Building speakers cabinets

[Laung Anthique]

Can anyone recommend a good book or other resource on
building your own speakers? I've got an idea for a
possible side business and I'm interested in learning
how to create cases/cabinets out of wood to house
speakers I can buy off the shelf. These would be for
home stereo and theater use, not for studio monitoring
(though I wouldn't mind learning how to build cases for
those either).

--
Laung Anthique
http://www.ironia.net
http://www.cultv.com

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
Laung Anthique > wrote:
>Can anyone recommend a good book or other resource on
>building your own speakers? I've got an idea for a
>possible side business and I'm interested in learning
>how to create cases/cabinets out of wood to house
>speakers I can buy off the shelf. These would be for
>home stereo and theater use, not for studio monitoring
>(though I wouldn't mind learning how to build cases for
>those either).

Vance Dickason's _Loudspeaker Cookbook_ has a nice introduction to speaker
system design, as well as some introductory woodworking information along
with it.

The Grubsrof book on pro audio enclosures is a good introduction to how to
construct big cabinets and do Autocad layouts for them, though it has basically
no trustworthy information on acoustic design.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[P Stamler]

>Vance Dickason's _Loudspeaker Cookbook_ has a nice introduction to speaker
>system design, as well as some introductory woodworking information along
>with it.

That is a good book. But it's aimed mostly at home builders, and the techniques
used for mass-production of cabinets are somewhat different. To do it
economically, you really need a pretty hefty investment in equipment.

If you're planning very small runs, then home-type construction techniques make
more sense. But you'll then find that your prices aren't competitive with the
mass-producers of cabinets. So your cabinets will need some pretty special
atributes to justify their higher prices.

Not that it can't be done, but those are the realities of the marketplace these
days.

Peace,
Paul

[Laung Anthique]

In article <20031030141930.29188.00000004@mb-
m29.aol.com>, says...
> >Vance Dickason's _Loudspeaker Cookbook_ has a nice introduction to speaker
> >system design, as well as some introductory woodworking information along
> >with it.
>
> That is a good book. But it's aimed mostly at home builders, and the techniques
> used for mass-production of cabinets are somewhat different. To do it
> economically, you really need a pretty hefty investment in equipment.
>
> If you're planning very small runs, then home-type construction techniques make
> more sense. But you'll then find that your prices aren't competitive with the
> mass-producers of cabinets. So your cabinets will need some pretty special
> atributes to justify their higher prices.
>
> Not that it can't be done, but those are the realities of the marketplace these
> days.

I won't give up my day job yet. :-)

Thanks Scott and Paul. That gives me a place to start.

--
Laung Anthique
http://www.ironia.net
http://www.cultv.com

[Ben Bradley]

In rec.audio.pro, Laung Anthique > wrote:

>Can anyone recommend a good book or other resource on
>building your own speakers?

There are lots, I've seen a lot of stuff online, google for DIY
speakers or DIY loudspeakers. There are websites and mailing lists,
and I recall this to be a semiregular topic on rec.audio.tech.
Perhaps the most authorative book is "High Performance
Loudspeakers" (the latest is the 5th edition) by Martin Colloms. This
goes into driver design as well as cabinet design, and may be more
than you want to know (until you start building 'studio monitors') or
more than you want to spend on a book.
There are many 'speaker construction' books by David B. Weems, and
the two I have have some theory and formulas as well as some
'cookbook' designs. You can find these and the Colloms and Dickason
books through <http://www.bookfinder.com>.
You can still get most back issues of Speaker Builder magazine
(published 1980 through 2000) from <http://www.audioxpress.com>. The
original Audio Amateur (from its start in 1970 until speaker articles
were spun of into Speaker Builder) and the current AudioXpress
magazines have loudspeaker articles, but are probably not worth
getting unless you want these for the other articles too.

>I've got an idea for a
>possible side business and I'm interested in learning
>how to create cases/cabinets out of wood to house
>speakers I can buy off the shelf.

Paul spelled out what I suspected about the business (or any
business where manufacturing is a significant part). I recall an
article in a Heathkit catalog (circa 1960's) suggesting you might make
a home business assembling and selling assembled Heathkits. Such an
idea would be ludicrus now, and it was probably marginal then.

>These would be for
>home stereo and theater use, not for studio monitoring
>(though I wouldn't mind learning how to build cases for
>those either).

Building cases is just the start (or probably closer to the end of
the process). There's also a lot to selecting drivers and designing
crossovers.

>--
>Laung Anthique
> http://www.ironia.net
> http://www.cultv.com

[nmm]

There's a program by JBL that 'vitually models' speakers you plan on
building.

Use 20 ply Baltic Birch in Trapazoidal boxes, excessive but effective.

[Laung Anthique]

> Building cases is just the start (or probably closer to the end of
> the process). There's also a lot to selecting drivers and designing
> crossovers.

It might be a dumb idea. I have a friend who is an
extraordinarily gifted wood worker. He creates museum
quality pieces.

He's been trying to come up with a business idea. I
wondered if together, given his unusual talents, we
might be able to design truly beautiful home speakers
that would look good in even the most lavishly furnished
homes.

All I've got to offer is a pair of pretty good ears and
a little bit of business knowledge. He could turn the
cases and stands into fine furniture.

Maybe some rich people would buy it. I don't know.

--
Laung Anthique
http://www.ironia.net
http://www.cultv.com

[Kalman Rubinson]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:32:56 GMT, Laung Anthique
> wrote:

>> Building cases is just the start (or probably closer to the end of
>> the process). There's also a lot to selecting drivers and designing
>> crossovers.

Amen. In fact, that and designing the cabinets for acoustic
performance are the real issues. Cosmetics are easy.

>It might be a dumb idea. I have a friend who is an
>extraordinarily gifted wood worker. He creates museum
>quality pieces.
>
>He's been trying to come up with a business idea. I
>wondered if together, given his unusual talents, we
>might be able to design truly beautiful home speakers
>that would look good in even the most lavishly furnished
>homes.

They might.

>All I've got to offer is a pair of pretty good ears and
>a little bit of business knowledge. He could turn the
>cases and stands into fine furniture.

Now, all you need is an engineer with knowledge.

>Maybe some rich people would buy it. I don't know.

Only trusting and ignorant rich people. Frankly, there already are
any number of elegant and well-designed speakers for prices from here
to inanity. Most lines based primarily on appearance are either cheap
junk or extinct.

Kal (who once was in that business)

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:32:56 GMT, Laung Anthique
> wrote:

> I have a friend who is an
>extraordinarily gifted wood worker. He creates museum
>quality pieces.

> He could turn the
>cases and stands into fine furniture.

Maybe the customer could supply existing commercial
speakers that they already like enough to have purchased?
Your friend could build beautiful shells for them,
that would incidentally improve the sound by strengthening the
nasty commercial wooden boxes.

Just a thought.
Good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
new email address

[Kalman Rubinson]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:53:33 GMT, Chris Hornbeck
> wrote:

>Maybe the customer could supply existing commercial
>speakers that they already like enough to have purchased?
>Your friend could build beautiful shells for them,
>that would incidentally improve the sound by strengthening the
>nasty commercial wooden boxes.

And change the dispersion characteristics at the same time....

Kal

[Laung Anthique]

In article >,
says...
> Now, all you need is an engineer with knowledge.

Trial and error is out of the question? I do have good
ears.

> >Maybe some rich people would buy it. I don't know.
>
> Only trusting and ignorant rich people.

I would never put out a product that I considered to be
inferior and I'm definitely an audiophile.

> Frankly, there already are
> any number of elegant and well-designed speakers for prices from here
> to inanity. Most lines based primarily on appearance are either cheap
> junk or extinct.

Ah, so does it seem to be the case, in your experience,
that what makes a speaker look great and what makes a
speaker sound great tend to be antagonistic?
Interesting. I wonder why that is.

The other idea I had was to build custom guitars.
That's a pretty crowded field too, but I do think he
could make guitars that were so beautiful, they'd demand
a premium. Hopefully beauty and playability aren't also
antagonistic.

Others in that line of work have also told us it'd be
tough to do well.

It seems weird that I've got a guy who is so damned good
and we can't come up with something. The obvious answer
is fine furniture, though competing with the cheap
Malaysian imports is tough. Still, there are people who
know the difference between find workmanship and that
crap (which admittedly looks pretty good to the
untrained eye).

--
Laung Anthique
http://www.ironia.net
http://www.cultv.com

[Kalman Rubinson]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:21:46 GMT, Laung Anthique
> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> Now, all you need is an engineer with knowledge.
>
>Trial and error is out of the question? I do have good
>ears.

Important but insuffient, imho. There have been and will
be many boutique lines done that way but the really successful lines
have a good technical footing.

>I would never put out a product that I considered to be
>inferior and I'm definitely an audiophile.

I understand but how will you decide? It is all too easy to get
hooked on your own stuff.

>Ah, so does it seem to be the case, in your experience,
>that what makes a speaker look great and what makes a
>speaker sound great tend to be antagonistic?

Not at all. Both require good design but from experts of different
sorts.

>The other idea I had was to build custom guitars.
>That's a pretty crowded field too, but I do think he
>could make guitars that were so beautiful, they'd demand
>a premium. Hopefully beauty and playability aren't also
>antagonistic.

I doubt it but cannot profess to know anything about guitars.

>It seems weird that I've got a guy who is so damned good
>and we can't come up with something. The obvious answer
>is fine furniture, though competing with the cheap
>Malaysian imports is tough.

Hah. If he is that good, you will not be competing with cheap imports
and, if he is not, you will find out soon.

Kal

[Laung Anthique]

In article >,
says...
> I understand but how will you decide? It is all too easy to get
> hooked on your own stuff.

I suppose you're right. I do have some pretty damned
good speakers here against which to compare though and I
am generally annoyingly honest with myself and others.

> Hah. If he is that good, you will not be competing with cheap imports
> and, if he is not, you will find out soon.

It's be nice to come up with a product that would arouse
our passions. He is also a musician.

I'm feeling rather less than optimistic at this point.
We should have done this when we were younger and didn't
know any better.

The current job market is a motivator however.

--
Laung Anthique
http://www.ironia.net
http://www.cultv.com

[Kalman Rubinson]

I am sorry if I come on too strong but it's not as simple or easy as
most hobbyists think until they try it. OTOH, some will make it
although the vast majority fail. Your first step is to do the
readings already suggested and decide on a specific approach. Then
build and build another and get lots of outside assessments.

Good luck.

Kal


On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 03:51:09 GMT, Laung Anthique
> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> I understand but how will you decide? It is all too easy to get
>> hooked on your own stuff.
>
>I suppose you're right. I do have some pretty damned
>good speakers here against which to compare though and I
>am generally annoyingly honest with myself and others.
>
>> Hah. If he is that good, you will not be competing with cheap imports
>> and, if he is not, you will find out soon.
>
>It's be nice to come up with a product that would arouse
>our passions. He is also a musician.
>
>I'm feeling rather less than optimistic at this point.
>We should have done this when we were younger and didn't
>know any better.
>
>The current job market is a motivator however.

[Laung Anthique]

In article >,
says...
> I am sorry if I come on too strong but it's not as simple or easy as
> most hobbyists think until they try it.

That's okay, Kal. I genuinely appreciate your honesty.

> OTOH, some will make it
> although the vast majority fail. Your first step is to do the
> readings already suggested and decide on a specific approach. Then
> build and build another and get lots of outside assessments.

Any directional suggestions? The strength we have is
excellent wood working capability and truly
extraordinary finishes (quite out of the ordinary).

If not, that's okay. Again, I appreciate your
cautionary posts. Thank you for taking the time to warn
us. I will definitely keep it in mind and pass along
the long odds to my partner.

We are both family men and need to make sober decisions.

--Nick

[P Stamler]

Just a couple ruminations...several years ago I worked at the Speaker & Stereo
Store, and one of the things we did was design custom speakers. It's *not* easy
from a technical point of view, but we did come up with one design that was
really nice. (A version was published in Recording, in fact.) We built another
pair, and they were really nice too. So we decided to build three more pairs to
sell at the store. And they sounded like crap.

Same drivers. Well, we *thought* they were the same drivers, but when we
compared newer versions of the midrange driver with older ones (same model
number), they were quite different. No notice from the manufacturer of any
change, of course.

Not quite the same cabinets. Reinforcing the daylights out of the new cabinets
helped a lot. But it wasn't the same. Ever.

Another thing that makes this tough: most fine furniture is made out of
beautiful solid wood. Solid wood, unfortunately, is awful for speaker cabinets,
as it's insufficiently damped. Good cabinet materials include Baltic Birch
plywood, as many layers as possible; MDF is not quite as good but better than
gorgeous solid wood. So your fine cabinets would need to be veneered, not
solid, something not all fine woodworkers have experience with.

Then there's the technical design. How many drivers? First, second, third or
fourth order crossover? At what frequencies? Butterworth or Linkwitz-Riley?
Flat on-axis or flat power response? Zobel networks to correct for voice coil
inductance? How about driver resonance compensation networks? What about phase
compensation (really delay compensation)? What about diffraction control? Wide
or narrow dispersion? How will you place the drivers on the cabinet? Vented
box, closed box, isobaric, bandpass? What Q? What about stuffing -- Dacron,
foam, fiberglass (please no), or something exotic? What about wall damping? And
at least 100 other questions.

I'm not trying to snowball you -- well, yes I am, too. The thing is, designing
a really good speaker is HARD, even when you do it with a modicum of science.
Designing one by trial and error is almost impossible and very, very expensive,
as you'll keep needing to build new cabinets over and over. And even if you get
a pair of really good speakers, it's no guarantee you'll ever be able to build
another pair just like it. (That last point is what sunk our little effort.)

Go read Vance Dickason's book for a good introduction to the science of speaker
design, from a home-builder's point of view. Then go read Martin Colloms for a
more advanced look, more of a manufacturer's viewpoint. And if you really want
to get sobered, get a bunch of back issues of Stereophile and The Absolute
Sound from about five years ago and write down the names of all the speaker
manufacturers that advertised there or had their speakers reviewed. Then get
some current issues and see how many of the manufacturers are still around.

Back when, Audio Magazine published a directory of hi-fi equipment every
October which covered just about everything available on the market, from Rat
Shack Minimus 7s to the highest of the high end (I think the price record was
something like $210,000, but it may have been beaten by now.) There were more
speakers listed than any other product. Someone back in the 1980s is reported
to have said that there were more speaker manufacturers out there than
audiophiles.

Building speakers really is a mug's game in a lot of ways; too much
competition, way too hard to do well, and a real chance of going bankrupt in a
hurry. Unless you have a REALLY innovative technical development (which will
not, probably, happen by trial and error) just about everything out there's
already being done by someone else. Guitars are that way too, and there are an
awful lot of good builders out there right now.

I think, quite seriously, if your friend is a really good furniture maker, what
he should make is furniture.

Peace,
Paul

[Kalman Rubinson]

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 04:09:56 GMT, Laung Anthique
> wrote:

>Any directional suggestions? The strength we have is
>excellent wood working capability and truly
>extraordinary finishes (quite out of the ordinary).

Sorry. I see the market pretty well served and my interests are less
cosmetic and more about performance and value.

>We are both family men and need to make sober decisions.

Yup. That's why I got out. ;-)

Kal

[Ryan Mitchley]

Hi Laung

You really need a solid technical foundation for speaker building.

What *may* be possible and relatively cheap is to hook up with a local
university that has an acoustics or electrical engineering department. You
really want one that has an anechoic chamber and some decent measurement
equipment. They could possibly test designs and suggest improvements to you.
At the very minimum they could tell you precisely how far short your designs
fall of the commercial competition.

Offer a potential position to the graduate or postgraduate who is able to
assist you successfully.

Ryan

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
Laung Anthique > wrote:
>> Building cases is just the start (or probably closer to the end of
>> the process). There's also a lot to selecting drivers and designing
>> crossovers.
>
>It might be a dumb idea. I have a friend who is an
>extraordinarily gifted wood worker. He creates museum
>quality pieces.
>
>He's been trying to come up with a business idea. I
>wondered if together, given his unusual talents, we
>might be able to design truly beautiful home speakers
>that would look good in even the most lavishly furnished
>homes.
>
>All I've got to offer is a pair of pretty good ears and
>a little bit of business knowledge. He could turn the
>cases and stands into fine furniture.
>
>Maybe some rich people would buy it. I don't know.

Get a copy of Stereophile and look through it. Take a trip to a real
high end store and look at some stuff like the Jadis, Legacy, and Voce Prima
speakers. Check out some of the wooden horn designs.

This is the competition. These are the people you're trying to go up against.
There's a big market there, but it's also a pretty well filled one.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
Kalman Rubinson > wrote:
>On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:53:33 GMT, Chris Hornbeck
> wrote:
>
>>Maybe the customer could supply existing commercial
>>speakers that they already like enough to have purchased?
>>Your friend could build beautiful shells for them,
>>that would incidentally improve the sound by strengthening the
>>nasty commercial wooden boxes.
>
>And change the dispersion characteristics at the same time....

You know, I wouldn't mind taking the oak rails off my Magnepans and replacing
them with teak with mother-of-pearl inlay.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Laung Anthique > wrote:
>In article >,
says...
>> I am sorry if I come on too strong but it's not as simple or easy as
>> most hobbyists think until they try it.
>
>That's okay, Kal. I genuinely appreciate your honesty.
>
>> OTOH, some will make it
>> although the vast majority fail. Your first step is to do the
>> readings already suggested and decide on a specific approach. Then
>> build and build another and get lots of outside assessments.
>
>Any directional suggestions? The strength we have is
>excellent wood working capability and truly
>extraordinary finishes (quite out of the ordinary).

Go out, listen to speakers. Find something you like, buy a pair, take them
apart and copy the design.

Or check a place like Madisound or Zalytron, that sells speaker kits. Take
one of their kits and build cabinets for them.

Again, you're in a very crowded market here. There are plenty of speakers
out there with purplewood and ebony veneers and inlays, when you get into
the high end market.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Chris Hornbeck]

On 31 Oct 2003 09:30:21 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> Check out some of the wooden horn designs.

Bingo! We have a winner!

Chris Hornbeck
new email address