake it just right and you get the sound of an
explosion.

Take some sheet metal roofing material and shake it to get the sound of
thunder, more or less. (It's been done on record already: Pete Seeger in "Lines
Horizontal", c. 1955. He used some sheets for the recording, then nailed them
up onto the house he was building.)

Well, we're getting into sound effects here rather than signal processing. Try
hooking the output of an analog tape deck, if you have one around, through a
console and back to its input. Set on "Source", you get feedback, frequency
adjustable by the EQ. Set on tape, with the gain right, you get a pounding
thumpa-thumpa that you can mess with in all sorts of mysterious ways. Record
half an hour of that, then listen to it in fast forward.

Peace,
Paul

[Scott Dorsey]

P Stamler > wrote:
>Well, we're getting into sound effects here rather than signal processing. Try
>hooking the output of an analog tape deck, if you have one around, through a
>console and back to its input. Set on "Source", you get feedback, frequency
>adjustable by the EQ. Set on tape, with the gain right, you get a pounding
>thumpa-thumpa that you can mess with in all sorts of mysterious ways. Record
>half an hour of that, then listen to it in fast forward.

We did an amazing celebrity ID with tape regeneration. "Hi, this is God.
And when I'm in Atlanta, which is always, because I'm omnipresent, I listen
to all the radio stations at the same time, because I'm omnipotent. But
especially WREK, 89.7 FM."
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ralph & Diane Barone]

In article >,
(Buster Mudd) wrote:

>"dt king" > wrote in message
. net>...
>>
>> Speaking of springs -- I'm not sure how you'd hook it up, but good
>> old-fashioned steel slinkies have some amazing harmonics. Tape one end to
>> the bottom of a disposable plastic cup and stretch it out to get an idea of
>> what it does; put your ear to the cup. If you can work out attaching a
>> speaker and a mic to the ends, that'd give you a kind of spring reverb.
>>
>
>Circa 1974 or 1975 the band Yes had an Electric Slinky as part of
>their onstage arsenal. Jon Anderson used to whack it during the
>cacophonous middle section of "The Gates Of Delirium" to make these
>horrendous clangorous explosions. Not sure how it was wired up, but
>based on the sound I would suspect As Primitively As Possible.

What? Nobody has mentioned the garden hose reverb yet?