Problem Advents

[paulfuchs@spamain'tkosher.oink]

Maybe somebody here might have a usefull suggetion.

I have a pair of Advent Legacy speakers which I bought in the late 80's,
new, driven by an SR-3A Nakamichi receiver. About 16 years ago the foam
in the woofers basically disintegrated and I had them rebuilt by a lab
in PA, can't remember the name. They sounded really great afterwards.
Anyway, they sound pretty bad now - sort of mushy and fuzzy.. Can't
make out the lyrics easily to well produced songs. The foam around the
woofers still looks perfect. I have Audio-technica headphones and the
receiver is very clear through them. I played some music through the
Advents at volume and headphones at the same time to see if the clarity
was breaking down with a load larger than the headphones, and the
Advents sounded fuzzy and the A-T's sounded clear. Any ideas regarding
cleaning the sound of these babies up? Gotten attached to them over the
last 35 years:-)

[Dave Platt[_2_]]

In article ink>,
> wrote:

>Maybe somebody here might have a usefull suggetion.
>
>I have a pair of Advent Legacy speakers which I bought in the late 80's,
>new, driven by an SR-3A Nakamichi receiver. About 16 years ago the foam
>in the woofers basically disintegrated and I had them rebuilt by a lab
>in PA, can't remember the name. They sounded really great afterwards.
> Anyway, they sound pretty bad now - sort of mushy and fuzzy.. Can't
>make out the lyrics easily to well produced songs. The foam around the
>woofers still looks perfect. I have Audio-technica headphones and the
>receiver is very clear through them. I played some music through the
>Advents at volume and headphones at the same time to see if the clarity
>was breaking down with a load larger than the headphones, and the
>Advents sounded fuzzy and the A-T's sounded clear. Any ideas regarding
>cleaning the sound of these babies up? Gotten attached to them over the
>last 35 years:-)

First thing I'd check, is to see if they still sound bad when played
on another receiver... they probably will but it's good "due
diligence" to make sure that the problem is entirely isolated to the
speakers.

"Mushy and fuzzy" isn't a terribly precise definition of the problem,
so I'll just suggest a number of things which *might* go wrong with
the speakers which *might* account for this description.

- Another failure of the foam surround. If the foam disintegrates,
or the glue junction between the foam and diaphragm (or foam and
frame) breaks, air will leak out as the driver moves back and
forth. This will wreck the "acoustic suspension" spring action of
the air inside the enclosure, and may also make chuffing or
whoofing sounds. If "mushy and fuzzy" includes "sounds as if the
speakers are farting when the bassist hits a low note" this is
something to check :-)

15 years isn't a bad lifetime for foam surrounds, alas... it's
possible that the replacements are failing again.

- Air leak elsewhere in the cabinet (again, this wrecks the acoustic
suspension system).

- The woofer voice-coil suspensions may have sagged with age,
allowing the voice coil to rub against the magnet assembly or
frame. This results in nasty-sounding distortion.

You can sometimes detect this by *gently* pressing in on the woofer
diaphragm, right around the dust cap in the center, with the
receiver turned off. Press straight in and release, slowly, and
don't overdoit. If you sense a gritty-feeling "something is
rubbing" sensation, or hear a scraping, then this is your problem.

It's sometimes possible to have such drivers repaired (similar to a
re-coning but it may require replacing the "spider" as well).

- The tweeters may not be working right. If the speaker system was
overdriven to excessively high volumes, the tweeter voice coils
might have overheated and burned (leading to warping and rubbing)
or actually burned out.

Some tweeters can have their voice coils replaced; in other cases
it's necessary to replace the tweeter with a compatible one (if you
can find one - crossover changes may be required).

- Component failure in the crossover(s) - a dried-out electrolytic
capacitor would be the likeliest, I think.

- Blown fuse in the crossover (if the speaker has 'em for
protection), shutting down the tweeter. Fuses do wear out with age
and need to be replaced.

- Advents, being classic rock-era speakers, may not like modern music
and might be refusing to play it out of distaste :-)

[Tim Schwartz[_2_]]

On 2/4/2015 4:25 PM, wrote:
> Maybe somebody here might have a useful suggestion.
>
> I have a pair of Advent Legacy speakers which I bought in the late 80's,
> new, driven by an SR-3A Nakamichi receiver. About 16 years ago the foam
> in the woofers basically disintegrated and I had them rebuilt by a lab
> in PA, can't remember the name. They sounded really great afterwards.
> Anyway, they sound pretty bad now - sort of mushy and fuzzy.. Can't
> make out the lyrics easily to well produced songs. The foam around the
> woofers still looks perfect. I have Audio-technica headphones and the
> receiver is very clear through them. I played some music through the
> Advents at volume and headphones at the same time to see if the clarity
> was breaking down with a load larger than the headphones, and the
> Advents sounded fuzzy and the A-T's sounded clear. Any ideas regarding
> cleaning the sound of these babies up? Gotten attached to them over the
> last 35 years:-)
>

Hello,

I agree with what Dave Platt said. there is also the possibility of a
tweeter or crossover problem. You can check that both tweeters are
working by listening up close, you should be able to hear sound coming
from the tweeter.

I'm guessing that the speaker rebuilder you used was Bill LeGall at
Millersound:

http://www.millersound.net/contact.htm

I've had great service from him.

Regards,
Tim Schwartz

[paulfuchs@spamain'tkosher.oink]

Dave Platt > wrote:

> In article ink>,
> > wrote:
>
> >Maybe somebody here might have a usefull suggetion.
> >
> >I have a pair of Advent Legacy speakers which I bought in the late 80's,
> >new, driven by an SR-3A Nakamichi receiver. About 16 years ago the foam
> >in the woofers basically disintegrated and I had them rebuilt by a lab
> >in PA, can't remember the name. They sounded really great afterwards.
> > Anyway, they sound pretty bad now - sort of mushy and fuzzy.. Can't
> >make out the lyrics easily to well produced songs. The foam around the
> >woofers still looks perfect. I have Audio-technica headphones and the
> >receiver is very clear through them. I played some music through the
> >Advents at volume and headphones at the same time to see if the clarity
> >was breaking down with a load larger than the headphones, and the
> >Advents sounded fuzzy and the A-T's sounded clear. Any ideas regarding
> >cleaning the sound of these babies up? Gotten attached to them over the
> >last 35 years:-)
>
> First thing I'd check, is to see if they still sound bad when played
> on another receiver... they probably will but it's good "due
> diligence" to make sure that the problem is entirely isolated to the
> speakers.
>
> "Mushy and fuzzy" isn't a terribly precise definition of the problem,
> so I'll just suggest a number of things which *might* go wrong with
> the speakers which *might* account for this description.
>
> - Another failure of the foam surround. If the foam disintegrates,
> or the glue junction between the foam and diaphragm (or foam and
> frame) breaks, air will leak out as the driver moves back and
> forth. This will wreck the "acoustic suspension" spring action of
> the air inside the enclosure, and may also make chuffing or
> whoofing sounds. If "mushy and fuzzy" includes "sounds as if the
> speakers are farting when the bassist hits a low note" this is
> something to check :-)
>
> 15 years isn't a bad lifetime for foam surrounds, alas... it's
> possible that the replacements are failing again.
>
> - Air leak elsewhere in the cabinet (again, this wrecks the acoustic
> suspension system).
>
> - The woofer voice-coil suspensions may have sagged with age,
> allowing the voice coil to rub against the magnet assembly or
> frame. This results in nasty-sounding distortion.
>
> You can sometimes detect this by *gently* pressing in on the woofer
> diaphragm, right around the dust cap in the center, with the
> receiver turned off. Press straight in and release, slowly, and
> don't overdoit. If you sense a gritty-feeling "something is
> rubbing" sensation, or hear a scraping, then this is your problem.
>
> It's sometimes possible to have such drivers repaired (similar to a
> re-coning but it may require replacing the "spider" as well).
>
> - The tweeters may not be working right. If the speaker system was
> overdriven to excessively high volumes, the tweeter voice coils
> might have overheated and burned (leading to warping and rubbing)
> or actually burned out.
>
> Some tweeters can have their voice coils replaced; in other cases
> it's necessary to replace the tweeter with a compatible one (if you
> can find one - crossover changes may be required).
>
> - Component failure in the crossover(s) - a dried-out electrolytic
> capacitor would be the likeliest, I think.
>
> - Blown fuse in the crossover (if the speaker has 'em for
> protection), shutting down the tweeter. Fuses do wear out with age
> and need to be replaced.
>
> - Advents, being classic rock-era speakers, may not like modern music
> and might be refusing to play it out of distaste :-)

Thanks for the time and effort you put into your answer. Greatly
appreciated.

[paulfuchs@spamain'tkosher.oink]

Thanks to everyone here who gave great detailed, and actionable
responses.

> wrote:

> Dave Platt > wrote:
>
> > In article ink>,
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >Maybe somebody here might have a usefull suggetion.
> > >
> > >I have a pair of Advent Legacy speakers which I bought in the late 80's,
> > >new, driven by an SR-3A Nakamichi receiver. About 16 years ago the foam
> > >in the woofers basically disintegrated and I had them rebuilt by a lab
> > >in PA, can't remember the name. They sounded really great afterwards.
> > > Anyway, they sound pretty bad now - sort of mushy and fuzzy.. Can't
> > >make out the lyrics easily to well produced songs. The foam around the
> > >woofers still looks perfect. I have Audio-technica headphones and the
> > >receiver is very clear through them. I played some music through the
> > >Advents at volume and headphones at the same time to see if the clarity
> > >was breaking down with a load larger than the headphones, and the
> > >Advents sounded fuzzy and the A-T's sounded clear. Any ideas regarding
> > >cleaning the sound of these babies up? Gotten attached to them over the
> > >last 35 years:-)
> >
> > First thing I'd check, is to see if they still sound bad when played
> > on another receiver... they probably will but it's good "due
> > diligence" to make sure that the problem is entirely isolated to the
> > speakers.
> >
> > "Mushy and fuzzy" isn't a terribly precise definition of the problem,
> > so I'll just suggest a number of things which *might* go wrong with
> > the speakers which *might* account for this description.
> >
> > - Another failure of the foam surround. If the foam disintegrates,
> > or the glue junction between the foam and diaphragm (or foam and
> > frame) breaks, air will leak out as the driver moves back and
> > forth. This will wreck the "acoustic suspension" spring action of
> > the air inside the enclosure, and may also make chuffing or
> > whoofing sounds. If "mushy and fuzzy" includes "sounds as if the
> > speakers are farting when the bassist hits a low note" this is
> > something to check :-)
> >
> > 15 years isn't a bad lifetime for foam surrounds, alas... it's
> > possible that the replacements are failing again.
> >
> > - Air leak elsewhere in the cabinet (again, this wrecks the acoustic
> > suspension system).
> >
> > - The woofer voice-coil suspensions may have sagged with age,
> > allowing the voice coil to rub against the magnet assembly or
> > frame. This results in nasty-sounding distortion.
> >
> > You can sometimes detect this by *gently* pressing in on the woofer
> > diaphragm, right around the dust cap in the center, with the
> > receiver turned off. Press straight in and release, slowly, and
> > don't overdoit. If you sense a gritty-feeling "something is
> > rubbing" sensation, or hear a scraping, then this is your problem.
> >
> > It's sometimes possible to have such drivers repaired (similar to a
> > re-coning but it may require replacing the "spider" as well).
> >
> > - The tweeters may not be working right. If the speaker system was
> > overdriven to excessively high volumes, the tweeter voice coils
> > might have overheated and burned (leading to warping and rubbing)
> > or actually burned out.
> >
> > Some tweeters can have their voice coils replaced; in other cases
> > it's necessary to replace the tweeter with a compatible one (if you
> > can find one - crossover changes may be required).
> >
> > - Component failure in the crossover(s) - a dried-out electrolytic
> > capacitor would be the likeliest, I think.
> >
> > - Blown fuse in the crossover (if the speaker has 'em for
> > protection), shutting down the tweeter. Fuses do wear out with age
> > and need to be replaced.
> >
> > - Advents, being classic rock-era speakers, may not like modern music
> > and might be refusing to play it out of distaste :-)
>
> Thanks for the time and effort you put into your answer. Greatly
> appreciated.