Re: How-one-generation-was-able-to-kill-the-music-industry

[Luxey]

BTW, I really think damage from piracy is exaggeraated by several orders of magnitude. 99.9999% of pirate downloaded music and crap nobody would buy anyway. It's more of a benefit to those artists and their publishers, serving as (free) advertizing.

Oh, yes, one more thing, that would be the following two:

1. **** the industry!
2. Support unsigned independent artists!
3. Stay free!

[Scott Dorsey]

Luxey > wrote:
>BTW, I really think damage from piracy is exaggeraated by several orders of magnitude. 99.9999% of pirate downloaded music and crap nobody would buy anyway. It's more of a benefit to those artists and their publishers, serving as (free) advertizing.

It's possible.

But... not all that long ago there were record companies selling records,
and they were funding high end studios and paying musicians. And now this
thing is not happening.

I'm not saying that piracy is the only reason this has taken place, but the
difference in the industry has been absolutely staggering.

I think the Record Plant auction was the first time I realized something was
going wrong.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey > wrote:

> Luxey > wrote:
> >BTW, I really think damage from piracy is exaggeraated by several orders
> >of magnitude. 99.9999% of pirate downloaded music and crap nobody would
> >buy anyway. It's more of a benefit to those artists and their publishers,
> >serving as (free) advertizing.
> >
>
> It's possible.
>
> But... not all that long ago there were record companies selling records,
> and they were funding high end studios and paying musicians. And now this
> thing is not happening.
>
> I'm not saying that piracy is the only reason this has taken place, but the
> difference in the industry has been absolutely staggering.
>
> I think the Record Plant auction was the first time I realized something was
> going wrong.
> --scott

The industry's failure to recognize the implications of technological
progress led to major bullet wounds in both feet, thinking that legal
bullying would do anything to affect the way the Internet works.

When Napster filled that access vacuum the game was over on many levels.
Now instead of spending a considerable sum on several different artists
from several different genres, and working to develop an artist's career
and recording stature, the remaining corporate megafaunae spend an
outright fortune, in the millions of dollars, to break a single artist
presenting something called "pop" music.

This "music should be free" idea, however, is nothing new. Who remembers
that part in the film Festival Express where a bunch of white
middleclass college students think admission to the festival should be
free, and the mayor of their intellectually impoverished town agrees?
That goes back to people my own advanced age, and how they did or did
not raise their kids.

Blaming the current generation, or any single generation, for the demise
of the music business as it once existed is evidence of not having paid
attention along the way.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Luxey]

уторак, 20. јануар 2015. 21.43.06 UTC+1, hank alrich је написао/ла:
> This "music should be free" idea, however, is nothing new. Who remembers
> that part in the film Festival Express where a bunch of white
> middleclass college students think admission to the festival should be
> free, and the mayor of their intellectually impoverished town agrees?
> That goes back to people my own advanced age, and how they did or did
> not raise their kids.


Recently I had an argument over copyright and intelectal property, applied
to royalties and authors' loss due piracy. As a final word, my oponent,
technical college student in his mid to late 20s, advocating "music for free"
said:

"You do not buy a fork each time you're to eat a steak."

Go figure.

(His idea was that author would sell piece of music once, for fixed
price, fairly high, and be done with it.)

[hank alrich]

Luxey > wrote:

> ??????, 20. ?????? 2015. 21.43.06 UTC+1, hank alrich ?? ???????/??:
> > This "music should be free" idea, however, is nothing new. Who remembers
> > that part in the film Festival Express where a bunch of white
> > middleclass college students think admission to the festival should be
> > free, and the mayor of their intellectually impoverished town agrees?
> > That goes back to people my own advanced age, and how they did or did
> > not raise their kids.
>
>
> Recently I had an argument over copyright and intelectal property, applied
> to royalties and authors' loss due piracy. As a final word, my oponent,
> technical college student in his mid to late 20s, advocating "music for free"
> said:
>
> "You do not buy a fork each time you're to eat a steak."
>
> Go figure.
>
> (His idea was that author would sell piece of music once, for fixed
> price, fairly high, and be done with it.)

I will make a CD for him for $25,000.00. One copy only. Have him get in
touch.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Luxey > wrote:
>> BTW, I really think damage from piracy is exaggeraated by several orders of magnitude. 99.9999% of pirate downloaded music and crap nobody would buy anyway. It's more of a benefit to those artists and their publishers, serving as (free) advertizing.
>
> It's possible.
>
> But... not all that long ago there were record companies selling records,
> and they were funding high end studios and paying musicians. And now this
> thing is not happening.
>
> I'm not saying that piracy is the only reason this has taken place, but the
> difference in the industry has been absolutely staggering.
>


So ClearChannel ate radio and loaded it up with debt, and now it
doesn't work any more. Plus we all got older.

I dunno what kids do. I'm reasonably certain they pirate *movies*, but
I'm less sure about music.

> I think the Record Plant auction was the first time I realized something was
> going wrong.
> --scott
>

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

(hank alrich) wrote:
> Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>
>> Luxey > wrote:
>>> BTW, I really think damage from piracy is exaggeraated by several orders
>>> of magnitude. 99.9999% of pirate downloaded music and crap nobody would
>>> buy anyway. It's more of a benefit to those artists and their publishers,
>>> serving as (free) advertizing.
>>>
>>
>> It's possible.
>>
>> But... not all that long ago there were record companies selling records,
>> and they were funding high end studios and paying musicians. And now this
>> thing is not happening.
>>
>> I'm not saying that piracy is the only reason this has taken place, but the
>> difference in the industry has been absolutely staggering.
>>
>> I think the Record Plant auction was the first time I realized something was
>> going wrong.
>> --scott
>
> The industry's failure to recognize the implications of technological
> progress led to major bullet wounds in both feet, thinking that legal
> bullying would do anything to affect the way the Internet works.
>
> When Napster filled that access vacuum the game was over on many levels.
> Now instead of spending a considerable sum on several different artists
> from several different genres, and working to develop an artist's career
> and recording stature, the remaining corporate megafaunae spend an
> outright fortune, in the millions of dollars, to break a single artist
> presenting something called "pop" music.
>

But there's nothing new there. Funny how the suits* end up controlling
the budget. And that budget doesn't go to those smelly people
who make the stuff; it goes to other suits because that fits
the norms better.

*not picking teh suits; it's just a nice punchy word.

This is literally true everywhere. It's not limited to music. There
were cases at a former employer where just contract process navigation
cost more than the contract.

I see links from you about the Spotify story. That makes rainbows
and unicorn farts look like physics.

> This "music should be free" idea, however, is nothing new. Who remembers
> that part in the film Festival Express where a bunch of white
> middleclass college students think admission to the festival should be
> free, and the mayor of their intellectually impoverished town agrees?

I remember the film "Woodstock". "This is now a free concert..."

> That goes back to people my own advanced age, and how they did or did
> not raise their kids.
>

People don't actually know what anything is worth. It just doesn't
factor into decisions at all.

> Blaming the current generation, or any single generation, for the demise
> of the music business as it once existed is evidence of not having paid
> attention along the way.
>

--
Les Cargill

[geoff]

On 21/01/2015 9:43 a.m., hank alrich wrote:

>
> This "music should be free" idea, however, is nothing new.


But increasingly as it is obtained for free, it equally is regarded as
having no real value. Which seems to become a self-fulfilling prophecy -
for those generations at least.

Which is very sad for the future of music.....

geoff

[Trevor]

On 21/01/2015 5:03 PM, geoff wrote:
> On 21/01/2015 9:43 a.m., hank alrich wrote:
>
>> This "music should be free" idea, however, is nothing new.
>
> But increasingly as it is obtained for free, it equally is regarded as
> having no real value. Which seems to become a self-fulfilling prophecy -
> for those generations at least.

While I might personally think that hip hop and gangsta rap has no value
whatsoever, many of the artists seem to be doing VERY well indeed with
multi-million dollar mansions and garages full of luxury cars. Frankly I
don't see any change at all over the years, with a few artists making a
fortune, and the majority of artists scratching to get by, just as it
has been for centuries. And the amounts paid to artists for concerts
(and the tickets themselves) have exceeded the inflation rate for
decades. So when Celine Dion or Brittney Spears can make far more per
concert (in real terms) at Las Vegas than Elvis Presley ever did, maybe
there isn't too much to whinge about for some at least.
And even bands like the Rolling Stones are making far more now per
concert than they ever did in their heyday, and many of their concert
goers wouldn't even bother to download their latest CD's for free :-)

Trevor.

[[email protected]]

Trevor wrote: "While I might personally think that hip hop and gangsta rap has no value whatsoever"


I TRIPLE-dare you to make that statement on a street corner in Harlem or Bronx and see what happens. Who the F__ are you to decide what genres have "no value whatsoever" - Pastey?!

[John Williamson]

On 21/01/2015 12:20, wrote:
> Trevor wrote: "While I might personally think that hip hop and gangsta rap has no value whatsoever"
>
>
> I TRIPLE-dare you to make that statement on a street corner in Harlem or Bronx and see what happens. Who the F__ are you to decide what genres have "no value whatsoever" - Pastey?!
>
Listen to the lyrics of a few tracks and then try and claim that they
are great or even good music or poetry, or that they would be good
advice for living your life. :-)

Trevor also said he "might personally think that", not that it is
unconditionally true. The fact that some people would commit violence if
he were to express his opinion in their hearing need not alter his
honestly held opinion, as violence tends only to prove the lack of
reasoning behind the attitude of the person committing the violence.

Some people don't see any value in Mozart or Beethoven's work. And as
for Strauss, that's just auditory popcorn in some peoples' view.

Is English your first language, by the way? Your lack of comprehension
and quality of arguments in this group suggests that you are either
lacking comprehension and composition skills or are struggling with a
second language.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[[email protected]]

John Williamson:

Yeah yeah blah blah, one cracker
trying to sugar-coat and defend
another's racist comment. Even
if it is "just their personal" opinion.

For every one critique of classical
or country as 'meaningless' there are
at least 100 such comments about rap.

Rap, and country, and jazz, pop, metal,
or whatever genres have value or
meaning to SOMEONE, or else they
wouldn't exist.

[John Williamson]

On 21/01/2015 12:51, wrote:
> John Williamson:
>
> Yeah yeah blah blah, one cracker
> trying to sugar-coat and defend
> another's racist comment. Even
> if it is "just their personal" opinion.
>
So, in your opinion, anyone who doesn't like the music made by a person
of a different race is "racist", even if it's the music they dislike,
not the performer? Okay. In that case, I have met a *lot* of West Indian
racists over the years. You would call them Afro Caribbeans, if you
weren't being too politically correct. They loved all forms of Reggae,
but hated everything else, especially any music performed by white guys.
They weren't all that keen on white guys performing Reggae, either.

> For every one critique of classical
> or country as 'meaningless' there are
> at least 100 such comments about rap.
>
Which may tell you something about the perceived value of each type of
music by the majority of listeners, and the literacy of the respective
listeners.

> Rap, and country, and jazz, pop, metal,
> or whatever genres have value or
> meaning to SOMEONE, or else they
> wouldn't exist.
>
He didn't and nor do I deny that. I don't like Gangsta Rap, or indeed
any kind of Rap or hip hop. I also don't voluntarily listen to music
where the lyrics are mostly swearing. Some people do. I'd be surprised
if anyone who did likes Rap likes the kind of music I listen to from choice.

That's not racist, that's just the way we grew up and what we were
exposed to in the process. What *is* racist is saying that anyone that
doesn't see the value in your preferred form of music is a racist just
because their name doesn't conform to the sort of name you'd prefer tp
see them use. If Trevor had used the alias Bronxman, you'd have said
nothing, I'll bet.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 1/21/2015 1:56 AM, Trevor wrote:
> While I might personally think that hip hop and gangsta rap has no value
> whatsoever, many of the artists seem to be doing VERY well indeed with
> multi-million dollar mansions and garages full of luxury cars. Frankly I
> don't see any change at all over the years, with a few artists making a
> fortune, and the majority of artists scratching to get by

Right. The availability of music recording and distribution at low cost
isn't making any more artists wealthy. However, the pool is both much
bigger and more crowded because of the lower price of admission. The
likelihood that a modestly talented artist will find a way to great
wealth is much less than it ever was. And if they do have a hit, they
don't usually have many more.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[hank alrich]

John Williamson > wrote:

> On 21/01/2015 12:20, wrote:
> > Trevor wrote: "While I might personally think that hip hop and gangsta
> >rap has no value whatsoever"
> >
> >
> > I TRIPLE-dare you to make that statement on a street corner in Harlem or
> >Bronx and see what happens. Who the F__ are you to decide what genres
> >have "no value whatsoever" - Pastey?!
> >
> Listen to the lyrics of a few tracks and then try and claim that they
> are great or even good music or poetry, or that they would be good
> advice for living your life. :-)
>
> Trevor also said he "might personally think that", not that it is
> unconditionally true. The fact that some people would commit violence if
> he were to express his opinion in their hearing need not alter his
> honestly held opinion, as violence tends only to prove the lack of
> reasoning behind the attitude of the person committing the violence.
>
> Some people don't see any value in Mozart or Beethoven's work. And as
> for Strauss, that's just auditory popcorn in some peoples' view.
>
> Is English your first language, by the way? Your lack of comprehension
> and quality of arguments in this group suggests that you are either
> lacking comprehension and composition skills or are struggling with a
> second language.

Hear, hear!

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[hank alrich]

John Williamson > wrote:

> On 21/01/2015 12:51, wrote:
> > John Williamson:
> >
> > Yeah yeah blah blah, one cracker
> > trying to sugar-coat and defend
> > another's racist comment. Even
> > if it is "just their personal" opinion.
> >
> So, in your opinion, anyone who doesn't like the music made by a person
> of a different race is "racist", even if it's the music they dislike,
> not the performer? Okay. In that case, I have met a *lot* of West Indian
> racists over the years. You would call them Afro Caribbeans, if you
> weren't being too politically correct. They loved all forms of Reggae,
> but hated everything else, especially any music performed by white guys.
> They weren't all that keen on white guys performing Reggae, either.
>
> > For every one critique of classical
> > or country as 'meaningless' there are
> > at least 100 such comments about rap.
> >
> Which may tell you something about the perceived value of each type of
> music by the majority of listeners, and the literacy of the respective
> listeners.
>
> > Rap, and country, and jazz, pop, metal,
> > or whatever genres have value or
> > meaning to SOMEONE, or else they
> > wouldn't exist.
> >
> He didn't and nor do I deny that. I don't like Gangsta Rap, or indeed
> any kind of Rap or hip hop. I also don't voluntarily listen to music
> where the lyrics are mostly swearing. Some people do. I'd be surprised
> if anyone who did likes Rap likes the kind of music I listen to from choice.
>
> That's not racist, that's just the way we grew up and what we were
> exposed to in the process. What *is* racist is saying that anyone that
> doesn't see the value in your preferred form of music is a racist just
> because their name doesn't conform to the sort of name you'd prefer tp
> see them use. If Trevor had used the alias Bronxman, you'd have said
> nothing, I'll bet.

Strawman mounts a red herring saddle atop a dead horse.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[[email protected]]

hank alrich wrote: "- show quoted text -
Strawman mounts a red herring saddle atop a dead
horse.
- show quoted text -


Another denialist statement. Anyone knows that
processing decisions made in post are far more
audible than the differences between digital formats.

That's where the real loss of fidelity lies.

[Frank Stearns]

(hank alrich) writes:

>John Williamson > wrote:

snips

>> > Rap, and country, and jazz, pop, metal,
>> > or whatever genres have value or
>> > meaning to SOMEONE, or else they
>> > wouldn't exist.
>> >
>> He didn't and nor do I deny that. I don't like Gangsta Rap, or indeed
>> any kind of Rap or hip hop. I also don't voluntarily listen to music
>> where the lyrics are mostly swearing. Some people do. I'd be surprised
>> if anyone who did likes Rap likes the kind of music I listen to from choice.
>>
>> That's not racist, that's just the way we grew up and what we were
>> exposed to in the process. What *is* racist is saying that anyone that
>> doesn't see the value in your preferred form of music is a racist just
>> because their name doesn't conform to the sort of name you'd prefer tp
>> see them use. If Trevor had used the alias Bronxman, you'd have said
>> nothing, I'll bet.

>Strawman mounts a red herring saddle atop a dead horse.

Guffaw. Good one, Hank.

As far as the thread, it indeed should not be racist to call **** "****" -- no
matter who does it or how much money it made, at that moment.

The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
Most likely not.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[[email protected]]

Frank Stearns:

"****" is all a point of view. And from mine, it's brown,
stinks, and is often found in the bottom of a toilet bowl.

[Scott Dorsey]

Frank Stearns > wrote:
>
>The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
>now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
>Most likely not.

I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of time,
but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
happened to the pop music of the sixties and to most Baroque music.

I'm not willing to predict what rap songs will last, but I bet a few do.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Paul[_13_]]

On 1/20/2015 6:30 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

>
> I dunno what kids do. I'm reasonably certain they pirate *movies*, but
> I'm less sure about music.
>

They don't need to pirate or download anything these days.

Anyone with an internet connection can Youtube, Spotify, Bandcamp,
or Reverbnation practically anything.

Astounding, really.....

[Nil[_2_]]

On 21 Jan 2015, Frank Stearns >
wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff
> 20 years from now?

Well, yes, they will. Rap and Hip Hop has been around since the '70s
and Gangsta Rap since the '80s, and some of that stuff is still
"remembered" today.

> Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of
> their way to perform it again? Most likely not.

[Frank Stearns]

writes:

>Frank Stearns:

>"****" is all a point of view. And from mine, it's brown,
>stinks, and is often found in the bottom of a toilet bowl.

An apt description of some so-called art, regardless of the medium.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 1/21/2015 2:05 PM, Nil wrote:
> Well, yes, they will. Rap and Hip Hop has been around since the '70s
> and Gangsta Rap since the '80s, and some of that stuff is still
> "remembered" today.

The genre, yes, but are the words remembered? Surely not 100% have been
lost, but so much rap is about current events that don't seem to find a
place in history. And hip hop is just rhythm. You have to really care
about it to know one tune from another.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >, Mike Rivers > wrote:
>On 1/21/2015 2:05 PM, Nil wrote:
>> Well, yes, they will. Rap and Hip Hop has been around since the '70s
>> and Gangsta Rap since the '80s, and some of that stuff is still
>> "remembered" today.
>
>The genre, yes, but are the words remembered? Surely not 100% have been
>lost, but so much rap is about current events that don't seem to find a
>place in history. And hip hop is just rhythm. You have to really care
>about it to know one tune from another.

That's the case with all popular music, and for the most part it means
that music passes away very quickly.

On the other hand, "Charlie on the MTA" and CSNY's "Ohio" live on, years
after most have forgotten the events they commemorated. Go figure.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Nil[_2_]]

On 21 Jan 2015, Mike Rivers > wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> On 1/21/2015 2:05 PM, Nil wrote:
>> Well, yes, they will. Rap and Hip Hop has been around since the
>> '70s and Gangsta Rap since the '80s, and some of that stuff is
>> still "remembered" today.
>
> The genre, yes, but are the words remembered? Surely not 100% have
> been lost, but so much rap is about current events that don't seem
> to find a place in history. And hip hop is just rhythm. You have
> to really care about it to know one tune from another.

I'm not the right one to ask, but even I can recite a few lines from
Sugar Hill Gang's "Rapper's Delight", and that's from more than 35
years ago. I don't doubt at all that words from other rap and hip hop
songs are remembered by those who are into the style.

[Ralph Barone[_2_]]

> wrote:
> Trevor wrote: "While I might personally think that hip hop and gangsta
> rap has no value whatsoever"
>
>
> I TRIPLE-dare you to make that statement on a street corner in Harlem or
> Bronx and see what happens. Who the F__ are you to decide what genres
> have "no value whatsoever" - Pastey?!

So are you saying that people aren't allowed to express their personal
opinions in a public space? I take it that you are not Charlie.

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Paul wrote:
> On 1/20/2015 6:30 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
>
>>
>> I dunno what kids do. I'm reasonably certain they pirate *movies*, but
>> I'm less sure about music.
>>
>
> They don't need to pirate or download anything these days.
>
> Anyone with an internet connection can Youtube, Spotify, Bandcamp,
> or Reverbnation practically anything.
>
> Astounding, really.....
>

Pretty much.

--
Les Cargill

[None]

<krissie dumb****i @ gurglemoron-dot-com> wrote in message
...
> hank alrich wrote: "- show quoted text -
> Strawman mounts a red herring saddle atop a dead
> horse.
> - show quoted text -
>
>
> Another denialist statement.

Yet again, you prove that you have no comprehension of the loudness
wars; the technical points, the business implications, the sound, the
history, and the facts that have been spoon-fed to you here, often
with patience and politeness that you don't deserve because of the
contemptuous ignorance of your responses. Calling you a dumb**** is
not "denialist", and the fact that you could make such a moronic claim
further proves that you are a clueless moron.

A dumb****.

[None]

> wrote in message
...
> Frank Stearns:
>
> "****" is all a point of view. And from mine, it's brown,
> stinks, and is often found in the bottom of a toilet bowl.

It's what you find filling your skull. No wonder you recognize it,
it's what you have for brains! If I ever said that you don't know
****, I recant. But you're still a short-bus dumb**** who has no
intention of learning anything. All you want to do is wallow in the
stink of your dead hobbyhorse.

[None]

"John Williamson" > wrote in message
...
> Is English your first language, by the way? Your lack of
> comprehension and quality of arguments in this group suggests that
> you are either lacking comprehension and composition skills or are
> struggling with a second language.

Broken English is Krissie's first language. Yes, he has an utter lack
of reading comprehension and composition skills. He's a dumb ****.

[[email protected]]

Nil wrote: "
I'm not the right one to ask, but even I can recite a few lines from
Sugar Hill Gang's "Rapper's Delight", and that's from more than 35
years ago. I don't doubt at all that words from other rap and hip hop
songs are remembered by those who are into the style. "

'Friends, how many of us have them?
Friends, ones we can depend on.
Friends, how many of us have them? Friends,
Before we go any further, let's be

Friends - A word we use every day,
But some of us use it in the wrong way,
Now you could look the word up, again and again
But the dictionary doesn't know the meaning of friends!

And if you ask me you know I couldn't be much help
Because a friend is someone you judge for yourself....'

"Friends" - Whodini 1984


For all the negating mouth-breathers looking for
womanizing gang-banging gold chains and pants
around your ankles lyrics - SORRY -

Not in this song!

[Scott Dorsey]

Les Cargill > wrote:
>But there's nothing new there. Funny how the suits* end up controlling
>the budget. And that budget doesn't go to those smelly people
>who make the stuff; it goes to other suits because that fits
>the norms better.
>
>*not picking teh suits; it's just a nice punchy word.
>
>This is literally true everywhere. It's not limited to music. There
>were cases at a former employer where just contract process navigation
>cost more than the contract.

This is not new and it's not a bad thing either. The problem is when the
suits who are making those decisions have no vision beyond the next week,
and I think that is comparatively new.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Paul[_13_]]

On 1/21/2015 9:47 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

>>
>> They don't need to pirate or download anything these days.
>>
>> Anyone with an internet connection can Youtube, Spotify, Bandcamp,
>> or Reverbnation practically anything.
>>
>> Astounding, really.....
>>
>
> Pretty much.
>

And now that most people have internet on their phones, you can
access even the most obscure bootleg music from practically anywhere.
No need to save it on the phone, it's all in the "cloud"!

The only place I still play CDs on occasion, is in my car, but
since CD players are being replaced with USB connections, this will soon
be an ancient practice.

Another nail on the coffin, will be when Bluetooth connectivity
is standard on all car stereos and smart phones, as some people already
have:


http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-play-music-from-an-iPhone-through-a-cars-speaker-system-using-Bluetooth-without-connecting-an-audio-cord

Technology moves so quick, our heads are spinnin'!

:O

[[email protected]]

Paul: play CDs in the car and at home.
No substitute for good sound!

[John Williamson]

On 22/01/2015 16:00, wrote:
> Paul: play CDs in the car and at home.
> No substitute for good sound!
>
In the car is about the only place it's not worth playing CDs for better
sound quality due to the background noise and poor acoustics. What's
wanted in a car is lots of compression and bass. ;-)

Even back in the days of cassette players in cars, I used to EQ the
tracks to try and beat the LF noise.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey > wrote:

> Les Cargill > wrote:
> >But there's nothing new there. Funny how the suits* end up controlling
> >the budget. And that budget doesn't go to those smelly people
> >who make the stuff; it goes to other suits because that fits
> >the norms better.
> >
> >*not picking teh suits; it's just a nice punchy word.
> >
> >This is literally true everywhere. It's not limited to music. There
> >were cases at a former employer where just contract process navigation
> >cost more than the contract.
>
> This is not new and it's not a bad thing either. The problem is when the
> suits who are making those decisions have no vision beyond the next week,
> and I think that is comparatively new.
> --scott

The suits entered when the founders retired and the labels were taken
over by Wall Street. I'm thinking that began in earnest in the 1980's.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[[email protected]]

John Williamson wrote: "wanted in a car
is lots of compression and bass. ;-)"

Good, there's a bass control in the
car stereo, and we can add a comp to
that too. Just keep that sh- out of the
recording!

[[email protected]]

> >But there's nothing new there. Funny how the suits* end up controlling
> >the budget. And that budget doesn't go to those smelly people
> >who make the stuff; it goes to other suits because that fits
> >the norms better.
> >
> >*not picking teh suits; it's just a nice punchy word.
> >
> >This is literally true everywhere. It's not limited to music. There
> >were cases at a former employer where just contract process navigation
> >cost more than the contract.
>
> This is not new and it's not a bad thing either. The problem is when the
> suits who are making those decisions have no vision beyond the next week,
> and I think that is comparatively new.
> --scott
>
>

no it is not limitd to any one industry
no it is not new.

but I think it IS a bad thing when the "smelly people" have most of the knowledge and do most of the work while the "suits" enjoy most of the rewards.

Mark

[david gourley[_2_]]

Jeff Henig > said...news:124747281443591551.986948yomama-
:

> > wrote:
>> John Williamson:
>>
>> Yeah yeah blah blah, one cracker
>> trying to sugar-coat and defend
>> another's racist comment. Even
>> if it is "just their personal" opinion.
>>
>> For every one critique of classical
>> or country as 'meaningless' there are
>> at least 100 such comments about rap.
>>
>> Rap, and country, and jazz, pop, metal,
>> or whatever genres have value or
>> meaning to SOMEONE, or else they
>> wouldn't exist.
>
> "Cracker"?
>
> Who is the racist, here?
>
> Lemme ask you this: if I dislike Native American tribal music, does that
> make me a racist? What if I dislike musicals by Rogers and Hammerstein?
> What if I dislike elevator music?
>
> You keep using that word, and I'm pretty sure you've no freaking clue
what
> it means.
>

It sure wouldn't be the first time !
david

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

(hank alrich) wrote:
> Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>
>> Les Cargill > wrote:
>>> But there's nothing new there. Funny how the suits* end up controlling
>>> the budget. And that budget doesn't go to those smelly people
>>> who make the stuff; it goes to other suits because that fits
>>> the norms better.
>>>
>>> *not picking teh suits; it's just a nice punchy word.
>>>
>>> This is literally true everywhere. It's not limited to music. There
>>> were cases at a former employer where just contract process navigation
>>> cost more than the contract.
>>
>> This is not new and it's not a bad thing either. The problem is when the
>> suits who are making those decisions have no vision beyond the next week,
>> and I think that is comparatively new.
>> --scott
>
> The suits entered when the founders retired and the labels were taken
> over by Wall Street. I'm thinking that began in earnest in the 1980's.
>

The money started getting bigger in the 1980s. Remember Geffen Records?
Too much money makes you lose focus. Plus reselling all that back
catalog was so profitable...

<http://thinkjarcollective.com/articles/frank-zappa-on-the-value-
of-cigar-chomping-old-guys/>

The "cigar chomping old guys" were actual entrepreneurs. "Too much
money" is generally a huge problem if you care about what you do.
It attracts the wrong element, pumps your ego the wrong way.

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

wrote:
>
>>> But there's nothing new there. Funny how the suits* end up
>>> controlling the budget. And that budget doesn't go to those
>>> smelly people who make the stuff; it goes to other suits because
>>> that fits the norms better.
>>>
>>> *not picking teh suits; it's just a nice punchy word.
>>>
>>> This is literally true everywhere. It's not limited to music.
>>> There were cases at a former employer where just contract process
>>> navigation cost more than the contract.
>>
>> This is not new and it's not a bad thing either. The problem is
>> when the suits who are making those decisions have no vision beyond
>> the next week, and I think that is comparatively new. --scott
>>
>>
>
> no it is not limitd to any one industry no it is not new.
>
> but I think it IS a bad thing when the "smelly people" have most of
> the knowledge and do most of the work while the "suits" enjoy most
> of the rewards.
>
> Mark
>
>

I'f the smelly people get too much money and turn into suits,
there are no more smelly people. See also SiVa.

--
Les Cargill

[geoff]

On 23/01/2015 5:00 a.m., wrote:
> Paul: play CDs in the car and at home.
> No substitute for good sound!
>


I graduated to ipdo (ALAC) in car. CDs (and SACDs) at home though.

geoff

[Luxey]

среда, 21. јануар 2015. 02.28.29 UTC+1, hank alrich је написао/ла:
> Luxey > wrote:

> > ...advocating "music for free" said: "You do not buy a fork each time
> > you're to eat a steak."
> >
> > Go figure.
> >
> > (His idea was that author would sell piece of music once, for fixed
> > price, fairly high, and be done with it.)
>
> I will make a CD for him for $25,000.00. One copy only. Have him get in
> touch.
>
> --
> shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
> HankandShaidriMusic.Com
> YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

Well, Hank, if I thought there was a speck of chance to sell anything to this
youngster, except, maybe, but doubtfully, some retro Ford car cosmetic
upgrades, at flea market rates, I'd surelly give you that contact and would not
even charge.

For the serious talk,
a. your kind, or mine, we were not in that conversation.
People making own music, in the eyes of these young intellectuals, are having
it for free (since they did not buy it from someone else) so, by default, they
should give it for free, while recouping all the costs and possibly earning
something exclusively by playing gigs.


b. Mentioned authors, selling pieces of music, were understood to be professional music writers, hit makers, ... and the buing party was understood
to be advancing, or established performing artist. After selling, author should
not expect any royalties, and artist should proceede as explained in a. above.

That is their reasoning.

[geoff]

On 22/01/2015 1:20 a.m., wrote:
> Trevor wrote: "While I might personally think that hip hop and gangsta rap has no value whatsoever"
>
>
> I TRIPLE-dare you to make that statement on a street corner in Harlem or Bronx and see what happens. Who the F__ are you to decide what genres have "no value whatsoever" - Pastey?!
>


Thus proving his point.

geoff

[geoff]

On 22/01/2015 1:51 a.m., wrote:
> John Williamson:
>
> Yeah yeah blah blah, one cracker
> trying to sugar-coat and defend
> another's racist comment. Even
> if it is "just their personal" opinion.


I think YOU are the racist here. Nobody else is equating crime,
violence, dishonesty, rape, etc, with any particular racial group.


geoff

[[email protected]]

geoff wrote: "I think YOU are the racist here. "

Well maybe I am! Or, maybe I just feel
ashamed to be a member of the most racist
ethnic group of human beings to walk this
planet.

[hank alrich]

Les Cargill > wrote:

> (hank alrich) wrote:

> > The suits entered when the founders retired and the labels were taken
> > over by Wall Street. I'm thinking that began in earnest in the 1980's.
> >
>
> The money started getting bigger in the 1980s. Remember Geffen Records?

Yep. So much power, the ability to shatter dreams as easily as enable
them. See The Sims Foundation, following the suicide of Sims Ellison.

> Too much money makes you lose focus. Plus reselling all that back
> catalog was so profitable...

An extractive resource industry, rather that a creative one.

> <http://thinkjarcollective.com/articles/frank-zappa-on-the-value-
> of-cigar-chomping-old-guys/>

I dig that video. Frank is always insightful. He left us just as he was
thinking about running for POTUS.

> The "cigar chomping old guys" were actual entrepreneurs. "Too much
> money" is generally a huge problem if you care about what you do.
> It attracts the wrong element, pumps your ego the wrong way.

Billionaires have millionaires for groupies. This is one big butt
sniffering fest. Perspective fades.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

(hank alrich) wrote:
> Les Cargill > wrote:
>
>> (hank alrich) wrote:
>
>>> The suits entered when the founders retired and the labels were taken
>>> over by Wall Street. I'm thinking that began in earnest in the 1980's.
>>>
>>
>> The money started getting bigger in the 1980s. Remember Geffen Records?
>
> Yep. So much power, the ability to shatter dreams as easily as enable
> them. See The Sims Foundation, following the suicide of Sims Ellison.
>

Whew.

>> Too much money makes you lose focus. Plus reselling all that back
>> catalog was so profitable...
>
> An extractive resource industry, rather that a creative one.
>

To an extent, but even extractive industries practice some
measure of husbandry. Where they go bad is when the money leaves
and they don't have the resources to follow up like they should.

>> <http://thinkjarcollective.com/articles/frank-zappa-on-the-value-
>> of-cigar-chomping-old-guys/>
>
> I dig that video. Frank is always insightful. He left us just as he was
> thinking about running for POTUS.
>

Yep. SFAIK, the point is original with him.

>> The "cigar chomping old guys" were actual entrepreneurs. "Too much
>> money" is generally a huge problem if you care about what you do.
>> It attracts the wrong element, pumps your ego the wrong way.
>
> Billionaires have millionaires for groupies. This is one big butt
> sniffering fest. Perspective fades.
>

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Paul wrote:
> On 1/21/2015 9:47 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
>
>>>
>>> They don't need to pirate or download anything these days.
>>>
>>> Anyone with an internet connection can Youtube, Spotify, Bandcamp,
>>> or Reverbnation practically anything.
>>>
>>> Astounding, really.....
>>>
>>
>> Pretty much.
>>
>
> And now that most people have internet on their phones, you can
> access even the most obscure bootleg music from practically anywhere. No
> need to save it on the phone, it's all in the "cloud"!
>

Yep.

> The only place I still play CDs on occasion, is in my car, but
> since CD players are being replaced with USB connections, this will soon
> be an ancient practice.
>
> Another nail on the coffin, will be when Bluetooth connectivity
> is standard on all car stereos and smart phones, as some people already
> have:
>
>
> http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-play-music-from-an-iPhone-through-a-cars-speaker-system-using-Bluetooth-without-connecting-an-audio-cord
>

Most newer cars have a 1/8" AUX input already.

>
> Technology moves so quick, our heads are spinnin'!
>
> :O
>
>
>

--
Les Cargill

[[email protected]]

Les Cargill wrote: "Most newer cars have a 1/8" AUX input already."

+1!
I'll trust my aux jack any day over any wireless format.

[John Williamson]

On 22/01/2015 22:55, wrote:
> geoff wrote: "I think YOU are the racist here. "
>
> Well maybe I am! Or, maybe I just feel
> ashamed to be a member of the most racist
> ethnic group of human beings to walk this
> planet.
>
You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[[email protected]]

John Williamson wrote: "- show quoted text -
You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?
- show quoted text -"


NO. But I am caucasian - and ashamed to
admit it.

[John Williamson]

On 23/01/2015 12:33, wrote:
> John Williamson wrote: "- show quoted text -
> You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?
> - show quoted text -"
>
>
> NO. But I am caucasian - and ashamed to
> admit it.
>
In that case. I'd guess you've not known or worked with many people of
other races. The percentage of racists in all the groups I've met has
been about the same, and if you spoke the language, you'd be horrified
at what us foreigners get called when people think we can't understand.

For instance, the Japanese think that all Europeans stink and look the
same... (They're right, too, if we eat dairy products. They produce a
body odour which we are not aware of, but is obvious to Japanese who
don't consume dairy products.) They don't often like our music, either.
Other examples are available.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Ralph Barone[_2_]]

Jeff Henig > wrote:
> > wrote:
>> John Williamson wrote: "- show quoted text -
>> You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?
>> - show quoted text -"
>>
>>
>> NO. But I am caucasian - and ashamed to
>> admit it.
>
> <eyeroll>
>
> #AshamedCaucasianLivesMatter
>
> PLONK


Reminds me of Fingaz in Mixerman's book (trying to swerve this back on
topic here).

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Jeff Henig wrote:
> > wrote:
>> John Williamson wrote: "- show quoted text -
>> You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?
>> - show quoted text -"
>>
>>
>> NO. But I am caucasian - and ashamed to
>> admit it.
>
> <eyeroll>
>
> #AshamedCaucasianLivesMatter
>
> PLONK
>

A Caucasian, you say?

<https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_oif_zBb7yXVc6WxdquPha68wdmYPw n3ENXTlZ2PmL9MTGphDQrB_unk2-Q>

--
Les Cargill

[hank alrich]

Ralph Barone > wrote:

> Jeff Henig > wrote:
> > > wrote:
> >> John Williamson wrote: "- show quoted text -
> >> You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?
> >> - show quoted text -"
> >>
> >>
> >> NO. But I am caucasian - and ashamed to
> >> admit it.
> >
> > <eyeroll>
> >
> > #AshamedCaucasianLivesMatter
> >
> > PLONK
>
>
> Reminds me of Fingaz in Mixerman's book (trying to swerve this back on
> topic here).

Funny, Ralph! Thank you.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[hank alrich]

Les Cargill > wrote:

> Jeff Henig wrote:
> > > wrote:
> >> John Williamson wrote: "- show quoted text -
> >> You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?
> >> - show quoted text -"
> >>
> >>
> >> NO. But I am caucasian - and ashamed to
> >> admit it.
> >
> > <eyeroll>
> >
> > #AshamedCaucasianLivesMatter
> >
> > PLONK
> >
>
> A Caucasian, you say?
>
> <https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_oif_zBb7yXVc6Wxdq
> uPha68wdmYPwn3ENXTlZ2PmL9MTGphDQrB_unk2-Q>
>
> --
> Les Cargill

Ah, we're on a roll tonight!

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Trevor]

On 21/01/2015 11:20 PM, wrote:
> Trevor wrote:
>>"While I might personally think that hip hop and gangsta rap has no valuewhatsoever"
>
> I TRIPLE-dare you to make that statement on a street corner in Harlem or Bronx
> and see what happens.

;-) Fortunately I'm not insane!

> Who the F__ are you to decide what genres have "no value whatsoever"

I am the *ONLY* one who can decide what "I PERSONALLY think" thanks very
much!

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 22/01/2015 1:57 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 1/21/2015 1:56 AM, Trevor wrote:
>> While I might personally think that hip hop and gangsta rap has no value
>> whatsoever, many of the artists seem to be doing VERY well indeed with
>> multi-million dollar mansions and garages full of luxury cars. Frankly I
>> don't see any change at all over the years, with a few artists making a
>> fortune, and the majority of artists scratching to get by
>
> Right. The availability of music recording and distribution at low cost
> isn't making any more artists wealthy. However, the pool is both much
> bigger and more crowded because of the lower price of admission.

True.

> The likelihood that a modestly talented artist will find a way to great
> wealth is much less than it ever was.


I don't really agree with that. IME it's the moderately talented artists
with great marketing that are doing the best, while far more talented
artists are struggling. To be clear I am talking about actual musical
proficiency here since artistic "merit" is very much in the ear of the
beholder, and it could be argued that "talent" is fairly judged by
CD/ticket sales. I would argue the huge money made by some artists who
cannot play an instrument, and cannot sing without a "guide track",
auto-tune, and "back-up" singers doing the real lead parts, might
suggest otherwise. :-(
But perhaps it's just me who wants to see a singer actually sing rather
than dance! ;-)

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 22/01/2015 4:03 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:
> The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
> now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?

Yep, I have often said the same. Sometimes they prove me wrong, but not
as often as they would like! :-)

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Frank Stearns > wrote:
>> The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
>> now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
>> Most likely not.
>
> I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of time,
> but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
> happened to the pop music of the sixties


Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 22/01/2015 6:05 AM, Nil wrote:
> On 21 Jan 2015, Frank Stearns >
> wrote in rec.audio.pro:
>
>> The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff
>> 20 years from now?
>
> Well, yes, they will. Rap and Hip Hop has been around since the '70s
> and Gangsta Rap since the '80s, and some of that stuff is still
> "remembered" today.

As a genre yes, but hardly any of that material from the 70's and
eighties is still played or performed today. Certainly not here anyway,
not even by those who bough the CD's IME :-)
Perhaps it is somewhere? I'd bet not that widespread though.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 23/01/2015 3:46 AM, John Williamson wrote:
> On 22/01/2015 16:00, wrote:
>> Paul: play CDs in the car and at home.
>> No substitute for good sound!
>>
> In the car is about the only place it's not worth playing CDs for better
> sound quality due to the background noise and poor acoustics. What's
> wanted in a car is lots of compression and bass. ;-)

Totally agree, I even remaster some older recordings myself just for the
car. :-)

Trevor.

[John Williamson]

On 27/01/2015 07:07, Trevor wrote:
> On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> Frank Stearns > wrote:
>>> The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20
>>> years from
>>> now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform
>>> it again?
>>> Most likely not.
>>
>> I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of
>> time,
>> but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
>> happened to the pop music of the sixties
>
>
> Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
> Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
> oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)
>
Some of them are still playing and recording.

They are the musicians that are remembered. There were many hundreds of
live bands and many recorded bands from the '60s that aren't remembered
now.

Danny Williams, Frank Ifield, The Four Pennies, Jackie Trent and The
Spencer Davies Group all had number one hits in the '60s, but you very
rarely hear them played now, even on the Oldies stations.

Then, a bit later, there were bands like Bucks Fizz, who were famous
worldwide for a while because of one song that won a contest. The
members still perform individually, but their hits are only played
ironically.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Trevor]

On 27/01/2015 9:23 PM, John Williamson wrote:
> On 27/01/2015 07:07, Trevor wrote:
>> On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> Frank Stearns > wrote:
>>>> The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20
>>>> years from
>>>> now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform
>>>> it again?
>>>> Most likely not.
>>>
>>> I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of
>>> time,
>>> but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
>>> happened to the pop music of the sixties
>>
>>
>> Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
>> Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
>> oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)
>>
> Some of them are still playing and recording.
>
> They are the musicians that are remembered. There were many hundreds of
> live bands and many recorded bands from the '60s that aren't remembered
> now.
>
> Danny Williams, Frank Ifield, The Four Pennies, Jackie Trent and The
> Spencer Davies Group all had number one hits in the '60s, but you very
> rarely hear them played now, even on the Oldies stations.

And yet I'd still bet there are more acts from the sixties being played
in 20 years time than there are acts from today! There's certainly FAR
more music from the sixties and seventies still being played here than
music from the 90's and 00's. And I don't see the 10's being any
improvement myself.


> Then, a bit later, there were bands like Bucks Fizz, who were famous
> worldwide for a while because of one song that won a contest. The
> members still perform individually, but their hits are only played
> ironically.

Right, and there were some like that actually in the sixties as well,
just as there are now. But that hardly proves anything other than there
will always be some good, not so good, and bad acts.

Trevor.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >, Trevor > wrote:
>I don't really agree with that. IME it's the moderately talented artists
>with great marketing that are doing the best, while far more talented
>artists are struggling. To be clear I am talking about actual musical
>proficiency here since artistic "merit" is very much in the ear of the
>beholder, and it could be argued that "talent" is fairly judged by
>CD/ticket sales. I would argue the huge money made by some artists who
>cannot play an instrument, and cannot sing without a "guide track",
>auto-tune, and "back-up" singers doing the real lead parts, might
>suggest otherwise. :-(

This is indeed true. The thing is, I am not sure it was any different
forty years ago.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >, Trevor > wrote:
>On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> Frank Stearns > wrote:
>>> The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
>>> now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
>>> Most likely not.
>>
>> I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of time,
>> but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
>> happened to the pop music of the sixties
>
>Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
>Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
>oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)

They remember those guys. What they don't remember are Jan and Dean, the
1910 Fruitgum Company, the Fun and Games, the Standells, the Hi-Rollers,
The Mystery Trend, The Magic Mushrooms, The Electric Prunes, Paul Revere
and the Raiders, Fenwyck, The Weevils, Sam the Sham, the Royal Guardsmen,
and so forth.
--scott

>
>Trevor.
>
>


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Neil Gould]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >, Trevor >
> wrote:
>> I don't really agree with that. IME it's the moderately talented
>> artists with great marketing that are doing the best, while far more
>> talented artists are struggling. To be clear I am talking about
>> actual musical proficiency here since artistic "merit" is very much
>> in the ear of the beholder, and it could be argued that "talent" is
>> fairly judged by CD/ticket sales. I would argue the huge money made
>> by some artists who cannot play an instrument, and cannot sing
>> without a "guide track", auto-tune, and "back-up" singers doing the
>> real lead parts, might suggest otherwise. :-(
>
> This is indeed true. The thing is, I am not sure it was any different
> forty years ago.
>
There have always been concurrent "entertainers" and musical virtuosos, and
I don't see much reason to conflate the two categories. I still enjoy
listening to May West sing when one of her movies come on, but not
necessarily for her proficiency as a vocalist. ;-)
--
best regards,

Neil

[John Williamson]

On 27/01/2015 13:53, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >, Trevor > wrote:
>> On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> Frank Stearns > wrote:
>>>> The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
>>>> now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
>>>> Most likely not.
>>>
>>> I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of time,
>>> but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
>>> happened to the pop music of the sixties
>>
>> Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
>> Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
>> oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)
>
> They remember those guys. What they don't remember are Jan and Dean, the
> 1910 Fruitgum Company, the Fun and Games, the Standells, the Hi-Rollers,
> The Mystery Trend, The Magic Mushrooms, The Electric Prunes, Paul Revere
> and the Raiders, Fenwyck, The Weevils, Sam the Sham, the Royal Guardsmen,
> and so forth.
> --scott

I do... :-)

Well, the ones that charted in the UK, anyway. Then again, I've been
known to host the odd 60s revival disco.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[John Williamson]

On 27/01/2015 13:49, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >, Trevor > wrote:
>> I don't really agree with that. IME it's the moderately talented artists
>> with great marketing that are doing the best, while far more talented
>> artists are struggling. To be clear I am talking about actual musical
>> proficiency here since artistic "merit" is very much in the ear of the
>> beholder, and it could be argued that "talent" is fairly judged by
>> CD/ticket sales. I would argue the huge money made by some artists who
>> cannot play an instrument, and cannot sing without a "guide track",
>> auto-tune, and "back-up" singers doing the real lead parts, might
>> suggest otherwise. :-(
>
> This is indeed true. The thing is, I am not sure it was any different
> forty years ago.
> --scott
>
The difference was that in the days before cheap home studios to get
really famous, the artistes needed to impress the A&R guys enough to
sign the authorisation for the studio time, which weeded quite a few
out. They still played live, of course, and there were some really good
people playing in pubs that I visited. There were also some really bad
people playing in pubs that I visited briefly.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey > wrote:

> Paul Revere and the Raiders,

Kept touring successfully, if under the big radar, until he passed away
last year! People tell me he was a fine guy, and that the shows were
extremely entertaining and loads of fun.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Scott Dorsey]

hank alrich > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>
>> Paul Revere and the Raiders,
>
>Kept touring successfully, if under the big radar, until he passed away
>last year! People tell me he was a fine guy, and that the shows were
>extremely entertaining and loads of fun.

Yes! There's an example of a very fine performer who actually put out a
lot of good music, but who had one hit, dropped off the charts, and never
got any of his other work recognized.

But... he had a hit, which is more than a lot of other fine performers
could say. And he seemed to have had a good time.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[PStamler]

On Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 7:53:55 AM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >, Trevor > wrote:
> >On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >> Frank Stearns > wrote:
> >>> The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
> >>> now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
> >>> Most likely not.
> >>
> >> I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of time,
> >> but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
> >> happened to the pop music of the sixties
> >
> >Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
> >Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
> >oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)
>
> They remember those guys. What they don't remember are Jan and Dean, the
> 1910 Fruitgum Company, the Fun and Games, the Standells, the Hi-Rollers,
> The Mystery Trend, The Magic Mushrooms, The Electric Prunes, Paul Revere
> and the Raiders, Fenwyck, The Weevils, Sam the Sham, the Royal Guardsmen,
> and so forth.

Not to mention the Serpent Power. I was damfool enough to buy their album because I trusted that Vanguard would never put out total trash. I was wrong.

Peace,
Paul

[Trevor]

On 28/01/2015 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >, Trevor > wrote:
>> On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> Frank Stearns > wrote:
>>>> The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
>>>> now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
>>>> Most likely not.
>>>
>>> I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of time,
>>> but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
>>> happened to the pop music of the sixties
>>
>> Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
>> Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
>> oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)
>
> They remember those guys. What they don't remember are Jan and Dean, the
> 1910 Fruitgum Company, the Fun and Games, the Standells, the Hi-Rollers,
> The Mystery Trend, The Magic Mushrooms, The Electric Prunes, Paul Revere
> and the Raiders, Fenwyck, The Weevils, Sam the Sham, the Royal Guardsmen,
> and so forth.
> --scott

So what, there are always LOTS of artists who have a hit or two and are
never heard of again. Plenty now will fill the same role. What I claim,
and you seem to disagree with (fine since it's a matter of opinion and
impossible to prove) is that there are far more artists from the sixties
and seventies who have stood the test of time, than (again IMO) will
today's artists, and that none will be remembered in the same light as
the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Elvis Presley etc.

And personally I'd still rather listen to Paul Revere, or the Royal
Guardsmen than most of today's rap music, actually I do! :-)
I can even get a smile out of my friends kids by playing Snoopy Vs the
Red Baron. Now if you want to talk crap from days of old, there are far
better examples IMO, although perhaps 1910's "Yummy Yummy" probably
comes very close!!

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 28/01/2015 4:00 AM, John Williamson wrote:
> The difference was that in the days before cheap home studios to get
> really famous, the artistes needed to impress the A&R guys enough to
> sign the authorisation for the studio time, which weeded quite a few
> out.

Unfortunately the A&R guys didn't have a very good track record for
picking winners. I far prefer the fact that artists can now record a CD
at little cost, promote themselves, and let the public decide rather
than the cigar chompers who dismissed the Beatles etc.

Trevor.

[Luxey]

субота, 31. јануар 2015. 01.34.03 UTC+1, JackA је написао/ла:

> Unofficially published (complete session version):
> http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/4whatitsworth-er.mp3

WTF is this? Who is doing all these mixes you post and why? For what it's worth, you cant ruin an excellent song, one former prominent RAPer used to say: "nobody
ever left the studio whistling console", but original commercial mixes speak so
much more than this flat wannabe crap, IMO, you're posting here.

[JackA]

On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 8:01:09 PM UTC-5, Luxey wrote:
> субота, 31. јануар 2015. 01.34.03 UTC+1, JackA је написао/ла:
>
> > Unofficially published (complete session version):
> > http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/4whatitsworth-er.mp3
>
> WTF is this? Who is doing all these mixes you post and why? For what it's worth, you cant ruin an excellent song, one former prominent RAPer used to say: "nobody
> ever left the studio whistling console", but original commercial mixes speak so
> much more than this flat wannabe crap, IMO, you're posting here.

I do all my mixes, nothing is faked, nothing artificially extended. You may call it crap or anything else you wish. All I know, without me, jellybean, you'll be like many others thinking you heard the complete song! Excuse me now, have to update a few thousand lyrics sites!!! :-)

Any leave KMA alone, he's a good person and valued participant here!!

Jack