GREAT SUCCESS!

[Gary Eickmeier]

The journey has ended! I am there! Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround AC3. In a
discussion with Ethan Winer, he suggested that Sony Vegas had the capability
to author surround sound, so I downloaded the free trial of Media Studio 13
Suite and started fooling around. Turns out you can only render it to DVD,
not Blu-ray, which has some effect on length, and it seems to be able to do
only 256 kbps, but it IS discrete surround sound and the levels play just
right and for most of my material it does add to the experience. With
surround sound there is a definite possibility of diluting or distorting
your front sound, but if you keep levels sensible it can be good.

The Vegas Movie Studio is all that is needed because it can burn the DVD
right within the edit program, but the controls are a little strange and
crude and not as flexible as in Audition 5.5 - but the good news is that I
can edit in Audition and then render the individual tracks to a 5.1 mix with
separate mono tracks, then import those tracks already mixed to taste into
Vegas, and they slip right into the proper channels ready for burning! This
is a wonderful thing and I am going to see if that gives me chapter points
at each song or separate track that I can flip to on my DVD player just like
selecting tracks on a CD. Probably can.n

Anyone else out there fooling with surround sound? I hope this saves you the
expense of Surcode or other very expensive program just to edit audio.

Gary Eickmeier

[geoff]

On 4/05/2016 4:32 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
> The journey has ended! I am there! Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround AC3. In a
> discussion with Ethan Winer, he suggested that Sony Vegas had the capability
> to author surround sound, so I downloaded the free trial of Media Studio 13
> Suite and started fooling around. Turns out you can only render it to DVD,
> not Blu-ray, which has some effect on length, and it seems to be able to do
> only 256 kbps, but it IS discrete surround sound and the levels play just
> right and for most of my material it does add to the experience. With
> surround sound there is a definite possibility of diluting or distorting
> your front sound, but if you keep levels sensible it can be good.
>
> The Vegas Movie Studio is all that is needed because it can burn the DVD
> right within the edit program, but the controls are a little strange and
> crude and not as flexible as in Audition 5.5 - but the good news is that I
> can edit in Audition and then render the individual tracks to a 5.1 mix with
> separate mono tracks, then import those tracks already mixed to taste into
> Vegas, and they slip right into the proper channels ready for burning! This
> is a wonderful thing and I am going to see if that gives me chapter points
> at each song or separate track that I can flip to on my DVD player just like
> selecting tracks on a CD. Probably can.n
>
> Anyone else out there fooling with surround sound? I hope this saves you the
> expense of Surcode or other very expensive program just to edit audio.
>
> Gary Eickmeier
>
>


I understand that Movie Studio is pretty good, but the full VegasPro is
even better - have been using as a DAW since V3.

And if are into the video side, Vegas Pro does Blu-Ray,, and even 4K now.

geoff
geoff

[JackA]

On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 12:30:20 AM UTC-4, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
> The journey has ended! I am there! Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround AC3. In a
> discussion with Ethan Winer, he suggested that Sony Vegas had the capability
> to author surround sound, so I downloaded the free trial of Media Studio 13
> Suite and started fooling around. Turns out you can only render it to DVD,
> not Blu-ray, which has some effect on length, and it seems to be able to do
> only 256 kbps, but it IS discrete surround sound and the levels play just
> right and for most of my material it does add to the experience. With
> surround sound there is a definite possibility of diluting or distorting
> your front sound, but if you keep levels sensible it can be good.
>
> The Vegas Movie Studio is all that is needed because it can burn the DVD
> right within the edit program, but the controls are a little strange and
> crude and not as flexible as in Audition 5.5 - but the good news is that I
> can edit in Audition and then render the individual tracks to a 5.1 mix with
> separate mono tracks, then import those tracks already mixed to taste into
> Vegas, and they slip right into the proper channels ready for burning! This
> is a wonderful thing and I am going to see if that gives me chapter points
> at each song or separate track that I can flip to on my DVD player just like
> selecting tracks on a CD. Probably can.n
>
> Anyone else out there fooling with surround sound? I hope this saves you the
> expense of Surcode or other very expensive program just to edit audio.
>
> Gary Eickmeier

Gary, great job!!

I'm more familiar with, author, Ethan Winer from my computer programming days. Never knew he was "into" music, until he surfaced on a internet search related to music.

Jack

[Tobiah]

On 05/03/2016 09:32 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
> The journey has ended! I am there! Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround AC3.

Wow, so it took some great effort to make this happen? Does this
have something to do with the big companies wanting to be the only
possible source of content? And you really have to burn a disk to
get the audio into your receiver?


Tobiah

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Tobiah" > wrote in message
...
> On 05/03/2016 09:32 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
>> The journey has ended! I am there! Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround AC3.
>
> Wow, so it took some great effort to make this happen? Does this
> have something to do with the big companies wanting to be the only
> possible source of content? And you really have to burn a disk to
> get the audio into your receiver?
>
>
> Tobiah

It's just an unusual process to need to do, so there is little information
on it. I do suppose the movie guys would have a need to do it, but they will
be spending thousands on professional film industry software and hardware.
As for the discs, I am not interested in just doing a kludge process to get
audio only material through my system, I want to be able to put it on a
medium that most everyone can play.

Gary

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
k...

> Subscribe to Sony's mailings and ride their upgrade/crossgrade train ...
> that is what I did in 2009. Now at Movie Studio 13, next stop when toy
> money are available is Vegas Pro ... but it is handy for video to have
> been able to get a ride on the Magix upgrade train too .... nice
> stabilizer :) ... software generally ... more like I'm compatible with
> Vegas. But then in the old days I used to have multiple word processors
> because some are better for some things.
>

>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen

Yes, worth a try. But you know Peter the real question is what is it worth
to go to surround sound - especially if it limits the quality of the basic
signal, like 256 kb/s. I would much rather continue to work with MS stereo
than crummy surround sound. I just mainly wanted to try it, but didn't
realize about the quality limitations.

Gary

[Scott Dorsey]

Gary Eickmeier > wrote:
>"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
>
>Yes, worth a try. But you know Peter the real question is what is it worth
>to go to surround sound - especially if it limits the quality of the basic
>signal, like 256 kb/s. I would much rather continue to work with MS stereo
>than crummy surround sound. I just mainly wanted to try it, but didn't
>realize about the quality limitations.

That's a limitation only of the AC-3 encoding. That's why DVD-A is a win.
But you said you didn't want DVD-A.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

Gary Eikmeier wrote: "
"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
k...

> Subscribe to Sony's mailings and ride their upgrade/crossgrade train ...
> that is what I did in 2009. Now at Movie Studio 13, next stop when toy
> money are available is Vegas Pro ... but it is handy for video to have
> been able to get a ride on the Magix upgrade train too .... nice
> stabilizer :) ... software generally ... more like I'm compatible with
> Vegas. But then in the old days I used to have multiple word processors
> because some are better for some things.
>

>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen

Yes, worth a try. But you know Peter the real question is what is it worth
to go to surround sound - especially if it limits the quality of the basic
signal, like 256 kb/s. I would much rather continue to work with MS stereo
than crummy surround sound. I just mainly wanted to try it, but didn't
realize about the quality limitations.

Gary "

If the music is well written and arranged and the sound
isn't over-engineered then it should sound good even on
lossy AC-3 down to 256kb/s. There's things that can
be done to the sound that'll make it sound a lot worse
than a low bitrate can by itself.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 08-05-2016 21:59, wrote:

> If the music is well written and arranged and the sound
> isn't over-engineered then it should sound good even on
> lossy AC-3 down to 256kb/s. There's things that can
> be done to the sound that'll make it sound a lot worse
> than a low bitrate can by itself.

AC3 is not good for violin sound if at all for anything, it is in fact
so miserably boring on real musical instruments that it is strongly
recommendable to always put music DVD audio on the DVD as a properly
(whatever that is) dithered 16 bit wave-file with 48 kHz sample rate or
better.

Note: It is in my opinion a better choice to properly (whatever that is)
dither to 16 bits than leaving it to the playback implement.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Gary Eickmeier > wrote:
>>"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
>>
>>Yes, worth a try. But you know Peter the real question is what is it worth
>>to go to surround sound - especially if it limits the quality of the basic
>>signal, like 256 kb/s. I would much rather continue to work with MS stereo
>>than crummy surround sound. I just mainly wanted to try it, but didn't
>>realize about the quality limitations.
>
> That's a limitation only of the AC-3 encoding. That's why DVD-A is a win.
> But you said you didn't want DVD-A.
> --scott

Scott - I will read up on it, but probably DVD-A would be another hill to
climb in my quest for surround sound. Do you know if it can be produced by
amateurs with simple equipment such as Sony Vegas? I have done DTS before,
and it sounded OK, but now I have lost the program that did it. Maybe Vegas
Pro would do it all.

Gary

[geoff]

On 10/05/2016 2:29 p.m., Gary Eickmeier wrote:
> tt
> Scott - I will read up on it, but probably DVD-A would be another hill to
> climb in my quest for surround sound. Do you know if it can be produced by
> amateurs with simple equipment such as Sony Vegas? I have done DTS before,
> and it sounded OK, but now I have lost the program that did it. Maybe Vegas
> Pro would do it all.
>
> Gary
>
>

Sony Vegas Pro is not 'simple equipment'. It is used by many who 'know'
in preference to the offerings from the likes of Adobe, Avid, Apple,
Magix, etc.

You can download the free demo version at
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/trials/vegaspro

Also an excellent DAW (if you don't need MIDI). No, I don't work for them !

geoff

[Gary Eickmeier]

"geoff" > wrote in message
...

> Sony Vegas Pro is not 'simple equipment'. It is used by many who 'know'
> in preference to the offerings from the likes of Adobe, Avid, Apple,
> Magix, etc.
>
> You can download the free demo version at
> http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/trials/vegaspro
>
> Also an excellent DAW (if you don't need MIDI). No, I don't work for them
> !
>
> geoff

Thanks Geoff!

Gary

[Scott Dorsey]

Gary Eickmeier > wrote:
>"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>> Gary Eickmeier > wrote:
>>>"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>Yes, worth a try. But you know Peter the real question is what is it worth
>>>to go to surround sound - especially if it limits the quality of the basic
>>>signal, like 256 kb/s. I would much rather continue to work with MS stereo
>>>than crummy surround sound. I just mainly wanted to try it, but didn't
>>>realize about the quality limitations.
>>
>> That's a limitation only of the AC-3 encoding. That's why DVD-A is a win.
>> But you said you didn't want DVD-A.
>
>Scott - I will read up on it, but probably DVD-A would be another hill to
>climb in my quest for surround sound. Do you know if it can be produced by
>amateurs with simple equipment such as Sony Vegas? I have done DTS before,
>and it sounded OK, but now I have lost the program that did it. Maybe Vegas
>Pro would do it all.

You can directly author DVD-As with a number of tools that I mentioned
at the beginning of this thread, including DVD Audio Tools which is free.
And early on in this thread I recommended Discwelder Bronze by Minnetonka
Software which seems to have become something of an industry standard at a
very low price point.

It is much easier than fiddling around with AC-3 or dts compression.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."