Strange Experience on my Guitar Yesterday

[mcp6453[_2_]]

Maybe the musically inclined here can help me with this question. As background, I'm a terribly amateur musician, music
theory is a mystery to me, I absolutely can't sing, and the only way I can properly tune a guitar is with a tuner.
Yesterday for no reason, while playing a chord on my guitar that sounds a lot like "the chord" in the Beatles' "A Hard
Day's Night", I moved it up to the seventh or ninth fret. (I don't remember which.) As soon as I struck the chord, I
immediately recognized it as the same as or similar to the opening chord in "Venus", but Shocking Blue. I then loaded
"Venus" on my computer and hit play. Not only does the chord sound right to me, but it was in the exact key.

If I played it in a different key, it doesn't sound like the song. How does that happen?

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 5/9/2016 12:54 PM, Nil wrote:
> On 09 May 2016, mcp6453 > wrote in rec.audio.pro:
>
>> Maybe the musically inclined here can help me with this question.
>> As background, I'm a terribly amateur musician, music theory is a
>> mystery to me, I absolutely can't sing, and the only way I can
>> properly tune a guitar is with a tuner. Yesterday for no reason,
>> while playing a chord on my guitar that sounds a lot like "the
>> chord" in the Beatles' "A Hard Day's Night", I moved it up to the
>> seventh or ninth fret. (I don't remember which.) As soon as I
>> struck the chord, I immediately recognized it as the same as or
>> similar to the opening chord in "Venus", but Shocking Blue. I then
>> loaded "Venus" on my computer and hit play. Not only does the
>> chord sound right to me, but it was in the exact key.
>>
>> If I played it in a different key, it doesn't sound like the song.
>> How does that happen?
>
> ??? Are you funnin' us, or maybe I don't understand your question? If
> the chord is played differently, of course it doesn't sound like the
> song.
>
> The "Venus" chord is B7(sus4), played 797977 (lo to hi), barred at the
> 7th fret. The "Hard Day's Night" chord is often played with the same
> fingering barred at the third fret. That's not really what they play on
> the record, but it's close enough that people will recognize it.
>
> Telling us exactly what this mystery chord is and/or how it's played
> would be helpful.

I warned you that I'm not a musician, so I understand that I'm not doing a good job asking the question. Someone told me
once that F# is the perfect key. Songs played in F# have a special sound. Now, that's probably crap, but what I'm trying
to understand is how the "Venus" chord played at random at the 7th fret was immediately identifiable when it wasn't at
the 5th or 9th frets. If I had perfect pitch, maybe that would explain it, but I have little to no pitch.

And no, I'm not funnin' you. It's a serious question. There must be something in the physics of rhythmic vibrations at
play.

[[email protected]]

>
> And no, I'm not funnin' you. It's a serious question. There must be something in the physics of rhythmic vibrations at
> play.

when you change musical "key" up lets say...

its ___NOT___ the same effect as increasing the speed of a record which moves all the notes (frequencies) up by the SAME PERCENTAGE..

If you move all the notes by the same percentage, the chords would sound the same,,,,

if you move the notes by different percentages, the chord will sound different


right?

[Me]

me
> once that F# is the perfect key. Songs played in F# have a special sound"

Actually D#m is the saddest key of all. Listen to "Lick my love pump".

[None]

> wrote in message
...
> If you move all the notes by the same percentage, the chords would
> sound the same,,,,
>
> if you move the notes by different percentages, the chord will sound
> different

If you the same shape up the neck to a higher fret, you increase all
the note frequencies by the same percentage, so the chord will be
harmonically the same. But you haven't increased the frequencies of
the characteristic sound of the guitar, so it will be timbrally
different.

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

mcp6453 wrote:
> Maybe the musically inclined here can help me with this question. As background, I'm a terribly amateur musician, music
> theory is a mystery to me, I absolutely can't sing, and the only way I can properly tune a guitar is with a tuner.
> Yesterday for no reason, while playing a chord on my guitar that sounds a lot like "the chord" in the Beatles' "A Hard
> Day's Night", I moved it up to the seventh or ninth fret. (I don't remember which.) As soon as I struck the chord, I
> immediately recognized it as the same as or similar to the opening chord in "Venus", but Shocking Blue. I then loaded
> "Venus" on my computer and hit play. Not only does the chord sound right to me, but it was in the exact key.
>
> If I played it in a different key, it doesn't sound like the song. How does that happen?
>

Not too many songs start with a sus4 chord.

You just remember it. It's a big part of that song and it's a huge hook.
Nobody remembers that song, but everybody remembers
that chord. That's just how hooks and earworms work.

Pitch is part of your lingustic mechanism. Most languages on the
world use pitch as part of meaning/semantics. English just uses it much
less so.

My kids listen to nearly-hookless stuff and I can barely
remember it.

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

mcp6453 wrote:
> On 5/9/2016 12:54 PM, Nil wrote:
>> On 09 May 2016, mcp6453 > wrote in
>> rec.audio.pro:
>>
>>> Maybe the musically inclined here can help me with this
>>> question. As background, I'm a terribly amateur musician, music
>>> theory is a mystery to me, I absolutely can't sing, and the only
>>> way I can properly tune a guitar is with a tuner. Yesterday for
>>> no reason, while playing a chord on my guitar that sounds a lot
>>> like "the chord" in the Beatles' "A Hard Day's Night", I moved it
>>> up to the seventh or ninth fret. (I don't remember which.) As
>>> soon as I struck the chord, I immediately recognized it as the
>>> same as or similar to the opening chord in "Venus", but Shocking
>>> Blue. I then loaded "Venus" on my computer and hit play. Not only
>>> does the chord sound right to me, but it was in the exact key.
>>>
>>> If I played it in a different key, it doesn't sound like the
>>> song. How does that happen?
>>
>> ??? Are you funnin' us, or maybe I don't understand your question?
>> If the chord is played differently, of course it doesn't sound like
>> the song.
>>
>> The "Venus" chord is B7(sus4), played 797977 (lo to hi), barred at
>> the 7th fret. The "Hard Day's Night" chord is often played with the
>> same fingering barred at the third fret. That's not really what
>> they play on the record, but it's close enough that people will
>> recognize it.
>>
>> Telling us exactly what this mystery chord is and/or how it's
>> played would be helpful.
>
> I warned you that I'm not a musician, so I understand that I'm not
> doing a good job asking the question. Someone told me once that F# is
> the perfect key. Songs played in F# have a special sound. Now, that's
> probably crap, but what I'm trying to understand is how the "Venus"
> chord played at random at the 7th fret was immediately identifiable
> when it wasn't at the 5th or 9th frets. If I had perfect pitch, maybe
> that would explain it, but I have little to no pitch.
>
> And no, I'm not funnin' you. It's a serious question. There must be
> something in the physics of rhythmic vibrations at play.
>

No, it's all the latent lingustic parts of your nervous system, the
parts Noam Chomsky just gave up on trying to explain.

The guy who taught the sociology class I took in college was part
( a grad student/experimenter, not a subject ) of a study where
they hooked people up to alpha wave detector machines and played music.

He claimed he was partly responsible for disco because of that. His
point ( which stuck with me ) is that a lot of people's
processing is not conscious.

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Me wrote:
>
> me
>> once that F# is the perfect key. Songs played in F# have a special sound"
>
> Actually D#m is the saddest key of all. Listen to "Lick my love pump".
>

*D* minor. :)

--
Les Cargill

[Nil[_2_]]

On 09 May 2016, mcp6453 > wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> I warned you that I'm not a musician, so I understand that I'm not
> doing a good job asking the question. Someone told me once that F#
> is the perfect key. Songs played in F# have a special sound. Now,
> that's probably crap,

All keys have a "special" sound - that's what makes them distinct
from other keys. But there's nothing any more special about F# than
any other key, except that is somewhat more difficult to play in
that key for some instruments such as piano than in some other keys.
Therefore, the key of F# is less common.

So, yeah, your friend is speaking crap.

> but what I'm trying to understand is how the "Venus" chord played
> at random at the 7th fret was immediately identifiable when it
> wasn't at the 5th or 9th frets. If I had perfect pitch, maybe that
> would explain it, but I have little to no pitch.

You have a better sense of pitch than you give yourself credit for.
If you are very familiar with the record, and especially if you've
listened to it recently, the pitches of the melody and harmony are
still in your memory, waiting to be matched with a real-world
example.

> And no, I'm not funnin' you. It's a serious question. There must
> be something in the physics of rhythmic vibrations at play.

Only in that the sustain characteristics of a strummed guitar change
a bit the farther up the neck you go - generally, the notes on the
shorter strings may be perceived as fading faster and the attack may
seem a little faster and snappier. Maybe your particular guitar
and/or the way you play it emphasizes that effect.

[geoff]

On 10/05/2016 2:25 p.m., None wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> If you move all the notes by the same percentage, the chords would
>> sound the same,,,,
>>
>> if you move the notes by different percentages, the chord will sound
>> different
>
> If you the same shape up the neck to a higher fret, you increase all
> the note frequencies by the same percentage, so the chord will be
> harmonically the same. But you haven't increased the frequencies of
> the characteristic sound of the guitar, so it will be timbrally
> different.
>
>
>

The most fantastic chord will sound even better if you shift the
predominant frequency up the 3 kilohertz.

geoff

[geoff]

On 10/05/2016 2:32 p.m., Les Cargill wrote:
>
> less so.
>
> My kids listen to nearly-hookless stuff and I can barely
> remember it.
>

And presumably nobody will after a year (or less).

geoff

[polymod]

"Nil" wrote in message ...
<snip>

You have a better sense of pitch than you give yourself credit for.
If you are very familiar with the record, and especially if you've
listened to it recently, the pitches of the melody and harmony are
still in your memory, waiting to be matched with a real-world
example.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

+1.

Poly