DJ Sound Reinforcement

[Bitrex]

I'm doing some contract work in my spare time helping set up some audio
equipment that a guy uses to DJ at local car show. Though I think I
kind of have it figured out, it's been a while since I've done this
and I thought I'd run the topology I'm thinking of by some of the audio
guys here to see what they think.

He has a Yamaha powered mixer:

https://www.manualowl.com/m/Yamaha/EMX5000-12/Manual/153042

Right now he's just using two iPods for the music and crossfading manually.

He has a BBE Sonic Maximizer rack, a 4 channel rack compressor, a DJ
mic, and a "feedback destroyer" DSP EQ rackmount he'd like to integrate
into the setup.

So it seems this mixer has insert points on every mono channel, several
stereo channels, 2 aux sends that can be switched pre or post fader, one
"master" stereo effects bus send on every channel that's post fader and
a master effects return, and a stereo main preamp output and a power amp
input.

I'm thinking that I'm going to put the two iPods into two of the stereo
channels, and then strap two channels of the compressor into the
"master" stereo effects loop. Take the two iPod stereo channels and
mute their main outputs and instead route them post-fader through the
compressor in the effects loop and on into the preamp output.

I'm going to take a 3rd channel of the rack compressor and put it on an
insert point of the DJ mic input, and route that into the preamp output
as well. Then take an aux send from that channel post-fader and put it
into the sidechain of the stereo mix compressor to duck the audio when
the DJ is speaking.

Lastly, I take the main mix out of the "preamp output" and then run it
through the sonic maximizer and feedback destroyer, and then into the
power amp input jacks. Only question I have here is that the sonic
maximizer is designed for -10 dbV inputs only, and the mixer preamp out
is +4 dbU only. I think the feedback destroyer inputs and output
nominal levels are independently configurable with a switch, so maybe I
should put that first and then the maximizer second in the chain?

Thanks for any advice.

[Bitrex]

On 6/19/2015 1:42 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> bitrex > wrote:
>>
>> https://www.manualowl.com/m/Yamaha/EMX5000-12/Manual/153042
>>
>> Right now he's just using two iPods for the music and crossfading manually.
>
> Is he happy?

<snip>

>
> The sonic maximizer is kind of a cheesy effect that can help compensate for
> poor quality speakers or rolled-off source material, but a little bit goes
> a long, long way. I'd avoid it like the plague unless there is a very
> specific reason to use it.
> --scott
>

Thanks for your advice!

[Scott Dorsey]

bitrex > wrote:
>
>https://www.manualowl.com/m/Yamaha/EMX5000-12/Manual/153042
>
>Right now he's just using two iPods for the music and crossfading manually.

Is he happy?

>He has a BBE Sonic Maximizer rack, a 4 channel rack compressor, a DJ
>mic, and a "feedback destroyer" DSP EQ rackmount he'd like to integrate
>into the setup.

Why? What problems does he want to solve?

If he has feedback issues that he can't solve with proper speaker placement
he could put the feedback destroyer in the insert for the mike channel.
There is no reason for it to be in the chain with anything other than the mike
because nothing else will feedback.

The DJ mike should just plug into a mike input on the console. Voila.

The compressor and the sonic maximizer.... what does he want them for? Are
they there to solve a specific problem or are they there because someone told
him they were cool? I'd keep them at home unless there is a need for them.

>So it seems this mixer has insert points on every mono channel, several
>stereo channels, 2 aux sends that can be switched pre or post fader, one
>"master" stereo effects bus send on every channel that's post fader and
>a master effects return, and a stereo main preamp output and a power amp
>input.

Typical.

>I'm thinking that I'm going to put the two iPods into two of the stereo
>channels, and then strap two channels of the compressor into the
>"master" stereo effects loop. Take the two iPod stereo channels and
>mute their main outputs and instead route them post-fader through the
>compressor in the effects loop and on into the preamp output.

Why the compressor at all? The source material is already plenty compressed
as it is, you don't need to do anything else.

>I'm going to take a 3rd channel of the rack compressor and put it on an
>insert point of the DJ mic input, and route that into the preamp output
>as well. Then take an aux send from that channel post-fader and put it
>into the sidechain of the stereo mix compressor to duck the audio when
>the DJ is speaking.

This would seem a good use of a compressor, if in fact the DJ isn't able to
duck himself manually very well. But how well it works depends a lot on
the DJ's technique.

>Lastly, I take the main mix out of the "preamp output" and then run it
>through the sonic maximizer and feedback destroyer, and then into the
>power amp input jacks. Only question I have here is that the sonic
>maximizer is designed for -10 dbV inputs only, and the mixer preamp out
>is +4 dbU only. I think the feedback destroyer inputs and output
>nominal levels are independently configurable with a switch, so maybe I
>should put that first and then the maximizer second in the chain?

The feedback destroyer shouldn't have anything but the mike going through
it, it belongs in the mike channel insert.

The sonic maximizer is kind of a cheesy effect that can help compensate for
poor quality speakers or rolled-off source material, but a little bit goes
a long, long way. I'd avoid it like the plague unless there is a very
specific reason to use it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 6/18/2015 10:19 AM, bitrex wrote:

> He has a Yamaha powered mixer:
> Right now he's just using two iPods for the music and crossfading manually.
>
> He has a BBE Sonic Maximizer rack, a 4 channel rack compressor, a DJ
> mic, and a "feedback destroyer" DSP EQ rackmount he'd like to integrate
> into the setup.

I agree with Scott's points - what problems is he having? Or are you
just trying to figure out a way to use up all the gear?

The only source for feedback will be the microphone, so the feedback
suppressor should go in the insert send/return of the mic channel. You
don't what it to decide that something in the music is feedback and
suppress it.

There isn't going to be any value to putting the compressors in line
with the music, though I can see some value in putting a pair of them in
the signal path ahead of the power amplifier section. There's a limiter
of sorts in there but as far as I can tell, it's not a peak limiter for
the signal, but rather, a switch to select how much power the amplifier
can deliver. There doesn't appear to be an insert point in that path,
however, there are jacks for the left/right main mix outputs and power
amplifier inputs, so you could patch a pair of compressors in line
between the mix outputs and amplifier inputs. Since it's a powered
mixer, I assume that he's using passive speakers. The compressor would
offer some degree of protection for them. (active speakers usually
protect themselves)

> I'm thinking that I'm going to put the two iPods into two of the stereo
> channels, and then strap two channels of the compressor into the
> "master" stereo effects loop. Take the two iPod stereo channels and
> mute their main outputs and instead route them post-fader through the
> compressor in the effects loop and on into the preamp output.

That's pretty clever, but it's ripe for not having a button pressed or
not having a knob turned and get no sound. An alternative, though it
would make crossfading between the two iPods more clumsy, is to use two
channels for each of them. That way you'd have access to channel inserts
where you could put the other two compressor channels set up to duck the
music. But you might want to test that first to see if you can set the
release time long enough so that it doesn't recover between words or
sentences. It's too bad that mixer doesn't have a subgroup pair.

Forget the sonic maximizer. Sell it to someone who's recording
cassettes. If he picks the right music to play, it'll be sonically
maximized nearly to death anyway.

You can make this work, but tell him to raise his prices enough so that
he can buy the right mixer real soon. DJ mixers have all of this stuff
figured out. As someone pointed out in another recent thread here, some
of them offer a "ducking" feature built in.



--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 6/18/2015 10:19 AM, bitrex wrote:

> He has a Yamaha powered mixer:
> Yamaha EMX5000-12

By the way, for anyone else wanting to study out this solution, a much
more readable copy of the manual is at:

http://tinyurl.com/p9aame4

You're welcome.


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com