Lav Question (The Minidisc Forum Sent Me Here)

[Pandora]

How would I go about using a Sanken COS-11, Countryman B6, or Sony
ECM-88 wired to a minidisc recorder? My main concerns here are the
connectors seeing as minidisc is 1/8" (3.5mm). Secondly, what would
be your recommendation as options in powering the mic? (Not sure if
minidisc has any power to a mic --
has "mic in" and "line in".) Any help appreciated. I'm trying to get
away from dynamic lavs -- there aren't really any good ones, are
there?

[Ty Ford]

In Article >,
(Pandora) wrote:
>How would I go about using a Sanken COS-11, Countryman B6, or Sony
>ECM-88 wired to a minidisc recorder? My main concerns here are the
>connectors seeing as minidisc is 1/8" (3.5mm). Secondly, what would
>be your recommendation as options in powering the mic? (Not sure if
>minidisc has any power to a mic --
>has "mic in" and "line in".) Any help appreciated. I'm trying to get
>away from dynamic lavs -- there aren't really any good ones, are
>there?


The ECM 88 power supply has a cavity for a simple AA cell battery. The cable
you need is not readily available. You need a cable that connects the +
terminal in the XLR (pin 2, I think) to BOTH tip and ring of the mini TRS.
The - side and ground both go to the sleeve on the mini TRS. That way the
audio is fed to both channels of the MD recorder.


Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Richard Kuschel]

>
>How would I go about using a Sanken COS-11, Countryman B6, or Sony
>ECM-88 wired to a minidisc recorder? My main concerns here are the
>connectors seeing as minidisc is 1/8" (3.5mm). Secondly, what would
>be your recommendation as options in powering the mic? (Not sure if
>minidisc has any power to a mic --
>has "mic in" and "line in".) Any help appreciated. I'm trying to get
>away from dynamic lavs -- there aren't really any good ones, are
>there?
>

You're going to need the adapter that is sold seperately from the microphone.


It's usually a 3/4" diameter tube with an XLR output. It may have an internal
battery or require Phantom.

Each of the respective manufacturers builds these for using the microphones in
a wired mode.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Cossie]

"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...

The cable
> you need is not readily available. You need a cable that connects the +
> terminal in the XLR (pin 2, I think) to BOTH tip and ring of the mini TRS.
> The - side and ground both go to the sleeve on the mini TRS. That way the
> audio is fed to both channels of the MD recorder.
>

Couldn't he use a garden variety cable and run the MD in mono mode since
what you're recommending will give him a mono source anyway? Plus this will
give him double the recording time. Am I missing something?

Bill Balmer

[Richard Crowley]

> "Ty Ford" wrote ...
> The cable
> > you need is not readily available. You need a cable that
> > connects the + terminal in the XLR (pin 2, I think) to BOTH
> > tip and ring of the mini TRS. The - side and ground both go
> > to the sleeve on the mini TRS. That way the
> > audio is fed to both channels of the MD recorder.

"Cossie" wrote ...
> Couldn't he use a garden variety cable and run the MD in
> mono mode since what you're recommending will give him
> a mono source anyway? Plus this will give him double the
> recording time. Am I missing something?

The problem is the definition of "garden variety". Most would
assume "conventional" wiring of 1-sleeve; 2-tip; 3-ring which
would be fine for "conventional" applications (although I can't
think of one that needs a 1/8 inch (3.5mm) phone plug!)

It is quite possible that a cable like this will record nothing
in "mono" mode since the "L" and "R" channels will have
opposite-polarity versions of the same signal and will cancel
each other either partially or even completely.

And then there is the matter of whether the source has a quasi-
balanced output where each side is actually referenced to ground,
or a true differential output (as from a transformer). But there
are enough potential problems even before you get to this one.

And then also there is the matter of the bias voltage that most
portable MD recorders output from the mic input jack. Great
for direct-connected electret capsules, but may cause problems
when connected (by whatever method) to a "real" mic.

I have a few schematics online for consumer camcorders, but
portable DAT & MD recorders behave basically the same way.
http://www.rcrowley.com/CamAdapt.htm

[Ty Ford]

In Article >,
"Cossie" > wrote:
>
>"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
>
> The cable
>> you need is not readily available. You need a cable that connects the +
>> terminal in the XLR (pin 2, I think) to BOTH tip and ring of the mini TRS.
>> The - side and ground both go to the sleeve on the mini TRS. That way the
>> audio is fed to both channels of the MD recorder.
>>
>
>Couldn't he use a garden variety cable and run the MD in mono mode since
>what you're recommending will give him a mono source anyway? Plus this will
>give him double the recording time. Am I missing something?
>
>Bill Balmer

Bill,

Describe a garden variety cable. If by that you mean Pins 1, 2 and 3 are S,
R, T, respectively, that would put the low side of the mic on one channel
and the high side on the other. In short, no.

You need to bridge both inputs of the MD recorder with the same pin (usually
pin 2) and connect pins 1 and 3 to the sleeve.

Regards,

Ty Ford


**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[Cossie]

"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
>
> Describe a garden variety cable. If by that you mean Pins 1, 2 and 3 are
S,
> R, T, respectively, that would put the low side of the mic on one channel
> and the high side on the other. In short, no.
>

Okay, thanks for the clarification. I was thinking of the way my AT822
stereo mic is wired - different animal.

Bill Balmer

[Jeff Jasper]

Pandora wrote:

>How would I go about using a Sanken COS-11, Countryman B6, or Sony
>ECM-88 wired to a minidisc recorder? My main concerns here are the
>connectors seeing as minidisc is 1/8" (3.5mm).

You need a Shure A95F adapter w/cable. Go here:
http://www.shure.com/accessories/a96f.asp?PN=Problem%20Solvers


>Secondly, what would
>be your recommendation as options in powering the mic?

Just be sure to get the version of the mic with the attached AA cell preamp,
NOT the one designed to plug into a wireless transmitter.


>I'm trying to get
>away from dynamic lavs -- there aren't really any good ones, are
>there?

No. They all suck -- unless you like "that telephone sound." The Shure SM-11
is the smallest, and possibly the only one still in production, but it sounds
awful.

Jeff Jasper
Jeff Jasper Productions, West Funroe, La.

[Ty Ford]

In Article >,
"Cossie" > wrote:
>
>"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Describe a garden variety cable. If by that you mean Pins 1, 2 and 3 are
>S,
>> R, T, respectively, that would put the low side of the mic on one channel
>> and the high side on the other. In short, no.
>>
>
>Okay, thanks for the clarification. I was thinking of the way my AT822
>stereo mic is wired - different animal.
>
>Bill Balmer


Bill,

E Toline reminds me that 2 is usually considered hot and should go to the
tip and sleeve. My dyslexia made me reverse the polarity. However, in this
case, the only thing that would happen is the mic would be of reverse
polarity. Unless, of course, the mic was pin 3 hot, then it would be
correctly polarized.

Regardless of any of the above, the signal wire goes to tip and ring. Ground
and the other go to sleeve.

Regards,

Ty


**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[Pandora]

Jeff,
Your comment about the AA battery led me to find the Sanken
COS-11BP (battery power). I also was recommended a DPA 4060 that can
be set-up
with a 9V battery box and 1/8th" connecter from the box without
having to use the XLR to 1/8th" mini adapter, as would be required
with the COS-11. Thing is, I never heard of DPA before and I wonder
how it'd compare to the Sanken. Any ideas on this?

[Jeff Jasper]

Pandora wrote:

>I never heard of DPA before and I wonder
>how it'd compare to the Sanken.

I've never used either of them, but both DAP and Sanken are very well respected
companies. DPA is Danish Pro Audio, formerly Bruel & Kjaer of measurement mic
fame. Sanken also has a great reputation, as does Sennheiser, Beyer,
Countryman, Tram, Sonomic, PSC, and Sony. PSC has a lav with an integral
7-year lithium battery that I used on one project, and it sounded great and
came with a nice range of accessories similar to Tram.

But, I've been out of location audio for a while now, so I'm no longer familiar
with "what's the best."

Jeff Jasper
Jeff Jasper Productions, West Funroe, La.

[Jeff Jasper]

Pandora wrote:

>I never heard of DPA before and I wonder
>how it'd compare to the Sanken.

I've never used either of them, but both DAP and Sanken are very well respected
companies. DPA is Danish Pro Audio, formerly Bruel & Kjaer of measurement mic
fame. Sanken also has a great reputation, as does Sennheiser, Beyer,
Countryman, Tram, Sonomic, PSC, and Sony. PSC has a lav with an integral
7-year lithium battery that I used on one project, and it sounded great and
came with a nice range of accessories similar to Tram.

But, I've been out of location audio for a while now, so I'm no longer familiar
with "what's the best."

Jeff Jasper
Jeff Jasper Productions, West Funroe, La.