Home studio setup - Protools or Layla? Mac or PC? Paper or plastic?

[GP]

Hey everyone - new poster here. I've been lurking and reading as much
as possible, but I still have some questions about setting up a home
studio, and I'd be grateful for any advice.

I would like a computer-based setup that will allow me to make quality
recordings of my band's work. I'm not talking about demo quality here
- I'd like to actually record our next album with this setup.

My thought was to get a Mac; probably a G5, or at the very least, a
dual G4 (I've been a PC user for years but I'm amenable to switching).
I've considered going the Protools route with a Digi 002, but that
alone would run about $2000, and when we add the computer and
everything else we're getting up above $5000. Another option I've
thought about is the Echo Layla24, but I'm unclear as to whether I'd
need a separate mixer, and if I did, that might not make this option
any more economical. I've also read posts lauding the quality of
units such as the MOTU 828. Will I need separate mic pre's for
any/all of these units?

Recording drums at home may prove to be difficult, and therein lies an
advantage of Protools: I figure (correctly, I hope) that I can record
the drums in a Protools-equipped studio, then bring the tracks home
and add in the vocals and remaining instruments. I would, however, be
paying a large premium for this convenience. Moreover, I may be wrong
about the difficulty in recording drums at home.

I should also mention that I do not typically use MIDI - although I do
wish to incorporate piano into future recordings, and lugging my
upright down to the basement seems both silly and sonically
irresponsible.

So with all that in mind, I respectfully ask for your thoughts and
advice. Thanks!

-G

[Steven Sena]

You want to make a world class recording you got to spend world class money.
But he musical arrangement is paramount...!
Then all the rest of it...


--
Steven Sena
XS Sound
www.xssound.com


"GP" > wrote in message
om...
> Hey everyone - new poster here. I've been lurking and reading as much
> as possible, but I still have some questions about setting up a home
> studio, and I'd be grateful for any advice.
>
> I would like a computer-based setup that will allow me to make quality
> recordings of my band's work. I'm not talking about demo quality here
> - I'd like to actually record our next album with this setup.
>
> My thought was to get a Mac; probably a G5, or at the very least, a
> dual G4 (I've been a PC user for years but I'm amenable to switching).
> I've considered going the Protools route with a Digi 002, but that
> alone would run about $2000, and when we add the computer and
> everything else we're getting up above $5000. Another option I've
> thought about is the Echo Layla24, but I'm unclear as to whether I'd
> need a separate mixer, and if I did, that might not make this option
> any more economical. I've also read posts lauding the quality of
> units such as the MOTU 828. Will I need separate mic pre's for
> any/all of these units?
>
> Recording drums at home may prove to be difficult, and therein lies an
> advantage of Protools: I figure (correctly, I hope) that I can record
> the drums in a Protools-equipped studio, then bring the tracks home
> and add in the vocals and remaining instruments. I would, however, be
> paying a large premium for this convenience. Moreover, I may be wrong
> about the difficulty in recording drums at home.
>
> I should also mention that I do not typically use MIDI - although I do
> wish to incorporate piano into future recordings, and lugging my
> upright down to the basement seems both silly and sonically
> irresponsible.
>
> So with all that in mind, I respectfully ask for your thoughts and
> advice. Thanks!
>
> -G

[John Cafarella]

"GP" > wrote in message
om...
> Hey everyone - new poster here. I've been lurking and reading as much
> as possible, but I still have some questions about setting up a home
> studio, and I'd be grateful for any advice.
>
> I would like a computer-based setup that will allow me to make quality
> recordings of my band's work. I'm not talking about demo quality here
> - I'd like to actually record our next album with this setup.

From the tone of your post, it seems that you don't have a lot of experience
with this stuff. I'm answering presuming I'm right about that....
Apologies if I've misjudged.


Decision time for you dude...


The real question here is not Mac vs PC, Digi vs MOTU etc. The _real_
question is: Do I want a new album for the band or do I want a new
hobby/career?

The fact is, you're definitely gonna churn out a load of crap recordings
before you make a reasonable one. You're gonna churn out quite a few
reasonable ones before you make a good one. You're gonna churn out heaps of
good ones before you make a great one.

When did you say you wanted that album? If you've got a good ear, and have
some good people to help and advise you, you're probably looking at least a
year or two to get to the "reasonable" stage. Maybe. It depends. YMMV.

Oh, and by the time you get to the good recording, you'll probably have
spent 10x the amount that recording an album would have cost.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you to not buy studio gear, but to just
be realistic. You've got to really love this stuff and spend a _LOT_ of
time to get good at it. As an example, I've been doing studio stuff at
home on and off (mostly off) for about 20 years, and I reckon I've nearly,
maybe, kinda, graduated from the "reasonable" stage. <g>

>
> My thought was to get a Mac; probably a G5, or at the very least, a
> dual G4 (I've been a PC user for years but I'm amenable to switching).
> I've considered going the Protools route with a Digi 002, but that
> alone would run about $2000, and when we add the computer and
> everything else we're getting up above $5000. Another option I've
> thought about is the Echo Layla24, but I'm unclear as to whether I'd
> need a separate mixer, and if I did, that might not make this option
> any more economical. I've also read posts lauding the quality of
> units such as the MOTU 828. Will I need separate mic pre's for
> any/all of these units?

You should be able to get decent results with any of the above. Yes you'll
need some external mic pre's.

>
> Recording drums at home may prove to be difficult, and therein lies an
> advantage of Protools: I figure (correctly, I hope) that I can record
> the drums in a Protools-equipped studio, then bring the tracks home
> and add in the vocals and remaining instruments. I would, however, be
> paying a large premium for this convenience. Moreover, I may be wrong
> about the difficulty in recording drums at home.

Drums can be difficult. Especially if you put up too many mics <g>.
One thing you haven't mentioned at all is the space you're recording in.
You'll need a decent sounding room to get good drum recordings.

>
> I should also mention that I do not typically use MIDI - although I do
> wish to incorporate piano into future recordings, and lugging my
> upright down to the basement seems both silly and sonically
> irresponsible.

So run some tie lines upstairs and get someone else to hit the record button
for you

>
> So with all that in mind, I respectfully ask for your thoughts and
> advice. Thanks!

If you REALLY want an album that you recorded at home in a reasonable time
frame, how about this suggestion:
- buy some decent gear
- Hire a decent engineer (maybe get him to advise what to buy) to do the
recording/mix
- Act as intern for him and suck his brain dry

Cheers

--
John Cafarella
EOR Studio
Melbourne Australia
[ cafarellaj at powertel dot com dot au ]

[EganMedia]

>I would like a computer-based setup that will allow me to make quality
>recordings of my band's work. I'm not talking about demo quality here
>- I'd like to actually record our next album with this setup.

Regardless of the gear you buy, plan to record a bunch of albums that sound
like demos while you learn the craft. It's certainly not rocket science, but
there are reasons good recording engineers get paid for what they do.

The computer platform is only as important as the software you're planning to
run on it., and the software is less important than the sounds you're working
on. You're going to want to have a good listening environment and a good pair
of monitors before you worry about what software you're using.

Any decent i/o and any decent editing program can acheive good results. Those
aren't going to be he weak links in the chain. Assuming the songs,
arrangements, and performances are "album quality", the weak links are likely
to be: The recording room, the listening environment, the mics and preamps and
the skill set of a just-beginning engineer.

I say go for it. Just don't be disapointed if there is a substantial
qualitative difference between your first recording project and and your
favorite albums.


Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com

[Arny Krueger]

"John Cafarella" > wrote in message


> The real question here is not Mac vs PC, Digi vs MOTU etc. The
> _real_ question is: Do I want a new album for the band or do I want a
> new hobby/career?
>
> The fact is, you're definitely gonna churn out a load of crap
> recordings before you make a reasonable one. You're gonna churn out
> quite a few reasonable ones before you make a good one. You're gonna
> churn out heaps of good ones before you make a great one.
>
> When did you say you wanted that album? If you've got a good ear,
> and have some good people to help and advise you, you're probably
> looking at least a year or two to get to the "reasonable" stage.
> Maybe. It depends. YMMV.
>
> Oh, and by the time you get to the good recording, you'll probably
> have spent 10x the amount that recording an album would have cost.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you to not buy studio gear, but
> to just be realistic. You've got to really love this stuff and spend
> a _LOT_ of time to get good at it. As an example, I've been doing
> studio stuff at home on and off (mostly off) for about 20 years, and
> I reckon I've nearly, maybe, kinda, graduated from the "reasonable"
> stage. <g>

Oh, so very nicely put!

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I would like a computer-based setup that will allow me to make quality
> recordings of my band's work. I'm not talking about demo quality here
> - I'd like to actually record our next album with this setup.
>
> My thought was to get a Mac; probably a G5, or at the very least, a
> dual G4 (I've been a PC user for years but I'm amenable to switching).
> I've considered going the Protools route with a Digi 002, but that
> alone would run about $2000, and when we add the computer and
> everything else we're getting up above $5000.

Novice Alert! If this is too much to record your band's CD, perhaps
you should be rehearsing more and going to a studio that already has
the gear. You'll work faster and probably save half that amount.

> Another option I've
> thought about is the Echo Layla24, but I'm unclear as to whether I'd
> need a separate mixer, and if I did, that might not make this option
> any more economical.

The Digidesign 002 actually mixes your tracks using the ProTools
software. The knobs are only "handles" that control the software.
Well, maybe you can do some analog mixing at the input on the 002
(like mixing several mics on the drums to two tracks on the computer,
but most people don't, even if the unit has that capability).

With the Layla and whatever software you choose to use along with it,
you'll still be using the computer as your mixer. The Digi 002 has
some mic preamps built in, while the Layla doesn't, so that's one
difference that you'll have to account for (and buy - could be a
mixer, could be $100 preamps, could be $3000 preamps - your choice).

The nice thing about the Digidesign package is that you can open the
box, plug it in, install the software, and start recording. You'll
be recording in a format that's become about as standard in the studio
world as 2" analog tape in its day, so should you decide to go to a
professonal studio for some mixing help or to record with a really
good piano, or record drums or vocals in a great room with great mics,
you can easily transport your project. If you use a Layla and whatever
program comes along with it (it used to be Cool Edit Pro, but I'm not
sure if that's still the case since Adobe bought Syntrillium) or some
other software of your choice, you might have a compatability problem
should you decide to do some of your work in another studio.

> Recording drums at home may prove to be difficult, and therein lies an
> advantage of Protools: I figure (correctly, I hope) that I can record
> the drums in a Protools-equipped studio, then bring the tracks home
> and add in the vocals and remaining instruments. I would, however, be
> paying a large premium for this convenience. Moreover, I may be wrong
> about the difficulty in recording drums at home.

You're not wrong, and you should pay whatever you think your CD is
worth to you.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[GP]

First of all, thanks for responding, and no, you're not wrong about my
inexperience. I hope I don't get shouted down (by others) for that.

> The real question here is not Mac vs PC, Digi vs MOTU etc. The _real_
> question is: Do I want a new album for the band or do I want a new
> hobby/career?

The latter.

> When did you say you wanted that album? If you've got a good ear, and have
> some good people to help and advise you, you're probably looking at least a
> year or two to get to the "reasonable" stage. Maybe. It depends. YMMV.

No timetable. My plan is to learn as much as I can, and if I get to
the point where I'm competent enough to record an album, then I'll do
it. And I do have a good ear, and good people to help me out, though
I don't yet have a great deal of technical knowledge.

> Oh, and by the time you get to the good recording, you'll probably have
> spent 10x the amount that recording an album would have cost.

I don't doubt that you're right, but why is that? What kind of
additional costs are you talking about?

[Mike]

(GP) wrote in message >...
> Hey everyone - new poster here. I've been lurking and reading as much
> as possible, but I still have some questions about setting up a home
> studio, and I'd be grateful for any advice.
>
> I would like a computer-based setup that will allow me to make quality
> recordings of my band's work. I'm not talking about demo quality here
> - I'd like to actually record our next album with this setup.
>
> My thought was to get a Mac; probably a G5, or at the very least, a
> dual G4 (I've been a PC user for years but I'm amenable to switching).
> I've considered going the Protools route with a Digi 002, but that
> alone would run about $2000, and when we add the computer and
> everything else we're getting up above $5000. Another option I've
> thought about is the Echo Layla24, but I'm unclear as to whether I'd
> need a separate mixer, and if I did, that might not make this option
> any more economical. I've also read posts lauding the quality of
> units such as the MOTU 828. Will I need separate mic pre's for
> any/all of these units?
>
> Recording drums at home may prove to be difficult, and therein lies an
> advantage of Protools: I figure (correctly, I hope) that I can record
> the drums in a Protools-equipped studio, then bring the tracks home
> and add in the vocals and remaining instruments. I would, however, be
> paying a large premium for this convenience. Moreover, I may be wrong
> about the difficulty in recording drums at home.
>
> I should also mention that I do not typically use MIDI - although I do
> wish to incorporate piano into future recordings, and lugging my
> upright down to the basement seems both silly and sonically
> irresponsible.
>
> So with all that in mind, I respectfully ask for your thoughts and
> advice. Thanks!
>
> -G

What I would do if I were you was get a basic system. Grab yourself a
Mackie 1604 (around a grand?) and maybe a a motu 828 (around 700) and
and say 6 sm57's.

Hook it up and pretty much record your band live. Throw one 57 on your
drum kick and one overhead. Mic guitar cabs a good 6 inches from the
speaker. Run the bass direct using a direct box (40 bucks). Just do
several takes till you get a good straight live performance.

After you do all this sit back, admire your work, and then go into a
studio and pay for it. You will be better practiced for the studio,
you will start to appreciate the process, and you will have gotten a
start on recording. You will have nice CD from the studio and you can
come back and relax while working on your next project at home.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

[John Cafarella]

"GP" > wrote in message
om...
..
> > Oh, and by the time you get to the good recording, you'll probably have
> > spent 10x the amount that recording an album would have cost.
>
> I don't doubt that you're right, but why is that? What kind of
> additional costs are you talking about?

Mics
Patchbay
Monitors
Multiple sets of headphones, then replacements for wear and tear
Acoustic treatment for your room(s)
Soundproofing
Quiet air conditioning
Mic stands
Cables
patchbay
Mic preamps

then perhaps....
Upgrade of PC a few times.
Upgrade of software to match
Perhaps upgrade of audio interface
You want to get an analogue tape machine..
A mixing desk to go with it

Sorry but this is all I could think of in about 15 sec <g>. I'm sure
someone will fill in the gaps

ps
Don't forget to pay attention to the social/family impact of spending a lot
of your weekend and nights in your basement.

--
John Cafarella
EOR Studio
Melbourne Australia
[ cafarellaj at powertel dot com dot au ]