Midas M32 USB stick recording glitch

[gareth magennis]

Moved to a new venue with a Midas M32R.
Recorded the show to USB stick.


WAV's have finite size limits, I am used to dealing with more than 1
sequential 4Gb WAV's recorded on my laptop, and stitching them together in
post with no lost data.

The Midas M32R I used this weekend produced multiple 2Gb WAV's to USB stick,
but lost data in the transitions.
Maybe half a second or so each transistion, dunno yet.


Clearly this is not fit for purpose, you can't get that data back.



Anyone have any experience of this?



Cheers,


Gareth.

[geoff]

On 25/01/2018 9:30 AM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> Moved to a new venue with a Midas M32R.
> Recorded the show to USB stick.
>
>
> WAV's have finite size limits, I am used to dealing with more than 1
> sequential 4Gb WAV's recorded on my laptop, and stitching them together in
> post with no lost data.
>
> The Midas M32R I used this weekend produced multiple 2Gb WAV's to USB
> stick,
> but lost data in the transitions.
> Maybe half a second or so each transistion, dunno yet.
>
>
> Clearly this is not fit for purpose, you can't get that data back.


Certainly unsatisfactory. A fault of that particular mixer, or a
'feature' of the model ?!!! Would hope not ...

Out of interest are these single or multi-channel WAVs, at what SR and
bits ?

geoff

[John Williamson]

On 24/01/2018 20:30, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> Moved to a new venue with a Midas M32R.
> Recorded the show to USB stick.
>
>
> WAV's have finite size limits, I am used to dealing with more than 1
> sequential 4Gb WAV's recorded on my laptop, and stitching them together in
> post with no lost data.
>
> The Midas M32R I used this weekend produced multiple 2Gb WAV's to USB
> stick,
> but lost data in the transitions.
> Maybe half a second or so each transistion, dunno yet.
>
>
> Clearly this is not fit for purpose, you can't get that data back.

What is the firmware version of your mixer. The version currently
available for download on the website is 3.08. It may be worth making
sure you have the latest version, or if you do, have a chat with the
maker's tech support.

Maybe I'm missing something, but neither the user manual or the service
manual mention being able to record direct to a USB stick? As I read
them, they assume that the mixer will be networked to a computer.

A 2 GB file size may be a relic of a FAT16 formatted output, and taking
half a second to finalise a file is a sign that the computer is too busy
to do what it's designed to do. It may be stored internally as FAT16,
and then written to a FAT32 or ExFAT USB stick.




--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[geoff]

On 25/01/2018 1:02 PM, John Williamson wrote:
> On 24/01/2018 20:30, Gareth Magennis wrote:
>> Moved to a new venue with a Midas M32R.
>> Recorded the show to USB stick.
>>
>>
>> WAV's have finite size limits, I am used to dealing with more than 1
>> sequential 4Gb WAV's recorded on my laptop, and stitching them
>> together in
>> post with no lost data.
>>
>> The Midas M32R I used this weekend produced multiple 2Gb WAV's to USB
>> stick,
>> but lost data in the transitions.
>> Maybe half a second or so each transistion, dunno yet.
>>
>>
>> Clearly this is not fit for purpose, you can't get that data back.
>
> What is the firmware version of your mixer. The version currently
> available for download on the website is 3.08. It may be worth making
> sure you have the latest version, or if you do, have a chat with the
> maker's tech support.
>
> Maybe I'm missing something, but neither the user manual or the service
> manual mention being able to record direct to a USB stick? As I read
> them, they assume that the mixer will be networked to a computer.
>
> A 2 GB file size may be a relic of a FAT16 formatted output, and taking
> half a second to finalise a file is a sign that the computer is too busy
> to do what it's designed to do. It may be stored internally as FAT16,
> and then written to a FAT32 or ExFAT USB stick.
>

4GB is the absolute limit for a WAV file, and for some reason it is 2GB
on some devices. The 4GB limit is due to the way some info is held in
the file header.

Sony developed a W64 (Wave64) format that got over that limitation.

There seems no suggestion anywhere in the M32 manual that there is a
'roll-over' function to accommodate recordings that need to be over
their 2GB limit.

A bit of an oversight IMO, as is the rather lame output spec of 16/48k !
considered adequate for most purposes I guess.

Alternative is to output to a laptop with software that can record to
W64 (or alternative format), or does have a seamless WAV roll-over
function. Dunno if a Zoom will do that (?)....

Good luck.

geoff

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 1/24/2018 5:40 PM, Geoff wrote:
> There seems no suggestion anywhere in the M32 manual that there is a
> 'roll-over' function to accommodate recordings that need to be over
> their 2GB limit.

The usual way that recording devices deal with this is simply to
continue the recording in a new file. The buffer enough so that no
samples are lost, and you can paste multiple files together seamlessly.
My Korg MR-1000 works like that, as does my Mackie HDR24/96, and even
the program Audacity, though that doesn't make WAV files natively, but
does record and save in small chunks.

Still, 4 GB is a lot of audio at reasonable sample rates. Take a break!


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[geoff]

On 25/01/2018 4:53 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 1/24/2018 5:40 PM, Geoff wrote:
>> There seems no suggestion anywhere in the M32 manual that there is a
>> 'roll-over' function to accommodate recordings that need to be over
>> their 2GB limit.
>
> The usual way that recording devices deal with this is simply to
> continue the recording in a new file. The buffer enough so that no
> samples are lost, and you can paste multiple files together seamlessly.
> My Korg MR-1000 works like that, as does my Mackie HDR24/96, and even
> the program Audacity, though that doesn't make WAV files natively, but
> does record and save in small chunks.
>
> Still, 4 GB is a lot of audio at reasonable sample rates. Take a break!
>
>


But 2GB is just over half an hour at 16/48k/S . But it is late and my
arithmetic might be wrong . And the problem seems to be that the Midas
does *not* do the seemless thing.

geoff

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 5:58:01 AM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
> On 25/01/2018 4:53 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
> > On 1/24/2018 5:40 PM, Geoff wrote:
> >> There seems no suggestion anywhere in the M32 manual that there is a
> >> 'roll-over' function to accommodate recordings that need to be over
> >> their 2GB limit.
> >
> > The usual way that recording devices deal with this is simply to
> > continue the recording in a new file. The buffer enough so that no
> > samples are lost, and you can paste multiple files together seamlessly.
> > My Korg MR-1000 works like that, as does my Mackie HDR24/96, and even
> > the program Audacity, though that doesn't make WAV files natively, but
> > does record and save in small chunks.
> >
> > Still, 4 GB is a lot of audio at reasonable sample rates. Take a break!
> >
> >
>
>
> But 2GB is just over half an hour at 16/48k/S . But it is late and my
> arithmetic might be wrong . And the problem seems to be that the Midas
> does *not* do the seemless thing.
>
> geoff

My recorder running Rockbox has the 4 GB limit also (as they all do) but it also has the option to set the break point to occur at a time limit instead of a GB file size limit. I set it for 1 hour exactly.

Maybe that desk has the option to make the break point at a time limit instead of a GB limit and __maybe__ it will work better that way?

mark

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 1/25/2018 2:57 AM, geoff wrote:
> But 2GB is just over half an hour at 16/48k/S . But it is late and my
> arithmetic might be wrong .

I remember 10.5 MB/minute of stereo at 16-bit 44.1 kHz from DAT days.
Then I revised my rule-of thumb to 1 GB/hour for 24-bit 44.1 kHz.

A stereo 16/48 recording of 3 hours and a couple of minutes will fit in
a 2 GB hole. The on-line calculator (there's one for everything, it
seems) is here:

https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/audio-record



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[polymod]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ...

On 1/25/2018 2:57 AM, geoff wrote:
> But 2GB is just over half an hour at 16/48k/S . But it is late and my
> arithmetic might be wrong .

I remember 10.5 MB/minute of stereo at 16-bit 44.1 kHz from DAT days.
Then I revised my rule-of thumb to 1 GB/hour for 24-bit 44.1 kHz.

A stereo 16/48 recording of 3 hours and a couple of minutes will fit in
a 2 GB hole. The on-line calculator (there's one for everything, it
seems) is here:

https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/audio-record
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Handy little gadget. Thanks.
But the link turns up a "Whooops! It looks like something went wrong."
Get it here:

https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/audio-recording-calculator

Poly

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 24-01-2018 21:30, Gareth Magennis wrote:

> Moved to a new venue with a Midas M32R.
> Recorded the show to USB stick.

> WAV's have finite size limits, I am used to dealing with more than 1
> sequential 4Gb WAV's recorded on my laptop, and stitching them together in
> post with no lost data.

> The Midas M32R I used this weekend produced multiple 2Gb WAV's to USB
> stick, but lost data in the transitions.
> Maybe half a second or so each transistion, dunno yet.

There is a very purist version of the .wav format that cautiously only
allows 2 gigabyte files. It is also very old. Not allowing 4 gigabyte
wave files (less a wee bit for caution) has been "legacy" for all of
this millenium.

> Clearly this is not fit for purpose, you can't get that data back.

Twice incompetent in fact. It is a known pestilence with some video
recorders, all those I own, that they end each segment to card, mostly
also 2 gigabytes, sometimes 4 gigabytes, can't remember which does
which, with an empty data block in the audio file. So a parallel audio
recording is already for that reason unavoidable. Strangely there is no
issue of any kind with getting the video contigous when files are
assembled, so perhaps they just do not even bother trying to solve the
problem.

> Anyone have any experience of this?

The real issue behind the file splitting is the use of FAT32 on the SD
(& similar) cards because it is a minimum cpu overhead filesystem.
Either the recorders need more brains or - perhaps better, as this is
also a latency issue - an entirely new filesystem for cards & similar is
long overdue.

> Gareth.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[geoff]

On 26/01/2018 3:55 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 1/25/2018 2:57 AM, geoff wrote:
>> But 2GB is just over half an hour at 16/48k/S . But it is late and my
>> arithmetic might be wrong .
>
> I remember 10.5 MB/minute of stereo at 16-bit 44.1 kHz from DAT days.
> Then I revised my rule-of thumb to 1 GB/hour for 24-bit 44.1 kHz.
>
> A stereo 16/48 recording of 3 hours and a couple of minutes will fit in
> a 2 GB hole. The on-line calculator (there's one for everything, it
> seems) is here:
>
> *https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/audio-record
>
>
>


Of course. Morning time now, and having slept obvious that about 80
minutes of 44k1/16/s can fit on a CD of around 700MB.

Still doesn't solve the 2GB limit of the M32 if you go over the 3 hours
or so at 48k , if for some reason you'd ever want to. Obviously Gareth
wanted to. Maybe logging conferences, or security recording purposes...

geoff

[gareth magennis]

Oops, not 24/96, 24/44.1, Tascam soundcard.


Gareth.

[Trevor]

On 25/01/2018 10:07 AM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> "Geoff"Â* wrote in message
> ...
> On 25/01/2018 9:30 AM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
>> Moved to a new venue with a Midas M32R.
>> Recorded the show to USB stick.
>>
>>
>> WAV's have finite size limits, I am used to dealing with more than 1
>> sequential 4Gb WAV's recorded on my laptop, and stitching them
>> together in
>> post with no lost data.
>>
>> The Midas M32R I used this weekend produced multiple 2Gb WAV's to USB
>> stick,
>> but lost data in the transitions.
>> Maybe half a second or so each transistion, dunno yet.
>>
>>
>> Clearly this is not fit for purpose, you can't get that data back.
>
>
> Certainly unsatisfactory. A fault of that particular mixer, or a
> 'feature' of the model ?!!! Would hope not ...
>
> Out of interest are these single or multi-channel WAVs, at what SR and
> bits ?
>
> 16 bit, 48K stereo mix out.
> Each file is 2Gb.
>
>
> It looks like the desk cannot buffer the data as it writes (finalises)
> one WAV file, and then starts recording another.


In this day and age I would find that inexcusable from a cheap mixer,
let alone a Midas. Have you contacted them about it?

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 26/01/2018 7:03 AM, Geoff wrote:
> On 26/01/2018 8:54 AM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
>> "geoff"* wrote in message
>> ...
>> On 26/01/2018 3:55 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
>>> On 1/25/2018 2:57 AM, geoff wrote:
>>>> But 2GB is just over half an hour at 16/48k/S . But it is late and
>>>> my arithmetic might be wrong .
>>>
>>> I remember 10.5 MB/minute of stereo at 16-bit 44.1 kHz from DAT days.
>>> Then I revised my rule-of thumb to 1 GB/hour for 24-bit 44.1 kHz.
>>>
>>> A stereo 16/48 recording of 3 hours and a couple of minutes will fit
>>> in a 2 GB hole. The on-line calculator (there's one for everything,
>>> it seems) is here:
>>>
>>> * https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/audio-record
>>
>>
>> Of course. Morning time now, and having slept obvious that about 80
>> minutes of 44k1/16/s can fit on a CD of around 700MB.
>>
>> Still doesn't solve the 2GB limit of the M32 if you go over the 3 hours
>> or so at 48k , if for some reason you'd ever want to. Obviously Gareth
>> wanted to. Maybe logging conferences, or security recording purposes...
>>
>>
>> No, it's an 8 hour club night.
>> Including a one hour live act.
>>
>> Produced 3 x 2Gb files, the first changeover with the lost data
>> occurred during the live act.
>> (Of course!)
>
> Here's a work-around. Have a Zoom or similar recorder recording the
> overlap part(s) and splice it in. Chances are nobody will notice if you
> do it cleverly ;-)


Surely easier to just start a new recording during a break every couple
of hours? Even easier if there is only one 1hour live act you really
have to worry about. You have 1 hour leeway for both start and finish!

Trevor.

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Geoff wrote:
> On 25/01/2018 1:02 PM, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 24/01/2018 20:30, Gareth Magennis wrote:
>>> Moved to a new venue with a Midas M32R. Recorded the show to USB
>>> stick.
>>>
>>>
>>> WAV's have finite size limits, I am used to dealing with more
>>> than 1 sequential 4Gb WAV's recorded on my laptop, and stitching
>>> them together in post with no lost data.
>>>
>>> The Midas M32R I used this weekend produced multiple 2Gb WAV's to
>>> USB stick, but lost data in the transitions. Maybe half a second
>>> or so each transistion, dunno yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> Clearly this is not fit for purpose, you can't get that data
>>> back.
>>
>> What is the firmware version of your mixer. The version currently
>> available for download on the website is 3.08. It may be worth
>> making sure you have the latest version, or if you do, have a chat
>> with the maker's tech support.
>>
>> Maybe I'm missing something, but neither the user manual or the
>> service manual mention being able to record direct to a USB stick?
>> As I read them, they assume that the mixer will be networked to a
>> computer.
>>
>> A 2 GB file size may be a relic of a FAT16 formatted output, and
>> taking half a second to finalise a file is a sign that the computer
>> is too busy to do what it's designed to do. It may be stored
>> internally as FAT16, and then written to a FAT32 or ExFAT USB
>> stick.
>>
>
> 4GB is the absolute limit for a WAV file, and for some reason it is
> 2GB on some devices.

The reason is a combination of FAT32 and the quantity 0x7FFFFFFF.

> The 4GB limit is due to the way some info is
> held in the file header.
>
> Sony developed a W64 (Wave64) format that got over that limitation.
>
> There seems no suggestion anywhere in the M32 manual that there is a
> 'roll-over' function to accommodate recordings that need to be over
> their 2GB limit.
>
> A bit of an oversight IMO, as is the rather lame output spec of
> 16/48k ! considered adequate for most purposes I guess.
>
> Alternative is to output to a laptop with software that can record to
> W64 (or alternative format), or does have a seamless WAV roll-over
> function. Dunno if a Zoom will do that (?)....
>

It'd be interesting to give this a roll:

https://www.amazon.com/HiFiBerry-DIGI-Raspberry-SPDIF-Shield/dp/B0776C9399


> Good luck.
>
> geoff

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

geoff wrote:
> On 25/01/2018 4:53 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
>> On 1/24/2018 5:40 PM, Geoff wrote:
>>> There seems no suggestion anywhere in the M32 manual that there is a
>>> 'roll-over' function to accommodate recordings that need to be over
>>> their 2GB limit.
>>
>> The usual way that recording devices deal with this is simply to
>> continue the recording in a new file. The buffer enough so that no
>> samples are lost, and you can paste multiple files together
>> seamlessly. My Korg MR-1000 works like that, as does my Mackie
>> HDR24/96, and even the program Audacity, though that doesn't make WAV
>> files natively, but does record and save in small chunks.
>>
>> Still, 4 GB is a lot of audio at reasonable sample rates. Take a break!
>>
>>
>
>
> But 2GB is just over half an hour at 16/48k/S .


So I got 2*(10^9)/(96000) = 20833.33333 seconds, or 5.78 hours.

> But it is late and my > arithmetic might be wrong .* And the problem seems to be that the Midas
> does *not* do the seemless thing.
>
> geoff

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Peter Larsen wrote:
> On 24-01-2018 21:30, Gareth Magennis wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> The real issue behind the file splitting is the use of FAT32 on the SD
> (& similar) cards because it is a minimum cpu overhead filesystem.
> Either the recorders need more brains or - perhaps better, as this is
> also a latency issue - an entirely new filesystem for cards & similar is
> long overdue.
>

So I put up a link for a TOSLINK shield for a RasPi - with that and the
stuff you need to do to add a SATA harddisk to a Pi, you'd get the
ability to use ext4 filesystem, which should be close to bulletproof and
provide file length to the limit of the hard drive.

The only hard part should be "how to turn it off?"

i don't see this packaged and productized anywhere - it'd be DIY.

>> Gareth.
>
> ** Kind regards
>
> ** Peter Larsen
>

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Gareth Magennis wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> The real issue behind the file splitting is the use of FAT32 on the SD
> (& similar) cards because it is a minimum cpu overhead filesystem.

Ah, but were it only that. Embedded engineers tend to not know any
better and most dev kits form with FAT32 for freebies....


> Either the recorders need more brains or - perhaps better, as this is
> also a latency issue - an entirely new filesystem for cards & similar is
> long overdue.
>


This. Unless they used like a PIC32 or something equally
poorly chosen.

> Cheers,
>
>
> Gareth.

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Gareth Magennis wrote:
> UnfortunatelyÂ* I was not able to test the recording of an 8 hour show
> prior to recording an 8 hour show at a venue and desk I had never been to.
>
>
> Gareth.

Gosh, I cross-threaded that post. My apologies, sir.

*You* shouldn't have to. *They* should have.

I write firmware for a living. The things I've seen, Gareth...

--
Les Cargill

[Fred McKenzie]

In article >,
"Gareth Magennis" > wrote:

> Moved to a new venue with a Midas M32R.
> Recorded the show to USB stick.
>
>
> WAV's have finite size limits, I am used to dealing with more than 1
> sequential 4Gb WAV's recorded on my laptop, and stitching them together in
> post with no lost data.
>
> The Midas M32R I used this weekend produced multiple 2Gb WAV's to USB stick,
> but lost data in the transitions.
> Maybe half a second or so each transistion, dunno yet.
>
>
> Clearly this is not fit for purpose, you can't get that data back.
>
>
>
> Anyone have any experience of this?

Gareth-

You can get around the 2GB limit by using ExFAT format on your USB
stick. But that does not change the 2GB format used by your recording
process.

My Zoom H4n audio recorder automatically starts a new track when the
limit is reached. I have not had any problem splicing these tracks
together using Audacity.

Someone suggested that your problem is related to your laptop's handling
of the transition. If you can get your laptop to NOT chop the recording
into segments, then using ExFAT format may eliminate the problem.

Fred

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 28-01-2018 19:23, Fred McKenzie wrote:

> In article >,
> "Gareth Magennis" > wrote:

>> Moved to a new venue with a Midas M32R.
>> Recorded the show to USB stick.

> Someone suggested that your problem is related to your laptop's handling
> of the transition. If you can get your laptop to NOT chop the recording
> into segments, then using ExFAT format may eliminate the problem.

He used a professional audio mixer with save to usb option and he used
it for the sensible "no operator overhead because the operator is doing
live sound" method of just logging the entire evening. Considering how
fast it is to clip unwanted parts out of a file afterwards that is the
proper way to do it.

As for that it should have been tested by the manufacturer, yes, then
there had not been an issue. Also the manufacturer could have used the
proper version of the .wav format. And they could have put linux in the
desk so that it could have written a file system that allowed the use of
broadcast wave files.

As for the operator who found out: this is a reminder to all of us to
verify via a full scale test whenever it is important. Sometimes doing
that highlights something that should have worked, but does not in the
real world. This obvious is one of those times.

Has the OP gotten any comments from the manufacturer on the complaint
letter assumed sent? - even just getting to the proper audio fileformat
version that allows 4 gigabyte files would help and that could be a
simple field patch of the desk. (always do such patching with the desk
on a UPS! and with ample time before next show, don't just do it in the
intermission at far fields festival on the end of a 2 mile 2 X 0.75
square millimeter extension cable!)


> Fred

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Nicola B. Bernardelli]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 14:40:31 +1300, Geoff wrote:

> [...] A bit of an oversight IMO, as is the rather lame output spec of
16/48k !
> considered adequate for most purposes I guess.
>
> Alternative is to output to a laptop with software that can record to
> W64 (or alternative format), or does have a seamless WAV roll-over
> function. Dunno if a Zoom will do that (?)....
>
> Good luck.
>
> geoff



On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 09:03:12 +1300, Geoff wrote:
> [...] Here's a work-around. Have a Zoom or similar recorder recording
the
> overlap part(s) and splice it in. Chances are nobody will notice if you
> do it cleverly ;-)
>
> geoff


On the cheap side, you could actually use the analogue line input of a
Zoom H2n, quality is amazing for the price (I think it even computes in
floating point internally), and it does a correct job splitting wav
files, at least on a class 10 (32 GB) SDcard. You have a knob for rec
level and a detailed scale so you can stay safe from clipping without
activating any limiter option.

I'm sure that you could use its 4 channels setup and you still get 24 bit
at 48 kHz instead of the 16 bit you get from the MIDAS mixer, _and_ you
also have a through-the-air overall take from where you are, including
the audience clapping etc.. The line input in that case replaces the XY
mics of the H2n, the MID-SIDE ones are the ones who stay active, not an
option...

.... well I have firmware 2.0 (the latest is 3.0 I think, I haven't
flashed it in because I'm not needing the few new features, but I might
give it a try out of curiosity some day and see if some of the features I
_do_ use have been improved).

Up to this 2.0 firmware, when in 4 channels, the MID-SIDE track gets pre-
decoded to stereo, you can only adjust the SIDE volume (down to zero,
mono).

When recording to 2 channels, you have up to 96 kHz 24 bit and you can
chose to record XY or MID-SIDE and when in MID-SIDE you can still adjust
SIDE vol _or_ chose to record RAW MID-SIDE, and decode to stereo "on the
fly" in post production in your DAW, which of course is more flexible,
with a plug-in (the one I use also offers vols and pans adjustment), or
doing your own "math" between the MID and SIDE tracks.


(((((

This little thing also offers limiters/compressions options which I tend
not to use ("compressor" means actually compressor-expander as the H2n
docs point out, not so "limiter" of course... other brands use
"compressor" for lower ratio limiting than "limiter", e.g. in the ART
TUBE MP/C "compressor" is 2.3:1 vs 6:1 "limiter" (according to specs on
the manual, 11:1 according to specs on their website)), no expansion,
which I largely prefer over compression/expansion (some multi-effect
guitar-oriented gear also only model compressors which are actually also
"sustainers").

)))))

Disclaimer: I have no contact whatsoever with Zoom LOL :d just sharing
something which might serve for your purpose.

Oh I forgot to mention, I have it running on rechargeable batteries (you
have to tell the firmware through a menu item), but battery consumption
is incredibly low.

[geoff]

On 10/04/2018 5:23 AM, Nicola B. Bernardelli wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 14:40:31 +1300, Geoff wrote:
>
>> [...] A bit of an oversight IMO, as is the rather lame output spec of
> 16/48k !
>> considered adequate for most purposes I guess.
>>
>> Alternative is to output to a laptop with software that can record to
>> W64 (or alternative format), or does have a seamless WAV roll-over
>> function. Dunno if a Zoom will do that (?)....
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> geoff
>
>
>
> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 09:03:12 +1300, Geoff wrote:
>> [...] Here's a work-around. Have a Zoom or similar recorder recording
> the
>> overlap part(s) and splice it in. Chances are nobody will notice if you
>> do it cleverly ;-)
>>
>> geoff
>
>
> On the cheap side, you could actually use the analogue line input of a
> Zoom H2n, quality is amazing for the price (I think it even computes in
> floating point internally), and it does a correct job splitting wav
> files, at least on a class 10 (32 GB) SDcard. You have a knob for rec
> level and a detailed scale so you can stay safe from clipping without
> activating any limiter option.
>
> I'm sure that you could use its 4 channels setup and you still get 24 bit
> at 48 kHz instead of the 16 bit you get from the MIDAS mixer, _and_ you
> also have a through-the-air overall take from where you are, including
> the audience clapping etc.. The line input in that case replaces the XY
> mics of the H2n, the MID-SIDE ones are the ones who stay active, not an
> option...
>
> ... well I have firmware 2.0 (the latest is 3.0 I think, I haven't
> flashed it in because I'm not needing the few new features, but I might
> give it a try out of curiosity some day and see if some of the features I
> _do_ use have been improved).
>
> Up to this 2.0 firmware, when in 4 channels, the MID-SIDE track gets pre-
> decoded to stereo, you can only adjust the SIDE volume (down to zero,
> mono).
>
> When recording to 2 channels, you have up to 96 kHz 24 bit and you can
> chose to record XY or MID-SIDE and when in MID-SIDE you can still adjust
> SIDE vol _or_ chose to record RAW MID-SIDE, and decode to stereo "on the
> fly" in post production in your DAW, which of course is more flexible,
> with a plug-in (the one I use also offers vols and pans adjustment), or
> doing your own "math" between the MID and SIDE tracks.
>
>
> (((((
>
> This little thing also offers limiters/compressions options which I tend
> not to use ("compressor" means actually compressor-expander as the H2n
> docs point out, not so "limiter" of course... other brands use
> "compressor" for lower ratio limiting than "limiter", e.g. in the ART
> TUBE MP/C "compressor" is 2.3:1 vs 6:1 "limiter" (according to specs on
> the manual, 11:1 according to specs on their website)), no expansion,
> which I largely prefer over compression/expansion (some multi-effect
> guitar-oriented gear also only model compressors which are actually also
> "sustainers").
>
> )))))
>
> Disclaimer: I have no contact whatsoever with Zoom LOL :d just sharing
> something which might serve for your purpose.
>
> Oh I forgot to mention, I have it running on rechargeable batteries (you
> have to tell the firmware through a menu item), but battery consumption
> is incredibly low.
>


Must update mine...

geoff

[Nicola B. Bernardelli]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 11:35:26 +1200, geoff wrote:
>
> Must update mine...
>
> geoff

:D

I'm not very fond of updating something which works fine, even less when
that implies flashing a new firmware into a device... "If it isn't
broken, don't fix it"... _but_ I trust Zoom enough to expect there won't
be any bad surprises, so I'll do it, maybe one of these days.

[Nicola B. Bernardelli]

Checked, Zoom H2n in stereo XY mode, line input replaces internal mics
(not in Mid-Side), works up to 96 kHz 24 bit, firmware 2.0 _and_ 3.0
(updated today).