Adding a mixer through a mic input.

[Charles Lemon]

Maybe someone here can give me the scoop on this one. I am trying to
add a few mic/instrument inputs to my church PA system for a
performance coming up in November. Unfortunatly, the main mixing
board (Behringer 20 channel (?) passive board into PA amp), is miles
away from the sanctuary behind 2 sets of doors (gotta love planning!).

There are 3 open XLR wall-mount jacks in the sanctuary. I would like
to somehow patch my Realistic 32-1210 unbalanced mixer into one of
these jacks to provide more inputs for the players. My outputs are:
Main Out = stereo (i.e L + R) RCA jacks; Mono Out = mono RCA jack; and
Tape Out = stereo RCA jacks.

Checking with my local shops, I have alternately been told that a) it
can't be done; (b) it can be done with a series of adapters
(rca->1/4", 1/4"->XLR); and (c) it can be done only with a direct box
(DI).

Which, if any, of these is correct? I appreciate any suggestions o
this one. I am new to this stuff, so I'm swimming in info overload!

[Wayne]

>Maybe someone here can give me the scoop on this one. I am trying to
>add a few mic/instrument inputs to my church PA system for a
>performance coming up in November. Unfortunatly, the main mixing
>board (Behringer 20 channel (?) passive board into PA amp), is miles
>away from the sanctuary behind 2 sets of doors (gotta love planning!).
>
>There are 3 open XLR wall-mount jacks in the sanctuary. I would like
>to somehow patch my Realistic 32-1210 unbalanced mixer into one of
>these jacks to provide more inputs for the players. My outputs are:
>Main Out = stereo (i.e L + R) RCA jacks; Mono Out = mono RCA jack; and
>Tape Out = stereo RCA jacks.


Where is the RS mixer gonna be located in reference to the Behringer?

>Checking with my local shops, I have alternately been told that a) it
>can't be done; (b) it can be done with a series of adapters
>(rca->1/4", 1/4"->XLR); and (c) it can be done only with a direct box
>(DI).
>
>Which, if any, of these is correct? I appreciate any suggestions o
>this one. I am new to this stuff, so I'm swimming in info overload!
>
>
>

Assuming the RS mixer is gonna be set and forgotten, you just need RCA to Phone
cords to insert into a direct box. Use XLR mic cable from there to the
Behringer and bring it up on a mic input.

The longest run needs to be balanced (DI-XLR mic cable) or you're gonna suffer
on noise, signal loss, interference, etc. Sometimes it isn't real pretty.


--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-

[Patric D'Eimon]

with unquestioned accuracy of thought, Wayne replied:

>> Maybe someone here can give me the scoop on this one. I am trying to
>> add a few mic/instrument inputs to my church PA system for a
>> performance coming up in November. Unfortunatly, the main mixing
>> board (Behringer 20 channel (?) passive board into PA amp), is miles
>> away from the sanctuary behind 2 sets of doors (gotta love planning!).
>>
>> There are 3 open XLR wall-mount jacks in the sanctuary. I would like
>> to somehow patch my Realistic 32-1210 unbalanced mixer into one of
>> these jacks to provide more inputs for the players. My outputs are:
>> Main Out = stereo (i.e L + R) RCA jacks; Mono Out = mono RCA jack; and
>> Tape Out = stereo RCA jacks.
>
>
> Where is the RS mixer gonna be located in reference to the Behringer?
>
>> Checking with my local shops, I have alternately been told that a) it
>> can't be done; (b) it can be done with a series of adapters
>> (rca->1/4", 1/4"->XLR); and (c) it can be done only with a direct box
>> (DI).
>>
>> Which, if any, of these is correct? I appreciate any suggestions o
>> this one. I am new to this stuff, so I'm swimming in info overload!
>>
>>
>>
>
> Assuming the RS mixer is gonna be set and forgotten, you just need RCA to
> Phone
> cords to insert into a direct box. Use XLR mic cable from there to the
> Behringer and bring it up on a mic input.
>
> The longest run needs to be balanced (DI-XLR mic cable) or you're gonna suffer
> on noise, signal loss, interference, etc. Sometimes it isn't real pretty.
>
>
> --Wayne
>
> -"sounded good to me"-
It can be done just fine. Take the output of the Realistic to the XLR on
the wall. The XLR is just wire. So far it has nothing to do with
microphone level. however...try to get the signal at the other end to
connect to a LINE IN rather than a mic input. The Behringer probably has a
couple of stereo channels. put it into one of those or the TAPE IN (RCA)
connector that all these new boards have.

So, it is 1/4" out of the Realistic, either TRS if that's what it is or 2
1/4" mono plugs to the XLR on the wall.

Use XLR from the other wall to 2 mono 1/4" plugs on the other end. It
should be that simple.

I would suggest forgeting about Stereo. Just take one side of the Realistic
and come into one line input on the Behringer. On a live board for and
auditorium, stereo is seldom required or even useful. Make it simple and
direct.

That's what I think...Patric

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Maybe someone here can give me the scoop on this one. I am trying to
> add a few mic/instrument inputs to my church PA system for a
> performance coming up in November. Unfortunatly, the main mixing
> board (Behringer 20 channel (?) passive board into PA amp), is miles
> away from the sanctuary behind 2 sets of doors (gotta love planning!).
>
> There are 3 open XLR wall-mount jacks in the sanctuary. I would like
> to somehow patch my Realistic 32-1210 unbalanced mixer into one of
> these jacks to provide more inputs for the players.

> Checking with my local shops, I have alternately been told that a) it
> can't be done; (b) it can be done with a series of adapters
> (rca->1/4", 1/4"->XLR); and (c) it can be done only with a direct box
> (DI).

The main thing you want to do is keep the long cable run balanced. You
will also need to drop the voltage level so that the output of your
mixer doesn't overload the input stages of the church sound system.

A transformer is the best way to do both, but a resistive attenuator
costs less and will probably also work. A DI is a transformer or
something that behaves like one.

While it's not a very good way to operate your mixer, you can get the
signal level into the church sound system's working range simply by
pulling the master fader fader way down. The meters won't tell you
anything useful, but at least you'll be able to use it without any
additional cost. Give it a try some time.

First, though, check your mixer to see if there's a switch that
changes the main XLR from line to mic level. If it's a good copy of at
least some Mackie mixers, maybe they copied that, too.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Romeo Rondeau]

All of these things are incorrect, but I would take option (c) only if you
DON'T have the option of running into line inputs on the mixer, or the cable
run is REAL long. 'Course, you could always take the easy way out and tell
them option (a) :-)

..
> Checking with my local shops, I have alternately been told that a) it
> can't be done; (b) it can be done with a series of adapters
> (rca->1/4", 1/4"->XLR); and (c) it can be done only with a direct box
> (DI).
>
> Which, if any, of these is correct? I appreciate any suggestions o
> this one. I am new to this stuff, so I'm swimming in info overload!

[S O'Neill]

I don't *even* want to think about a 20-channel *passive* mixer, but here's a
possible solution, basically option C.

Since you're using Rat Shak, they sell a 1:1 transformer real cheap. Go out of
the RS board to the transformer, then connect the transformer secondary across
pins 2 and 3 on the XLR; leave pin 1 floating.

If the Behringer does not have balanced inputs put an identical transformer
there, pins 2 and 3 on one winding, the input and its ground on the other. If
they are balanced, just plug it in. Use the Mic input and maybe an attenuator,
or use a line input, you'll have to experiment since there's no clue what kind
of wire they used or exactly how many miles it is.

Connect the grounds (Behringer and XLR pin 1) together only at the Behringer.

Do this twice for stereo.

This gives you a real balanced line, necessary for the distance, with ground
isolation so there's no ground loop. The only problem is that these
transformers aren't very good, but neither are the mixers.


Charles Lemon wrote:

> Maybe someone here can give me the scoop on this one. I am trying to
> add a few mic/instrument inputs to my church PA system for a
> performance coming up in November. Unfortunatly, the main mixing
> board (Behringer 20 channel (?) passive board into PA amp), is miles
> away from the sanctuary behind 2 sets of doors (gotta love planning!).
>
> There are 3 open XLR wall-mount jacks in the sanctuary. I would like
> to somehow patch my Realistic 32-1210 unbalanced mixer into one of
> these jacks to provide more inputs for the players. My outputs are:
> Main Out = stereo (i.e L + R) RCA jacks; Mono Out = mono RCA jack; and
> Tape Out = stereo RCA jacks.
>
> Checking with my local shops, I have alternately been told that a) it
> can't be done; (b) it can be done with a series of adapters
> (rca->1/4", 1/4"->XLR); and (c) it can be done only with a direct box
> (DI).
>
> Which, if any, of these is correct? I appreciate any suggestions o
> this one. I am new to this stuff, so I'm swimming in info overload!

[P Stamler]

First off, the Behringer isn't a passive mixer. It's unpowered, meaning it
doesn't have the power amplifiers necessary to drive speakers, but that's a
whole different issue.

Given that you're fairly new to this, you probably don't want to do a lot of
building, with the possibility that something could go fubar. You could try
getting a decent DI box and connecting its 1/4" instrument input to the Mono
Out jack of your Radio Shack mixer, which would entail the use of an RCA-Male >
1/4" male cable, then plugging a microphone cable into the DI's output XLR jack
and one of the XLR jacks in the sanctuary.

The down side of this is that the Radio Shack mixer is, not to put too fine a
point on it, awful, and your results will suffer accordingly. I think there are
only two possibilities for decent quality: find a way to run a snake from the
sanctuary back to the Behringer, or rent a decent mixer from someplace in town
and use a DI as indicated above, with variations depending on the output of the
mixer.

Or, another possibility: Pull the Behringer and bring it out front, using the
built-in XLR line to run straight into the PA amp. The Behringer's output
impedance should be low enough to do that. Might have to mess around with
adapters, but that'd probably be the highest-quality solution given what you
have to work with.

Peace,
Paul

[S O'Neill]

Thanks, he said "passive", I didn't know what he meant; I don't see a lot of
powered mixers these days.

P Stamler wrote:

> First off, the Behringer isn't a passive mixer. It's unpowered, meaning it
> doesn't have the power amplifiers necessary to drive speakers, but that's a
> whole different issue.