Panning in pop music

[Gil Orms]

there isn't any is there?

leastways, I can't detect it

--
gilorms.com

[John Williamson]

On 21/01/2016 10:04, Gil Orms wrote:
> there isn't any is there?
>
> leastways, I can't detect it
>
There's a lot of panpot stereo in it.

On the other hand, if you mean moving stuff round by using the panpots
while it's playing, why bother?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[[email protected]]

John Williamson wrote: .
"On the other hand, if you mean moving stuff round by using the panpots
while it's playing, why bother?

--
Tciao for Now!

John. "


Guess you aren't a fan of Zeppelin or Hendrix. May not
represent real life realism, but it is cool to listen to. :)

[John Williamson]

On 21/01/2016 12:06, wrote:
> Guess you aren't a fan of Zeppelin or Hendrix. May not
> represent real life realism, but it is cool to listen to.:)

I enjoy some Zep and Hendrix on its own terms, just as I enjoy some
chamber music on its terms.

But for most popular music, moving stuff round the sound stage during a
track is just a distracting effect.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Gil Orms wrote:
>
> there isn't any is there?
>
> leastways, I can't detect it
>
>
** Pink Floyd used it a fair bit, also the Animals on their " The Twain Shall Meet " album 1968.

Have a listen to the third track " Closer to the Truth".


..... Phil

[JackA]

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 5:05:03 AM UTC-5, Gil Orms wrote:
> there isn't any is there?
>
> leastways, I can't detect it

People who mix music are very boring people. Once long hair, but now they can't shave! So, little little if any panning.
Welcome to LSD - Lazy Stereo Dunces!

Jack

>
> --
> gilorms.com

[JackA]

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 7:06:20 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> John Williamson wrote: .
> "On the other hand, if you mean moving stuff round by using the panpots
> while it's playing, why bother?
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John. "
>
>
> Guess you aren't a fan of Zeppelin or Hendrix. May not
> represent real life realism, but it is cool to listen to. :)

No panning here!...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/wholelottalovetry.mp3

Jack :)

[[email protected]]

John Williamson wrote: "On 21/01/2016 12:06, wrote:
> Guess you aren't a fan of Zeppelin or Hendrix. May not
> represent real life realism, but it is cool to listen to.:)

I enjoy some Zep and Hendrix on its own terms, just as I enjoy some
chamber music on its terms.

But for most popular music, moving stuff round the sound stage during a
track is just a distracting effect.
- show quoted text -"

If such movement remains the exception,
that is, done with reasonable restraint
instead of all the time, in every song, then
it is less a distraction and more an
art form.

[John Williamson]

On 21/01/2016 14:12, wrote:
> John Williamson wrote: "On 21/01/2016 12:06, wrote:
>> Guess you aren't a fan of Zeppelin or Hendrix. May not
>> represent real life realism, but it is cool to listen to.:)
>
> I enjoy some Zep and Hendrix on its own terms, just as I enjoy some
> chamber music on its terms.
>
> But for most popular music, moving stuff round the sound stage during a
> track is just a distracting effect.
> - show quoted text -"
>
> If such movement remains the exception,
> that is, done with reasonable restraint
> instead of all the time, in every song, then
> it is less a distraction and more an
> art form.
>
Yup. I had great fun converting one mono comedy single to digital by
adding a cross pan to it at just the right place. It really helped the
concept. :-)

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Scott Dorsey]

>John Williamson wrote: "On 21/01/2016 12:06, wrote:
>
>But for most popular music, moving stuff round the sound stage during a
>track is just a distracting effect.

It's not just for popular music. There's a Miles Davis album where he
is panned into the center every time he does a solo. The effect is artificial
and doesn't sound at all like he's actually walking up to the front. It
just makes me cringe.

On the other hand, there have been times when weird soundstage changes have
been used to good effect, such as in "Just a Poke" by Sweet Smoke. Artificial
but artistic.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Gil Orms wrote:
> there isn't any is there?
>
> leastways, I can't detect it
>
> --
> gilorms.com
>


It varies.

--
Les Cargill

[JackA]

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 5:05:03 AM UTC-5, Gil Orms wrote:
> there isn't any is there?
>
> leastways, I can't detect it
>
> --
> gilorms.com

I wanted to add, not many are "into" stereo, I'd guess 15%. Why stereo mixing went sour when tape recording tracks increased!

Jack

[Barry B]

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 10:16:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> It's not just for popular music. There's a Miles Davis album where he
> is panned into the center every time he does a solo. The effect is artificial
> and doesn't sound at all like he's actually walking up to the front. It
> just makes me cringe.

Which album, Scott, if you don't mind me asking? Remix or reissue? I've got most of his recordings, but never noticed that effect. I'd like to check it out.

Thanks..

Barry

[[email protected]]

Important thing to remember here: The average Joe/Jane
is not going to notice "stereo" or moving back and forth
when they listen to music.

IE: In Joel's "River Of Dreams" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fo_vn_Ilsu8
at about 3:11 the left and right channels just flip sides. Best
heard through headphones. Like, what was that about?
Did Billy sign off on that, or even notice it? Well most
consumers probably won't, because the music is mainly
background to whatever they are doing - cleaning the toilet,
cooking, raking leaves, sex, etc etc...

One of my grade school bus drivers listened to a R&B station,
for years, through only the right speaker. Talking '80s
R&B. Now when I listen to some of those tracks on my
home stereo or via my DT-880s, I can't believe what I
missed back then! Guess the driver didn't want the
drivers side speaker distracting from her duties.

[Nil[_2_]]

On 26 Jan 2016, Barry B > wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> Which album, Scott, if you don't mind me asking? Remix or
> reissue? I've got most of his recordings, but never noticed that
> effect. I'd like to check it out.

Many Miles Davis albums are heavily edited and heavily treated with
effects. I never noticed one where the trumpet changed positions like
was described, but I wouldn't be at all surprised. The goal was not to
get a natural live sound on records like Bitches Brew, and extreme
panning like that wouldn't have been considered a mistake.

[Barry B]

On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 9:41:27 AM UTC-5, Nil wrote:

>
> Many Miles Davis albums are heavily edited and heavily treated with
> effects. I never noticed one where the trumpet changed positions like
> was described, but I wouldn't be at all surprised. The goal was not to
> get a natural live sound on records like Bitches Brew, and extreme
> panning like that wouldn't have been considered a mistake.

I'm hip, Nil.. by the time Miles got into and past the "Silent Way" era, playing his trumpet through a pedal, etc., all bets were off. I thought that maybe Scott was referring to an earlier recording, maybe one of the Teo or Rudy sessions.

[Scott Dorsey]

Barry B > wrote:
>On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 10:16:54 AM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> It's not just for popular music. There's a Miles Davis album where he
>> is panned into the center every time he does a solo. The effect is artificial
>> and doesn't sound at all like he's actually walking up to the front. It
>> just makes me cringe.
>
>Which album, Scott, if you don't mind me asking? Remix or reissue? I've got most of his recordings, but never noticed that effect. I'd like to check it out.

Oh, now I have to go find it... it's one of the later ones, and it's not
a remix.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Barry B]

On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 10:16:26 AM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Oh, now I have to go find it... it's one of the later ones, and it's not
> a remix.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Most of my stuff is Silent Way and back. I do have Tutu, Amandla, Aura, Tutu, Doo-Bop, and Live Around the World. I admired what he did in the 70s and forward, but it departed from my focus so I didn't acquire as much of his work from that period. Still curious, but don't go to any trouble, Scott..

Barry

[Nil[_2_]]

On 26 Jan 2016, Barry B > wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> I'm hip, Nil.. by the time Miles got into and past the "Silent
> Way" era, playing his trumpet through a pedal, etc., all bets were
> off. I thought that maybe Scott was referring to an earlier
> recording, maybe one of the Teo or Rudy sessions.

Could be. If so, maybe they were two different sessions edited
together. Or maybe it was one of the many wacky experiments in early
stereo, like, to "put the spotlight" on the soloist.

Much as I love the record, I'm still distracted by the way the reverb
comes and goes on Coltrane's "Blue Trane" album.

[JackA]

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 5:05:03 AM UTC-5, Gil Orms wrote:
> there isn't any is there?
>
> leastways, I can't detect it
>
> --
> gilorms.com

Pop Music 60s-70's

Some guitar work panning, not sure why, midway...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/reflections.mp3
I guessing you might call the vocals as panning...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/witch.mp3

Plus, it takes time to pre-process the mixing. Not like man has a hundred hands available on a mixing board.

Jack

[geoff]

On 27/01/2016 8:18 AM, JackA wrote:
> On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 5:05:03 AM UTC-5, Gil Orms wrote:
>> there isn't any is there?
>>
>> leastways, I can't detect it
>>
>> --
>> gilorms.com
>
> Pop Music 60s-70's
>
> Some guitar work panning, not sure why, midway...
> http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/reflections.mp3
> I guessing you might call the vocals as panning...
> http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/witch.mp3
>
> Plus, it takes time to pre-process the mixing. Not like man has a hundred hands available on a mixing board.
>
> Jack
>


Do you think that 'panning' necessarily (or even 'often') involves the
localisation of a sound actually moving ???!!!

geoff

[JackA]

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 2:05:33 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
> On 27/01/2016 8:18 AM, JackA wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 5:05:03 AM UTC-5, Gil Orms wrote:
> >> there isn't any is there?
> >>
> >> leastways, I can't detect it
> >>
> >> --
> >> gilorms.com
> >
> > Pop Music 60s-70's
> >
> > Some guitar work panning, not sure why, midway...
> > http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/reflections.mp3
> > I guessing you might call the vocals as panning...
> > http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/witch.mp3
> >
> > Plus, it takes time to pre-process the mixing. Not like man has a hundred hands available on a mixing board.
> >
> > Jack
> >
>
>
> Do you think that 'panning' necessarily (or even 'often') involves the
> localisation of a sound actually moving ???!!!

I'll answer that shortly. In the meantime, interpret this, from a once popular male artist from Bang Records, 60's:

Sony CD: "This previous lack of music accuracy [previously published] was due to the shortcomings of both analog music presentation and radio broadcasting".

Are they just nicely sating that Brooks Arthur (studio engineer) fouled the sound mixes?! From what others have publish of Red Bird and Blue Cat Records, I'd say YES.

The artist?...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/browneyedgirl-av.mp3

Control Tower studio talk above: What does "Rolling on six" mean? The tape is already "rolling", it recorded Arthur. Clarification, please!

I was amazed to read Mile Davis has Jazz panning!!??

For music accuracy, no, I feel panning isn't such a great idea, unless you alter amplitude as whatever is panned! What made Pink Floyd popular? When you're "high" (I'm told) the sounds coming from everywhere is freaky.

Jack
>
> geoff

[[email protected]]

geoff wrote: "- show quoted text -
Do you think that 'panning' necessarily (or even 'often') involves the
localisation of a sound actually moving ???!!!

geoff "

Not sure who this is aimed at, but no, I know
that panning does not always mean stuff is
moving around. In most cases, elements
are panned to a certain static place between
far left and far right, and are left there or
adjusted during post.

I know there is a correct term for what happened
during the middle of Zeppelin "Whole Lotta
Love", it just does not come to my mind.

[Nil[_2_]]

On 27 Jan 2016, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> Not sure who this is aimed at,

How can you not when he CLEARLY designates in his post who he is
responding to?

> I know there is a correct term for what happened
> during the middle of Zeppelin "Whole Lotta
> Love", it just does not come to my mind.

Hint: it's rhymes with "panning in pop music".

[[email protected]]

Nil wrote: "On 27 Jan 2016, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> Not sure who this is aimed at,

How can you not when he CLEARLY designates in his post who he is
responding to?

> I know there is a correct term for what happened
> during the middle of Zeppelin "Whole Lotta
> Love", it just does not come to my mind.

Hint: it's rhymes with "panning in pop music". "

BUTT OUT.

Let GEOFF answer my question.

[Nil[_2_]]

On 27 Jan 2016, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> Nil wrote: "On 27 Jan 2016, wrote in
> rec.audio.pro:
>
>> Not sure who this is aimed at,
>
> How can you not when he CLEARLY designates in his post who he is
> responding to?
>
>> I know there is a correct term for what happened
>> during the middle of Zeppelin "Whole Lotta
>> Love", it just does not come to my mind.
>
> Hint: it's rhymes with "panning in pop music". "
>
> BUTT OUT.

You seem to be under the impression that you are engaged in a private
conversation. Hint: you are not.

> Let GEOFF answer my question.

But of course! I wouldn't dream of stopping him, even if it were
possible. Hint: it is not.

[geoff]

On 28/01/2016 4:26 PM, wrote:
> Nil wrote: "On 27 Jan 2016, wrote in rec.audio.pro:
>

>
> BUTT OUT.
>
> Let GEOFF answer my question.
>


It should have been abundantly clear I was replying to JackAss. Maybe
get a real newsreader client and avoid using Google Groups, if that's
what somehow made it vague.

geoff

[geoff]

On 28/01/2016 12:26 PM, JackA wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 2:05:33 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote:

>
> I was amazed to read Mile Davis has Jazz panning!!??
>
> For music accuracy, no, I feel panning isn't such a great idea,
> unless you alter amplitude as whatever is panned! What made Pink
> Floyd popular? When you're "high" (I'm told) the sounds coming from
> everywhere is freaky.
>
> Jack

OK, so clearly you have little understanding of panning, along with
pretty much everything else.

geoff

[None]

< thekkkhhhhmaaaaah @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1edb23ca-91c9-4509-816f-
> BUTT OUT.
>
> Let GEOFF answer my question.

But according to the newgroup's resident dumb ****, geoff and Nil are
the same person. Dumb ****.

[Gil Orms]

On Tuesday, 26 January 2016 19:18:27 UTC, JackA wrote:
> On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 5:05:03 AM UTC-5, Gil Orms wrote:
> > there isn't any is there?
> >
> > leastways, I can't detect it
> >
> > --
> > gilorms.com
>
> Pop Music 60s-70's

That's my point.

I mean today's charts seem to use little/no panning i.e. what comes out of my right headphone is virtually identical to what comes out of the left headphone.

Which is why I was so annoyed that I took all this advice about spreading the instruments across both speakers because when I heard one of my pieces played on the radio it was *not* what I'd intended.

--
gilorms.com

[geoff]

On 28/01/2016 10:47 PM, Gil Orms wrote:
> On Tuesday, 26 January 2016 19:18:27 UTC, JackA wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 5:05:03 AM UTC-5, Gil Orms wrote:
>>> there isn't any is there?
>>>
>>> leastways, I can't detect it
>>>
>>> -- gilorms.com
>>
>> Pop Music 60s-70's
>
> That's my point.
>
> I mean today's charts seem to use little/no panning i.e. what comes
> out of my right headphone is virtually identical to what comes out of
> the left headphone.
>
> Which is why I was so annoyed that I took all this advice about
> spreading the instruments across both speakers because when I heard
> one of my pieces played on the radio it was *not* what I'd intended.
>
> -- gilorms.com
>

Mono station ? Else what you actually did was not what you had attempted.


geoff

[Gil Orms]

On Thursday, 28 January 2016 09:57:15 UTC, geoff wrote:
> On 28/01/2016 10:47 PM, Gil Orms wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 26 January 2016 19:18:27 UTC, JackA wrote:
> >> On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 5:05:03 AM UTC-5, Gil Orms wrote:
> >>> there isn't any is there?
> >>>
> >>> leastways, I can't detect it
> >>>
> >>> -- gilorms.com
> >>
> >> Pop Music 60s-70's
> >
> > That's my point.
> >
> > I mean today's charts seem to use little/no panning i.e. what comes
> > out of my right headphone is virtually identical to what comes out of
> > the left headphone.
> >
> > Which is why I was so annoyed that I took all this advice about
> > spreading the instruments across both speakers because when I heard
> > one of my pieces played on the radio it was *not* what I'd intended.
> >
> > -- gilorms.com
> >
>
> Mono station ? Else what you actually did was not what you had attempted.

Effectively

what happened was I was in the kitchen standing to one side of my ghetto blaster so I effectively got half of what I was supposed to hear

--
gilorms.com

[John Williamson]

On 28/01/2016 10:29, Gil Orms wrote:
> On Thursday, 28 January 2016 09:57:15 UTC, geoff wrote:
>> On 28/01/2016 10:47 PM, Gil Orms wrote:

>>> Which is why I was so annoyed that I took all this advice about
>>> spreading the instruments across both speakers because when I heard
>>> one of my pieces played on the radio it was *not* what I'd intended.
>> Mono station ? Else what you actually did was not what you had attempted.
>
> Effectively
>
> what happened was I was in the kitchen standing to one side of my ghetto blaster so I effectively got half of what I was supposed to hear
>
So, a failure in your part of the playback chain, which showed up a
weakness in the mix you hadn't checked for.

At least you now know what you need to do to improve your next mix.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[JackA]

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 2:59:49 AM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
> On 28/01/2016 12:26 PM, JackA wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 2:05:33 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
>
> >
> > I was amazed to read Mile Davis has Jazz panning!!??
> >
> > For music accuracy, no, I feel panning isn't such a great idea,
> > unless you alter amplitude as whatever is panned! What made Pink
> > Floyd popular? When you're "high" (I'm told) the sounds coming from
> > everywhere is freaky.
> >
> > Jack
>
> OK, so clearly you have little understanding of panning, along with
> pretty much everything else.

I'm saddened that I'm not an expert in panning, after hearing your extraordinary stereo mixes!!!


Jack

>
> geoff

[JackA]

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 10:26:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Nil wrote: "On 27 Jan 2016, wrote in rec.audio.pro:
>
> > Not sure who this is aimed at,
>
> How can you not when he CLEARLY designates in his post who he is
> responding to?
>
> > I know there is a correct term for what happened
> > during the middle of Zeppelin "Whole Lotta
> > Love", it just does not come to my mind.
>
> Hint: it's rhymes with "panning in pop music". "
>
> BUTT OUT.
>
> Let GEOFF answer my question.

He might be awhile, he has to purchase another dozen headphones that reproduces panning well.

Jack

[Nil[_2_]]

On 28 Jan 2016, "None" > wrote in rec.audio.pro:

>< thekkkhhhhmaaaaah @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1edb23ca-91c9-4509-816f-
>> BUTT OUT.
>>
>> Let GEOFF answer my question.
>
> But according to the newgroup's resident dumb ****, geoff and Nil
> are the same person. Dumb ****.

Oh! I though you and me were the same person! Damn, this is all so
confusing.

[JackA]

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 4:47:36 AM UTC-5, Gil Orms wrote:
> On Tuesday, 26 January 2016 19:18:27 UTC, JackA wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 5:05:03 AM UTC-5, Gil Orms wrote:
> > > there isn't any is there?
> > >
> > > leastways, I can't detect it
> > >
> > > --
> > > gilorms.com
> >
> > Pop Music 60s-70's
>
> That's my point.
>
> I mean today's charts seem to use little/no panning i.e. what comes out of my right headphone is virtually identical to what comes out of the left headphone.
>
> Which is why I was so annoyed that I took all this advice about spreading the instruments across both speakers because when I heard one of my pieces played on the radio it was *not* what I'd intended.

As tape recorders advanced with multiple tracks, away went the thrill of Stereophonic sound. But, in my opinion, away went the thrill of High Quality sound, too. I'd have to say, there was more pride in sound quality when the Big record companies used to compete. Today's "music" is near monophonic.

I was surprised to find multi-tracks for Billy Joel and Paul McCartney songs. The songs sound so much better when you mix them yourself.

But, let's face facts, the majority of society isn't concerned with sound quality, so you get what you get, sadly.

Jack
>
> --
> gilorms.com

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff > wrote:
>
>OK, so clearly you have little understanding of panning, along with
>pretty much everything else.

Panning is what Ken "Professor" Philmore does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVCUdjI0CLk

It's a terrible mix, likely a PA feed.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[None]

"Nil" > wrote in message
> Oh! I though you and me were the same person! Damn, this is all so
> confusing.

.... see how they run like pigs from a gun.