leaded vs lead-free solder

[Nil[_2_]]

Can I assume that all electronics in the past several (how many?) years
use lead-free solder? I still have a big roll of rosin-core leaded
solder that will last for many more years at the rate I use it. Is
there any problem mixing it with lead-free solder? It seems to not be,
but maybe I just don't see it yet.

[Scott Dorsey]

Nil > wrote:
>Can I assume that all electronics in the past several (how many?) years
>use lead-free solder?

Anything sold in Europe that isn't military, aircraft, or telecom since
2006 has had to use the material.

Because the lead-free material is so awful, there are a number of exceptions
for high-reliability applications.

>I still have a big roll of rosin-core leaded
>solder that will last for many more years at the rate I use it. Is
>there any problem mixing it with lead-free solder? It seems to not be,
>but maybe I just don't see it yet.

Yes, if you mix them, the resulting alloy is likely brittle. Suck off
all the RoHS crap solder from the joint, apply clean leaded solder. Then
suck that off, and then solder with leaded solder. Inspect the joint: it
should look like a proper leaded solder joint and not dull. It should be
readily distinguishable from the other joints on the board.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Hardy]

On 5/8/2016 5:22 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Nil > wrote:
>> Can I assume that all electronics in the past several (how many?) years
>> use lead-free solder?
>
> Anything sold in Europe that isn't military, aircraft, or telecom since
> 2006 has had to use the material.
>
> Because the lead-free material is so awful, there are a number of exceptions
> for high-reliability applications.
>
>> I still have a big roll of rosin-core leaded
>> solder that will last for many more years at the rate I use it. Is
>> there any problem mixing it with lead-free solder? It seems to not be,
>> but maybe I just don't see it yet.
>
> Yes, if you mix them, the resulting alloy is likely brittle. Suck off
> all the RoHS crap solder from the joint, apply clean leaded solder. Then
> suck that off, and then solder with leaded solder. Inspect the joint: it
> should look like a proper leaded solder joint and not dull. It should be
> readily distinguishable from the other joints on the board.
> --scott
>

Still 63/37 here. I want no part of lead-free.

John Hardy
The John Hardy Co.
johnhardyco.com

[JackA]

On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 7:42:49 PM UTC-4, John Hardy wrote:
> On 5/8/2016 5:22 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > Nil > wrote:
> >> Can I assume that all electronics in the past several (how many?) years
> >> use lead-free solder?
> >
> > Anything sold in Europe that isn't military, aircraft, or telecom since
> > 2006 has had to use the material.
> >
> > Because the lead-free material is so awful, there are a number of exceptions
> > for high-reliability applications.
> >
> >> I still have a big roll of rosin-core leaded
> >> solder that will last for many more years at the rate I use it. Is
> >> there any problem mixing it with lead-free solder? It seems to not be,
> >> but maybe I just don't see it yet.
> >
> > Yes, if you mix them, the resulting alloy is likely brittle. Suck off
> > all the RoHS crap solder from the joint, apply clean leaded solder. Then
> > suck that off, and then solder with leaded solder. Inspect the joint: it
> > should look like a proper leaded solder joint and not dull. It should be
> > readily distinguishable from the other joints on the board.
> > --scott
> >
>
> Still 63/37 here. I want no part of lead-free.

Amen!

Jack

>
> John Hardy
> The John Hardy Co.
> johnhardyco.com

[Scott Dorsey]

John Hardy > wrote:
>
>Still 63/37 here. I want no part of lead-free.

Are you doing anything particular for European sales?

My problem is that I can't get parts with leaded leads anymore... so I
wind up having to tin resistors and the like in a solder bath for high
voltage applications where tin whiskers can be an issue.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Hardy]

On 5/8/2016 8:18 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> John Hardy > wrote:
>>
>> Still 63/37 here. I want no part of lead-free.
>
> Are you doing anything particular for European sales?
>
> My problem is that I can't get parts with leaded leads anymore... so I
> wind up having to tin resistors and the like in a solder bath for high
> voltage applications where tin whiskers can be an issue.
> --scott
>
>

Regarding European sales, I advise customers from Europe that I am using
leaded solder and that my products do not conform to ROHS. It is up to
them to decide if it will be an issue. I don't know if the various
European governments pay any attention to individual orders.

I'm sure that many of my preamps have ended up in Europe one way or
another, either shipped directly from me, or from one of my dealers, or
shipped to a USA address and forwarded to Europe.

I would like to think that my preamps are a lot less likely than the
usual electronic devices to end up in land-fills, so leaded solder is a
non-issue.

I should check the solder tank of my wave solder machine to see what the
tin/lead percentages of the solder are. Years of wave soldering
components with lead-free plating can alter the alloy. The solder
results are fine as-is, so the alloy is not far off.

John Hardy
The John Hardy Co.
johnhardyco.com

[Nil[_2_]]

On 08 May 2016, (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> Nil > wrote:
>>Can I assume that all electronics in the past several (how many?)
>>years use lead-free solder?
>
> Anything sold in Europe that isn't military, aircraft, or telecom
> since 2006 has had to use the material.

What about USA-sold consumer electronics?

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Nil wrote:

>
> >
> > Anything sold in Europe that isn't military, aircraft, or telecom
> > since 2006 has had to use the material.
>
>
> What about USA-sold consumer electronics?
>

** While there is no legal prohibition on the use of Pb solder in the USA, almost everything on sale is Pb free - cos it has been made for a world market.



..... Phil

[Nil[_2_]]

On 09 May 2016, Phil Allison > wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> Nil wrote:

>> What about USA-sold consumer electronics?
>
> ** While there is no legal prohibition on the use of Pb solder in
> the USA, almost everything on sale is Pb free - cos it has been
> made for a world market.

So I guess I should assume that everything made in the past decade uses
lead-free, right? And there's no reliable way to visually distinguish
lead-free from leaded?

What brought the question up this time is that I have a made-in-China
electric guitar, probably made in 2015, that I'm rewiring. I used my
leaded solder and it seemed to meld in with the existing solder and the
joints look and feel solid.

[geoff]

On 9/05/2016 4:51 PM, Nil wrote:
> On 09 May 2016, Phil Allison > wrote in
> rec.audio.pro:
>
>> Nil wrote:
>
>>> What about USA-sold consumer electronics?
>>
>> ** While there is no legal prohibition on the use of Pb solder in
>> the USA, almost everything on sale is Pb free - cos it has been
>> made for a world market.
>
> So I guess I should assume that everything made in the past decade uses
> lead-free, right? And there's no reliable way to visually distinguish
> lead-free from leaded?
>
> What brought the question up this time is that I have a made-in-China
> electric guitar, probably made in 2015, that I'm rewiring. I used my
> leaded solder and it seemed to meld in with the existing solder and the
> joints look and feel solid.
>


It will likely have a 'lead free' logo (crossed circle with letters "Pb"
inside) on the back, or at least on the PCBs.

geoff

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Nil wrote:

Phil Allison
>
>
> > Nil wrote:
>
> >> What about USA-sold consumer electronics?
> >
> > ** While there is no legal prohibition on the use of Pb solder in
> > the USA, almost everything on sale is Pb free - cos it has been
> > made for a world market.
>
> So I guess I should assume that everything made in the past decade uses
> lead-free, right? And there's no reliable way to visually distinguish
> lead-free from leaded?
>

** Most such products are marked "Pb free" or else " RoHS " on the back panels or the PCBs.

But in any case, if all the soldering looks dull or frosty and does not get any better looking after re-working with leaded solder - it's Pb free.

BYTW:

knowing the solder used is "Pb free" does not tell you what kind it is.



..... Phil

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 09-05-2016 08:15, geoff wrote:

> On 9/05/2016 4:51 PM, Nil wrote:
>> On 09 May 2016, Phil Allison > wrote in
>> rec.audio.pro:

>>> Nil wrote:

>>>> What about USA-sold consumer electronics?

>>> ** While there is no legal prohibition on the use of Pb solder in
>>> the USA, almost everything on sale is Pb free - cos it has been
>>> made for a world market.

>> So I guess I should assume that everything made in the past decade uses
>> lead-free, right? And there's no reliable way to visually distinguish
>> lead-free from leaded?

>> What brought the question up this time is that I have a made-in-China
>> electric guitar, probably made in 2015, that I'm rewiring. I used my
>> leaded solder and it seemed to meld in with the existing solder and the
>> joints look and feel solid.

> It will likely have a 'lead free' logo (crossed circle with letters "Pb"
> inside) on the back, or at least on the PCBs.

Please do not assume all labeling to be correct. However reportedly lead
free always look "cold". See also Scotts posts on this.

> geoff

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Mon, 9 May 2016 09:34:40 +0100, Peter Larsen >
wrote:

>Please do not assume all labeling to be correct. However reportedly lead
>free always look "cold". See also Scotts posts on this.
>

Not always. RoHS solder in a surface mount machine with really good
temperature profiling can look bright and shiny. But I have yet to
find a way to use lead-free solder on a hand soldering station
successfully. I always strip the solder back and use leaded.

d

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[geoff]

On 9/05/2016 8:39 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
> On Mon, 9 May 2016 09:34:40 +0100, Peter Larsen >
> wrote:
>
>> Please do not assume all labeling to be correct. However reportedly lead
>> free always look "cold". See also Scotts posts on this.
>>
>
> Not always. RoHS solder in a surface mount machine with really good
> temperature profiling can look bright and shiny. But I have yet to
> find a way to use lead-free solder on a hand soldering station
> successfully.

Turn the temp up to max and you might have better luck.

If you want to use that crap, that is.

geoff

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Mon, 9 May 2016 23:04:06 +1200, geoff >
wrote:

>On 9/05/2016 8:39 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 May 2016 09:34:40 +0100, Peter Larsen >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Please do not assume all labeling to be correct. However reportedly lead
>>> free always look "cold". See also Scotts posts on this.
>>>
>>
>> Not always. RoHS solder in a surface mount machine with really good
>> temperature profiling can look bright and shiny. But I have yet to
>> find a way to use lead-free solder on a hand soldering station
>> successfully.
>
>Turn the temp up to max and you might have better luck.
>
>If you want to use that crap, that is.

Tried that - no real success. It helps a little to add extra flux, but
I prefer to use Pb/Sn. I don't do much soldering so I have no worries
about long term lead ingestion.

d

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[[email protected]]

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 7:22:03 AM UTC-4, Don Pearce wrote:
> On Mon, 9 May 2016 23:04:06 +1200, geoff mgeoffwood.org>
> wrote:
>
> >On 9/05/2016 8:39 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
> >> On Mon, 9 May 2016 09:34:40 +0100, Peter Larsen >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Please do not assume all labeling to be correct. However reportedly lead
> >>> free always look "cold". See also Scotts posts on this.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Not always. RoHS solder in a surface mount machine with really good
> >> temperature profiling can look bright and shiny. But I have yet to
> >> find a way to use lead-free solder on a hand soldering station
> >> successfully.
> >
> >Turn the temp up to max and you might have better luck.
> >
> >If you want to use that crap, that is.
>
> Tried that - no real success. It helps a little to add extra flux, but
> I prefer to use Pb/Sn. I don't do much soldering so I have no worries
> about long term lead ingestion.
>
> d
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Lead levels in municipal water supplies far
outweighs any risk from the lead in solder in
electronics. I wish the government would
find better places to stick their noses in.

[JackA]

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 7:26:02 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 7:22:03 AM UTC-4, Don Pearce wrote:
> > On Mon, 9 May 2016 23:04:06 +1200, geoff mgeoffwood.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On 9/05/2016 8:39 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 9 May 2016 09:34:40 +0100, Peter Larsen >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Please do not assume all labeling to be correct. However reportedly lead
> > >>> free always look "cold". See also Scotts posts on this.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Not always. RoHS solder in a surface mount machine with really good
> > >> temperature profiling can look bright and shiny. But I have yet to
> > >> find a way to use lead-free solder on a hand soldering station
> > >> successfully.
> > >
> > >Turn the temp up to max and you might have better luck.
> > >
> > >If you want to use that crap, that is.
> >
> > Tried that - no real success. It helps a little to add extra flux, but
> > I prefer to use Pb/Sn. I don't do much soldering so I have no worries
> > about long term lead ingestion.
> >
> > d
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> Lead levels in municipal water supplies far
> outweighs any risk from the lead in solder in
> electronics. I wish the government would
> find better places to stick their noses in.

Whoa!! Tell it like it is!!

Jack

[Frank Stearns]

writes:

snips

>Lead levels in municipal water supplies far
>outweighs any risk from the lead in solder in
>electronics. I wish the government would
>find better places to stick their noses in.

And the irony -- lead in electronics accounts for a very small amount of total world
use and is generally stable alloyed with tin. Batteries account for some 80% of lead
use, and of course such batteries would not work without lead so they, by default,
are not RoHS compliant. What a silly scam fostered by ignorant folk.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Scott Dorsey]

Nil > wrote:
>On 08 May 2016, (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
>rec.audio.pro:
>
>> Nil > wrote:
>>>Can I assume that all electronics in the past several (how many?)
>>>years use lead-free solder?
>>
>> Anything sold in Europe that isn't military, aircraft, or telecom
>> since 2006 has had to use the material.
>
>What about USA-sold consumer electronics?

It doesn't matter in the USA... but these days consumer electronics are all
made in China for global sales, so they pretty much all have lead-free stuff.

You could have stuff made with leaded solder specifically for the US market,
but it costs more and consumers don't care about reliability.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Nil > wrote:
>So I guess I should assume that everything made in the past decade uses
>lead-free, right?

Yes.

>And there's no reliable way to visually distinguish
>lead-free from leaded?

The difference is very clear and obvious once you get the hang of it.
Good lead-free joints look like bad crystallized leaded solder joints.
They all have a dull surface.

Part of the problem with the lead-free stuff is that you cannot inspect
the joints visually to see if they are good, because they all look like that.

>What brought the question up this time is that I have a made-in-China
>electric guitar, probably made in 2015, that I'm rewiring. I used my
>leaded solder and it seemed to meld in with the existing solder and the
>joints look and feel solid.

Wait another 20 years and see what happens.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

> wrote:
>On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 7:22:03 AM UTC-4, Don Pearce wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 May 2016 23:04:06 +1200, geoff mgeoffwood.org>
>>
>> Tried that - no real success. It helps a little to add extra flux, but
>> I prefer to use Pb/Sn. I don't do much soldering so I have no worries
>> about long term lead ingestion.
>
>Lead levels in municipal water supplies far
>outweighs any risk from the lead in solder in
>electronics. I wish the government would
>find better places to stick their noses in.

People get lead poisoning from working on electronics and then eating a
sandwich and carrying the lead from their fingers into their mouth. Same
problems with cigarettes; it used to be a real problem for assembly workers
who would get lead on their hands and then on their cigarettes and then
lick the ends and get it in their mouth.

Lead exposure in assembly and rework is a non-issue IF you follow the
rules, you wash your hand carefully every time you leave your bench, and
you don't take food or tobacco to your bench. But you HAVE to follow those
rules.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 8:47:16 AM UTC-4, Frank Stearns wrote:
> writes:
>
> snips
>
> >Lead levels in municipal water supplies far
> >outweighs any risk from the lead in solder in
> >electronics. I wish the government would
> >find better places to stick their noses in.
>
> And the irony -- lead in electronics accounts for a very small amount of total world
> use and is generally stable alloyed with tin. Batteries account for some 80% of lead
> use, and of course such batteries would not work without lead so they, by default,
> are not RoHS compliant. What a silly scam fostered by ignorant folk.
>
> Frank
> Mobile Audio
> --
> .

that what happens when you let politicians take charge

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Frank Stearns wrote:
> writes:
>
> snips
>
>> Lead levels in municipal water supplies far
>> outweighs any risk from the lead in solder in
>> electronics. I wish the government would
>> find better places to stick their noses in.
>
> And the irony -- lead in electronics accounts for a very small amount of total world
> use and is generally stable alloyed with tin. Batteries account for some 80% of lead
> use, and of course such batteries would not work without lead so they, by default,
> are not RoHS compliant. What a silly scam fostered by ignorant folk.
>
> Frank
> Mobile Audio
>

1) Something must be done.
2) This is something.
3) This must be done.

(I originally heard this on "Yes, Minister" )

--
Les Cargill

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Les Cargill wrote:
>
> Frank Stearns wrote:
> >
> > And the irony -- lead in electronics accounts for a very small
> > amount of total world use and is generally stable alloyed with tin.
> >
> > Batteries account for some 80% of lead use, and of course such
> > batteries would not work without lead so they, by default,
> > are not RoHS compliant. What a silly scam fostered by ignorant folk.
> >
>
>
> 1) Something must be done.
> 2) This is something.
> 3) This must be done.
>
> (I originally heard this on "Yes, Minister" )
>

** Batteries are not covered by the RoHS rules, but they have their own set of restrictions that apply in EU countries.

Lead based batteries as used in automobiles are heavily recycled world wide and have been for decades. In the USA, over 90% of such batteries are recycled cos the lead inside is both valuable and easily recovered.

The problem with lead based solders is that the lead cannot be extracted and re-used - plus the products do end up in land fills.



..... Phil

[Frank Stearns]

Phil Allison > writes:

>Les Cargill wrote:
>>
>> Frank Stearns wrote:
>> >
>> > And the irony -- lead in electronics accounts for a very small
>> > amount of total world use and is generally stable alloyed with tin.
>> >
>> > Batteries account for some 80% of lead use, and of course such
>> > batteries would not work without lead so they, by default,
>> > are not RoHS compliant. What a silly scam fostered by ignorant folk.
>> >
>>
>>
>> 1) Something must be done.
>> 2) This is something.
>> 3) This must be done.
>>
>> (I originally heard this on "Yes, Minister" )
>>

>** Batteries are not covered by the RoHS rules, but they have their own set of
>restrictions that apply in EU countries.

Which is appropriate, given the sheer "volume and density" of a nasty pollution
source.

>The problem with lead based solders is that the lead cannot be extracted and
>re-used - plus the products do end up in land fills.

Right - but does the lead actually leech out? My understanding is that in alloy form
it does not; perhaps akin to that inability to recover lead used in this form that
you noted.

But even if it does leech, would not the bulk of discarded electronics be going into
newer landfills, which are typically lined now to prevent migration of hazardous
materials?

Like many politically-motivated "solutions", particularly in the environmental
arena, this one seems less helpful or perhaps has unintended consequences (such as
the volume of discarded electronics increasing as the fail rate due to RoHS
increases).

Some aspects of RoHS appear to be reasonable, well thought out, and useful; but this
aspect of RoHS perhaps not so much so.

Frank
Mobile Audio


--

[Scott Dorsey]

John Hardy > wrote:
>
>Regarding European sales, I advise customers from Europe that I am using
>leaded solder and that my products do not conform to ROHS. It is up to
>them to decide if it will be an issue. I don't know if the various
>European governments pay any attention to individual orders.

That's what an awful lot of smaller audio manufacturers are doing, and it
kind of makes me a little nervous but on the other hand I haven't heard of
anyone getting anything stopped at customs recently.

>I would like to think that my preamps are a lot less likely than the
>usual electronic devices to end up in land-fills, so leaded solder is a
>non-issue.

I agree, but sadly it matters mostly what the EU customs people think and not
what I think. In fact, I think the whole RoHS thing has actually made the
disposal problem worse; now consumer gear fails faster so it's being dumped
into landfills at a higher rate.

>I should check the solder tank of my wave solder machine to see what the
>tin/lead percentages of the solder are. Years of wave soldering
>components with lead-free plating can alter the alloy. The solder
>results are fine as-is, so the alloy is not far off.

There's actually a NASA standard for that but I think they are more worried
about gold and silver contamination (which can also cause trouble). I had
no idea you were wave soldering in house, though!
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Hardy]

On 5/10/2016 9:10 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> John Hardy > wrote:
>>
>> Regarding European sales, I advise customers from Europe that I am using
>> leaded solder and that my products do not conform to ROHS. It is up to
>> them to decide if it will be an issue. I don't know if the various
>> European governments pay any attention to individual orders.
>
> That's what an awful lot of smaller audio manufacturers are doing, and it
> kind of makes me a little nervous but on the other hand I haven't heard of
> anyone getting anything stopped at customs recently.
>
>> I would like to think that my preamps are a lot less likely than the
>> usual electronic devices to end up in land-fills, so leaded solder is a
>> non-issue.
>
> I agree, but sadly it matters mostly what the EU customs people think and not
> what I think. In fact, I think the whole RoHS thing has actually made the
> disposal problem worse; now consumer gear fails faster so it's being dumped
> into landfills at a higher rate.
>
>> I should check the solder tank of my wave solder machine to see what the
>> tin/lead percentages of the solder are. Years of wave soldering
>> components with lead-free plating can alter the alloy. The solder
>> results are fine as-is, so the alloy is not far off.
>
> There's actually a NASA standard for that but I think they are more worried
> about gold and silver contamination (which can also cause trouble). I had
> no idea you were wave soldering in house, though!
> --scott
>
Yes, I do wave-soldering in-house. I have a relatively rare Electrovert
wave solder machine that runs on 240V single-phase power, perfect for
residential power schemes.

I have the surface-mount version of the 990 op-amps pick & place
assembled and reflow soldered by a local company that does excellent
work. They have two almost identical P&P assembly lines. One line is
lead-free, the other is 63/37 leaded solder. Two wave solder machines as
well.

John Hardy
The John Hardy Co
johnhardyco.com

[Frank Stearns]

John Hardy > writes:

>On 5/10/2016 9:10 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> John Hardy > wrote:

snips

>I have the surface-mount version of the 990 op-amps pick & place
>assembled and reflow soldered by a local company that does excellent
>work. They have two almost identical P&P assembly lines. One line is
>lead-free, the other is 63/37 leaded solder. Two wave solder machines as
>well.

For John and Scott --

For the rare board work and more often cable builds I do I use a tin/lead/silver
(2%) solder. Maybe I'm just lazy or it's less-than-ideal technique but that little
bit of silver sure makes for much easier work. Flow is better, mechanics seem
better.

Curious why this is not more widely used... simply cost?

Frank

--

[geoff]

On 11/05/2016 2:10 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

>
> I agree, but sadly it matters mostly what the EU customs people think and not
> what I think. In fact, I think the whole RoHS thing has actually made the
> disposal problem worse; now consumer gear fails faster so it's being dumped
> into landfills at a higher rate.
>
..... combined with the rapid march of technology and increasingly rapid
redundancy of standards.

geoff

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 5/10/2016 3:06 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:
> John Hardy > writes:
>
>> On 5/10/2016 9:10 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> John Hardy > wrote:
>
> snips
>
>> I have the surface-mount version of the 990 op-amps pick & place
>> assembled and reflow soldered by a local company that does excellent
>> work. They have two almost identical P&P assembly lines. One line is
>> lead-free, the other is 63/37 leaded solder. Two wave solder machines as
>> well.
>
> For John and Scott --
>
> For the rare board work and more often cable builds I do I use a tin/lead/silver
> (2%) solder. Maybe I'm just lazy or it's less-than-ideal technique but that little
> bit of silver sure makes for much easier work. Flow is better, mechanics seem
> better.
>
> Curious why this is not more widely used... simply cost?

Where do you buy it? I just finished up my last roll of 2% silver. It's expensive, but it lasts for years at the rate I
use it.

[Frank Stearns]

mcp6453 > writes:

snips

>Where do you buy it? I just finished up my last roll of 2% silver. It's expensive,
>but it lasts for years at the rate I >use it.

I'm about the same; bought a pound in 2001 and still probably have enough left
for the remaining projects in my lifetime.

I got mine from a place called "Percy Audio" (percyaudio.com). 21ga "Wonder Solder."
Silly name, but very good stuff.

Just went to his site (hasn't changed in 20 years). But he's apparently still in
business. Several of the offerings appeal to the fringe-lunatic audio-phool crowd.

But if you can separate the silly from the sound (no pun) he can be a good source of
hard-to-find items in small quantities at actually reasonable prices -- considering
the market being targeted. (A 1/4 pound of that solder is only US$19, and I've seen
similar stuff elsewhere for a lot more money. Even the fact that he'll sell you a
1/4 pound is nice.)

I also bought some higher-end caps and a few other knick-knacks that helped with a
console rebuild back when I was still mixing analog. No complaints about the order
handling or timeliness.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[JackA]

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 6:52:23 PM UTC-4, Frank Stearns wrote:
> mcp6453 > writes:
>
> snips
>
> >Where do you buy it? I just finished up my last roll of 2% silver. It's expensive,
> >but it lasts for years at the rate I >use it.
>
> I'm about the same; bought a pound in 2001 and still probably have enough left
> for the remaining projects in my lifetime.
>
> I got mine from a place called "Percy Audio" (percyaudio.com). 21ga "Wonder Solder."
> Silly name, but very good stuff.
>
> Just went to his site (hasn't changed in 20 years). But he's apparently still in
> business. Several of the offerings appeal to the fringe-lunatic audio-phool crowd.

This place is decent, never a problem on my end...
http://www.allelectronics.com/

Jack
>
> But if you can separate the silly from the sound (no pun) he can be a good source of
> hard-to-find items in small quantities at actually reasonable prices -- considering
> the market being targeted. (A 1/4 pound of that solder is only US$19, and I've seen
> similar stuff elsewhere for a lot more money. Even the fact that he'll sell you a
> 1/4 pound is nice.)
>
> I also bought some higher-end caps and a few other knick-knacks that helped with a
> console rebuild back when I was still mixing analog. No complaints about the order
> handling or timeliness.
>
> Frank
> Mobile Audio
> --
> .

[Frank Stearns]

(Scott Dorsey) writes:

>Frank Stearns > wrote:
>>For the rare board work and more often cable builds I do I use a tin/lead/silver
>>(2%) solder. Maybe I'm just lazy or it's less-than-ideal technique but that little
>>bit of silver sure makes for much easier work. Flow is better, mechanics seem
>>better.
>>
>>Curious why this is not more widely used... simply cost?

>It forms voids more easily, and it creates a dull-looking joint so again
>it cannot easily be inspected.

I assume you mean "a shiny-looking" joint, as most joints always look good with the
silver I use, but I get the drift. Looks can be (more) deceiving with this solder...
Verrrry interesting, did not know this. Thanks. (Come to think of it, I did have a
bad joint on the splitter rebuild I did a few months back. Had to reheat a few...)

snips

>If 63/37 doesn't flow well enough for you, get some liquid rosin and
>apply it liberally before working.

Thanks, good idea.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[jason]

On Tue, 10 May 2016 07:25:26 -0500 "Frank Stearns"
> wrote in article
>

> Right - but does the lead actually leech out?
>

I've wondered that myself. A few years ago I read scare-mongering
article about lead leaching from discarded CRT's. It turns out that it
does, given enough time and exposure to water. If that's true,and it
seems to be (Google) then solder joints would seem to be vulnerable as
well.

[John Williamson]

On 11/05/2016 22:55, Jason wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2016 07:25:26 -0500 "Frank Stearns"
> > wrote in article
> >
>
>> Right - but does the lead actually leech out?
>>
>
> I've wondered that myself. A few years ago I read scare-mongering
> article about lead leaching from discarded CRT's. It turns out that it
> does, given enough time and exposure to water. If that's true,and it
> seems to be (Google) then solder joints would seem to be vulnerable as
> well.
>
Yes, the tin and the lead will leach out. However, as they are both
fairly inert metals, unless the groundwater is fairly acidic and the
dump does not have treatment (As simple as a reed bed) at the outfall,
it's a minor problem. On the other hand, Polychlorinated Biphenols and
other stuff such as the electrolyte in capacitors are water soluble and
much more obvious in its effects.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 5/9/2016 9:51 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> People get lead poisoning from working on electronics and then eating a
> sandwich and carrying the lead from their fingers into their mouth. Same
> problems with cigarettes; it used to be a real problem for assembly workers
> who would get lead on their hands and then on their cigarettes and then
> lick the ends and get it in their mouth.
>
> Lead exposure in assembly and rework is a non-issue IF you follow the
> rules, you wash your hand carefully every time you leave your bench, and
> you don't take food or tobacco to your bench. But you HAVE to follow those
> rules.

By the way, I have several one pound rolls of 0.031" solder that are so old, the labels have fallen off of the ends of
the spools. There is a good chance that one or more of them is 2% silver. How can I tell? I thought about trying to test
the melt temperature, but I don't have a variable heat soldering iron.

[Scott Dorsey]

mcp6453 > wrote:
>On 5/9/2016 9:51 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> People get lead poisoning from working on electronics and then eating a
>> sandwich and carrying the lead from their fingers into their mouth. Same
>> problems with cigarettes; it used to be a real problem for assembly workers
>> who would get lead on their hands and then on their cigarettes and then
>> lick the ends and get it in their mouth.
>>
>> Lead exposure in assembly and rework is a non-issue IF you follow the
>> rules, you wash your hand carefully every time you leave your bench, and
>> you don't take food or tobacco to your bench. But you HAVE to follow those
>> rules.
>
>By the way, I have several one pound rolls of 0.031" solder that are so old, the labels have fallen off of the ends of
>the spools. There is a good chance that one or more of them is 2% silver. How can I tell? I thought about trying to test
>the melt temperature, but I don't have a variable heat soldering iron.
>

The wire should look different; the outer surface will be less shiny for the
silver-bearing solder.

You can also heat it up and shake it and see if it's eutectic or not (which
will separate 63/37 from other types).
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."