Not Loudness Wars, but Softness Wars

[JackA]

Many a CD I have is just too low in volume. Lots of these, though the content is great, the volume is just too low. And, no, turning up the volume doesn't help.
Not sure what was used to gauge amplitude on CD. This is from an MCA Vintage Music Series CD, Mastered by Steve Hoffman...

1965 - The Spokesmen - Dawn of Correction (stereo)

The initial waveform:
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/dawn-b.jpg
The initial audio:
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/dawn-b.mp3
Modified audio:
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/dawncorrection-s.mp3

Actually, I never got to hear this song on radio, it is one of those "answer" songs. Sadly, (member) John Madara reissued the album, on CD, in monophonic.

Jack

[[email protected]]

You can probably make that loud enough without having
to clip any of the peaks.

[JackA]

On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 9:28:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> You can probably make that loud enough without having
> to clip any of the peaks.

No peaks trimmed, just a dynamic boost and volume increase. Trust me, you have to struggle to get these to sound decent. And if these sound so good, maybe you can explain why they are sold so cheaply? I mean, after all, this is Steve Hoffman's mastering - should satisfy every audiophile in the world!! :)

Jack

[Ralph Barone[_2_]]

JackA > wrote:
> Many a CD I have is just too low in volume. Lots of these, though the
> content is great, the volume is just too low. And, no, turning up the volume doesn't help.
> Not sure what was used to gauge amplitude on CD. This is from an MCA
> Vintage Music Series CD, Mastered by Steve Hoffman...
>
> 1965 - The Spokesmen - Dawn of Correction (stereo)
>
> The initial waveform:
> http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/dawn-b.jpg
> The initial audio:
> http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/dawn-b.mp3
> Modified audio:
> http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/dawncorrection-s.mp3
>
> Actually, I never got to hear this song on radio, it is one of those
> "answer" songs. Sadly, (member) John Madara reissued the album, on CD, in monophonic.
>
> Jack

Trying to alienate the one person left on this NG that's still paying
attention to you, I assume?

[geoff]

On 23/03/2015 2:28 p.m., wrote:
> You can probably make that loud enough without having
> to clip any of the peaks.
>


And you can add significant amounts of compression, even
hyper-compression, without "clipping the peaks".

geoff

[Trevor]

On 23/03/2015 6:17 PM, geoff wrote:
> On 23/03/2015 2:28 p.m., wrote:
>> You can probably make that loud enough without having
>> to clip any of the peaks.
>>
>
>
> And you can add significant amounts of compression, even
> hyper-compression, without "clipping the peaks".


Sure, but the current practice is often to deliberately do both, as
viewing any pop CD will show.

Trevor.

[[email protected]]

3:17 AM geoff wrote"
On 23/03/2015 2:28 p.m., wrote:
> You can probably make that loud enough without having
> to clip any of the peaks.
>


And you can add significant amounts of compression, even
hyper-compression, without "clipping the peaks".

geoff "


But why would one want to? The appropriate processing,
as determined back when it was made, was already done.

[Scott Dorsey]

> wrote:
>3:17 AM geoff wrote"
>On 23/03/2015 2:28 p.m., wrote:
>> You can probably make that loud enough without having
>> to clip any of the peaks.
>
>And you can add significant amounts of compression, even
>hyper-compression, without "clipping the peaks".
>
>But why would one want to? The appropriate processing,
>as determined back when it was made, was already done.

Well, for example, if you're a classical radio station. You have source
material with very wide range, and you have listeners who are mostly in
the car who can't benefit from that wide range. So you need to reduce it,
but you need to do it with a slow AGC-style compressor (or with manual
gain riding) in an inoffensive manner. You can actually crush it pretty
far without any real artifacts because you're starting with something that
is so dynamic to begin with, but you have to do it slowly and in a couple
different stages.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

Scott Dorsey:

If it's a radio station doing it that's one thing.
I'm talking about not doing it to the actual
album or songs.

[geoff]

On 24/03/2015 3:09 a.m., wrote:
> 3:17 AM geoff wrote"
> On 23/03/2015 2:28 p.m., wrote:
>> You can probably make that loud enough without having
>> to clip any of the peaks.
>>
>
>
> And you can add significant amounts of compression, even
> hyper-compression, without "clipping the peaks".
>
> geoff "
>
>
> But why would one want to? The appropriate processing,
> as determined back when it was made, was already done.
>


Says who - you ? Or the producer ?

geoff

[[email protected]]

On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> On 24/03/2015 3:09 a.m., wrote:
> > 3:17 AM geoff wrote"
> > On 23/03/2015 2:28 p.m., wrote:
> >> You can probably make that loud enough without having
> >> to clip any of the peaks.
> >>
> >
> >
> > And you can add significant amounts of compression, even
> > hyper-compression, without "clipping the peaks".
> >
> > geoff "
> >
> >
> > But why would one want to? The appropriate processing,
> > as determined back when it was made, was already done.
> >
>
>
> Says who - you ? Or the producer ?
>
> geoff

i'll play devils advocate for a sec...

he is someone actually more important than the producer...
he is the ultimate customer buying the product.

bt it is true, your customer is the producer ..

he is the producers customer

he should be taking up his grievances with
the producer and not with the engineers..

but we have tried to tell him that already.


Mark

[JackA]

On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 4:20:51 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> > On 24/03/2015 3:09 a.m., wrote:
> > > 3:17 AM geoff wrote"
> > > On 23/03/2015 2:28 p.m., wrote:
> > >> You can probably make that loud enough without having
> > >> to clip any of the peaks.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > And you can add significant amounts of compression, even
> > > hyper-compression, without "clipping the peaks".
> > >
> > > geoff "
> > >
> > >
> > > But why would one want to? The appropriate processing,
> > > as determined back when it was made, was already done.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Says who - you ? Or the producer ?
> >
> > geoff
>
> i'll play devils advocate for a sec...
>
> he is someone actually more important than the producer...
> he is the ultimate customer buying the product.
>
> bt it is true, your customer is the producer ..
>
> he is the producers customer
>
> he should be taking up his grievances with
> the producer and not with the engineers..
>
> but we have tried to tell him that already.

The way I hear it, the group decides what is/isn't acceptable.

Jack

>
>
> Mark

[JackA]

On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 10:09:21 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> 3:17 AM geoff wrote"
> On 23/03/2015 2:28 p.m., wrote:
> > You can probably make that loud enough without having
> > to clip any of the peaks.
> >
>
>
> And you can add significant amounts of compression, even
> hyper-compression, without "clipping the peaks".
>
> geoff "
>
>
> But why would one want to? The appropriate processing,
> as determined back when it was made, was already done.

Because soft/tame music bores the heck out of people, especially Pop music.
Either you trim/compress or add more instruments (and/or singing). Why do you think everyone needed a ton of recording tracks about the '70's? Or, why do you think so many overdubbed when only a handful of recording track were available?
I think of music in two ways, how dense the sound and it's amplitude.

Jack

[JackA]

On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 10:03:26 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
> JackA > wrote:
> > Many a CD I have is just too low in volume. Lots of these, though the
> > content is great, the volume is just too low. And, no, turning up the volume doesn't help.
> > Not sure what was used to gauge amplitude on CD. This is from an MCA
> > Vintage Music Series CD, Mastered by Steve Hoffman...
> >
> > 1965 - The Spokesmen - Dawn of Correction (stereo)
> >
> > The initial waveform:
> > http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/dawn-b.jpg
> > The initial audio:
> > http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/dawn-b.mp3
> > Modified audio:
> > http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/dawncorrection-s.mp3
> >
> > Actually, I never got to hear this song on radio, it is one of those
> > "answer" songs. Sadly, (member) John Madara reissued the album, on CD, in monophonic.
> >
> > Jack
>
> Trying to alienate the one person left on this NG that's still paying
> attention to you, I assume?

No, you are paying attention, too.

Jack

[Scott Dorsey]

JackA > wrote:
>
>The way I hear it, the group decides what is/isn't acceptable.

The man with the money decides what is acceptable. This has good and bad
consequences. Seneca had something to say about this.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

Scottso:

Seneca - link?

[John Williamson]

On 24/03/2015 14:02, wrote:
> Scottso:
>
> Seneca - link?
>
JFGI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[geoff]

On 25/03/2015 12:00 a.m., JackA wrote:

>
> The way I hear it, the group decides what is/isn't acceptable.

If the producer isn't given full final authority, then in the long run
it's who pays the money does. may be the artist(s). May not.

geoff

[JackA]

On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 4:20:07 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> On 25/03/2015 12:00 a.m., JackA wrote:
>
> >
> > The way I hear it, the group decides what is/isn't acceptable.
>
> If the producer isn't given full final authority, then in the long run
> it's who pays the money does. may be the artist(s). May not.

I agree, it can vary!! You want to hear a Producer in action when a recording has problems?...

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/thousand.mp3

Jack

>
> geoff

[[email protected]]

John Williamson wrote: "On 24/03/2015 14:02, wrote:
> Scottso:
>
> Seneca - link?
>
JFGI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger

--
Tciao for Now!

John. "


JFGI??

[None]

> wrote in message
...
> John Williamson wrote: "On 24/03/2015 14:02,
> wrote:
>> Scottso:
>>
>> Seneca - link?
>>
> JFGI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John. "
>
>
> JFGI??

Is the short-bus dumb**** who writes infantile things like "LOLOLOL"
and "smh" going to pull his usual hypocrisy and whine about initials
and acronyms, like he usually does?

[JackA]

On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 7:17:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> John Williamson wrote: "On 24/03/2015 14:02, wrote:
> > Scottso:
> >
> > Seneca - link?
> >
> JFGI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John. "
>
>
> JFGI??

JUST F'N GOOGLE IT! :-)

Jack

[John Williamson]

On 25/03/2015 23:16, wrote:
> John Williamson wrote: "On 24/03/2015 14:02, wrote:
>> Scottso:
>>
>> Seneca - link?
>>
> JFGI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger
>
--
Tciao for Now!

John. "


JFGI??

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=JFGI

[[email protected]]

Mar 25 JackA wrote:
"- show quoted text -
JUST F'N GOOGLE IT! :-)

Jack "

I give up on this lazy century...

Is saving FIVE seconds that critical
to just typing it out in full???

[None]

< Krissi-Dumb****i @ shortbus.edu > wrote in message
...
>> JUST F'N GOOGLE IT! :-)
> I give up on this lazy century...

If only that were true!

> Is saving FIVE seconds that critical
> to just typing it out in full???

Ask yourself. Why do you do it? Does it only **** you off when others
do it? Are you too stupid to acknowledge your hypocrisy? YWKMWFHM?

[JackA]

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 6:27:06 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Mar 25 JackA wrote:
> "- show quoted text -
> JUST F'N GOOGLE IT! :-)
>
> Jack "
>
> I give up on this lazy century...
>
> Is saving FIVE seconds that critical
> to just typing it out in full???

"F'N", you mean?? :-)

I'm just amazed how many, even the elderly, seems their only lifeline is a cell phone. Me, at my ripe old age, like to learn rather than yip-yap or "text" all the time. But, you are correct, or as I see it, we're a decaying society. No longer any superpower. These days, I'm not impressed by what is, "Made In the USA".

Jack

Jack

[JackA]

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 6:27:06 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Mar 25 JackA wrote:
> "- show quoted text -
> JUST F'N GOOGLE IT! :-)
>
> Jack "
>
> I give up on this lazy century...
>
> Is saving FIVE seconds that critical
> to just typing it out in full???

FAIK, it may have saved SIX seconds :-)

Sorry for the previous reply, I THOUGHT John wrote what you did.

Jack

[[email protected]]

JackA wrote: "FAIK, it may have saved SIX seconds :-) "

****, you do it too!

[None]

> wrote in message
...
> JackA wrote: "FAIK, it may have saved SIX seconds :-) "
>
> ****, you do it too!

****, you do it too. That's why your crybaby whining about it is even
more hilarious than your usual dumb****ery.

[geoff]

On 28/03/2015 10:58 a.m., None wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> JackA wrote: "FAIK, it may have saved SIX seconds :-) "
>>
>> ****, you do it too!
>
> ****, you do it too. That's why your crybaby whining about it is even
> more hilarious than your usual dumb****ery.


So many things in common .....

geoff