How was audio level balance of older movies controlled before tape?

[brassplyer]

Movies like Gone With The Wind, The Wizard Of Oz, all those MGM musicals - they often had fairly involved soundtracks - on-set spoken dialogue and other sounds, big bands and orchestral scores, sound effects. My assumption is when tape arrived you could balance it all in a studio and sync it up with the film to be transferred to the optical soundtrack.

How was the audio mixed and the levels kept balanced before they had tape?

[None]

"Brassplyer" wrote in message
...

> Movies like Gone With The Wind, The Wizard Of Oz, all those MGM musicals -
> they often had fairly involved soundtracks - on-set spoken dialogue and
> other sounds, big bands and orchestral scores, sound effects. My
> assumption is when tape arrived you could balance it all in a studio and
> sync it up with the film to be transferred to the optical soundtrack.

> How was the audio mixed and the levels kept balanced before they had tape?

Movieola.

[Scott Dorsey]

Brassplyer > wrote:
>Movies like Gone With The Wind, The Wizard Of Oz, all those MGM musicals - =
>they often had fairly involved soundtracks - on-set spoken dialogue and oth=
>er sounds, big bands and orchestral scores, sound effects. My assumption is=
> when tape arrived you could balance it all in a studio and sync it up with=
> the film to be transferred to the optical soundtrack.=20
>
>How was the audio mixed and the levels kept balanced before they had tape?=

Optical sound tracks were recorded, then played back into a mixing console
and into a second optical camera. As little as possible of this was done
because the noise and distortion was so high.

Sometimes tricks were done with editing instead... if you watch the scene
in W.C. Field's _Man in the Flying Trapeze_ where he is chasing the tire,
you can see that it was shot MOS with sound effects added, and then the
sound of the tire dropping was edited into the track because the noise floor
changes dramatically before and after the tire drop.

No stems.... a third generation would have been a disaster, so as much as
possible was done with two generations as could be done.

The improvement going to mag in the fifties was staggering. I can't even
imagine trying to work that way.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Brassplyer wrote:

================
> Movies like Gone With The Wind, The Wizard Of Oz, all those MGM musicals - they often had fairly involved soundtracks - on-set spoken dialogue and other sounds, big bands and orchestral scores, sound effects. My assumption is when tape arrived you could balance it all in a studio and sync it up with the film to be transferred to the optical soundtrack.
>
> How was the audio mixed and the levels kept balanced before they had tape?
>

** Perfectly possible to store audio on a freshly cut vinyl disk and play it back with exceptional quality in the 30s and 40s. Leaves tape for dead.

Tape is merely convenient, while optical has no quality at all and requires processing.

For a while, before CD arrived, pressed copies of direct cut 12 inch LPs were the best source of hi-fi sound available to the general public.

Owned a few myself - eg.

https://www.tnt-audio.com/topics/james_e.html



...... Phil

[Les Cargill[_5_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Brassplyer > wrote:
>> Movies like Gone With The Wind, The Wizard Of Oz, all those MGM musicals - =
>> they often had fairly involved soundtracks - on-set spoken dialogue and oth=
>> er sounds, big bands and orchestral scores, sound effects. My assumption is=
>> when tape arrived you could balance it all in a studio and sync it up with=
>> the film to be transferred to the optical soundtrack.=20
>>
>> How was the audio mixed and the levels kept balanced before they had tape?=
>
> Optical sound tracks were recorded, then played back into a mixing console
> and into a second optical camera. As little as possible of this was done
> because the noise and distortion was so high.
>
> Sometimes tricks were done with editing instead... if you watch the scene
> in W.C. Field's _Man in the Flying Trapeze_ where he is chasing the tire,
> you can see that it was shot MOS with sound effects added, and then the
> sound of the tire dropping was edited into the track because the noise floor
> changes dramatically before and after the tire drop.
>
> No stems.... a third generation would have been a disaster, so as much as
> possible was done with two generations as could be done.
>
> The improvement going to mag in the fifties was staggering. I can't even
> imagine trying to work that way.


Thank the Nazis and Bing Crosby.


> --scott
>

--
Les Cargill

[Richard Crowley[_4_]]

Machine rooms of the era had perhaps dozens of rack-mount sound players/recorders that used "full-coat" 35mm film coated with magnetic oxide (just like traditional mag tape). These machines were driven from "house sync" 3-phase AC power which was synchronized to the projector to keep all the source tracks (dialog,, music,, FX, etc.) in sync with the picture.
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_follower

Studios had "mixing theatres" which were set up with a large screen and projector (like conventional exhibition theaters) , many with seats for audience. But they had a large mixing console/desk in the middle of the audience area where the final mix could be executed (and "re-recorded") in "real-time" while watching the picture on the big screen.
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-recording_mixer

I attended a pre-release screening of "Star Wars" (the original Episode 4) in the big mixing theater on the 20th Century Fox lot in Century City. The sound was spectacular from Darryl F. Zanuck's special overstuffed easy-chair in the center of the theater. The sight of a room full of 35mm sound recorders all starting and stopping in sync was pretty impressive also.