Anybody Home?

[Mike Rivers]

Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just me, or is everyone bored with the trolls?

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 06:11:16 -0700 (PDT), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just me, or is everyone bored with the trolls?

They've gone back under the bridge for easter.

d

[Luxey]

Happy!

[Frank Stearns]

"Neil Gould" > writes:

>Mike Rivers wrote:
>> Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just
>> me, or is everyone bored with the trolls?
>>
>It's not just you, and pretty much.
>Happy Easter,


Okay, if it's too quiet I'll through in something...

The new room has been up and running for several months now and for most folks it'd
be pretty darn good. But the old room was FLAT from 200 hz down, with a little
ripple at the 21 hz port frequency of the subs, making things +/- 3 dB between 19 hz
and 23 hz or so. I got spoiled by that performance over the 12 years I was in that
room, that's for sure.

The new room (same subs, mains, electronics; slightly different soffit design) has a
gradual 5 dB rise starting at 300 hz and hitting +5 at 20 hz, and there's a funky
little hiccup between 150 and 160 Hz or so.

I've taken many measurements and adjusted traps. Can't get rid of these LF
anomolies. That's the bad news.

The GOOD news is that the waterfalls show that these issues propogate perfectly for
600 milliseconds -- there are no twisting or reversing rising or falling or
resonance areas that you'd immediately spot in a waterfall. The supporting sort-of
good news is that I can move the subs-to-main xover point between 40 and 800 hz and
the issue remains unchanged.

While it's something I'd typically never consider, the room seems to then be a good
candidate for EQ. In fact, using a Protools 10/11 7-band dyn3 EQ in a monitor bus
I've been able to nearly elimate this issue. (Accurate monitoring is GOOD
monitoring.)

So I've heard of Trinnov and DEQX and similar solutions, but they all have way too
much stuff, AND I don't want to make another A-D, D-A trip to use such boxes.

My "fantasy" box would be a two (or three) SPDIF or AES-EBU in (simply for input
select convenience), and then a single SPDIF or AES-EBU out. I could use a host
computer to then adjust digital filter sets in the box.

Any suggestions? Sound system controller unit from a large commercial PA? Some sort
of tinkerer's DSP platform? (Due to lack of time, I'd rather not go too far down the
tinkering part and would prefer something off the shelf.)

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[Neil Gould]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just
> me, or is everyone bored with the trolls?
>
It's not just you, and pretty much.

Happy Easter,

Neil

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 09:26:03 -0500, Frank Stearns
> wrote:

>"Neil Gould" > writes:
>
>>Mike Rivers wrote:
>>> Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just
>>> me, or is everyone bored with the trolls?
>>>
>>It's not just you, and pretty much.
>>Happy Easter,
>
>
>Okay, if it's too quiet I'll through in something...
>
>The new room has been up and running for several months now and for most folks it'd
>be pretty darn good. But the old room was FLAT from 200 hz down, with a little
>ripple at the 21 hz port frequency of the subs, making things +/- 3 dB between 19 hz
>and 23 hz or so. I got spoiled by that performance over the 12 years I was in that
>room, that's for sure.
>
>The new room (same subs, mains, electronics; slightly different soffit design) has a
>gradual 5 dB rise starting at 300 hz and hitting +5 at 20 hz, and there's a funky
>little hiccup between 150 and 160 Hz or so.
>
>I've taken many measurements and adjusted traps. Can't get rid of these LF
>anomolies. That's the bad news.
>
>The GOOD news is that the waterfalls show that these issues propogate perfectly for
>600 milliseconds -- there are no twisting or reversing rising or falling or
>resonance areas that you'd immediately spot in a waterfall. The supporting sort-of
>good news is that I can move the subs-to-main xover point between 40 and 800 hz and
>the issue remains unchanged.
>
>While it's something I'd typically never consider, the room seems to then be a good
>candidate for EQ. In fact, using a Protools 10/11 7-band dyn3 EQ in a monitor bus
>I've been able to nearly elimate this issue. (Accurate monitoring is GOOD
>monitoring.)
>
>So I've heard of Trinnov and DEQX and similar solutions, but they all have way too
>much stuff, AND I don't want to make another A-D, D-A trip to use such boxes.
>
>My "fantasy" box would be a two (or three) SPDIF or AES-EBU in (simply for input
>select convenience), and then a single SPDIF or AES-EBU out. I could use a host
>computer to then adjust digital filter sets in the box.
>
>Any suggestions? Sound system controller unit from a large commercial PA? Some sort
>of tinkerer's DSP platform? (Due to lack of time, I'd rather not go too far down the
>tinkering part and would prefer something off the shelf.)
>
>Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>
>Frank
>Mobile Audio

Do you get this rising response at multiple points in the room, or
just one (even if that one is the centre of the desk)?. I've never
come across a room with a truly unflat response - investigation has
always revealed a mode between two (or more walls), and you can't eq
that away, because it is location-specific.

Anyway, I'm going to bet that you will find the cure in room
treatment, not eq.

What are the room dimensions?

d

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/5/2015 10:26 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:
> The new room has been up and running for several months now and for most folks it'd
> be pretty darn good. But the old room was FLAT from 200 hz down, with a little
> ripple at the 21 hz port frequency of the subs, making things ± 3 dB between 19 hz
> and 23 hz or so.

My, that's fabulous. With performance like that, you should be able to
hear all sorts of stuff that shouldn't oughta be there.

> The new room (same subs, mains, electronics; slightly different soffit design) has a
> gradual 5 dB rise starting at 300 hz and hitting +5 at 20 hz, and there's a funky
> little hiccup between 150 and 160 Hz or so.

> While it's something I'd typically never consider, the room seems to then be a good
> candidate for EQ. In fact, using a Protools 10/11 7-band dyn3 EQ in a monitor bus
> I've been able to nearly elimate this issue.

Does the waterfall plot still look about the same, timewise, with that
EQ inserted? In general, this is the sort of thing that you can get away
with using EQ to correct.

> My "fantasy" box would be a two (or three) SPDIF or AES-EBU in (simply for input
> select convenience), and then a single SPDIF or AES-EBU out. I could use a host
> computer to then adjust digital filter sets in the box.

I'd be inclined to use analog equalizers here. But that's me - keep it
simple.

There are a number of computer interfaces with a single digital input,
but not many with more than one. Could you use a mechanical switch to
select sources? You could get a 5 year old computer for $25-$50 and set
that up as your equalizer, maybe even using some geeky Linux application.



--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Rick Ruskin]

On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 06:11:16 -0700 (PDT), Mike Rivers
> wrote:

>Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just me, or is everyone bored with the trolls?

I check in but not liking roaches of any kind, I check out if I see
any "troll tracks."

Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music- Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
...
> Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just me, or
> is everyone bored with the trolls?

Don't forget to set your DVRs for the Sinatra mini-series tonight and
tomorrow.

Gary Eickmeier

[JackA]

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 5:31:28 PM UTC-4, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just me, or
> > is everyone bored with the trolls?
>
> Don't forget to set your DVRs for the Sinatra mini-series tonight and
> tomorrow.

Is it going to feature Frank singing Something Stupid, solo? I have to assume, after the recording, someone felt it would make a great Duet with his daughter, Nancy. The intro, after Frank asked to replace Glen Campbell (guitar work), sounded "beautiful". Feeling it would be interesting, I supplied the studio talk to Denny who heads The Wrecking Crew film.

Still want to hear "That's Life" at least as good as it sounded on a 1968 vinyl LP!!

Jack
>
> Gary Eickmeier

[[email protected]]

Gary Eckmier wrote: "Don't forget to set your DVRs for the Sinatra mini-series tonight"

What time and channel??? And what YEAR? Last time I checked
it aired over twenty years ago.

[JackA]

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 8:59:12 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Gary Eckmier wrote: "Don't forget to set your DVRs for the Sinatra mini-series tonight"
>
> What time and channel??? And what YEAR? Last time I checked
> it aired over twenty years ago.

Sorry, Frank didn't say "beautiful", but "pretty"...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/stupid-2.mp3

Jack

[Scott Dorsey]

Frank Stearns > wrote:
>The new room (same subs, mains, electronics; slightly different soffit design) has a
>gradual 5 dB rise starting at 300 hz and hitting +5 at 20 hz, and there's a funky
>little hiccup between 150 and 160 Hz or so.

And... let me guess... the the peaks and dips change as you move around
the room?

My guess is that you have something wrong below 20 Hz and what you are
seeing is comb filtering resulting from that. If you had more
frequency resolution and could look lower, it might be more clear.

>I've taken many measurements and adjusted traps. Can't get rid of these LF
>anomolies. That's the bad news.

I think you're looking too high up.

>The GOOD news is that the waterfalls show that these issues propogate perfectly for
>600 milliseconds -- there are no twisting or reversing rising or falling or
>resonance areas that you'd immediately spot in a waterfall. The supporting sort-of
>good news is that I can move the subs-to-main xover point between 40 and 800 hz and
>the issue remains unchanged.

Sounds more and more like a room mode.

>While it's something I'd typically never consider, the room seems to then be a good
>candidate for EQ. In fact, using a Protools 10/11 7-band dyn3 EQ in a monitor bus
>I've been able to nearly elimate this issue. (Accurate monitoring is GOOD
>monitoring.)

What did you do to nearly eliminate it? How many filters?


>My "fantasy" box would be a two (or three) SPDIF or AES-EBU in (simply for input
>select convenience), and then a single SPDIF or AES-EBU out. I could use a host
>computer to then adjust digital filter sets in the box.

JBL makes a number of speaker controller boxes that I think will do what you
want... and the truth is that this is the sort of thing that CAN pretty
much be fudged around with EQ because the wavelength is long and so people
aren't going to be moving in and out of peaks and dips much.

But... I do suggest a really really deep trap (not a resonator) just to
see if you can fix the sub-20 Hz problems.... and I also suggest looking
at the exact frequencies of the problems and doing some math to figure out
what the probable distance of the reflecting surfaces are, so you can
see what in the room is spaced that far apart.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

"Frank Stearns" > skrev i en meddelelse
...

> The new room (same subs, mains, electronics; slightly different
> soffit design) has a gradual 5 dB rise starting at 300 hz and
> hitting +5 at 20 hz, and there's a funky little hiccup between
> 150 and 160 Hz or so.

> I've taken many measurements and adjusted traps. Can't get
> rid of these LF anomolies. That's the bad news.

It is somewhat a luxury problem, I don't really know enough to follow up,
but let that stop me, nah ... this is usenet. I think you have the LF room
gain you're supposed to have and that the cause of it not being present in
your previous room was that the structure was not adequately rigid.

> While it's something I'd typically never consider, the room seems
> to then be a good candidate for EQ. In fact, using a Protools
> 10/11 7-band dyn3 EQ in a monitor bus I've been able to nearly
> elimate this issue. (Accurate monitoring is GOOD monitoring.)

You need a toy, get a Behringer DEQ 2496 and a ECM8000, there is a gazillion
of them out there and they are not all that costly second hand and even over
the counter it is cheap enough just to buy for fun. And you enter it
digitally if you want. There is also a humble quadrillion mods for it that
fixes varies cheapy-issues in it, but it is not bad sounding ex works, it is
in fact good enough that it is not readily detected in my secondary/triary
living room system and it is a good JBL L200 and L100 tamer.

Why you need it, first of all toys are fun, but next you need to be able to
push that problem around and it is - as I read the manual, not a lot and I
may have erred - not minimum phase, and that seems to be the best EQ for
your situation.

> My "fantasy" box would be a two (or three) SPDIF or AES-EBU in (simply for
> input
> select convenience), and then a single SPDIF or AES-EBU out. I could use a
> host
> computer to then adjust digital filter sets in the box.

And yes, you can also go digital out of it. AES. I don't quite agree in
their room curve, but there is one and if you want a different one, then
make your own pink noise with a twist.

> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Never get EQ quite right, leave a wee bit of the coloration for system
probability, last time I did what a measurement said I ended up moving a
couple of sliders a couple of dB back.

Nag me if you go that way, and I'll check what options I ended up using for
its autoeq that made it work and post them here.

> Frank
> Mobile Audio

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Gary Eickmeier]

> wrote in message
...
> Gary Eckmier wrote: "Don't forget to set your DVRs for the Sinatra
> mini-series tonight"
>
> What time and channel??? And what YEAR? Last time I checked
> it aired over twenty years ago.

It's on HBO at 8 O'Clock EDT.

Gary

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Frank Stearns" > wrote in message
...

> The new room (same subs, mains, electronics; slightly different soffit
> design) has a
> gradual 5 dB rise starting at 300 hz and hitting +5 at 20 hz, and there's
> a funky
> little hiccup between 150 and 160 Hz or so.

Frank a humble question/ suggestion - is it possible that you have more high
freq absorbent than in the previous room, leading to an apparent rise in low
freqs? Then the hiccup at 150 would be some distance to a wall somewhere.
May I ask, what is the size of the room and the speaker positions?

Gary

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article >,
Mike Rivers > wrote:
> Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just me,
> or is everyone bored with the trolls?


Away for Easter?

--
*Don't use no double negatives *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Ron C[_2_]]

On 4/6/2015 7:38 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article >,
> Mike Rivers > wrote:
>> Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just me,
>> or is everyone bored with the trolls?
>
>
> Away for Easter?
>
....but may rise again in a few days.

==
Later...
Ron Capik
--

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

Ron C > writes:

> On 4/6/2015 7:38 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Mike Rivers > wrote:
>>> Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just me,
>>> or is everyone bored with the trolls?
>>
>>
>> Away for Easter?
>>
> ...but may rise again in a few days.

+1
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Peter Larsen > wrote:
>"Frank Stearns" > skrev i en meddelelse
...
>
>> The new room (same subs, mains, electronics; slightly different
>> soffit design) has a gradual 5 dB rise starting at 300 hz and
>> hitting +5 at 20 hz, and there's a funky little hiccup between
>> 150 and 160 Hz or so.
>
>> I've taken many measurements and adjusted traps. Can't get
>> rid of these LF anomolies. That's the bad news.
>
>It is somewhat a luxury problem, I don't really know enough to follow up,
>but let that stop me, nah ... this is usenet. I think you have the LF room
>gain you're supposed to have and that the cause of it not being present in
>your previous room was that the structure was not adequately rigid.

That room gain should be a rise, not multiple rises with wiggles. I think
he's got a minor issue but it's lower than he's looking.

>> While it's something I'd typically never consider, the room seems
>> to then be a good candidate for EQ. In fact, using a Protools
>> 10/11 7-band dyn3 EQ in a monitor bus I've been able to nearly
>> elimate this issue. (Accurate monitoring is GOOD monitoring.)
>
>You need a toy, get a Behringer DEQ 2496 and a ECM8000, there is a gazillion
>of them out there and they are not all that costly second hand and even over
>the counter it is cheap enough just to buy for fun. And you enter it
>digitally if you want. There is also a humble quadrillion mods for it that
>fixes varies cheapy-issues in it, but it is not bad sounding ex works, it is
>in fact good enough that it is not readily detected in my secondary/triary
>living room system and it is a good JBL L200 and L100 tamer.
>
>Why you need it, first of all toys are fun, but next you need to be able to
>push that problem around and it is - as I read the manual, not a lot and I
>may have erred - not minimum phase, and that seems to be the best EQ for
>your situation.

I think you are right about the DEQ 2496, but I'd get something better than
the ECM8000. However, I'd ignore all the autoeq stuff.

But I'd still keep looking at the room, and I'd look for the lowest frequency
with the problem and then translate that into a distance and start looking
for things with that distance.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[geoff]

On 8/04/2015 3:34 a.m., Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Peter Larsen > wrote:
>> "Frank Stearns" > skrev i en meddelelse
>> ...
>>
>>> The new room (same subs, mains, electronics; slightly different
>>> soffit design) has a gradual 5 dB rise starting at 300 hz and
>>> hitting +5 at 20 hz, and there's a funky little hiccup between
>>> 150 and 160 Hz or so.
>>
>>> I've taken many measurements and adjusted traps. Can't get
>>> rid of these LF anomolies. That's the bad news.
>>
>> It is somewhat a luxury problem, I don't really know enough to follow up,
>> but let that stop me, nah ... this is usenet. I think you have the LF room
>> gain you're supposed to have and that the cause of it not being present in
>> your previous room was that the structure was not adequately rigid.
>
> That room gain should be a rise, not multiple rises with wiggles. I think
> he's got a minor issue but it's lower than he's looking.
>
>>> While it's something I'd typically never consider, the room seems
>>> to then be a good candidate for EQ. In fact, using a Protools
>>> 10/11 7-band dyn3 EQ in a monitor bus I've been able to nearly
>>> elimate this issue. (Accurate monitoring is GOOD monitoring.)
>>
>> You need a toy, get a Behringer DEQ 2496 and a ECM8000, there is a gazillion
>> of them out there and they are not all that costly second hand and even over
>> the counter it is cheap enough just to buy for fun. And you enter it
>> digitally if you want. There is also a humble quadrillion mods for it that
>> fixes varies cheapy-issues in it, but it is not bad sounding ex works, it is
>> in fact good enough that it is not readily detected in my secondary/triary
>> living room system and it is a good JBL L200 and L100 tamer.
>>
>> Why you need it, first of all toys are fun, but next you need to be able to
>> push that problem around and it is - as I read the manual, not a lot and I
>> may have erred - not minimum phase, and that seems to be the best EQ for
>> your situation.
>
> I think you are right about the DEQ 2496, but I'd get something better than
> the ECM8000. However, I'd ignore all the autoeq stuff.
>
> But I'd still keep looking at the room, and I'd look for the lowest frequency
> with the problem and then translate that into a distance and start looking
> for things with that distance.
> --scott

DEQX and calibrated mic file from Earthworks is the dog's ******** .

The DEQX eqs and time-aligns speakers, and does the rooms for good measure.

geoff

geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff > wrote:
>
>DEQX and calibrated mic file from Earthworks is the dog's ******** .
>
>The DEQX eqs and time-aligns speakers, and does the rooms for good measure.

I'm sorry, I have never heard an automatic room eq gadget that ever
actually sounded better than having the eq disabled.

I _have_ heard rooms that were carefully equalized by someone who did
careful placement of a couple limited EQ poles that managed to make the
room sound better, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just me, or
>is everyone bored with the trolls?
>

My newsreader went wonky, and until today I didn't have time to try
again, after several failed attempts.

I'm still not sure it's working properly, and I intend to gather with Al
Evans to see if we can figure out why.

The trolling is offensive. That people continue to engage is
disappointing.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[hank alrich]

Gary Eickmeier > wrote:

> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Haven't seen anything come through here for a few days. Is it just me, or
> > is everyone bored with the trolls?
>
> Don't forget to set your DVRs for the Sinatra mini-series tonight and
> tomorrow.
>
> Gary Eickmeier

I quit TV and related variants in 1959, excepting a window for the
Smother Bros.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> On 4/5/2015 10:26 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:
> > The new room has been up and running for several months now and for most
> > folks it'd be pretty darn good. But the old room was FLAT from 200 hz
> > down, with a little ripple at the 21 hz port frequency of the subs,
> > making things ± 3 dB between 19 hz and 23 hz or so.
>
> My, that's fabulous. With performance like that, you should be able to
> hear all sorts of stuff that shouldn't oughta be there.

Listen, Banjo Man, for the pipe organ… ;-)

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic