Car Audio

[Gary Eickmeier]

Just got a little subwoofer for the new car (Prius V) that is worth telling
about. It is the Powerbass BTA8, an 8 inch woofer in a nice carpeted
enclosure with amp and connections.

http://www.amazon.com/Powerbass-BTA8-Single-8-Inch-Enclosure/dp/B0081OQRAO/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1465097524&sr=1-7&keywords=powered+subwoofer+8+inch

The concept is a new car with upgrade JBL speaker system, but is anemic in
the bass. Sometimes they (carsound junkies) rip out the old and put in a
whole new system, but I knew I didn't need that, because with the addition
of a reasonable sub I should be able to fill in the bottom end nicely
without the need to shake the shingles off the houses as I drive by. And I
was right. The sound is 100% improved - I can hear the bass frequencies and
the imaging is the same, seeming to come from up front with the new hoeft
and solidity that I was looking for. The thing has adjustments for gain,
crossover point, and low freq EQ, which means how much boost at 40 Hz. The
crossover can be set anywhere from 40 to 250, and the unit is supposed to go
down to 35 Hz. I have set it to around 200 so that it might fill in more of
the freqs that rattle my JBL speakers, which I had boosted with the 3 band
equalizer on the head unit. I was right on this too, because now it can play
the Delos bass decade track with no rattling and get down to about 40 OK.

Anyway, nice little boost to the quality of the entire system by just
enhancing the bottom end. Best car system I have had now for about 23 years.

Gary Eickmeier

[geoff]

On 5/06/2016 3:51 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
> Just got a little subwoofer for the new car (Prius V) that is worth
> telling about. It is the Powerbass BTA8, an 8 inch woofer in a nice
> carpeted enclosure with amp and connections.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Powerbass-BTA8-Single-8-Inch-Enclosure/dp/B0081OQRAO/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1465097524&sr=1-7&keywords=powered+subwoofer+8+inch
>
> The concept is a new car with upgrade JBL speaker system, but is
> anemic in the bass.

I can vouch for that approach being a vast improvement in car audio
sound quality, and for one's aural health.

With regular, even high quality, car speakers, there is usually just
totally inadequate bass output. And in order to hear some bass the
listening level is ofetn cranked higher than is good for you.

Even a small sub can fill things out nand/or distortion from amp or drivers.

This is the one I got, which is active, very low profile, and can run
either from speaker lines or from a dedicated car-stereo amp sub output.

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/Sight-%26-Sound-Car/Car-Speakers/Subwoofers/Under-Seat-Active-8-Subwoofer/p/CS2286


geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

Gary Eickmeier > wrote:
> Just got a little subwoofer for the new car (Prius V) that is worth telling
>about. It is the Powerbass BTA8, an 8 inch woofer in a nice carpeted
>enclosure with amp and connections.

PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically for
that.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Gary Eickmeier]

"geoff" > wrote in message
...
> On 5/06/2016 3:51 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
>> Just got a little subwoofer for the new car (Prius V) that is worth
>> telling about. It is the Powerbass BTA8, an 8 inch woofer in a nice
>> carpeted enclosure with amp and connections.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Powerbass-BTA8-Single-8-Inch-Enclosure/dp/B0081OQRAO/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1465097524&sr=1-7&keywords=powered+subwoofer+8+inch
>>
>> The concept is a new car with upgrade JBL speaker system, but is
>> anemic in the bass.
>
> I can vouch for that approach being a vast improvement in car audio sound
> quality, and for one's aural health.
>
> With regular, even high quality, car speakers, there is usually just
> totally inadequate bass output. And in order to hear some bass the
> listening level is ofetn cranked higher than is good for you.
>
> Even a small sub can fill things out nand/or distortion from amp or
> drivers.
>
> This is the one I got, which is active, very low profile, and can run
> either from speaker lines or from a dedicated car-stereo amp sub output.
>
> http://www.jaycar.co.nz/Sight-%26-Sound-Car/Car-Speakers/Subwoofers/Under-Seat-Active-8-Subwoofer/p/CS2286
>
>
> geoff

YES I saw that one a little too late and wondered if it was any good. But
like you say, it doesn't take much, just fill in the blanks at the bottom
and it seems to upgrade the entire system and not sound like a table radio
any more.

Gary

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Gary Eickmeier > wrote:
>> Just got a little subwoofer for the new car (Prius V) that is worth
>> telling
>>about. It is the Powerbass BTA8, an 8 inch woofer in a nice carpeted
>>enclosure with amp and connections.
>
> PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically for
> that.
> --scott

Good idea! Didn't know about them specifically...

Gary

[Nil[_2_]]

On 05 Jun 2016, geoff > wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> Even a small sub can fill things out nand/or distortion from amp
> or drivers.
>
> This is the one I got, which is active, very low profile, and can
> run either from speaker lines or from a dedicated car-stereo amp
> sub output.
>
> http://www.jaycar.co.nz/Sight-%26-Sound-Car/Car-Speakers/Subwoofers/Under-Seat-Active-8-Subwoofer/p/CS2286

Something like this might work for me - I don't think I have any
place to put a sub like Gary has in my Mercury Grand Marquis. I
could definitely use more bass.

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 4:37:22 PM UTC-4, Nil wrote:
> On 05 Jun 2016, geoff <offwood.org> wrote in
> rec.audio.pro:
>
> > Even a small sub can fill things out nand/or distortion from amp
> > or drivers.
> >
> > This is the one I got, which is active, very low profile, and can
> > run either from speaker lines or from a dedicated car-stereo amp
> > sub output.
> >
> > http://www.jaycar.co.nz/Sight-%26-Sound-Car/Car-Speakers/Subwoofers/Under-Seat-Active-8-Subwoofer/p/CS2286
>
> Something like this might work for me - I don't think I have any
> place to put a sub like Gary has in my Mercury Grand Marquis. I
> could definitely use more bass.

________________

????

A Grand Marquis has its own ZIP CODE
compared to a dinky Prius! You could
own up to a 2-mile radius with what
should fit in that full-sized trunk.

[Nil[_2_]]

On 05 Jun 2016, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> A Grand Marquis has its own ZIP CODE
> compared to a dinky Prius! You could
> own up to a 2-mile radius with what
> should fit in that full-sized trunk.

Not being into car audio, seems to me that the purpose of those
gigantic megawatt subs in the trunk is to make everything within a city
block shake like there's an earthquake going on, not to provide a
pleasant, balanced listening experience. Not my style. Besides, I use
the trunk for its actual intended purpose, not to be taken up with a
huge plywood box.

A smaller sub in the passenger compartment should give me what I need,
I think.

[geoff]

On 6/06/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Gary Eickmeier > wrote:
>> Just got a little subwoofer for the new car (Prius V) that is worth telling
>> about. It is the Powerbass BTA8, an 8 inch woofer in a nice carpeted
>> enclosure with amp and connections.
>
> PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically for
> that.
> --scott
>


Narrowmindedness unworthy of you Scot - information that many in our
field just might find very useful. Else we might all end up with a 3kHz
notch. Far more relevant that much of the discussion here of late.

geoff

[JackA]

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 8:45:22 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> On 6/06/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > Gary Eickmeier > wrote:
> >> Just got a little subwoofer for the new car (Prius V) that is worth telling
> >> about. It is the Powerbass BTA8, an 8 inch woofer in a nice carpeted
> >> enclosure with amp and connections.
> >
> > PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically for
> > that.
> > --scott
> >
>
>
> Narrowmindedness unworthy of you Scot - information that many in our
> field just might find very useful. Else we might all end up with a 3kHz
> notch. Far more relevant that much of the discussion here of late.

You, sir, are one jealous SOB.

But, I agree with you, this topic is ON TOPIC for this, ahem, group.

Jack :-)
>
> geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff > wrote:
>On 6/06/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> Gary Eickmeier > wrote:
>>> Just got a little subwoofer for the new car (Prius V) that is worth telling
>>> about. It is the Powerbass BTA8, an 8 inch woofer in a nice carpeted
>>> enclosure with amp and connections.
>>
>> PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically for
>> that.
>
>Narrowmindedness unworthy of you Scot - information that many in our
>field just might find very useful. Else we might all end up with a 3kHz
>notch. Far more relevant that much of the discussion here of late.

Geoff, check out the previous car audio threads here, all of which have
devolved into fighting and general abuse. Mind you that is before we
became the Land of the Trolls, and I agree that it's more relevant than
a lot of the mindless trolling here, but that's a low bar indeed.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ron C[_2_]]

On 6/5/2016 10:31 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> geoff > wrote:
>> On 6/06/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> Gary Eickmeier > wrote:
>>>> Just got a little subwoofer for the new car (Prius V) that is worth telling
>>>> about. It is the Powerbass BTA8, an 8 inch woofer in a nice carpeted
>>>> enclosure with amp and connections.
>>>
>>> PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically for
>>> that.
>>
>> Narrowmindedness unworthy of you Scot - information that many in our
>> field just might find very useful. Else we might all end up with a 3kHz
>> notch. Far more relevant that much of the discussion here of late.
>
> Geoff, check out the previous car audio threads here, all of which have
> devolved into fighting and general abuse. Mind you that is before we
> became the Land of the Trolls, and I agree that it's more relevant than
> a lot of the mindless trolling here, but that's a low bar indeed.
> --scott
>
Thus the classic:
"Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them."
....and repeat them ...and repeat them ...and..
==
Later...
Ron Capik
--

[John Williamson]

On 06/06/2016 01:58, JackA wrote:
> On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 8:45:22 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>> On 6/06/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically for
>>> that.
>>> --scott
>>>
>>
>>
>> Narrowmindedness unworthy of you Scot - information that many in our
>> field just might find very useful. Else we might all end up with a 3kHz
>> notch. Far more relevant that much of the discussion here of late.
>
> You, sir, are one jealous SOB.
>
> But, I agree with you, this topic is ON TOPIC for this, ahem, group.
>
Tell me the relevance of a subwoofer in a car to the production of audio?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[geoff]

On 6/06/2016 10:28 PM, John Williamson wrote:
> On 06/06/2016 01:58, JackA wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 8:45:22 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>>> On 6/06/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>> PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically
>>>> for
>>>> that.
>>>> --scott
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Narrowmindedness unworthy of you Scot - information that many in our
>>> field just might find very useful. Else we might all end up with a 3kHz
>>> notch. Far more relevant that much of the discussion here of late.
>>
>> You, sir, are one jealous SOB.
>>
>> But, I agree with you, this topic is ON TOPIC for this, ahem, group.
>>
> Tell me the relevance of a subwoofer in a car to the production of audio?
>

Obviously you missed something. A general tip for those who listen to
music in cars to a:increase the enjoyment and more importently
b:protect their hearing by enabling the perception of bass without the
alternative often ear-shredding byproducts.

geoff

[[email protected]]

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 6:54:43 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> On 6/06/2016 10:28 PM, John Williamson wrote:
> > On 06/06/2016 01:58, JackA wrote:
> >> On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 8:45:22 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> >>> On 6/06/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >>>> PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically
> >>>> for
> >>>> that.
> >>>> --scott
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Narrowmindedness unworthy of you Scot - information that many in our
> >>> field just might find very useful. Else we might all end up with a 3kHz
> >>> notch. Far more relevant that much of the discussion here of late.
> >>
> >> You, sir, are one jealous SOB.
> >>
> >> But, I agree with you, this topic is ON TOPIC for this, ahem, group.
> >>
> > Tell me the relevance of a subwoofer in a car to the production of audio?
> >
>
> Obviously you missed something. A general tip for those who listen to
> music in cars to a:increase the enjoyment and more importently
> b:protect their hearing by enabling the perception of bass without the
> alternative often ear-shredding byproducts.
>
> geoff
_________

A humorous analogy to the rolling earthquakes
some vehicles have become due to the gear
packed in them...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUDVMiITOU


Not something I advocate at all. Or this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSUc4Hsec0w


Ave maria...

!

[JackA]

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 6:28:35 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> On 06/06/2016 01:58, JackA wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 8:45:22 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> >> On 6/06/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >>> PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically for
> >>> that.
> >>> --scott
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Narrowmindedness unworthy of you Scot - information that many in our
> >> field just might find very useful. Else we might all end up with a 3kHz
> >> notch. Far more relevant that much of the discussion here of late.
> >
> > You, sir, are one jealous SOB.
> >
> > But, I agree with you, this topic is ON TOPIC for this, ahem, group.
> >
> Tell me the relevance of a subwoofer in a car to the production of audio?

Actually, people have used car stereo speakers to mix music, believe it or not!!

Jack

>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

[polymod]

"JackA" wrote in message
...

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 6:28:35 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> On 06/06/2016 01:58, JackA wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 8:45:22 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> >> On 6/06/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >>> PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically
> >>> for
> >>> that.
> >>> --scott
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Narrowmindedness unworthy of you Scot - information that many in our
> >> field just might find very useful. Else we might all end up with a 3kHz
> >> notch. Far more relevant that much of the discussion here of late.
> >
> > You, sir, are one jealous SOB.
> >
> > But, I agree with you, this topic is ON TOPIC for this, ahem, group.
> >
> Tell me the relevance of a subwoofer in a car to the production of audio?

Actually, people have used car stereo speakers to mix music, believe it or
not!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I believe it.
I use an old pair of Minimus 7's for an option for checking my mixes.
I still wish I had my old '74 Dodge van to go with it. But that's another
story.

Poly

[JackA]

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 10:51:20 AM UTC-4, polymod wrote:
> "JackA" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 6:28:35 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> > On 06/06/2016 01:58, JackA wrote:
> > > On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 8:45:22 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> > >> On 6/06/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > >>> PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically
> > >>> for
> > >>> that.
> > >>> --scott
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Narrowmindedness unworthy of you Scot - information that many in our
> > >> field just might find very useful. Else we might all end up with a 3kHz
> > >> notch. Far more relevant that much of the discussion here of late.
> > >
> > > You, sir, are one jealous SOB.
> > >
> > > But, I agree with you, this topic is ON TOPIC for this, ahem, group.
> > >
> > Tell me the relevance of a subwoofer in a car to the production of audio?
>
> Actually, people have used car stereo speakers to mix music, believe it or
> not!!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I believe it.
> I use an old pair of Minimus 7's for an option for checking my mixes.
> I still wish I had my old '74 Dodge van to go with it. But that's another
> story.

I know what you mean!!!

Anyway, the hit song that was car speaker mixed...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_otNCZ5T2o

Jack
>
> Poly

[Tobiah]

> Geoff, check out the previous car audio threads here, all of which have
> devolved into fighting and general abuse.

Why did you find it necessary to qualify this to car audio threads? :o

[geoff]

On 7/06/2016 12:34 AM, JackA wrote:
> On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 6:28:35 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 06/06/2016 01:58, JackA wrote:
>>> On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 8:45:22 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>>>> On 6/06/2016 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>> PLEASE take these discussions to rec.audio.car which is specifically for
>>>>> that.
>>>>> --scott
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Narrowmindedness unworthy of you Scot - information that many in our
>>>> field just might find very useful. Else we might all end up with a 3kHz
>>>> notch. Far more relevant that much of the discussion here of late.
>>>
>>> You, sir, are one jealous SOB.
>>>
>>> But, I agree with you, this topic is ON TOPIC for this, ahem, group.
>>>
>> Tell me the relevance of a subwoofer in a car to the production of audio?
>
> Actually, people have used car stereo speakers to mix music, believe it or not!!


I regularly check mixes and masters on car audio, as well as in 3 or 4
other environments.

But I was initially referring to casual listening.

geoff

[Frank Stearns]

"polymod" > writes:

snips

>Actually, people have used car stereo speakers to mix music, believe it or
>not!!

Back in the old days, some studios had low-power FM or AM transmitters to send mixes
into your nearby car radio as a check. Or, you ran off a cassette (later a CD) and
took it out to the car for a listen. (Back in the DAT days, a mixer friend of mine
had a DAT deck in his car for mix checks.)

Moving into the 21st Century, the Lurssen mastering product offers a method of using
their i-pad controller for their mastering app. Sit in the car and tweak the master,
real time. No need to take notes, go back to the studio, and do the whole thing
all over again. Just tweak it right then and there.

In some hands, this could create a first-class mess. In other hands, this could be a
convenient tool.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Trevor]

On 7/06/2016 8:37 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:
> "polymod" > writes:
>> Actually, people have used car stereo speakers to mix music, believe it or
>> not!!
>
> Back in the old days, some studios had low-power FM or AM transmitters to send mixes
> into your nearby car radio as a check. Or, you ran off a cassette (later a CD) and
> took it out to the car for a listen. (Back in the DAT days, a mixer friend of mine
> had a DAT deck in his car for mix checks.)
>
> Moving into the 21st Century, the Lurssen mastering product offers a method of using
> their i-pad controller for their mastering app. Sit in the car and tweak the master,
> real time. No need to take notes, go back to the studio, and do the whole thing
> all over again. Just tweak it right then and there.
>

The whole idea of actually mastering in a car, rather than just a quick
check after mastering in a proper sound room, shows the depths to which
audio continues to sink IMO :-(


> In some hands, this could create a first-class mess. In other hands,
> this could be a convenient tool.

The former being far more likely unfortunately.

Trevor.

[John Williamson]

On 07/06/2016 11:21, Trevor wrote:
> On 7/06/2016 8:37 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:
>> "polymod" > writes:
>>> Actually, people have used car stereo speakers to mix music, believe
>>> it or
>>> not!!
>>
>> Back in the old days, some studios had low-power FM or AM transmitters
>> to send mixes
>> into your nearby car radio as a check. Or, you ran off a cassette
>> (later a CD) and
>> took it out to the car for a listen. (Back in the DAT days, a mixer
>> friend of mine
>> had a DAT deck in his car for mix checks.)
>>
>> Moving into the 21st Century, the Lurssen mastering product offers a
>> method of using
>> their i-pad controller for their mastering app. Sit in the car and
>> tweak the master,
>> real time. No need to take notes, go back to the studio, and do the
>> whole thing
>> all over again. Just tweak it right then and there.
>>
>
> The whole idea of actually mastering in a car, rather than just a quick
> check after mastering in a proper sound room, shows the depths to which
> audio continues to sink IMO :-(
>
There is and always has been a case for checking the result of a mixing
session in a car using a standard audio system, as well as using a mono
grotbox and earbuds on an iPhone or iPod (Or even a decent mp3
player.)to check how well it survives the transition, but *only* as a
check once the mix has been done on a decent system.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Trevor]

On 7/06/2016 8:52 PM, John Williamson wrote:
> On 07/06/2016 11:21, Trevor wrote:
>> On 7/06/2016 8:37 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:
>>> "polymod" > writes:
>>>> Actually, people have used car stereo speakers to mix music, believe
>>>> it or
>>>> not!!
>>>
>>> Back in the old days, some studios had low-power FM or AM transmitters
>>> to send mixes
>>> into your nearby car radio as a check. Or, you ran off a cassette
>>> (later a CD) and
>>> took it out to the car for a listen. (Back in the DAT days, a mixer
>>> friend of mine
>>> had a DAT deck in his car for mix checks.)
>>>
>>> Moving into the 21st Century, the Lurssen mastering product offers a
>>> method of using
>>> their i-pad controller for their mastering app. Sit in the car and
>>> tweak the master,
>>> real time. No need to take notes, go back to the studio, and do the
>>> whole thing
>>> all over again. Just tweak it right then and there.
>>>
>>
>> The whole idea of actually mastering in a car, rather than just a quick
>> check after mastering in a proper sound room, shows the depths to which
>> audio continues to sink IMO :-(
>>
> There is and always has been a case for checking the result of a mixing
> session in a car using a standard audio system, as well as using a mono
> grotbox and earbuds on an iPhone or iPod (Or even a decent mp3
> player.)to check how well it survives the transition,

Of course. We've been doing that for half a century without an ipad
controller in the car.


>but *only* as a check once the mix has been done on a decent system.

Exactly. But no need to remix from the car! That will more likely just
stuff it up on a decent system.

Trevor.

[david gourley[_2_]]

Trevor > :

> On 7/06/2016 8:52 PM, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 07/06/2016 11:21, Trevor wrote:
>>> On 7/06/2016 8:37 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:
>>>> "polymod" > writes:
>>>>> Actually, people have used car stereo speakers to mix music, believe
>>>>> it or
>>>>> not!!
>>>>
>>>> Back in the old days, some studios had low-power FM or AM transmitters
>>>> to send mixes
>>>> into your nearby car radio as a check. Or, you ran off a cassette
>>>> (later a CD) and
>>>> took it out to the car for a listen. (Back in the DAT days, a mixer
>>>> friend of mine
>>>> had a DAT deck in his car for mix checks.)
>>>>
>>>> Moving into the 21st Century, the Lurssen mastering product offers a
>>>> method of using
>>>> their i-pad controller for their mastering app. Sit in the car and
>>>> tweak the master,
>>>> real time. No need to take notes, go back to the studio, and do the
>>>> whole thing
>>>> all over again. Just tweak it right then and there.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The whole idea of actually mastering in a car, rather than just a quick
>>> check after mastering in a proper sound room, shows the depths to which
>>> audio continues to sink IMO :-(
>>>
>> There is and always has been a case for checking the result of a mixing
>> session in a car using a standard audio system, as well as using a mono
>> grotbox and earbuds on an iPhone or iPod (Or even a decent mp3
>> player.)to check how well it survives the transition,
>
> Of course. We've been doing that for half a century without an ipad
> controller in the car.
>
>
>>but *only* as a check once the mix has been done on a decent system.
>
> Exactly. But no need to remix from the car! That will more likely just
> stuff it up on a decent system.
>
> Trevor.
>

Not with the stock system in my Ford Ranger. If a mix sounds good in my
truck, it will sound great everywhere else. Go figure.

david

[John Williamson]

On 07/06/2016 15:44, david gourley wrote:
> Trevor > :
>
>> Exactly. But no need to remix from the car! That will more likely just
>> stuff it up on a decent system.
>
> Not with the stock system in my Ford Ranger. If a mix sounds good in my
> truck, it will sound great everywhere else. Go figure.
>
You've got a *really* horrible sound system? ;-)


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[[email protected]]

Trevor wrote:
"Exactly. But no need to remix from the car! That will more likely just
stuff it up on a decent system.

Trevor. "


Agreed 101%. But who, nowadays, listens on a
"decent" system? The migration to tiny and portable
is partly to blame for why so much of recorded
music is mastered the way it has been for the last
15 years or so.

[John Williamson]

On 07/06/2016 16:36, wrote:
> Trevor wrote:
> "Exactly. But no need to remix from the car! That will more likely just
> stuff it up on a decent system.
>
> Trevor. "
>
>
> Agreed 101%. But who, nowadays, listens on a
> "decent" system? The migration to tiny and portable
> is partly to blame for why so much of recorded
> music is mastered the way it has been for the last
> 15 years or so.
>
Any professional engineer who cares about the finished product.

Such as me when I'm recording an orchestra or choir, to give just a
couple of examples. It's amazing how loud distant traffic rumble can be
and still be unheard on a cheap system. Luckily, in the UK, we don't
often have air conditioning in the venues I use. Before I moved and more
or less gave up recording, my system for recording and playback was
fairly flat down to 20 Hz or less up to at least 20kHz, within the room
limits.

Then I checked on a few mates' cars and a few mp3 players, using friends
and performers to criticise the mix as needed, modifying as required.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[[email protected]]

John Williamson wrote: - show quoted text -
"Then I checked on a few mates' cars and a few mp3 players, using friends
and performers to criticise the mix as needed, modifying as required. "


In the case of the mp3 players, wouldn't "modifying as required"
mean dynamically compressing, or, peak limiting at least 6dB
off the track so it could be made loud enough for playback via
an amp the size of a M&M?

[John Williamson]

On 07/06/2016 17:44, wrote:
> John Williamson wrote: - show quoted text -
> "Then I checked on a few mates' cars and a few mp3 players, using friends
> and performers to criticise the mix as needed, modifying as required. "
>
>
> In the case of the mp3 players, wouldn't "modifying as required"
> mean dynamically compressing, or, peak limiting at least 6dB
> off the track so it could be made loud enough for playback via
> an amp the size of a M&M?
>
I have never found the need to do that.

A bit of mild compression to lift the lowest levels is all it's ever
taken, given careful recording and post production work. On multi track
recordings, a touch of compression on the vocals and careful
optimisation of background instrument levels with some gain riding will
be needed, given a good performance. If it's Fred from down the pub with
his mates playing while they're drunk out of their skulls at an open mic
night, then all gloves are off, it's multi track close mic'd with
autotune on all channels except maybe the drums and I do whatever needs
doing to get it to sound reasonable.

Then again, I don't work on Techno, Electro, Rap or Drum'n'Bass.

If you want to hear *loud* with very little compression on the recording
and post processing, listen to Phil Specter's Wall Of Sound singles and
albums. They also have a decent dynamic range both by listening and
looking at the playback envelope. They work well on everything I've ever
used, from a grotty transistor radio earpiece in the '60s to a full
range recording monitor setup in this Century, via an indecently loud
disco I used to run at college. That used to MAKE my ears distort in the
hall, but sounded fantastic from a few hundred yards away at the top of
the nearby hill with a girl to provide company. ;-)

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[[email protected]]

John Williamson wrote: -show quoted text -
"I have never found the need to do that.

A bit of mild compression to lift the lowest levels is all it's ever
taken, given careful recording and post production work. On multi track
recordings, a touch of compression on the vocals and careful
optimisation of background instrument levels with some gain riding will
be needed, given a good performance. If it's Fred from down the pub with
his mates playing while they're drunk out of their skulls at an open mic
night, then all gloves are off, it's multi track close mic'd with
autotune on all channels except maybe the drums and I do whatever needs
doing to get it to sound reasonable. "

Thanks John! This response qualifies for a 'sticky' in
any studio wall.


"Then again, I don't work on Techno, Electro, Rap or Drum'n'Bass. "

The abuse I described, to which you responded, is
rendered to most genres, including Country and dare
I say Classical nowadays, sadly. And not just the ones
listed in your reply.

[david gourley[_2_]]

John Williamson > said...news:dro6enFtf66U2
@mid.individual.net:

> On 07/06/2016 15:44, david gourley wrote:
>> Trevor > :
>>
>>> Exactly. But no need to remix from the car! That will more likely just
>>> stuff it up on a decent system.
>>
>> Not with the stock system in my Ford Ranger. If a mix sounds good in my
>> truck, it will sound great everywhere else. Go figure.
>>
> You've got a *really* horrible sound system? ;-)
>
>

No, just saying that my truck makes for a good check mix system.

david

[geoff]

On 8/06/2016 4:44 a.m., wrote:
> John Williamson wrote: - show quoted text -
> "Then I checked on a few mates' cars and a few mp3 players, using friends
> and performers to criticise the mix as needed, modifying as required. "
>
>
> In the case of the mp3 players, wouldn't "modifying as required"
> mean dynamically compressing, or, peak limiting at least 6dB
> off the track so it could be made loud enough for playback via
> an amp the size of a M&M?


No. Neither factor remotely relevant.

geoff

[JackA]

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 1:00:30 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> On 07/06/2016 17:44, wrote:
> > John Williamson wrote: - show quoted text -
> > "Then I checked on a few mates' cars and a few mp3 players, using friends
> > and performers to criticise the mix as needed, modifying as required. "
> >
> >
> > In the case of the mp3 players, wouldn't "modifying as required"
> > mean dynamically compressing, or, peak limiting at least 6dB
> > off the track so it could be made loud enough for playback via
> > an amp the size of a M&M?
> >
> I have never found the need to do that.
>
> A bit of mild compression to lift the lowest levels is all it's ever
> taken, given careful recording and post production work. On multi track
> recordings, a touch of compression on the vocals and careful
> optimisation of background instrument levels with some gain riding will
> be needed, given a good performance. If it's Fred from down the pub with
> his mates playing while they're drunk out of their skulls at an open mic
> night, then all gloves are off, it's multi track close mic'd with
> autotune on all channels except maybe the drums and I do whatever needs
> doing to get it to sound reasonable.
>
> Then again, I don't work on Techno, Electro, Rap or Drum'n'Bass.
>
> If you want to hear *loud* with very little compression on the recording
> and post processing, listen to Phil Specter's Wall Of Sound singles and
> albums. They also have a decent dynamic range both by listening and
> looking at the playback envelope.

Too much overdubbing, whey Back To Mono became necessary.
But, it Phil Spector. I often get it confused with Scepter Record, you know, Dionne Warwick and others. Like, this fine tune, I think it was remixed, sounds too good for just "remastering"...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/illneverfallagain.mp3

.... dead quite (after major enhancing), when I can tell it was remixed. You can't beat remixing analog multi-tracks in a digital world!!

Did you know, when the female who headed Scepter Records (Florence Greenberg) went to promote her label's songs, she ran into Berry Gordy who was on the same mission in Philadelphia (radio related). I bet you don't know who was asked to wait in the lobby!

Jack





They work well on everything I've ever
> used, from a grotty transistor radio earpiece in the '60s to a full
> range recording monitor setup in this Century, via an indecently loud
> disco I used to run at college. That used to MAKE my ears distort in the
> hall, but sounded fantastic from a few hundred yards away at the top of
> the nearby hill with a girl to provide company. ;-)
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

[Trevor]

On 8/06/2016 12:44 AM, david gourley wrote:
> Trevor > :
>> Exactly. But no need to remix from the car! That will more likely just
>> stuff it up on a decent system.
>>
>
> Not with the stock system in my Ford Ranger. If a mix sounds good in my
> truck, it will sound great everywhere else. ......

..... to you perhaps.

Trevor.

[Scott Dorsey]

John Williamson > wrote:
>
>If you want to hear *loud* with very little compression on the recording
>and post processing, listen to Phil Specter's Wall Of Sound singles and
>albums. They also have a decent dynamic range both by listening and
>looking at the playback envelope. They work well on everything I've ever
>used, from a grotty transistor radio earpiece in the '60s to a full
>range recording monitor setup in this Century, via an indecently loud
>disco I used to run at college. That used to MAKE my ears distort in the
>hall, but sounded fantastic from a few hundred yards away at the top of
>the nearby hill with a girl to provide company. ;-)

What makes those loud is that the arrangement is so tight. There is something
going on all the time, there is no space anywhere and no openings or sense
of air.

Loudness really comes from arrangement and performance. Gainriding can help
and compression can help, but it's mostly in front of the mike rather than
behind it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Chuck[_12_]]

On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 08:36:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

>Trevor wrote:
>"Exactly. But no need to remix from the car! That will more likely just
>stuff it up on a decent system.
>
>Trevor. "
>
>
>Agreed 101%. But who, nowadays, listens on a
>"decent" system? The migration to tiny and portable
>is partly to blame for why so much of recorded
>music is mastered the way it has been for the last
>15 years or so.


I thought that younger people didn't care about good sound too but I
just installed an NHT and Denon 7.1 audio system for my 27 year old
son. It sounds awesome even though it will probably be used for EDM
and video games.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[John Williamson]

On 08/06/2016 15:59, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> John Williamson > wrote:
>>
>> If you want to hear *loud* with very little compression on the recording
>> and post processing, listen to Phil Specter's Wall Of Sound singles and
>> albums. They also have a decent dynamic range both by listening and
>> looking at the playback envelope. They work well on everything I've ever
>> used, from a grotty transistor radio earpiece in the '60s to a full
>> range recording monitor setup in this Century, via an indecently loud
>> disco I used to run at college. That used to MAKE my ears distort in the
>> hall, but sounded fantastic from a few hundred yards away at the top of
>> the nearby hill with a girl to provide company. ;-)
>
> What makes those loud is that the arrangement is so tight. There is something
> going on all the time, there is no space anywhere and no openings or sense
> of air.
>
I know, and if he heard a gap, even for a bar or less, in the frequency
spread he wanted, he put an instrument in it. The backline at his
concerts was *huge* for the time. I've worked (As the tour bus driver,
they'd not let me mess with *that* sound. ;-) ) with, not a replica
exactly, but it was Junior Walker's son and his All Stars band, of it on
a Motown Memories tour a decade or so ago, when the promoters used the
wall of sound principle for the backing, and it was very impressive
indeed, without being stupidly high in absolute levels.

> Loudness really comes from arrangement and performance. Gainriding can help
> and compression can help, but it's mostly in front of the mike rather than
> behind it.
>
I agree 100% with that.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[John Williamson]

On 08/06/2016 17:08, Chuck wrote:
> I thought that younger people didn't care about good sound too but I
> just installed an NHT and Denon 7.1 audio system for my 27 year old
> son. It sounds awesome even though it will probably be used for EDM
> and video games.

<Grin> Some of the best sound engineers, mixers and performers, both
voice and instrumental, now work for the computer game industry.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[JackA]

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 2:13:25 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> On 08/06/2016 17:08, Chuck wrote:
> > I thought that younger people didn't care about good sound too but I
> > just installed an NHT and Denon 7.1 audio system for my 27 year old
> > son. It sounds awesome even though it will probably be used for EDM
> > and video games.
>
> <Grin> Some of the best sound engineers, mixers and performers, both
> voice and instrumental, now work for the computer game industry.

Certainly don't work for Dell Computers!

Yeah, so?...

http://sterling-sound.com/itunes/

Jack


>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

[Tim Sprout[_2_]]

On 6/4/2016 11:17 PM, geoff wrote:
> On 5/06/2016 3:51 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
>> Just got a little subwoofer for the new car (Prius V) that is worth
>> telling about. It is the Powerbass BTA8, an 8 inch woofer in a nice
>> carpeted enclosure with amp and connections.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Powerbass-BTA8-Single-8-Inch-Enclosure/dp/B0081OQRAO/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1465097524&sr=1-7&keywords=powered+subwoofer+8+inch
>>
>> The concept is a new car with upgrade JBL speaker system, but is
>> anemic in the bass.
>
> I can vouch for that approach being a vast improvement in car audio sound quality, and for one's aural health.
>
> With regular, even high quality, car speakers, there is usually just totally inadequate bass output. And in order to hear some bass the listening level is ofetn cranked higher than is good for you.
>
> Even a small sub can fill things out nand/or distortion from amp or drivers.
>
> This is the one I got, which is active, very low profile, and can run either from speaker lines or from a dedicated car-stereo amp sub output.
>
> http://www.jaycar.co.nz/Sight-%26-Sound-Car/Car-Speakers/Subwoofers/Under-Seat-Active-8-Subwoofer/p/CS2286
>
>
> geoff
>

Thanks for this. The Kenwood sub woofer is now bought and installed under my passenger seat. Much better car listening experience. The Kenwood remote control can vary the low pass from 50 Hz to 125 Hz and has gain control to the sub. For checking mixes without the sub, one can use the remote control to turn down the sub gain, or alternately, to avoid the low pass altogether, one can switch off the sub out from the control unit itself (Alpine CD player).

Tim Sprout

[geoff]

On 15/06/2016 4:38 a.m., Tim Sprout wrote:
>
>>
>
> Thanks for this. The Kenwood sub woofer is now bought and installed
> under my passenger seat. Much better car listening experience. The
> Kenwood remote control can vary the low pass from 50 Hz to 125 Hz and
> has gain control to the sub. For checking mixes without the sub, one
> can use the remote control to turn down the sub gain, or alternately,
> to avoid the low pass altogether, one can switch off the sub out from
> the control unit itself (Alpine CD player).
>
> Tim Sprout


And now you can actually hear and appreciate bass in your car, without
needing to crank to levels that would possible damage your hearing and
compromise your ability in Audio.Production !

geoff

[JackA]

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 5:35:36 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> On 15/06/2016 4:38 a.m., Tim Sprout wrote:
> >
> >>
> >
> > Thanks for this. The Kenwood sub woofer is now bought and installed
> > under my passenger seat. Much better car listening experience. The
> > Kenwood remote control can vary the low pass from 50 Hz to 125 Hz and
> > has gain control to the sub. For checking mixes without the sub, one
> > can use the remote control to turn down the sub gain, or alternately,
> > to avoid the low pass altogether, one can switch off the sub out from
> > the control unit itself (Alpine CD player).
> >
> > Tim Sprout
>
>
> And now you can actually hear and appreciate bass in your car, without
> needing to crank to levels that would possible damage your hearing and
> compromise your ability in Audio.Production !
>
> geoff

To me, Subwoofers are like Joint encoded MP3 - If you don't care for decent sounding stereo, they come in handy.

Speaking of Joint Encoding, I guess you could say I made one individual upset in the newsgroup next-door, since he claimed I don't tell anyone what I do for my impressive mastered sound. I felt bad, and dedicated a song to him. Wouldn't you know it, he bi*ched that I didn't Joint encode the MP3!!

Jack

[JackA]

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 2:11:00 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> On 08/06/2016 15:59, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > John Williamson > wrote:
> >>
> >> If you want to hear *loud* with very little compression on the recording
> >> and post processing, listen to Phil Specter's Wall Of Sound singles and
> >> albums. They also have a decent dynamic range both by listening and
> >> looking at the playback envelope. They work well on everything I've ever
> >> used, from a grotty transistor radio earpiece in the '60s to a full
> >> range recording monitor setup in this Century, via an indecently loud
> >> disco I used to run at college. That used to MAKE my ears distort in the
> >> hall, but sounded fantastic from a few hundred yards away at the top of
> >> the nearby hill with a girl to provide company. ;-)
> >
> > What makes those loud is that the arrangement is so tight. There is something
> > going on all the time, there is no space anywhere and no openings or sense
> > of air.
> >
> I know, and if he heard a gap, even for a bar or less, in the frequency
> spread he wanted, he put an instrument in it. The backline at his
> concerts was *huge* for the time. I've worked (As the tour bus driver,
> they'd not let me mess with *that* sound. ;-) ) with, not a replica
> exactly, but it was Junior Walker's son and his All Stars band, of it on
> a Motown Memories tour a decade or so ago, when the promoters used the
> wall of sound principle for the backing, and it was very impressive
> indeed, without being stupidly high in absolute levels.
>
> > Loudness really comes from arrangement and performance. Gainriding can help
> > and compression can help, but it's mostly in front of the mike rather than
> > behind it.
> >
> I agree 100% with that.

I say, that's the reason why so many overdubbed, like The Kinks, Yardbirds, etc., and Stereo renditions were not available, since limited tape number of tape tracks were available.

See, you don't need to increased DBs to make a louder sound, just fill in the gaps. It's like recording a pin drop, not very exciting (Ho-hum), but drop a million of them simultaneously, and it sounds like a clap of thunder!!

Jack
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.