Windows 10 and Legacy Help Files

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
installable under it.

Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
this.
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Frank Stearns]

Randy Yates > writes:

>It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
>installable under it.

>Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
>this.

They just keep shooting themselves in the foot. I'm looking at some way to use the
win explorer from XP in Win7, or perhaps some 3rd party win explorer.

Why? Because they've broken the way regular expressions work in name searches.
(Well, actually, they never had it quite right to begin with, but it's gotten
seriously worse.)

Example: If you have filename "abcdef_123.txt", the following search patterns will
NOT return a hit on that file (but will work in XP and any UNIX system, of course;
well, in XP you select the search option "contains" the search item, you don't
necessarily use the wildcards, but it's the same idea):

*cde*
*23*

But these will work in Win7:

a*
ab*
abc* (etc)
1*
12* (etc)

The concept of an alphabetic substring search is gone. Only start-of-name, or
substrings bounded by non-alphanumerics, will return a hit.

Hugely annoying. And unbelievable. Unbelievably bad... (I don't suppose they fixed
this in win10? No? I didn't think so.)

Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[JackA]

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, Frank Stearns wrote:
> Randy Yates > writes:
>
> >It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
> >installable under it.
>
> >Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
> >this.
>
> They just keep shooting themselves in the foot. I'm looking at some way to use the
> win explorer from XP in Win7, or perhaps some 3rd party win explorer.
>
> Why? Because they've broken the way regular expressions work in name searches.
> (Well, actually, they never had it quite right to begin with, but it's gotten
> seriously worse.)
>
> Example: If you have filename "abcdef_123.txt", the following search patterns will
> NOT return a hit on that file (but will work in XP and any UNIX system, of course;
> well, in XP you select the search option "contains" the search item, you don't
> necessarily use the wildcards, but it's the same idea):
>
> *cde*
> *23*
>
> But these will work in Win7:
>
> a*
> ab*
> abc* (etc)
> 1*
> 12* (etc)
>
> The concept of an alphabetic substring search is gone. Only start-of-name, or
> substrings bounded by non-alphanumerics, will return a hit.

Think place-holders "??????" work, too. They can't make up their minds!

Randy, good luck!!

Jack
>
> Hugely annoying. And unbelievable. Unbelievably bad... (I don't suppose they fixed
> this in win10? No? I didn't think so.)
>
> Frank
> Mobile Audio
>
> --
> .

[John Williamson]

On 15/09/2015 17:17, Randy Yates wrote:
> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
> installable under it.
>
> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
> this.
>
This may help:-

http://download.cnet.com/Help-Explorer-Viewer/3000-6675_4-10666661.htm

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[John Williamson]

On 15/09/2015 17:17, Randy Yates wrote:
> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
> installable under it.
>
> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
> this.
>
Another possibility that I've had work with some programs wriutten for
XP that Windows 7 and higher won't run is to run the installer in
Windows XP mode, which is done by right clicking on the item and
selecting that compatibility mode under "troubleshoot compatibility".
That got Outlook 2002 running under Windows 7....

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[JackA]

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 3:47:06 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> On 15/09/2015 17:17, Randy Yates wrote:
> > It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
> > installable under it.
> >
> > Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
> > this.
> >
> Another possibility that I've had work with some programs wriutten for
> XP that Windows 7 and higher won't run is to run the installer in
> Windows XP mode, which is done by right clicking on the item and
> selecting that compatibility mode under "troubleshoot compatibility".
> That got Outlook 2002 running under Windows 7....

"XP Mode" works fine for me in Win 7. Need if you have 16 bit apps.

Jack
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

[John Williamson]

On 15/09/2015 20:51, JackA wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 3:47:06 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 15/09/2015 17:17, Randy Yates wrote:
>>> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
>>> installable under it.
>>>
>>> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
>>> this.
>>>
>> Another possibility that I've had work with some programs wriutten for
>> XP that Windows 7 and higher won't run is to run the installer in
>> Windows XP mode, which is done by right clicking on the item and
>> selecting that compatibility mode under "troubleshoot compatibility".
>> That got Outlook 2002 running under Windows 7....
>
> "XP Mode" works fine for me in Win 7. Need if you have 16 bit apps.
>
My real point is that it's sometimes only the installer that checks the
Windows version, and the program doesn't need it to run. On the other
hand, if you're still running 16 bit applications, you must have some
quite unusual needs, and the last 16 bit program I ran was a DOS game in
a virtual machine. Then again, on this 64 bit machine, that's the only
option I have.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[JackA]

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 3:57:31 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> On 15/09/2015 20:51, JackA wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 3:47:06 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> >> On 15/09/2015 17:17, Randy Yates wrote:
> >>> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
> >>> installable under it.
> >>>
> >>> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
> >>> this.
> >>>
> >> Another possibility that I've had work with some programs wriutten for
> >> XP that Windows 7 and higher won't run is to run the installer in
> >> Windows XP mode, which is done by right clicking on the item and
> >> selecting that compatibility mode under "troubleshoot compatibility".
> >> That got Outlook 2002 running under Windows 7....
> >
> > "XP Mode" works fine for me in Win 7. Need if you have 16 bit apps.
> >
> My real point is that it's sometimes only the installer that checks the
> Windows version, and the program doesn't need it to run. On the other
> hand, if you're still running 16 bit applications, you must have some
> quite unusual needs, and the last 16 bit program I ran was a DOS game in
> a virtual machine. Then again, on this 64 bit machine, that's the only
> option I have.

John, I lag so far behind and FEAR changing OS's due to new problems!!
While everyone was on XO, I was still using Win ME! Didn't even need Anti-V, since it was far out of date! Personally, I see computers going slower and slower.
Not sure why many quickly jump on the new OS bandwagon. I'd first see if it has any benefits for me. Generally, it doesn't, just gimmicks. And Updates, geewiz, M$ should pay us for the time we spend updating OS. Ridiculous.

Jack
>
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

JackA > writes:
> [...]
> Not sure why many quickly jump on the new OS bandwagon. I'd first see
> if it has any benefits for me.

Don't accuse ME of this. I haven't purchased an operating system in
about 10 years. I was FORCED to buy Win10 by a) the unavailability of
tools I need for work in linux (namely, the PE Micro debugger for the
Freescale Coldfire using a PE Micro USB Multilink BDM), and b) the
complete breakdown of my old WinXP system due to forced obsolescence.

I'm a linux dude. I haven't used a Windows OS as my main (non-virtual)
machine since 2006.
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[JackA]

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 5:58:01 PM UTC-4, Randy Yates wrote:
> JackA > writes:
> > [...]
> > Not sure why many quickly jump on the new OS bandwagon. I'd first see
> > if it has any benefits for me.
>
> Don't accuse ME of this. I haven't purchased an operating system in
> about 10 years. I was FORCED to buy Win10 by a) the unavailability of
> tools I need for work in linux (namely, the PE Micro debugger for the
> Freescale Coldfire using a PE Micro USB Multilink BDM), and b) the
> complete breakdown of my old WinXP system due to forced obsolescence.
>
> I'm a linux dude. I haven't used a Windows OS as my main (non-virtual)
> machine since 2006.

Randy, I wasn't pointing at you. Both Tim and BobbyM in another newsgroup recently upgraded, but not sure why.

I bought a nice Toshiba laptop, started it up and there was Win 8, no pamphlet or quick start guide how to use it. To me, it was like a toy, not an operating system. Not sure why M$ keeps pumping out crap. Seems they ask for no user input and dream up nightmares to keep afloat.

But, on YouTube, someone mentioned about returning to Linux after loading Win 10. Maybe Linux is where I want to go.

Jack
> --
> Randy Yates
> Digital Signal Labs
> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[geoff]

On 16/09/2015 10:11 a.m., JackA wrote:
> Randy, I wasn't pointing at you. Both Tim and BobbyM in another
> newsgroup recently upgraded, but not sure why. I bought a nice Toshiba
> laptop, started it up and there was Win 8, no pamphlet or quick start
> guide how to use it. To me, it was like a toy, not an operating
> system. Not sure why M$ keeps pumping out crap. Seems they ask for no
> user input and dream up nightmares to keep afloat. But, on YouTube,
> someone mentioned about returning to Linux after loading Win 10. Maybe
> Linux is where I want to go. Jack
>> --
>> Randy Yates
>> Digital Signal Labs
>> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com


Upgrade Win 8 to Win10 to get rid of the actual problematical stuff.

Then download ClassicShell so you can make Win10 look and behave pretty
much like the WinMe you know and love. And then you'll be able to run
software from this decade too !

geoff

[JackA]

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 6:47:20 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> On 16/09/2015 10:11 a.m., JackA wrote:
> > Randy, I wasn't pointing at you. Both Tim and BobbyM in another
> > newsgroup recently upgraded, but not sure why. I bought a nice Toshiba
> > laptop, started it up and there was Win 8, no pamphlet or quick start
> > guide how to use it. To me, it was like a toy, not an operating
> > system. Not sure why M$ keeps pumping out crap. Seems they ask for no
> > user input and dream up nightmares to keep afloat. But, on YouTube,
> > someone mentioned about returning to Linux after loading Win 10. Maybe
> > Linux is where I want to go. Jack
> >> --
> >> Randy Yates
> >> Digital Signal Labs
> >> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>
>
> Upgrade Win 8 to Win10 to get rid of the actual problematical stuff.
>
> Then download ClassicShell so you can make Win10 look and behave pretty
> much like the WinMe you know and love. And then you'll be able to run
> software from this decade too !

This decade? Really!?

Actually, I did that with the Toshiba Laptop (Win 8), advice from a coworker!
Yes, nice(r). But, that's what bothers me about M$, you can't have it YOUR way, only THEIRS.
I didn't notice this before, but Win 7, when you change file-names, it excludes the extension!
And, I can't stand Win Explorer, it sees some music files, then alters its environment, like I need M$ telling me who the artists are, and very bothered by graphic files it feel I need to organize music. Oh, and then you can ONLY put files where they allow you to! So stupid. Think I'll join Randy and try Linux. Time to get off the brain-dead M$ wagon.

Thanks.

Jack
>
> geoff

[geoff]

On 16/09/2015 11:09 a.m., JackA wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 6:47:20 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>> On 16/09/2015 10:11 a.m., JackA wrote:
>>> Randy, I wasn't pointing at you. Both Tim and BobbyM in another
>>> newsgroup recently upgraded, but not sure why. I bought a nice Toshiba
>>> laptop, started it up and there was Win 8, no pamphlet or quick start
>>> guide how to use it. To me, it was like a toy, not an operating
>>> system. Not sure why M$ keeps pumping out crap. Seems they ask for no
>>> user input and dream up nightmares to keep afloat. But, on YouTube,
>>> someone mentioned about returning to Linux after loading Win 10. Maybe
>>> Linux is where I want to go. Jack
>>>> --
>>>> Randy Yates
>>>> Digital Signal Labs
>>>> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>>
>> Upgrade Win 8 to Win10 to get rid of the actual problematical stuff.
>>
>> Then download ClassicShell so you can make Win10 look and behave pretty
>> much like the WinMe you know and love. And then you'll be able to run
>> software from this decade too !
> This decade? Really!?
>
> Actually, I did that with the Toshiba Laptop (Win 8), advice from a coworker!
> Yes, nice(r). But, that's what bothers me about M$, you can't have it YOUR way, only THEIRS.
> I didn't notice this before, but Win 7, when you change file-names, it excludes the extension!


That is an option easy configurable in Win Explorer 'Organise | Folder
and Search Options' , pretty as as has been the case as far back as Win95.


>
> And, I can't stand Win Explorer, it sees some music files, then alters its environment, like I need M$ telling me who the artists are, and very bothered by graphic files it feel I need to organize music. Oh, and then you can ONLY put files where they allow you to! So stupid. Think I'll join Randy and try Linux. Time to get off the brain-dead M$ wagon.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jack

Yes, the default view for media folder is a pain for people who are not
casual 'consumer' users. However again all is configurable:

http://www.7tutorials.com/configure-default-viewing-templates-windows-explorer-be-you-want-them


geoff

[Mat Nieuwenhoven]

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 17:57:55 -0400, Randy Yates wrote:

>JackA > writes:
>> [...]
>> Not sure why many quickly jump on the new OS bandwagon. I'd first see
>> if it has any benefits for me.
>
>Don't accuse ME of this. I haven't purchased an operating system in
>about 10 years. I was FORCED to buy Win10 by a) the unavailability of
>tools I need for work in linux (namely, the PE Micro debugger for the
>Freescale Coldfire using a PE Micro USB Multilink BDM), and b) the
>complete breakdown of my old WinXP system due to forced obsolescence.

Out of curiosity, it doesn't work under Linux+Wine? I see on their
ebsite they have at least some Linux stuff:
http://www.pemicro.com/getting_started/dev_and_debug/index.cfm

Mat Nieuwenhoven

[Frank Stearns]

Randy Yates > writes:

>JackA > writes:
>> [...]
>> Not sure why many quickly jump on the new OS bandwagon. I'd first see
>> if it has any benefits for me.

>Don't accuse ME of this. I haven't purchased an operating system in
>about 10 years. I was FORCED to buy Win10 by a) the unavailability of
>tools I need for work in linux (namely, the PE Micro debugger for the
>Freescale Coldfire using a PE Micro USB Multilink BDM), and b) the
>complete breakdown of my old WinXP system due to forced obsolescence.

>I'm a linux dude. I haven't used a Windows OS as my main (non-virtual)
>machine since 2006.

I still occasionally grieve for my Sparc 420... Hell, even a VT100 talking to a Vax
was nice... I even talked one client into putting two VT100s on my desk so that I
could have 4 logins on each. Got in BIG trouble though when I started running
multiple TeX jobs.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[John Williamson]

On 16/09/2015 00:09, JackA wrote:

> Actually, I did that with the Toshiba Laptop (Win 8), advice from a coworker!
> Yes, nice(r). But, that's what bothers me about M$, you can't have it YOUR way, only THEIRS.
> I didn't notice this before, but Win 7, when you change file-names, it excludes the extension!
> And, I can't stand Win Explorer, it sees some music files, then alters its environment, like I need M$ telling me who the artists are, and very bothered by graphic files it feel I need to organize music. Oh, and then you can ONLY put files where they allow you to! So stupid. Think I'll join Randy and try Linux. Time to get off the brain-dead M$ wagon.
>
All the problems you list are easily cured by adjustments to Windows
settings and installing Classic Shell.

And while I know a lot of people like and use Linix as their main or
only OS, I have never managed to get it to work the way I want it to,
and a lot of stuff I need to use on a daily basis can't be persuaded to
work under Linux, no matter how much its supporters claim how easy it
is. For instance, if I can't get my printer to work, it's because I've
chosen the wrong printer, not because it's a bad printing subsystem in
the OS.

However, Windows' latest "phone home" exploits by the writers of the OS
may force me to try yet again to get Linux to print and talk to another
computer without using sneakernet....


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Nil[_2_]]

On 15 Sep 2015, Randy Yates > wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
> installable under it.
>
> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy
> with this.

The old help engine was eliminated as far back, I think, as Vist or
Win7. I believe it's still available for download from Microsoft, but
I'm not in a position right now to tell you where.

[Nil[_2_]]

On 15 Sep 2015, JackA > wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> And, I can't stand Win Explorer, it sees some music
> files, then alters its environment, like I need M$ telling me who
> the artists are, and very bothered by graphic files it feel I need
> to organize music. Oh, and then you can ONLY put files where they
> allow you to!

Total untrue hor**** lies and nonsense.

[geoff]

On 16/09/2015 6:55 p.m., Nil wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2015, Randy Yates > wrote in
> rec.audio.pro:
>
>> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
>> installable under it.
>>
>> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy
>> with this.
>
> The old help engine was eliminated as far back, I think, as Vist or
> Win7. I believe it's still available for download from Microsoft, but
> I'm not in a position right now to tell you where.
>


He could find out himself with 30 seconds on Google.

geoff

[John Williamson]

On 16/09/2015 07:58, Nil wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2015, JackA > wrote in
> rec.audio.pro:
>
>> And, I can't stand Win Explorer, it sees some music
>> files, then alters its environment, like I need M$ telling me who
>> the artists are, and very bothered by graphic files it feel I need
>> to organize music. Oh, and then you can ONLY put files where they
>> allow you to!
>
> Total untrue hor**** lies and nonsense.
>
>
Yes, but what else can you expect from the stupidest troll of all?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[John Williamson]

On 16/09/2015 10:24, geoff wrote:
> On 16/09/2015 6:55 p.m., Nil wrote:
>> On 15 Sep 2015, Randy Yates > wrote in
>> rec.audio.pro:
>>
>>> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
>>> installable under it.
>>>
>>> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy
>>> with this.
>>
>> The old help engine was eliminated as far back, I think, as Vist or
>> Win7. I believe it's still available for download from Microsoft, but
>> I'm not in a position right now to tell you where.
>>
>
>
> He could find out himself with 30 seconds on Google.
>
Winhlp32 is reported not to install under anything later than Windows 7.
It will not run under Windows 8.1, so I assume it won't install under
Windows 10 either. There is, however, a link to a third party viewer for
..hlp and .chm files upthread, and the program even works under Linux.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[None]

"John Williamson" > wrote in message
...
> On 16/09/2015 07:58, Nil wrote:
>> On 15 Sep 2015, JackA > wrote in
>> rec.audio.pro:
>>
>>> <jack off>
>>
>> Total untrue hor**** lies and nonsense.
>>
>>
> Yes, but what else can you expect from the stupidest troll of all?

.... whose bait you keep taking, as a willing accomplice to his
trolling.

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

Frank Stearns > writes:

> Randy Yates > writes:
>
>>JackA > writes:
>>> [...]
>>> Not sure why many quickly jump on the new OS bandwagon. I'd first see
>>> if it has any benefits for me.
>
>>Don't accuse ME of this. I haven't purchased an operating system in
>>about 10 years. I was FORCED to buy Win10 by a) the unavailability of
>>tools I need for work in linux (namely, the PE Micro debugger for the
>>Freescale Coldfire using a PE Micro USB Multilink BDM), and b) the
>>complete breakdown of my old WinXP system due to forced obsolescence.
>
>>I'm a linux dude. I haven't used a Windows OS as my main (non-virtual)
>>machine since 2006.
>
> I still occasionally grieve for my Sparc 420... Hell, even a VT100 talking to a Vax
> was nice... I even talked one client into putting two VT100s on my desk so that I
> could have 4 logins on each. Got in BIG trouble though when I started running
> multiple TeX jobs.

VT100? VAX? TeX? All in one post? Frank, you've wooed me. I'm yours, darling.
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

Nil > writes:

> On 15 Sep 2015, Randy Yates > wrote in
> rec.audio.pro:
>
>> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
>> installable under it.
>>
>> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy
>> with this.
>
> The old help engine was eliminated as far back, I think, as Vist or
> Win7. I believe it's still available for download from Microsoft, but
> I'm not in a position right now to tell you where.

Nil,

You mean this? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/917607

It won't install under Win10, at least I can't get it to.
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

John Williamson > writes:
> [...]
> However, Windows' latest "phone home" exploits by the writers of the
> OS may force me to try yet again to get Linux to print and talk to
> another computer without using sneakernet....

"Talk" to another computer? Linux been doing that since..., the
beginning ala ftp/ssh/scp. It speaks Samba fairly easily now (I
have my linux /home directory shared to Win10).

Printing hasn't always been as good, but in this day it is. There seem
to be lots of drivers, printer sharing works, etc.

I suggest you try the KDE desktop if you have a reasonably decent system
and video card.
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

"Mat Nieuwenhoven" > writes:

> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 17:57:55 -0400, Randy Yates wrote:
>
>>JackA > writes:
>>> [...]
>>> Not sure why many quickly jump on the new OS bandwagon. I'd first see
>>> if it has any benefits for me.
>>
>>Don't accuse ME of this. I haven't purchased an operating system in
>>about 10 years. I was FORCED to buy Win10 by a) the unavailability of
>>tools I need for work in linux (namely, the PE Micro debugger for the
>>Freescale Coldfire using a PE Micro USB Multilink BDM), and b) the
>>complete breakdown of my old WinXP system due to forced obsolescence.
>
> Out of curiosity, it doesn't work under Linux+Wine?

That's a good idea, I'll try it. But I'm afraid the USB interface
isn't going to work. They utilize some licensed Panda drivers for
windows and I'm not sure the linux-wine usb driver interface is
up to the job.

> I see on their ebsite they have at least some Linux stuff:
> http://www.pemicro.com/getting_started/dev_and_debug/index.cfm

Yes, they do, but not these two tools (icdcfz and progcfg).
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

Randy Yates > writes:

> "Mat Nieuwenhoven" > writes:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 17:57:55 -0400, Randy Yates wrote:
>>
>>>JackA > writes:
>>>> [...]
>>>> Not sure why many quickly jump on the new OS bandwagon. I'd first see
>>>> if it has any benefits for me.
>>>
>>>Don't accuse ME of this. I haven't purchased an operating system in
>>>about 10 years. I was FORCED to buy Win10 by a) the unavailability of
>>>tools I need for work in linux (namely, the PE Micro debugger for the
>>>Freescale Coldfire using a PE Micro USB Multilink BDM), and b) the
>>>complete breakdown of my old WinXP system due to forced obsolescence.
>>
>> Out of curiosity, it doesn't work under Linux+Wine?
>
> That's a good idea, I'll try it. But I'm afraid the USB interface
> isn't going to work. They utilize some licensed Panda drivers for
> windows and I'm not sure the linux-wine usb driver interface is
> up to the job.

PS: I also recently got a really bad "taste in my mouth" regarding Wine.
Spent about 2 hours trying to get GarminExpress to install. No joy. Took
about 15 minutes under Win10.
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[JackA]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 6:37:07 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> On 16/09/2015 07:58, Nil wrote:
> > On 15 Sep 2015, JackA > wrote in
> > rec.audio.pro:
> >
> >> And, I can't stand Win Explorer, it sees some music
> >> files, then alters its environment, like I need M$ telling me who
> >> the artists are, and very bothered by graphic files it feel I need
> >> to organize music. Oh, and then you can ONLY put files where they
> >> allow you to!
> >
> > Total untrue hor**** lies and nonsense.
> >
> >
> Yes, but what else can you expect from the stupidest troll of all?
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

Look, in my next life, I'll request a Lower IQ to better mingle with you less unfortunates.


Jack

[[email protected]]

Ranfy,
I'm following this thread but I don't understand the inital premis.

What does 10 to 15 years of help files mean?

Do you have personalized help files that you created that no longer work or ?????

I create personal help files as an ordinary .txt or .doc that are sdarchable and portable. If I stuggle with something for a while and finally get it to work, Ii will jot down a few notes about how to do it in my personal help files.

Mark

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

writes:

> Ranfy,
> I'm following this thread but I don't understand the inital premis.
>
> What does 10 to 15 years of help files mean?
>
> Do you have personalized help files that you created that no longer work or ?????
>
> I create personal help files as an ordinary .txt or .doc that are
> sdarchable and portable. If I stuggle with something for a while and
> finally get it to work, Ii will jot down a few notes about how to do
> it in my personal help files.

I'm talking about .hlp files - the old Windows help file system that was
typically included with with software from that era and would usually
be invoked with Help/Contents menu.
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Frank Stearns]

Randy Yates > writes:

>Frank Stearns > writes:

snips

>>>I'm a linux dude. I haven't used a Windows OS as my main (non-virtual)
>>>machine since 2006.
>>
>> I still occasionally grieve for my Sparc 420... Hell, even a VT100 talking to a Vax
>> was nice... I even talked one client into putting two VT100s on my desk so that I
>> could have 4 logins on each. Got in BIG trouble though when I started running
>> multiple TeX jobs.

>VT100? VAX? TeX? All in one post? Frank, you've wooed me. I'm yours, darling.

Guffaw. Well, shucks. Are you cute? Rich? What if I told you I could drive an 029
keypunch, build a card deck, and run ForTran IV jobs on a 6-bit IBM mainframe? Or am
I exposing too much of an age gap? (Er, I was a precocious 3 year old?)

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

Frank Stearns > writes:

> Randy Yates > writes:
>
>>Frank Stearns > writes:
>
> snips
>
>>>>I'm a linux dude. I haven't used a Windows OS as my main (non-virtual)
>>>>machine since 2006.
>>>
>>> I still occasionally grieve for my Sparc 420... Hell, even a VT100 talking to a Vax
>>> was nice... I even talked one client into putting two VT100s on my desk so that I
>>> could have 4 logins on each. Got in BIG trouble though when I started running
>>> multiple TeX jobs.
>
>>VT100? VAX? TeX? All in one post? Frank, you've wooed me. I'm yours, darling.
>
> Guffaw. Well, shucks. Are you cute? Rich?

Get off the leg, Frank. I meant in the "kindred technical spirits"
sense. :)

> What if I told you I could drive an 029 keypunch, build a card deck,
> and run ForTran IV jobs on a 6-bit IBM mainframe? Or am I exposing too
> much of an age gap? (Er, I was a precocious 3 year old?)

That too, but some before my time. My Fortran class at DeVry/Atlanta
(circa 1977) was the last one to use punch cards and IBM timesharing.

We had a wonderful VAX cluster at GTE Government Systems when I was
there in the 80s. VMS is probably THE best OS I've ever used. And yes we
had VT100's all over the place, but my favorites were the green C.
Itoh's. I could code on those all day.
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[JackA]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 5:25:08 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> On 16/09/2015 6:55 p.m., Nil wrote:
> > On 15 Sep 2015, Randy Yates > wrote in
> > rec.audio.pro:
> >
> >> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
> >> installable under it.
> >>
> >> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy
> >> with this.
> >
> > The old help engine was eliminated as far back, I think, as Vist or
> > Win7. I believe it's still available for download from Microsoft, but
> > I'm not in a position right now to tell you where.
> >
>
>
> He could find out himself with 30 seconds on Google.

Remember, Huggybear, I used to PROGRAM computers while you peeps only used them. And I'm not talking Frank's days of horse and buggy ForTran!!!

Stifle.

Jack
>
> geoff

[JackA]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 1:33:00 PM UTC-4, Randy Yates wrote:
> writes:
>
> > Ranfy,
> > I'm following this thread but I don't understand the inital premis.
> >
> > What does 10 to 15 years of help files mean?
> >
> > Do you have personalized help files that you created that no longer work or ?????
> >
> > I create personal help files as an ordinary .txt or .doc that are
> > sdarchable and portable. If I stuggle with something for a while and
> > finally get it to work, Ii will jot down a few notes about how to do
> > it in my personal help files.
>
> I'm talking about .hlp files - the old Windows help file system that was
> typically included with with software from that era and would usually
> be invoked with Help/Contents menu.
> --
> Randy Yates
> Digital Signal Labs
> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

Note sure this helps, Randy....

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/winhelp.gif

Jack :)

[JackA]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 1:48:52 PM UTC-4, Frank Stearns wrote:
> Randy Yates > writes:
>
> >Frank Stearns > writes:
>
> snips
>
> >>>I'm a linux dude. I haven't used a Windows OS as my main (non-virtual)
> >>>machine since 2006.
> >>
> >> I still occasionally grieve for my Sparc 420... Hell, even a VT100 talking to a Vax
> >> was nice... I even talked one client into putting two VT100s on my desk so that I
> >> could have 4 logins on each. Got in BIG trouble though when I started running
> >> multiple TeX jobs.
>
> >VT100? VAX? TeX? All in one post? Frank, you've wooed me. I'm yours, darling.
>
> Guffaw. Well, shucks. Are you cute? Rich? What if I told you I could drive an 029
> keypunch, build a card deck, and run ForTran IV jobs on a 6-bit IBM mainframe? Or am
> I exposing too much of an age gap? (Er, I was a precocious 3 year old?)

Bloated code....

http://pureinfotech.com/2014/05/09/download-windows-7-8-81-iso-installation-media/

Jack

>
> Frank
> Mobile Audio
> --
> .

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 9/16/2015 4:31 PM, Randy Yates wrote:
> That too, but some before my time. My Fortran class at DeVry/Atlanta
> (circa 1977) was the last one to use punch cards and IBM timesharing.

My Fortran 2 class was in 1966. Punch cards. I don't know how many bits
the IBM was. I think it was a 1620 if that's a number. The engineering
school's computer was the FLAC II (Florida Automatic Computer) that was
replaced at Cape Canaveral when they started doing space shots. The IBM
was in the registrar's office and they let us use that in the evenings.


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[geoff]

On 17/09/2015 8:44 a.m., JackA wrote:
> Remember, Huggybear, I used to PROGRAM computers while you peeps only used them. And I'm not talking Frank's days of horse and buggy ForTran!!!
>
> Stifle.
>
> Jack
>

How about a character generator programed in 6800 machine code to
display on a CRO ?

geoff

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 2:58:01 PM UTC-7, Randy Yates wrote:
> JackA > writes:
> > [...]
> > Not sure why many quickly jump on the new OS bandwagon. I'd first see
> > if it has any benefits for me.
>
> Don't accuse ME of this. I haven't purchased an operating system in
> about 10 years. I was FORCED to buy Win10 by a) the unavailability of
> tools I need for work in linux (namely, the PE Micro debugger for the
> Freescale Coldfire using a PE Micro USB Multilink BDM), and b) the
> complete breakdown of my old WinXP system due to forced obsolescence.
>
> I'm a linux dude. I haven't used a Windows OS as my main (non-virtual)
> machine since 2006.
> --
> Randy Yates
> Digital Signal Labs
> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

A bit off topic but I just saw this the other day:

http://harrisonconsoles.com/site/mixbus-sysreq.html

A commercial company offering a DAW for Windows,
Mac and Linux! I hope more do the same, but I won't
hold my breath.

Gary V

[JackA]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 7:40:19 AM UTC-4, None wrote:
> "John Williamson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 16/09/2015 07:58, Nil wrote:
> >> On 15 Sep 2015, JackA > wrote in
> >> rec.audio.pro:
> >>
> >>> <jack off>
> >>
> >> Total untrue hor**** lies and nonsense.
> >>
> >>
> > Yes, but what else can you expect from the stupidest troll of all?
>
> ... whose bait you keep taking, as a willing accomplice to his
> trolling.

Registration: ... and do you have children of your own?
Parents: Yes, None.
Registration: ?????


Jack :-)

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >, Mike Rivers > wrote:
>On 9/16/2015 4:31 PM, Randy Yates wrote:
>> That too, but some before my time. My Fortran class at DeVry/Atlanta
>> (circa 1977) was the last one to use punch cards and IBM timesharing.
>
>My Fortran 2 class was in 1966. Punch cards. I don't know how many bits
>the IBM was. I think it was a 1620 if that's a number. The engineering
>school's computer was the FLAC II (Florida Automatic Computer) that was
>replaced at Cape Canaveral when they started doing space shots. The IBM
>was in the registrar's office and they let us use that in the evenings.

1620 was about that era, but it didn't have any bits. It was a BCD
machine, five decimal digits per word. IBM was very big on BCD hardware,
coming from the accounting world where money is kept in exact dollars and
cents, and of course it makes the numerical analysis of error bounds and
the like much easier for people who think in decimal.

My first machine was in-between yours, it was OS/360 without the timesharing
option. It had both BCD and binary arithmetic instructions, as well as
the kitchen sink and anything else the engineers at IBM could think of to
throw into the instruction set.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[JackA]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 6:01:08 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> On 17/09/2015 8:44 a.m., JackA wrote:
> > Remember, Huggybear, I used to PROGRAM computers while you peeps only used them. And I'm not talking Frank's days of horse and buggy ForTran!!!
> >
> > Stifle.
> >
> > Jack
> >
>
> How about a character generator programed in 6800 machine code to
> display on a CRO ?

You must share Mike Rivers' temperament, he punched cards!!!

Poor cards never hurt no one!!

Move along my little one.

Jack :-)
>
> geoff

[JackA]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 7:03:40 PM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> >On 9/16/2015 4:31 PM, Randy Yates wrote:
> >> That too, but some before my time. My Fortran class at DeVry/Atlanta
> >> (circa 1977) was the last one to use punch cards and IBM timesharing.
> >
> >My Fortran 2 class was in 1966. Punch cards. I don't know how many bits
> >the IBM was. I think it was a 1620 if that's a number. The engineering
> >school's computer was the FLAC II (Florida Automatic Computer) that was
> >replaced at Cape Canaveral when they started doing space shots. The IBM
> >was in the registrar's office and they let us use that in the evenings.
>
> 1620 was about that era, but it didn't have any bits. It was a BCD
> machine

Before Christ Digital???

Jack :-)

, five decimal digits per word. IBM was very big on BCD hardware,
> coming from the accounting world where money is kept in exact dollars and
> cents, and of course it makes the numerical analysis of error bounds and
> the like much easier for people who think in decimal.
>
> My first machine was in-between yours, it was OS/360 without the timesharing
> option. It had both BCD and binary arithmetic instructions, as well as
> the kitchen sink and anything else the engineers at IBM could think of to
> throw into the instruction set.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 9/16/2015 6:03 PM, wrote:

> A bit off topic but I just saw this the other day:
> http://harrisonconsoles.com/site/mixbus-sysreq.html

> A commercial company offering a DAW for Windows,
> Mac and Linux! I hope more do the same, but I won't
> hold my breath.

Harrison has been involved with Linux for a long time, and they were a
contributor to the Ardour project for several years. They have some
large format consoles that use pieces of the Ardour code. MixBus
software is based on Ardour with Harrison's GUI and equalizer designs. I
have MixBus loaded on one of my computers and play around with it every
now and then. It's a good program for dinosaurs like me who want a
recorder and a console and don't bother me with those waveforms until I
have to edit something.


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) writes:

> In article >, Mike Rivers > wrote:
>>On 9/16/2015 4:31 PM, Randy Yates wrote:
>>> That too, but some before my time. My Fortran class at DeVry/Atlanta
>>> (circa 1977) was the last one to use punch cards and IBM timesharing.
>>
>>My Fortran 2 class was in 1966. Punch cards. I don't know how many bits
>>the IBM was. I think it was a 1620 if that's a number. The engineering
>>school's computer was the FLAC II (Florida Automatic Computer) that was
>>replaced at Cape Canaveral when they started doing space shots. The IBM
>>was in the registrar's office and they let us use that in the evenings.
>
> 1620 was about that era, but it didn't have any bits. It was a BCD
> machine, five decimal digits per word. IBM was very big on BCD hardware,
> coming from the accounting world where money is kept in exact dollars and
> cents, and of course it makes the numerical analysis of error bounds and
> the like much easier for people who think in decimal.
>
> My first machine was in-between yours, it was OS/360 without the timesharing
> option. It had both BCD and binary arithmetic instructions, as well as
> the kitchen sink and anything else the engineers at IBM could think of to
> throw into the instruction set.

The 8085 had BCD instructions, e.g., "DAA - Decimal Accumulator Adjust".
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Angus Kerr]

> Harrison has been involved with Linux for a long time, and they were a
> contributor to the Ardour project for several years. They have some
> large format consoles that use pieces of the Ardour code. MixBus
> software is based on Ardour with Harrison's GUI and equalizer designs. I
> have MixBus loaded on one of my computers and play around with it every
> now and then. It's a good program for dinosaurs like me who want a
> recorder and a console and don't bother me with those waveforms until I
> have to edit something.

I've been running (and supporting) Ardour since the early days. Initially it was a bit klunky, but now it is an eminently serviceable product. All my stuff is there and I am totally Linux, I have not run a Windows workstation since 2006.

But there was a steep learning curve, and a lot of time spent sorting out things that could have been spent composing / recording music. Like trouble shooting why some distributions don't include the firmware for my EMU-1212 sound card that always catches me out when I change / upgrade distros.

I see that they (Harrison) have just released an update to V3. I'm going to purchase it. Hopefully, it'll read Ardour sessions, since the old V2 wasn't able to read Ardour 3 sesssions, and Ardour 3 wasn't interested in MixBus 2 sessions.

I really like the flow of the mixbus, which I suppose is like an old analog console that you would find in a studio where you just turn on a compressor / limiter that's already in the signal path. I'm not a fan of plugins, which seem to be a necessary evil of running a DAW.

I would however, caution that any proposed move to Linux for audio work, make sure that there is a driver for the soundcard you want to use. For example, my digi002 rack is a nice paperweight since Digidesign will not release a Linux driver. So if I want to use it, I'd have to roll my own driver, something a little beyond my skillset.

Angus

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 9/17/2015 5:37 AM, Angus Kerr wrote:

> I've been running (and supporting) Ardour since the early days.
> Initially it was a bit klunky, but now it is an eminently serviceable
> product.

Ardour made a big leap from its original concept. The original Ardour
was a functional copy of the Mackie HDR24/96 recorder without a mixer. I
looked at the first version (I had a Mackie HDR) and thought it was
interesting, but there wasn't much available to get audio in and out of
it. I looked at it again maybe 5 years later and it had changed gears
and was becoming a DAW program. I've loaded it up a couple of times but
just couldn't get interested in it.

> I would however, caution that any proposed move to Linux for audio
> work, make sure that there is a driver for the soundcard you want to
> use.

And there's the rub. When I was playing with Ardour, the only supported
I/O device I had was the computer's built-in audio. What's made MixBus
useful to the real world was to provide what amounts to an ASIO driver.
MixBus recognized my Mackie 1640i mixer and I had 16 channels of input
and output. The FADO project has support for the now discontinued Mackie
Firewire option card now (they didn't when I was playing with Ardour)
but the pickings for multi-channel interfaces are still pretty slim.
Audio I/O hardware manufacturers, with only a couple of exceptions,
aren't bothering with Linux support, not even offering documentation and
loaner equipment for volunteer developers to work with.


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Randy Yates > wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) writes:
>> My first machine was in-between yours, it was OS/360 without the timesharing
>> option. It had both BCD and binary arithmetic instructions, as well as
>> the kitchen sink and anything else the engineers at IBM could think of to
>> throw into the instruction set.
>
>The 8085 had BCD instructions, e.g., "DAA - Decimal Accumulator Adjust".

Right. The DAA allows you to use ordinary add and subtract instructions
to do BCD arithmetic, at the expense of twice as many CPU cycles being used.

It gets more complicated if you want to do multiplication and division in
BCD, though... not that the 8085 had any multiply or divide at all...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 5:26:25 PM UTC-7, Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 9/16/2015 6:03 PM, wrote:
>
> > A bit off topic but I just saw this the other day:
> > http://harrisonconsoles.com/site/mixbus-sysreq.html
>
> > A commercial company offering a DAW for Windows,
> > Mac and Linux! I hope more do the same, but I won't
> > hold my breath.
>
> Harrison has been involved with Linux for a long time, and they were a
> contributor to the Ardour project for several years. They have some
> large format consoles that use pieces of the Ardour code. MixBus
> software is based on Ardour with Harrison's GUI and equalizer designs. I
> have MixBus loaded on one of my computers and play around with it every
> now and then. It's a good program for dinosaurs like me who want a
> recorder and a console and don't bother me with those waveforms until I
> have to edit something.
>
>
> --
> For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

That's good to hear. I wish more companies would contribute in this way.
I would bet their digital consoles are running Linux and I wouldn't be a
bit surprised that they developed MixBus in the Linux domain.

And as you mentioned below, lack of audio drivers for Linux is a
problem. Companies like RME seem like they provide some support
via ALSA or OpenSound. I've often wondered if a company such as
Lynx Studio would provide a Linux driver for their AES 16 PCI cards
whether it might encourage more Linux usage. I think they may have
actively supported their legacy LynxOne card with Linux drivers, if
only technical support.

I'm using a Mac/Cubase setup right now, but if there was a Linux
driver available for an AES audio card I would definitely check out
MixBus on Linux. I noticed on their website they are promoting
open standards which appeals to me a lot.

Gary V

[Bill[_20_]]

In message >, John Williamson
> writes
>On 15/09/2015 17:17, Randy Yates wrote:
>> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
>> installable under it.
>>
>> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
>> this.
>>
>This may help:-
>
>http://download.cnet.com/Help-Explorer-Viewer/3000-6675_4-10666661.htm
>
There have been a few discussions on the W10 Insider's forum, including
this

http://tinyurl.com/q2e6wdc

I haven't tried the answer contained within.

The main thing that shines out of the Insider forums is how MS appears
not to be interested in acting on feedback.

On other topics raised here, I remember saying that I would report back
about Harrison Mixbus when I had tried it. I am still at the stage of
finding the driver problems and the difficult routing too much for the
time available.
Added to which, I'm getting too old to do much/any mixing any more.
And I was always more into the home computer side of things - more
hacking calculator chips and 8086's than Vax.
--
Bill

[John Williamson]

On 17/09/2015 20:06, Bill wrote:
> In message >, John Williamson
> > writes
>> On 15/09/2015 17:17, Randy Yates wrote:
>>> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
>>> installable under it.
>>>
>>> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
>>> this.
>>>
>> This may help:-
>>
>> http://download.cnet.com/Help-Explorer-Viewer/3000-6675_4-10666661.htm
>>
> There have been a few discussions on the W10 Insider's forum, including
> this
>
> http://tinyurl.com/q2e6wdc
>
> I haven't tried the answer contained within.
>
> The main thing that shines out of the Insider forums is how MS appears
> not to be interested in acting on feedback.
>
The probability is that Micro$oft want us all to buy new programs to doe
the work of the older ones, and making it hard to use .hlp files is part
of that,

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[JackA]

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:09:04 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
> In message >, John Williamson
> > writes
> >On 15/09/2015 17:17, Randy Yates wrote:
> >> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
> >> installable under it.
> >>
> >> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
> >> this.
> >>
> >This may help:-
> >
> >http://download.cnet.com/Help-Explorer-Viewer/3000-6675_4-10666661.htm
> >
> There have been a few discussions on the W10 Insider's forum, including
> this
>
> http://tinyurl.com/q2e6wdc
>
> I haven't tried the answer contained within.
>
> The main thing that shines out of the Insider forums is how MS appears
> not to be interested in acting on feedback.

Thanks!! Yes, they dream-up all the items I complain about, because THEY feel it's best for ME! But, to M$, they want toddlers to be able to use their OS's, as well as adults.

Jack

>
> On other topics raised here, I remember saying that I would report back
> about Harrison Mixbus when I had tried it. I am still at the stage of
> finding the driver problems and the difficult routing too much for the
> time available.
> Added to which, I'm getting too old to do much/any mixing any more.
> And I was always more into the home computer side of things - more
> hacking calculator chips and 8086's than Vax.
> --
> Bill

[JackA]

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:26:36 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> On 17/09/2015 20:06, Bill wrote:
> > In message >, John Williamson
> > > writes
> >> On 15/09/2015 17:17, Randy Yates wrote:
> >>> It seems Win10 won't read them, and the legacy help program is not
> >>> installable under it.
> >>>
> >>> Did MS just blow away 10-15 years of help files? I'm not too happy with
> >>> this.
> >>>
> >> This may help:-
> >>
> >> http://download.cnet.com/Help-Explorer-Viewer/3000-6675_4-10666661.htm
> >>
> > There have been a few discussions on the W10 Insider's forum, including
> > this
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/q2e6wdc
> >
> > I haven't tried the answer contained within.
> >
> > The main thing that shines out of the Insider forums is how MS appears
> > not to be interested in acting on feedback.
> >
> The probability is that Micro$oft want us all to buy new programs to doe
> the work of the older ones, and making it hard to use .hlp files is part
> of that,

Amen!!

Jack
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

[JackA]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 2:58:45 AM UTC-4, Nil wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2015, JackA > wrote in
> rec.audio.pro:
>
> > And, I can't stand Win Explorer, it sees some music
> > files, then alters its environment, like I need M$ telling me who
> > the artists are, and very bothered by graphic files it feel I need
> > to organize music. Oh, and then you can ONLY put files where they
> > allow you to!
>
> Total untrue hor**** lies and nonsense.

OH!! I see, you're a Beatles fan!! I knew there had to be a story behind your disliking me!!!

Jack