Source for a power adapter?

[Tobiah]

I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power supply.
The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a replacement
and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but my experience
is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries and power supplies.
I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two different vendors that were rated
at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver 300-500ma. I know that there are many
name brand counterfeits on ebay for batteries and power supplies. There were
many auctions that called out my exact interface: "Power supply for M-Audio
Fast Track Ultra". Then I'd zoom into the photo and see that the supply was
rated at 500ma, or 4 volts, etc.

So the question is, aside from finding an OEM, which would be cool, where
can I go to get such a power supply where I can trust that the device ratings
will be accurate.

Thanks,

Toby

[gareth magennis]

You don't say where you live, so I assume you are in the USA.


http://www.newark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?catalogId=15003&langId=-1&storeId=10194&categoryId=800000005774&pageSize=25&showResults=true&pf=811288531,811353662



Cheers,


Gareth.




"Tobiah" wrote in message ...

I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power supply.
The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a replacement
and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but my experience
is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries and power supplies.
I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two different vendors that were
rated
at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver 300-500ma. I know that there are many
name brand counterfeits on ebay for batteries and power supplies. There
were
many auctions that called out my exact interface: "Power supply for M-Audio
Fast Track Ultra". Then I'd zoom into the photo and see that the supply was
rated at 500ma, or 4 volts, etc.

So the question is, aside from finding an OEM, which would be cool, where
can I go to get such a power supply where I can trust that the device
ratings
will be accurate.

Thanks,

Toby

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

Tobiah > wrote:
> I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power
> supply. The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a
> replacement and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but
> my experience is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries
> and power supplies. I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two
> different vendors that were rated at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver
> 300-500ma. I know that there are many name brand counterfeits on ebay
> for batteries and power supplies. There were many auctions that called
> out my exact interface: "Power supply for M-Audio Fast Track Ultra".
> Then I'd zoom into the photo and see that the supply was rated at 500ma,
> or 4 volts, etc.
>
> So the question is, aside from finding an OEM, which would be cool, where
> can I go to get such a power supply where I can trust that the device
> ratings will be accurate.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Toby

How did you determine that the 2.1A supply could only deliver 300-500ma?
Could it be that is all the interface device draws? Or, did you load the
supply with a resistor decade box and reduce the load until the current
curve flattened out? [2.1A x 5V = 10.5W in 2.38 ohms. Most decade boxes
don't use 10W resistors]

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[William Sommerwerck]

"Tobiah" wrote in message ...

I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power supply.
The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a replacement
and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but my experience
is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries and power supplies.
I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two different vendors that were
rated
at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver 300-500mA. I know that there are many
name brand counterfeits on ebay for batteries and power supplies. There were
many auctions that called out my exact interface: "Power supply for M-Audio
Fast Track Ultra". Then I'd zoom into the photo and see that the supply was
rated at 500mA, or 4 volts, etc.

So the question is, aside from finding an OEM, which would be cool, where
can I go to get such a power supply where I can trust that the device ratings
will be accurate.

---------------------------------------------------
It's amazing that none of the suppliers for a power supply for this unit get
the voltage or current correct! You're right -- they're all 5V 500mA! Duh.

I searched for "5V 2A adapter", and got almost 4000 responses. They're fairly
cheap, so you can probably take a chance -- the only issue being the plug's
dimensions and polarity. (Many 5V supplies have narrow plugs. You might ask M
Audio if a 6V adapter is acceptable.)

[Jay Ts[_4_]]

On Tue, 01 Jul 2014, Tobiah wrote:
> I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power
> supply.
> The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output.

That is not enough information. You also need to know the size of the
plug and check the polarity (usually, it's center positive).

The connector is usually a barrel style, with an outside diameter and an
inside diameter for the center connector. Common sizes for the center pin
are 2.5, 2.1 and 1.7 mm. It is easy to confuse 2.5 and 2.1 mm sizes, so
be careful.

> I started looking for a
> replacement and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but
> my experience is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries
> and power supplies.

Yes. Many non-OEM power supplies from China are not even safe. I've heard
stories of how they design a circuit to pass the FCC, then ship the
product with components missing, no longer within FCC specs, just to save
some money. Bad power supplies can put common mode high frequency noise
on the outputs, and ... who knows what else?

Fortunately, there are also good brands, and if you work through an OEM
or reputable distributer, they will filter off the bad stuff for you.

> There were many auctions that called out my exact interface:
> "Power supply for M-Audio Fast Track Ultra". Then I'd zoom into the
> photo and see that the supply was rated at 500ma, or 4 volts, etc.
>
> So the question is, aside from finding an OEM, which would be cool,
> where can I go to get such a power supply where I can trust that the
> device ratings will be accurate.

Here are URLs you can use as starting points for searches at Mouser and
Digi-Key, two of the largest electronic component distributors in the USA:

http://www.mouser.com/Power/Power-Supplies/Plug-In-AC-Adapters/_/N-
brvy9Zscv7?P=1yxt7euZ1yxt794Z1yxt7bd&Keyword=power
+adapter&FS=True&Ns=Pricing|0

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?FV=fff40009%2Cfff8004a%2C4f80059%
2C11800192&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

Mouser is closer to me and I'm a lot more familiar with them, but many on
the Internet swear by Digi-Key. They are both good. I see a Triad
Magnetics WSU050-2000 adapter at Mouser for $8.99. I've had good
experiences with Triad so far.

You should look at the product datasheets to check that the plug is the
size and polarity you need. Sometimes the specifications listed on the
item's page are incorrect, so always check the datasheet before
committing to a purchase. To continue the example:

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/410/WSU-Series%20datasheet%20%282012%
29-310878.pdf

At the bottom, you can see in the diagram that it is for a 2.1mm center
pin. If you need one for 2.5mm, you will have to look at a different
model.

[Tobiah]

On 07/01/2014 10:18 AM, Roy W. Rising wrote:
> Tobiah > wrote:
>> I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power
>> supply. The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a
>> replacement and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but
>> my experience is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries
>> and power supplies. I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two
>> different vendors that were rated at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver
>> 300-500ma. I know that there are many name brand counterfeits on ebay
>> for batteries and power supplies. There were many auctions that called
>> out my exact interface: "Power supply for M-Audio Fast Track Ultra".
>> Then I'd zoom into the photo and see that the supply was rated at 500ma,
>> or 4 volts, etc.
>>
>> So the question is, aside from finding an OEM, which would be cool, where
>> can I go to get such a power supply where I can trust that the device
>> ratings will be accurate.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Toby
>
> How did you determine that the 2.1A supply could only deliver 300-500ma?
> Could it be that is all the interface device draws? Or, did you load the
> supply with a resistor decade box and reduce the load until the current
> curve flattened out? [2.1A x 5V = 10.5W in 2.38 ohms. Most decade boxes
> don't use 10W resistors]
>

I bought a little inline usb meter when I found that my phone wasn't charging
very well. The ebay chargers delivered a half Amp or less into my phone, while my
OEM charger was doing close to 2 Amps. I also found an app for my phone that
tells what it's getting, and it agrees with the meter.

Tobiah

[Sean Conolly]

"Tobiah" > wrote in message
...
>I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power supply.
> The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a
> replacement
> and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but my experience
> is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries and power
> supplies.
> I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two different vendors that
> were rated
> at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver 300-500ma. I know that there are many
> name brand counterfeits on ebay for batteries and power supplies. There
> were
> many auctions that called out my exact interface: "Power supply for
> M-Audio
> Fast Track Ultra". Then I'd zoom into the photo and see that the supply
> was
> rated at 500ma, or 4 volts, etc.
>
> So the question is, aside from finding an OEM, which would be cool, where
> can I go to get such a power supply where I can trust that the device
> ratings
> will be accurate.

There's a lot of surplus supplies available out there, here's a page of 5V
supplies:
http://www.mpja.com/5-Volt-Power-Supply/products/534/

Honestly I'm a bit skeptical that the device is really going to dissipate
10W for very long. I'd hook it up to a bench supply and see what it really
draws.

Sean

[geoff]

On 2/07/2014 5:18 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:

> will be accurate.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> It's amazing that none of the suppliers for a power supply for this unit
> get the voltage or current correct! You're right -- they're all 5V
> 500mA! Duh.
>
> I searched for "5V 2A adapter", and got almost 4000 responses. They're
> fairly cheap, so you can probably take a chance -- the only issue being
> the plug's dimensions and polarity. (Many 5V supplies have narrow plugs.
> You might ask M Audio if a 6V adapter is acceptable.)

6V will NOT be ok. The internals likely require 5V, and if original
supply is 5V that is what it needs.

You might get away with a (significantly, say 9V) charger if there was
an internal regulator, but as original the original requires 5V it is
relying on the external supply being that regulated 5V already.

Oh, and 5V 2A PSU - go to almost any small appliance or electronic hobby
store. Here at least ...


geoff

[gareth magennis]

"Sean Conolly" wrote in message ...

"Tobiah" > wrote in message
...
>I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power supply.
> The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a
> replacement
> and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but my experience
> is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries and power
> supplies.
> I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two different vendors that
> were rated
> at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver 300-500ma. I know that there are many
> name brand counterfeits on ebay for batteries and power supplies. There
> were
> many auctions that called out my exact interface: "Power supply for
> M-Audio
> Fast Track Ultra". Then I'd zoom into the photo and see that the supply
> was
> rated at 500ma, or 4 volts, etc.
>
> So the question is, aside from finding an OEM, which would be cool, where
> can I go to get such a power supply where I can trust that the device
> ratings
> will be accurate.

There's a lot of surplus supplies available out there, here's a page of 5V
supplies:
http://www.mpja.com/5-Volt-Power-Supply/products/534/





I thought the whole point of this post was to circumvent probably shonky
goods, such as you have just pointed to.

Go with the big distributers - Newark, DigiKey, Mouser etc and you will NOT
be sold a piece of crap.

Probably.



Gareth.

[William Sommerwerck]

"geoff" wrote in message ...

> 6V will NOT be ok.

And you know that... how? Many Sony products come with power supplies whose
rated voltage is well-above the nominal battery voltage.

[gareth magennis]

"geoff" wrote in message
...

On 2/07/2014 5:18 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:

> will be accurate.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> It's amazing that none of the suppliers for a power supply for this unit
> get the voltage or current correct! You're right -- they're all 5V
> 500mA! Duh.
>
> I searched for "5V 2A adapter", and got almost 4000 responses. They're
> fairly cheap, so you can probably take a chance -- the only issue being
> the plug's dimensions and polarity. (Many 5V supplies have narrow plugs.
> You might ask M Audio if a 6V adapter is acceptable.)

6V will NOT be ok. The internals likely require 5V, and if original
supply is 5V that is what it needs.

You might get away with a (significantly, say 9V) charger if there was
an internal regulator, but as original the original requires 5V it is
relying on the external supply being that regulated 5V already.

Oh, and 5V 2A PSU - go to almost any small appliance or electronic hobby
store. Here at least ...





I suspect that any device requiring a 5v power supply does not rely on the
fact that it will receive a 5v regulated supply to run properly.

More likely that this device regulates this 5v supply internally to provide
3.3v to the associated digital stuff inside, and/or generates other voltages
as required.



Gareth.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >, Tobiah > wrote:
>I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power supply.
>The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a replacement
>and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but my experience
>is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries and power supplies.

Go to digi-key. Get the paper catalogue, don't fight with the horrible web
page interface. They have three or four different wall-wart vendors, with
pictures. Pick the current, the voltage, the degree of regulation, and
the correct connector.

>I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two different vendors that were rated
>at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver 300-500ma.

Okay, USB devices are a different thing altogether, because USB is supposed
to be limited to about 500mA until the device specially requests more current
over the USB interface. You can't just chop the connector off a USB charger
and put a coaxial connector on and expect it to deliver more than 500mA.

Also note that most USB chargers are pretty damn noisy. You're much better
off with a linear supply.

>So the question is, aside from finding an OEM, which would be cool, where
>can I go to get such a power supply where I can trust that the device ratings
>will be accurate.

If you buy from a legitimate supplier like Digi-Key or Mouser, you can expect
that the device will meet specifications. You need to look carefully at the
specifications, though.

Was the original supply a linear "line lump" type that was heavy, or was it
a light switching supply wall wart?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article >,
William Sommerwerck > wrote:
> "geoff" wrote in message ...

> > 6V will NOT be ok.

> And you know that... how? Many Sony products come with power supplies
> whose rated voltage is well-above the nominal battery voltage.

If it needs a five volt supply it doesn't sound like it was designed with
batteries in mind?

--
*Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Jay Ts[_4_]]

On Tue, 01 Jul 2014, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> "geoff" and
>
> William Sommerwerck wrote:

> 6V will NOT be ok. The internals likely require 5V, and if original
> supply is 5V that is what it needs.
>
> You might get away with a (significantly, say 9V) charger if there was
> an internal regulator, but as original the original requires 5V it is
> relying on the external supply being that regulated 5V already.
>
>
>
> I suspect that any device requiring a 5v power supply does not rely on
> the fact that it will receive a 5v regulated supply to run properly.
>
> More likely that this device regulates this 5v supply internally to
> provide 3.3v to the associated digital stuff inside, and/or generates
> other voltages as required.

This is getting into the ugly realities of power adapters.

Most I've seen are unregulated, so the rating listed on it really means
more like "at least 5 volts DC at a current of 2000 mA."

For an unregulated adapter, if you measure the voltage when the adapter
is not plugged into the device, you often read 2 more more volts above
what is printed on it. If the circuit does not need *any* regulation,
then the ripple voltage typically will increase as the circuit draws more
power, but it shouldn't matter. I expect this is *not* the case for the
OP's audio adapter.

For a circuit that requires regulated voltage (most audio circuits),
voltage regulators typically allow the input voltage from the power
adapter to be far higher than the regulated output. In the case if a
common 78xx regulator, up to 37 volts.

But the same regulator won't work right if the input voltage is too low,
and it needs to be 1.5-2 volts above the regulated voltage. So you might
get away with a 6v adapter rather than the 5v OEM one, but to be careful,
it's not a good idea. The 6v adapter may provide 10 volts and who knows,
that might be too much for the specific circuit. I'm just saying it's
best to be careful.

There are also regulated power adapters, and if the circuit needs that
(because it lacks internal regulation, and depends on the power adapter),
then you need one! If you use an unregulated adapter instead, you may be
operating at the wrong voltage (that is, outside of the intended design),
plus you may get bad effects (hum) from the ripple in the power supply.

One common example of this is found with guitar effects pedals. The most
common require 9 volts DC, *regulated*, with center *negative*. An
unregulated 9v DC adapter may, depending on the pedal, produce large
amounts of hum, which might be confused with grounding (ground loop)
problems.

However, most other audio products (including all I've seen) have voltage
regulation inside the circuit, so an unregulated power adapter is fine.
(It's better engineering to do the regulation on the internal circuit
board rather than in the power adapter, because then either a regulated
or unregulated adapter will work. Also, I think it's generally less
expensive.)

[William Sommerwerck]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ...

In article >,
William Sommerwerck > wrote:
> "geoff" wrote in message
> ...

>>> 6V will NOT be ok.

>> And you know that... how? Many Sony products come with power
>> supplies whose rated voltage is well-above the nominal battery voltage.

> If it needs a five volt supply it doesn't sound like it was designed
> with batteries in mind?

Find concrete wall. Bang head against it.

Sony manufactured millions of Discmans powered by two AA cells, but come with
a 4.5V power adapter. That a product is designed for a particular voltage
doesn't mean it will be damaged by a slightly higher voltage.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 7/1/2014 3:13 PM, Tobiah wrote:
> I bought a little inline usb meter when I found that my phone wasn't
> charging
> very well. The ebay chargers delivered a half Amp or less into my
> phone, while my
> OEM charger was doing close to 2 Amps. I also found an app for my phone
> that
> tells what it's getting, and it agrees with the meter.

Geez, what will they think of next? I wanted to find the peak current
load presented to the USB port by the TASCAM US-122 after discovering
that when switching on the phantom power, one of my computers couldn't
handle the initial load and caused the interface to disconnect. I cut a
USB cable in the middle, soldered a 1 ohm resistor in series with the
power leads, and connected an oscilloscope across it.

Who makes the USB meter you used? I'd be interested to see one, or at
least see what it's actually measuring.


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 7/1/2014 6:39 PM, Jay Ts wrote:
> This is getting into the ugly realities of power adapters.
>
> Most I've seen are unregulated, so the rating listed on it really means
> more like "at least 5 volts DC at a current of 2000 mA."

Most of the power supplies for audio gear that I've encountered in the
past couple of years have been switching supplies that are extremely
well regulated and have much lower ripple than the old
transformer-diode-capacitor-goodluck wall warts.

Radio Shack has one that will do nicely, switchable from 3 to 7.5v, 2.5A
maximum current.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3875410

--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Jay Ts[_4_]]

On Tue, 01 Jul 2014, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
> If it needs a five volt supply it doesn't sound like it was designed
> with batteries in mind?

Five volts has been used since the 1970s as a positive supply for digital
circuitry, and parts that require 3.3 volts or lower can get it from
additional voltage regulators in the circuit. Since the unit in question
is a USB audio adapter, it may need 5 volts for that. (Caveat: I have
never designed USB interface circuitry. ;)

[Jay Ts[_4_]]

On Tue, 01 Jul 2014, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> Also note that most USB chargers are pretty damn noisy. You're much
> better off with a linear supply.

Yes, but ...

> Was the original supply a linear "line lump" type that was heavy, or was
> it a light switching supply wall wart?

He might not be able to get a linear supply anymore.

Some years ago, I got some Dunlop effects pedal power adapters, and they
were the traditional linear kind. But a year later I decided to get some
more, and from 2 different vendors, even though they showed photos of the
old style, I received smaller, lighter switching power supplies.

I was not happy about that, but started using them.

I had 3 of the switching supplies plugged in 24/7 for about 2.5 years, at
which time they were all failing, adding audible high frequency noise to
the sound of the pedals. I took one apart and found the cheapest circuit,
parts and construction imaginable, and I threw them all in the trash.

So I thought I should ask retailers of Dunlop products (Swee****er,
Musician's Friend, and some of the usual names) to see if they had any of
the linear style to sell me, and I could not find any. Most were still
showing photos of the linear style. Swee****er updated their image after
I pointed out the issue.

I was wondering what was going on, and I'm no legal expert, but found
some things in the federal act that banned 100 watt lightbulbs that
applied to power adapters. I think maybe the linear style was effectively
banned by that due to their lower efficiency.

If anyone knows more about that, I'm happy to hear from them.

[Tobiah]

On 7/1/2014 10:02 AM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> You don't say where you live, so I assume you are in the USA.

I'm just curious as to whether you assume I'm in the USA because
of some facet of my post, or whether the glaring omission of that
distinction was absent from it. A notable side affect of my
ingrained geocentricity (not a real word I gather) I'm sure.

Tobiah


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[Tobiah]

> Okay, USB devices are a different thing altogether, because USB is supposed
> to be limited to about 500mA until the device specially requests more current
> over the USB interface. You can't just chop the connector off a USB charger
> and put a coaxial connector on and expect it to deliver more than 500mA.

I should have mentioned that my phone is USB 3.0. It has that funky
wide double connector. I'm not looking it up right now, but I'm pretty
sure that 3.0 allows for a larger current at the get go.

Thanks,

Toby

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[Tobiah]

> Who makes the USB meter you used? I'd be interested to see one, or at
> least see what it's actually measuring.
>

It was somewhere around $6, and it probably came from the
same lame source as the chargers I was measuring. Still,
global conspiracy aside, it agreed with other sources and
measured my OEM charger where it should have been.

Look on ebay if you like. It's this little Wrigley's sized
charger in blue plastic. It alternately flashes current and
volts.

Thanks,

Tobiah




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[Sean Conolly]

"Gareth Magennis" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Sean Conolly" wrote in message ...
>
> "Tobiah" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power supply.
>> The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a
>> replacement
>> and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but my
>> experience
>> is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries and power
>> supplies.
>> I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two different vendors that
>> were rated
>> at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver 300-500ma. I know that there are
>> many
>> name brand counterfeits on ebay for batteries and power supplies. There
>> were
>> many auctions that called out my exact interface: "Power supply for
>> M-Audio
>> Fast Track Ultra". Then I'd zoom into the photo and see that the supply
>> was
>> rated at 500ma, or 4 volts, etc.
>>
>> So the question is, aside from finding an OEM, which would be cool, where
>> can I go to get such a power supply where I can trust that the device
>> ratings
>> will be accurate.
>
> There's a lot of surplus supplies available out there, here's a page of 5V
> supplies:
> http://www.mpja.com/5-Volt-Power-Supply/products/534/
>
>
>
>
>
> I thought the whole point of this post was to circumvent probably shonky
> goods, such as you have just pointed to.
>
> Go with the big distributers - Newark, DigiKey, Mouser etc and you will
> NOT be sold a piece of crap.
>
> Probably.

Just cause it's surplus doesn't mean it's junk - it can be a simple as made
for an EOL'd product, which I suspect is the case for the Cisco supply on
that page.

Sean

[geoff]

On 2/07/2014 9:32 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "geoff" wrote in message
> ...
>
>> 6V will NOT be ok.
> And you know that... how?


I fix them .

Many Sony products come with power supplies
> whose rated voltage is well-above the nominal battery voltage.

In which case there is likely an internal regulator in the device itself.


geoff

[geoff]

On 2/07/2014 10:50 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
> ...
>
> In article >,
> William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>> "geoff" wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>>> 6V will NOT be ok.
>
>>> And you know that... how? Many Sony products come with power
>>> supplies whose rated voltage is well-above the nominal battery voltage.
>
>> If it needs a five volt supply it doesn't sound like it was designed
>> with batteries in mind?
>
> Find concrete wall. Bang head against it.
>
> Sony manufactured millions of Discmans powered by two AA cells, but come
> with a 4.5V power adapter. That a product is designed for a particular
> voltage doesn't mean it will be damaged by a slightly higher voltage.


I a computer interface type device needs a 5V supply, then highly likely
it has internal chips that operate at 5V.

If a battery-powered device had a PSU the same voltage as it's
batteries, rechargables would likely not charge properly.

geoff

[geoff]

On 2/07/2014 9:47 a.m., Gareth Magennis wrote:
>
>
> "geoff" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On 2/07/2014 5:18 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
>> will be accurate.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> It's amazing that none of the suppliers for a power supply for this unit
>> get the voltage or current correct! You're right -- they're all 5V
>> 500mA! Duh.
>>
>> I searched for "5V 2A adapter", and got almost 4000 responses. They're
>> fairly cheap, so you can probably take a chance -- the only issue being
>> the plug's dimensions and polarity. (Many 5V supplies have narrow plugs.
>> You might ask M Audio if a 6V adapter is acceptable.)
>
> 6V will NOT be ok. The internals likely require 5V, and if original
> supply is 5V that is what it needs.
>
> You might get away with a (significantly, say 9V) charger if there was
> an internal regulator, but as original the original requires 5V it is
> relying on the external supply being that regulated 5V already.
>
> Oh, and 5V 2A PSU - go to almost any small appliance or electronic hobby
> store. Here at least ...
>
>
>
>
>
> I suspect that any device requiring a 5v power supply does not rely on
> the fact that it will receive a 5v regulated supply to run properly.
>
> More likely that this device regulates this 5v supply internally to
> provide 3.3v to the associated digital stuff inside, and/or generates
> other voltages as required.

Possibly - but easiest to have the correct voltage regulated SMPS in the
first place. 1.5v is marginal or inadequate differential for a linear
3.3V regulator - but could be an internal SMPS or buck-boost circuit.

Still best to use the recommended PSU though, IMO. Especially if little
effort to find one - and 5V is very standard.

geoff

[geoff]

On 2/07/2014 4:21 a.m., Tobiah wrote:
> I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power supply.
> The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a
> replacement
> and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but my experience
> is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries and power
> supplies.
> I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two different vendors that
> were rated
> at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver 300-500ma.

Maybe that was all the charging device was DRAWING.

The capacity of a PSU is the maximium available current (supposedly) -
that doesn't mean devices have to draw that current in any particular
situation.

geoff

[geoff]

On 2/07/2014 2:02 p.m., Jay Ts wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jul 2014, Scott Dorsey wrote:

>
> If anyone knows more about that, I'm happy to hear from them.
>

It's called MEPS :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_energy_performance_standard

The idea is that that devices when turned off "soft" still draw power
is transformer-based. SMPSs draw much much less in an idle state.

However there are some transformer-based PSU that are design to comply
with MEPS . Cost possibly becomes a factor there....

geoff

[John Williamson]

On 02/07/2014 08:47, geoff wrote:
> On 2/07/2014 4:21 a.m., Tobiah wrote:
>> I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power
>> supply.
>> The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a
>> replacement
>> and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but my
>> experience
>> is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries and power
>> supplies.
>> I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two different vendors that
>> were rated
>> at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver 300-500ma.
>
> Maybe that was all the charging device was DRAWING.
>
> The capacity of a PSU is the maximium available current (supposedly) -
> that doesn't mean devices have to draw that current in any particular
> situation.
>
Also, drawing more than the standard amount of current from a USB port
requires negotiation between the port and the device. There are a few
mutually incompatible ways of doing this in use.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[geoff]

On 2/07/2014 2:12 p.m., Tobiah wrote:
>
>> Okay, USB devices are a different thing altogether, because USB is
>> supposed
>> to be limited to about 500mA until the device specially requests more
>> current
>> over the USB interface. You can't just chop the connector off a USB
>> charger
>> and put a coaxial connector on and expect it to deliver more than 500mA.
>
> I should have mentioned that my phone is USB 3.0. It has that funky
> wide double connector. I'm not looking it up right now, but I'm pretty
> sure that 3.0 allows for a larger current at the get go.

The phone still won't necessarily suck more current than it actually
wants. Heat is a major factor.

I just can't imagine a 2A going into a cellphone !

geoff

[Trevor]

"Jay Ts" > wrote in message
...
> Yes. Many non-OEM power supplies from China are not even safe.

You got that right, a woman was killed here last week by a cheap USB
charger!

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"geoff" > wrote in message
...
> 6V will NOT be ok. The internals likely require 5V, and if original supply
> is 5V that is what it needs.
>
> You might get away with a (significantly, say 9V) charger if there was an
> internal regulator, but as original the original requires 5V it is
> relying on the external supply being that regulated 5V already.
>
> Oh, and 5V 2A PSU - go to almost any small appliance or electronic hobby
> store. Here at least ...

And you will find most of them are not regulated, so be careful if that is
what is needed.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>> "geoff" wrote in message
>> ...
>
>> > 6V will NOT be ok.
>
>> And you know that... how? Many Sony products come with power supplies
>> whose rated voltage is well-above the nominal battery voltage.
>
> If it needs a five volt supply it doesn't sound like it was designed with
> batteries in mind?

If it requires 2 Amps, then it's probably a safe bet it wasn't!

Trevor.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article >,
Jay Ts > wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jul 2014, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> >
> > If it needs a five volt supply it doesn't sound like it was designed
> > with batteries in mind?

> Five volts has been used since the 1970s as a positive supply for
> digital circuitry, and parts that require 3.3 volts or lower can get it
> from additional voltage regulators in the circuit. Since the unit in
> question is a USB audio adapter, it may need 5 volts for that. (Caveat:
> I have never designed USB interface circuitry. ;)


Quite. And of course it's now the standard for mobile phones too.

My point was that all the 5 volt supplies I've come across are regulated.
Ones which aren't - designed for use with older equipment which was also
powered by alkaline cells - were more usually marked as a multiple of
1.5v. Even when non regulated.

--
*Save the whale - I'll have it for my supper*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article >,
geoff > wrote:
> Many Sony products come with power supplies
> > whose rated voltage is well-above the nominal battery voltage.

> In which case there is likely an internal regulator in the device itself.

I can remember a walkman which had regulation for only some of the
electronics. The power amp used full battery volts. So as the voltage
dropped the available clean output became less - although it continued to
function ok otherwise.

--
*Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 7/1/2014 10:12 PM, Tobiah wrote:
> I should have mentioned that my phone is USB 3.0. It has that funky
> wide double connector. I'm not looking it up right now, but I'm pretty
> sure that 3.0 allows for a larger current at the get go.

I read somewhere that the USB 3.0 power spec allows for as much as 100
watts! Since USB 2, there's been two current limits for USB power. 500
mA is the limit for powering external devices, but there's up to 900 mA
available for charging only. If the device only needs to be charged, it
can say to the computer "Shoot the juice to me, Bruce" and get the
higher current for, presumably faster charging.



--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Jay Ts > wrote:
>
>Some years ago, I got some Dunlop effects pedal power adapters, and they
>were the traditional linear kind. But a year later I decided to get some
>more, and from 2 different vendors, even though they showed photos of the
>old style, I received smaller, lighter switching power supplies.
>
>I was not happy about that, but started using them.
>
>I had 3 of the switching supplies plugged in 24/7 for about 2.5 years, at
>which time they were all failing, adding audible high frequency noise to
>the sound of the pedals. I took one apart and found the cheapest circuit,
>parts and construction imaginable, and I threw them all in the trash.
>
>So I thought I should ask retailers of Dunlop products (Swee****er,
>Musician's Friend, and some of the usual names) to see if they had any of
>the linear style to sell me, and I could not find any. Most were still
>showing photos of the linear style. Swee****er updated their image after
>I pointed out the issue.
>
>I was wondering what was going on, and I'm no legal expert, but found
>some things in the federal act that banned 100 watt lightbulbs that
>applied to power adapters. I think maybe the linear style was effectively
>banned by that due to their lower efficiency.

Not that I know of.

And the thing is, linear supplies can be built to be reasonably efficient,
it's just that it costs more money to put more windings on the transformer
primary so that the no-load current drops to something reasonable, and people
out to make the cheapest possible product won't do that.

Again, I'd suggest a trip to Digi-Key for your Dunlop pedal wall-wart.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[William Sommerwerck]

"geoff" wrote in message
...
On 2/07/2014 9:32 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "geoff" wrote in message
> ...


>>> 6V will NOT be ok.

>> And you know that... how?

> I fix them.

In other words... ALL devices with a marked 5V input will malfunction or be
damaged if 6V is applied to them? ALL of them?

My point was not that the user doesn't have to pay attention to the voltage of
the power supply, but that the claim of universal unsuitability was specious.


>> Many Sony products come with power supplies whose
>> rated voltage is well-above the nominal battery voltage.

> In which case there is likely an internal regulator in the device itself.

Correct.

I don't know what M Audio's approach to power-supply design is, but if a
circuit needed //specific// voltages to work correctly, I would not depend on
the power supply to provide them. Regulators are cheap, and would represent a
small percentage of the cost of the product shown.

[William Sommerwerck]

"Tobiah" wrote in message ...

> I should have mentioned that my phone is USB 3.0. It has that funky
> wide double connector. I'm not looking it up right now, but I'm pretty
> sure that 3.0 allows for a larger current at the get go.

I believe USB 3.0 is spec'd at 750mA.

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>"geoff" wrote in message
>>>> 6V will NOT be ok.
>
>>> And you know that... how?
>
>> I fix them.
>
>In other words... ALL devices with a marked 5V input will malfunction or be
>damaged if 6V is applied to them? ALL of them?

Pretty much anything that has a 5V input is going to be applying the power
directly to logic gates. That's what is magic about that specific "5V" number.
If it said 6V or 12V, I might expect it to be a lot more relaxed but, 5V is
a magic value that almost certainly indicates logic supplies.

However.... the fact that this is a USB device (which was not apparent early
in the thread) pretty much changes everything, because USB has very specific
power requirements in terms of regulation and current limiting and later USB
interfaces require a data connection in order to negotiate the power.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Sean Conolly]

"geoff" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/07/2014 2:02 p.m., Jay Ts wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2014, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>>
>> If anyone knows more about that, I'm happy to hear from them.
>>
>
> It's called MEPS :
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_energy_performance_standard
>
> The idea is that that devices when turned off "soft" still draw power is
> transformer-based. SMPSs draw much much less in an idle state.
>
> However there are some transformer-based PSU that are design to comply
> with MEPS . Cost possibly becomes a factor there....

I think my HD recorder cable box is wasting more power than all of the
wall-warts combined.

Sean

[Sean Conolly]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "geoff" wrote in message
> ...
> On 2/07/2014 9:32 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> "geoff" wrote in message
>> ...
>
>
>>>> 6V will NOT be ok.
>
>>> And you know that... how?
>
>> I fix them.
>
> In other words... ALL devices with a marked 5V input will malfunction or
> be damaged if 6V is applied to them? ALL of them?
>
> My point was not that the user doesn't have to pay attention to the
> voltage of the power supply, but that the claim of universal unsuitability
> was specious.

.... but very prudent, especially if you're providing generic advice to a
customer - or someone on the internet - or you live in a country where tort
lawsuits make up a considerable chunk of the national economy...

Sean

[William Sommerwerck]

"Sean Conolly" wrote in message ...
"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...

>> My point was not that the user doesn't have to pay attention to the voltage
>> of the power supply, but that the claim of universal unsuitability was
>> specious.

> ... but very prudent, especially if you're providing generic advice to a
> customer - or someone on the internet - or you live in a country where
> tort lawsuits make up a considerable chunk of the national economy...

Mmmm... torts...

Which is why I suggested that the OP ask the manufacturer whether a 6V would
be acceptable.

[geoff]

On 3/07/2014 1:13 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "geoff" wrote in message
> ...
> On 2/07/2014 9:32 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> "geoff" wrote in message
>> ...
>
>
>>>> 6V will NOT be ok.
>
>>> And you know that... how?
>
>> I fix them.
>
> In other words... ALL devices with a marked 5V input will malfunction or
> be damaged if 6V is applied to them? ALL of them?

No. You wanna stick more volts into all your devices to see which ones
fail and which ones don't ? Or are you just happy to advise other
people to ?

Stick to selling music-centres.

geoff

[geoff]

On 3/07/2014 5:40 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "Sean Conolly" wrote in message ...
> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> My point was not that the user doesn't have to pay attention to the
>>> voltage of the power supply, but that the claim of universal
>>> unsuitability was specious.
>
>> ... but very prudent, especially if you're providing generic advice to
>> a customer - or someone on the internet - or you live in a country where
>> tort lawsuits make up a considerable chunk of the national economy...
>
> Mmmm... torts...
>
> Which is why I suggested that the OP ask the manufacturer whether a 6V
> would be acceptable.


Or much easy - just get the specified power supply !


geoff

[geoff]

On 3/07/2014 4:47 a.m., Sean Conolly wrote:
esign to comply
>> with MEPS . Cost possibly becomes a factor there....
>
> I think my HD recorder cable box is wasting more power than all of the
> wall-warts combined.
>
> Sean

That's OK - just replace one incandescent lightbulb with a CF or LED one
and you've probably more than compensated.


geoff

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "geoff" wrote in message
> ...
> On 2/07/2014 9:32 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> "geoff" wrote in message
>> ...
>
>
>>>> 6V will NOT be ok.
>
>>> And you know that... how?
>
>> I fix them.
>
> In other words... ALL devices with a marked 5V input will
> malfunction or be damaged if 6V is applied to them? ALL of them?

Read what he wrote.

[William Sommerwerck]

"None" wrote in message
m...
"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "geoff" wrote in message
> ...
> On 2/07/2014 9:32 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> "geoff" wrote in message
>> ...

>>>>> 6V will NOT be ok.

>>>> And you know that... how?

>>> I fix them.

>> In other words... ALL devices with a marked 5V input will malfunction or be
>> damaged if 6V is applied to them?
>> ALL of them?

> Read what he wrote.

You want to play games? Let's play games. I'm ready.

[Sean Conolly]

"geoff" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/07/2014 4:47 a.m., Sean Conolly wrote:
> esign to comply
>>> with MEPS . Cost possibly becomes a factor there....
>>
>> I think my HD recorder cable box is wasting more power than all of the
>> wall-warts combined.
>>
>> Sean
>
> That's OK - just replace one incandescent lightbulb with a CF or LED one
> and you've probably more than compensated.

I think they draw a bit more than that. I need to measure it and see.

Sean

[Trevor]

"Roy W. Rising" > wrote in message
...
> Jeff Henig > wrote:
>> "Trevor" > wrote:
>> > You got that right, a woman was killed here last week by a cheap USB
>> > charger!
>>
>> O.O
>>
>> Whoah!
>>
>> Never heard about that.
>
> The huge number of USB-related injuries and deaths, especially from
> battery
> explosions, is so much smaller than those from person-on-person crimes and
> vehicle crashes that the "Media" don't bother reporting them.

It was all over the news here in Australia, but I'm not surprised it doesn't
make the news in other countries.

Trevor.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article >,
Trevor > wrote:

> "Roy W. Rising" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Jeff Henig > wrote:
> >> "Trevor" > wrote:
> >> > You got that right, a woman was killed here last week by a cheap USB
> >> > charger!
> >>
> >> O.O
> >>
> >> Whoah!
> >>
> >> Never heard about that.
> >
> > The huge number of USB-related injuries and deaths, especially from
> > battery explosions, is so much smaller than those from
> > person-on-person crimes and vehicle crashes that the "Media" don't
> > bother reporting them.

> It was all over the news here in Australia, but I'm not surprised it
> doesn't make the news in other countries.

Given just how long RCDs etc have been around, I'm not surprised either.
It's hardly a surprise that any mains equipment can fail in a dangerous
way - for whatever reason.

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[geoff]

On 3/07/2014 8:51 p.m., Trevor wrote:
> "Roy W. Rising" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jeff Henig > wrote:
>>> "Trevor" > wrote:
>>>> You got that right, a woman was killed here last week by a cheap USB
>>>> charger!
>>>
>>> O.O
>>>
>>> Whoah!
>>>
>>> Never heard about that.
>>
>> The huge number of USB-related injuries and deaths, especially from
>> battery
>> explosions, is so much smaller than those from person-on-person crimes and
>> vehicle crashes that the "Media" don't bother reporting them.
>
> It was all over the news here in Australia, but I'm not surprised it doesn't
> make the news in other countries.
>
> Trevor.
>
>


Jeepers - I wonder how many women got killed by food-processors and
never made the news ?

geoff

[Tobiah]

You can all rest with a less burdened mind in
that I did find a suitable supply at Fry's near
my home. I didn't just go there first, because
I normally don't see universal adapters with
such high wattage.

I found just one that had the desired amps, at 2.5
with a stop at 5V, and one of the plugs fit snugly.
$19.

Tobiah

On 07/01/2014 09:21 AM, Tobiah wrote:
> I got an audio interface off of ebay that didn't come with a power supply.
> The manual says it's a 5V 2A DC output. I started looking for a replacement
> and didn't find much out there. I see hundreds on ebay, but my experience
> is that ebay is a very poor source for memory, batteries and power supplies.
> I recently got 3 usb chargers off ebay from two different vendors that were rated
> at 2.1 amps, but would only deliver 300-500ma. I know that there are many
> name brand counterfeits on ebay for batteries and power supplies. There were
> many auctions that called out my exact interface: "Power supply for M-Audio
> Fast Track Ultra". Then I'd zoom into the photo and see that the supply was
> rated at 500ma, or 4 volts, etc.
>
> So the question is, aside from finding an OEM, which would be cool, where
> can I go to get such a power supply where I can trust that the device ratings
> will be accurate.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Toby

[William Sommerwerck]

"Tobiah" wrote in message ...

> I found just one that had the desired amps, at 2.5, with
> a stop at 5V, and one of the plugs fit snugly. $19.


"Just askin'..."

What is the unloaded voltage?
Is it conventional or switching?

[Tobiah]

On 07/03/2014 09:57 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "Tobiah" wrote in message ...
>> I found just one that had the desired amps, at 2.5, with
>> a stop at 5V, and one of the plugs fit snugly. $19.
>
>
> "Just askin'..."
>
> What is the unloaded voltage?
> Is it conventional or switching?

I can measure it when I get home. I'm not sure
how to tell the difference between the two types.

This is the one I got:

http://www.frys.com/product/5249157#detailed

They don't say very much about it, but one thing
I noticed is that it's pretty small and pretty light.
In the past, any time I've had a 2A power supply it's
been large and heavy, particularly if it was a 12V.

This one sits nicely on the wall. The others I've
seen (from decades ago I suppose) had two cords so
that the unit could sit on the ground.

Tobiah

[Jay Ts[_4_]]

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Jay Ts > wrote:
>>
>>I was wondering what was going on, and I'm no legal expert, but found
>>some things in the federal act that banned 100 watt lightbulbs that
>>applied to power adapters. I think maybe the linear style was
>>effectively banned by that due to their lower efficiency.
>
> Not that I know of.

I searched for it again, and found it. It's called the Energy
Independence and Security Act of 2007:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Independence_and_Security_Act_of_2007

and this seems official:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-110publ140/html/PLAW-110publ140.htm

The part about power adapters is in section 301.

Then I tried to find a linear power adapter at Mouser, and found this:

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/410/WDU9-300-224465.pdf

The datasheet contains this:

"U.S. DOE Compliance per Sec. 301 of EISA 2007: As of July 1, 2008, this
product is intended for use as follows:
1. Requires Federal Food and Drug Administration listing and approval
as a medical device in accordance with section 513 of the Federal
Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 360c)
2. Powers the charger of a detachable battery pack or charges the
battery of a product that is fully or primarily motor operated.
3. As a service part or a spare part for an end-use product manufactured
before July 1, 2008, that constitutes the primary load of this power
supply."

The model is listed at Mouser as "NRND" = Not Recommended for New Designs.

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
>
> You want to play games? Let's play games. I'm ready.

I don't swing that way, Willie. You'll have to play "Willie's always
right" by yourself.

[geoff]

On 4/07/2014 6:38 a.m., Tobiah wrote:
> On 07/03/2014 09:57 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> "Tobiah" wrote in message ...
>>> I found just one that had the desired amps, at 2.5, with
>>> a stop at 5V, and one of the plugs fit snugly. $19.
>>
>>
>> "Just askin'..."
>>
>> What is the unloaded voltage?
>> Is it conventional or switching?
>
> I can measure it when I get home. I'm not sure
> how to tell the difference between the two types.
>
> This is the one I got:
>
> http://www.frys.com/product/5249157#detailed
>
> They don't say very much about it, but one thing
> I noticed is that it's pretty small and pretty light.
> In the past, any time I've had a 2A power supply it's
> been large and heavy, particularly if it was a 12V.
>
> This one sits nicely on the wall. The others I've
> seen (from decades ago I suppose) had two cords so
> that the unit could sit on the ground.

From the current-rating and the size it would have to be a SMPS.

If you have a meter, suggest measure the output voltage, for curiosity
more than anything.

And to check out Some Willy's theory, why not crank it up a few volts
and see if you device blows up or not ?!!!

geoff

[Tobiah]

> If you have a meter, suggest measure the output voltage, for curiosity more than anything.
>
> And to check out Some Willy's theory, why not crank it up a few volts and see if you device blows up or not ?!!!

It blew up a 8.4. I'm so glad I know that now!

[William Sommerwerck]

"None" wrote in message
...

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...

>> You want to play games? Let's play games. I'm ready.

> I don't swing that way, Willie. You'll have to play "Willie's
> always right" by yourself.

Find a cure for your functional illiteracy, and then perhaps we can have a
discussion.

[William Sommerwerck]

"geoff" wrote in message
...

> And to check out Some Willy's theory, why not crank it up
> a few volts and see if you device blows up or not ?!!!

I hope that's supposed to be a joke, because it sure isn't an intelligent
remark.

[Tobiah]

On 7/3/2014 9:57 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "Tobiah" wrote in message ...
>> I found just one that had the desired amps, at 2.5, with
>> a stop at 5V, and one of the plugs fit snugly. $19.
>
>
> "Just askin'..."
>
> What is the unloaded voltage?

I stuck a regular voltmeter on it
and got 5.2V.

Toby




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >, Tobiah > wrote:
>
>They don't say very much about it, but one thing
>I noticed is that it's pretty small and pretty light.

This is because it's a switcher.

>In the past, any time I've had a 2A power supply it's
>been large and heavy, particularly if it was a 12V.

This is because those were linear supplies which are quieter and probably
more reliable than switchers.

>This one sits nicely on the wall. The others I've
>seen (from decades ago I suppose) had two cords so
>that the unit could sit on the ground.

Those are called "line lumps" instead of wall warts.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "None" wrote in message
> ...
>
> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> You want to play games? Let's play games. I'm ready.
>
>> I don't swing that way, Willie. You'll have to play "Willie's
>> always right" by yourself.
>
> Find a cure for your functional illiteracy, and then perhaps we can
> have a discussion.

Find a cure for your fantasy that you're always right, and you'll
still be a pompous blowhard.

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "geoff" wrote in message
> ...
>
>> And to check out Some Willy's theory, why not crank it up
>> a few volts and see if you device blows up or not ?!!!
>
> I hope that's supposed to be a joke, because it sure isn't an
> intelligent remark.

Showing your functional illiteracy? Read what he wrote.

[William Sommerwerck]

"None" wrote in message
m...
"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "geoff" wrote in message
> ...

>>> And to check out Some Willy's theory, why not crank it up
>>> a few volts and see if you device blows up or not ?!!!

>> I hope that's supposed to be a joke, because it sure isn't an intelligent
>> remark.

> Showing your functional illiteracy? Read what he wrote.

He said that a 6V supply would be unsuitable for any device with a power jack
marked 5V. He might not have meant that, but I can't read his mind. That's
what he said.

Would you care to ask Harold Bloom for his opinion? (I thought not.)

[William Sommerwerck]

"Tobiah" wrote in message ...
On 7/3/2014 9:57 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "Tobiah" wrote in message ...

>> I found just one that had the desired amps, at 2.5, with
>> a stop at 5V, and one of the plugs fit snugly. $19.

>> "Just askin'..."
>> What is the unloaded voltage?

> I stuck a regular voltmeter on it and got 5.2V.

Oh, my God! It's 4% high! Your equipment will be destroyed! Blown to
smithereens!

Head for the hills, men!

(Does my sarcasm, directed at someones elses, come through? I wouldn't want
any misunderstanding.)

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "None" wrote in message
> m...
> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "geoff" wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>>> And to check out Some Willy's theory, why not crank it up
>>>> a few volts and see if you device blows up or not ?!!!
>
>>> I hope that's supposed to be a joke, because it sure isn't an
>>> intelligent remark.
>
>> Showing your functional illiteracy? Read what he wrote.
>
> He said that a 6V supply would be unsuitable for any device with a
> power jack marked 5V. He might not have meant that, but I can't read
> his mind.

Apparently, you can't read the words he posted either

> That's what he said.

Read what he wrote.

> Would you care to ask Harold Bloom for his opinion? (I thought not.)

[geoff]

On 4/07/2014 10:53 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "geoff" wrote in message
> ...
>
>> And to check out Some Willy's theory, why not crank it up
>> a few volts and see if you device blows up or not ?!!!
>
> I hope that's supposed to be a joke, because it sure isn't an
> intelligent remark.


Snap.

geoff

[geoff]

On 4/07/2014 12:00 p.m., Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >, Tobiah > wrote:
>>
>> They don't say very much about it, but one thing
>> I noticed is that it's pretty small and pretty light.
>
> This is because it's a switcher.
>
>> In the past, any time I've had a 2A power supply it's
>> been large and heavy, particularly if it was a 12V.
>
> This is because those were linear supplies which are quieter and probably
> more reliable than switchers.

There seems to be a large range in quality (lack=noise) of SMPS outputs.

geoff

[geoff]

On 4/07/2014 2:00 p.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "Tobiah" wrote in message ...
> On 7/3/2014 9:57 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> "Tobiah" wrote in message ...
>
>>> I found just one that had the desired amps, at 2.5, with
>>> a stop at 5V, and one of the plugs fit snugly. $19.
>
>>> "Just askin'..."
>>> What is the unloaded voltage?
>
>> I stuck a regular voltmeter on it and got 5.2V.
>
> Oh, my God! It's 4% high! Your equipment will be destroyed! Blown to
> smithereens!
>
> Head for the hills, men!
>
> (Does my sarcasm, directed at someones elses, come through? I wouldn't
> want any misunderstanding.)


I understand "someones elses" . I see what you are driving at with your
functional illiteracy comments.

geoff

[Trevor]

"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Trevor > wrote:
>> "Roy W. Rising" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Jeff Henig > wrote:
>> >> "Trevor" > wrote:
>> >> > You got that right, a woman was killed here last week by a cheap USB
>> >> > charger!
>> >>
>> >> O.O
>> >>
>> >> Whoah!
>> >>
>> >> Never heard about that.
>> >
>> > The huge number of USB-related injuries and deaths, especially from
>> > battery explosions, is so much smaller than those from
>> > person-on-person crimes and vehicle crashes that the "Media" don't
>> > bother reporting them.
>
>> It was all over the news here in Australia, but I'm not surprised it
>> doesn't make the news in other countries.
>
> Given just how long RCDs etc have been around, I'm not surprised either.

RCD's are compulsory in new homes here, but many older homes, including
mine, don't have them.


> It's hardly a surprise that any mains equipment can fail in a dangerous
> way - for whatever reason.

Devices that meet the required safety standards here will fail safe. The
Chinese device that didn't meet the standard has been recalled as expected
I hear GM is the USA is currently experiencing *many* recalls following a
number of deaths, (just as Toyota did a while ago) so it's not confined to
the Chinese electronics industry either.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"geoff" > wrote in message
...
> Jeepers - I wonder how many women got killed by food-processors and never
> made the news ?

I bet they would make the news here if they did. Our press loves that sort
of thing. We even get coverage of every shooting massacre you have in the
USA, and that's nearly every other week!

Trevor.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article >,
Trevor > wrote:
> > Given just how long RCDs etc have been around, I'm not surprised
> > either.

> RCD's are compulsory in new homes here, but many older homes, including
> mine, don't have them.

Makes sense to upgrade, then.

--
*If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple of payments *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[William Sommerwerck]

"None" wrote in message
m...
"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...

> Apparently, you can't read the words he posted, either.

>> That's what he said.

> Read what he wrote.

There can be a gap between the literal written word, and the implied meaning.
It goes under the name of "connotation".

What blockhead you are. I can imagine you taking a college-level literature
course, and the instructor banging his or her head against the chalkboard.

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "None" wrote in message
> m...
> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Apparently, you can't read the words he posted, either.
>
>>> That's what he said.
>
>> Read what he wrote.
>
> There can be a gap between the literal written word, and the implied
> meaning. It goes under the name of "connotation".

But when someone derives a connotation from your writing, you throw a
hissy little tantrum and tell them to read what you wrote. You don't
seem to understand that what you infer is very frequently not actually
implied by the writer. Your hallucination that you're always right
overwhelms your ability to reason, so you start blubbering and
pontificating. As entertainment, it's on a par with a bad sitcom. Get
a laugh track, li'l buddy.

> What blockhead you are. I can imagine you taking a college-level
> literature course, and the instructor banging his or her head
> against the chalkboard.

You have a very strange fantasy life. Stop fantasizing about me, Li'l
Willie Wiener******.

[William Sommerwerck]

"None" wrote in message
m...
"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...

>> There can be a gap between the literal written word, and the
>> implied meaning. It goes under the name of "connotation".

> But when someone derives a connotation from your writing, you
> throw a hissy little tantrum and tell them to read what you wrote.
> You don't seem to understand that what you infer is very frequently
> not actually implied by the writer.

What /you/ don't understand is that what the writer /meant/ to say doesn't
matter. It's what's actually on the page. And that's what we have here -- a
blanket statement about the universal unsuitability of 6V power supplies for
all 5V devices, which anyone who's had a reasonable amount of electronics
experience knows isn't true.

I am (horrors!) sometimes guilty of sloppy writing. But when I say "read what
I wrote", it's because people are carelessly or deliberately misreading it --
not because I didn't consciously say what I meant.


> Your hallucination that you're always right overwhelms your ability
> to reason, so you start blubbering and pontificating. As entertainment,
> it's on a par with a bad sitcom. Get a laugh track, li'l buddy.

We keep coming back to this, your claim that I said I was always right. I
never said any such thing, and (amazingly) you've correctly quoted me:

"I'm (almost) always right."

averring that the "almost" doesn't count. Here's a scene with your
fourth-grade English teacher:

"Captain Corcoran sings that he's "hardly ever sick at sea". What does he
mean, class? That...
He's never sick.
He's on occasion sick.
He's always sick. ?"
None's hand goes up, flapping as his body shakes.
The teacher sighs. "Yes, St Vitus?"
"He means he's always sick."
"How do you figure that?"
"Well, he says he's sick at sea."
"What about the 'hardly ever'?"
"Doesn't matter. He said 'sick at sea'."
"So you can just ignore the 'hardly ever'?"
"Of course."

Fifty years ago, I got 800+ on my math SAT, and 765 (I think) on English. *
Throughout college I got As in my English courses. (And I'm an EE.) Don't tell
me I don't understand words, or their meanings, or how those meanings interact
to convey ideas (intentionally or unintentionally, literal or implied).

And as for fantasies... Yours about my not having a job because I'm a poor
writer, and not having any friends (for unstated reasons) -- from what
Wonderland do they descend from?

Everyone has problems. One of mine is the urge to respond to idiots. I
shouldn't, but I figure if I don't, I've implicitly given in to their attacks.
Perhaps some day one of my remarks will hit home, and None will seek out the
professional treatment he needs -- to find out why he has nothing better to do
than to pointlessly spew ad hominem attacks on people he doesn't know.

* The reason for such a "low" English score appears to have been those
"analogy" questions. They're the only questions, on any type of test I've ever
taken, that gave me trouble. I often found myself trying to distinguish
between two answers that seemed only subtly different from each other. As far
as I know, the analogy questions were dropped from the SAT several years ago.
But I had no trouble finding this page:

http://www.onlinetestprep.com/engine/analogy.asp

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 13:16:27 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Trevor > wrote:
>> > Given just how long RCDs etc have been around, I'm not surprised
>> > either.
>
>> RCD's are compulsory in new homes here, but many older homes, including
>> mine, don't have them.
>
>Makes sense to upgrade, then.

Problem is that one safety reg is now fighting another. Most devices
that use a swicthed-mode power supply contain Y1 capacitors to deal
with conducted interference. Every such device plugged into the mains
increases the unbalanced current caused by these caps to the point
where plugging a final one in can trip an RCD.

The only real answer is to either develop smart RCDs that only respond
to in-phase currents or increase the trip threshold. These things have
to be cheap, so it will be the latter.

d

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> What /you/ don't understand is that what the writer /meant/ to say
> doesn't matter. It's what's actually on the page.

Your inferences and your own opinions about connotations are not on
the page.

> And that's what we have here -- a blanket statement about the
> universal unsuitability of 6V power supplies for all 5V devices,
> which anyone who's had a reasonable amount of electronics experience
> knows isn't true.

Your inference about universality is your own problem

> I am (horrors!) sometimes guilty of sloppy writing. But when I say
> "read what I wrote", it's because people are carelessly or
> deliberately misreading it -- not because I didn't consciously say
> what I meant.

Yeah, your sloppy writing is everyone else's fault, despite what you
actually put on the page. Did you even read what you wrote? "It's
what's actually on the page." Read what you wrote. Of course, what you
wrote may be very wrong, but you aren't honest enough to deal with
that obvious fact.


>> Your hallucination that you're always right overwhelms your ability
>> to reason, so you start blubbering and pontificating. As
>> entertainment,
>> it's on a par with a bad sitcom. Get a laugh track, li'l buddy.
>
> We keep coming back to this, your claim that I said I was always
> right. I never said any such thing, and (amazingly) you've correctly
> quoted me:
>
> "I'm (almost) always right."
>
> averring that the "almost" doesn't count.

Read what you wrote:

"Sorry, but I am always always right."

Are you in denial? And are you denying that you set off the "almost"
in parentheses, or slashes (poor writing, that), to distance it from
yourself and your bloated claim as if the "almost" is of less
important than the rest of the claim? Read what you wrote: "Sorry, but
I am always always right."

> Here's a scene with your fourth-grade English teacher:

No, it's scene from some fantasy world in which you're hiding.

> "Captain Corcoran sings that he's "hardly ever sick at sea".
>> ... <flush li'l Willie's fantasy from his school days>
> "Of course."

What that elaborate fantasy has to do with reality is anybody's guess,
but it's based more on your own fertile imagination than any reality.
It's pretty easy to tell what fertilizes your imagination, including
big piles of bovine manure.

> Fifty years ago, I got 800+ on my math SAT, and 765 (I think) on
> English. *

Well, aren't you impressed with yourself!

> Throughout college I got As in my English courses. (And I'm an EE.)
> Don't tell me I don't understand words, or their meanings, or how
> those meanings interact to convey ideas (intentionally or
> unintentionally, literal or implied).

I'll tell you whatever I like, Willie. You have no authority here.
Bragging about how smart you used to be doesn't give you any power
over me, and it doesn't make you always right.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article >,
Don Pearce > wrote:
> >Makes sense to upgrade, then.

> Problem is that one safety reg is now fighting another. Most devices
> that use a swicthed-mode power supply contain Y1 capacitors to deal
> with conducted interference. Every such device plugged into the mains
> increases the unbalanced current caused by these caps to the point
> where plugging a final one in can trip an RCD.

I've got an awful lot of them here, without problems. Although I do have
RCBOs. Which would tend to minimise the problem over a whole house RCD.

> The only real answer is to either develop smart RCDs that only respond
> to in-phase currents or increase the trip threshold. These things have
> to be cheap, so it will be the latter.

If you increase the trip threshold it defeats the object?

--
*Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 17:35:49 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Don Pearce > wrote:
>> >Makes sense to upgrade, then.
>
>> Problem is that one safety reg is now fighting another. Most devices
>> that use a swicthed-mode power supply contain Y1 capacitors to deal
>> with conducted interference. Every such device plugged into the mains
>> increases the unbalanced current caused by these caps to the point
>> where plugging a final one in can trip an RCD.
>
>I've got an awful lot of them here, without problems. Although I do have
>RCBOs. Which would tend to minimise the problem over a whole house RCD.
>
>> The only real answer is to either develop smart RCDs that only respond
>> to in-phase currents or increase the trip threshold. These things have
>> to be cheap, so it will be the latter.
>
>If you increase the trip threshold it defeats the object?

Yes, the more segmented the mains the better. And defeating the object
is exactly what is happening.

d

[geoff]

On 5/07/2014 2:55 a.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "None" wrote in message
> m...
> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> There can be a gap between the literal written word, and the
>>> implied meaning. It goes under the name of "connotation".
>
>> But when someone derives a connotation from your writing, you
>> throw a hissy little tantrum and tell them to read what you wrote.
>> You don't seem to understand that what you infer is very frequently
>> not actually implied by the writer.
>
> What /you/ don't understand is that what the writer /meant/ to say
> doesn't matter. It's what's actually on the page. And that's what we
> have here -- a blanket statement about the universal unsuitability of 6V
> power supplies for all 5V devices, which anyone who's had a reasonable
> amount of electronics experience knows isn't true.
>
> I am (horrors!) sometimes guilty of sloppy writing. But when I say "read
> what I wrote", it's because people are carelessly or deliberately
> misreading it -- not because I didn't consciously say what I meant.
>
>
>> Your hallucination that you're always right overwhelms your ability
>> to reason, so you start blubbering and pontificating. As entertainment,
>> it's on a par with a bad sitcom. Get a laugh track, li'l buddy.
>
> We keep coming back to this, your claim that I said I was always right.
> I never said any such thing, and (amazingly) you've correctly quoted me:
>
> "I'm (almost) always right."
>
> averring that the "almost" doesn't count. Here's a scene with your
> fourth-grade English teacher:
>
> "Captain Corcoran sings that he's "hardly ever sick at sea". What does
> he mean, class? That...
> He's never sick.
> He's on occasion sick.
> He's always sick. ?"
> None's hand goes up, flapping as his body shakes.
> The teacher sighs. "Yes, St Vitus?"
> "He means he's always sick."
> "How do you figure that?"
> "Well, he says he's sick at sea."
> "What about the 'hardly ever'?"
> "Doesn't matter. He said 'sick at sea'."
> "So you can just ignore the 'hardly ever'?"
> "Of course."
>
> Fifty years ago, I got 800+ on my math SAT, and 765 (I think) on
> English. * Throughout college I got As in my English courses. (And I'm
> an EE.) Don't tell me I don't understand words, or their meanings, or
> how those meanings interact to convey ideas (intentionally or
> unintentionally, literal or implied).
>
> And as for fantasies... Yours about my not having a job because I'm a
> poor writer, and not having any friends (for unstated reasons) -- from
> what Wonderland do they descend from?
>
> Everyone has problems. One of mine is the urge to respond to idiots. I
> shouldn't, but I figure if I don't, I've implicitly given in to their
> attacks. Perhaps some day one of my remarks will hit home, and None will
> seek out the professional treatment he needs -- to find out why he has
> nothing better to do than to pointlessly spew ad hominem attacks on
> people he doesn't know.
>
> * The reason for such a "low" English score appears to have been those
> "analogy" questions. They're the only questions, on any type of test
> I've ever taken, that gave me trouble. I often found myself trying to
> distinguish between two answers that seemed only subtly different from
> each other. As far as I know, the analogy questions were dropped from
> the SAT several years ago. But I had no trouble finding this page:
>
> http://www.onlinetestprep.com/engine/analogy.asp
>


Yep, without a doubt, any voltage PSU is fine into a device that
specifies 5V. Probably any polarity too.

geoff

[Sean Conolly]

"Trevor" > wrote in message
...
>
> "geoff" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jeepers - I wonder how many women got killed by food-processors and never
>> made the news ?
>
> I bet they would make the news here if they did. Our press loves that sort
> of thing. We even get coverage of every shooting massacre you have in the
> USA, and that's nearly every other week!

I got curious and did a little searching, and all I could find were many
stories on the same single incident. Tragic though it was, I'm not sure it's
a rampant problem.

Sean

[William Sommerwerck]

"None" wrote in message ...

> "I'm always always right."

Obviously a mis-type. (Everybody does these.) Mea culpa. I apologize /if/
that's what I wrote.


> I'll tell you whatever I like, Willie.

Especially if it's a lie.

> You have no authority here.

And your authority comes from...?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article >,
Sean Conolly > wrote:
> "Trevor" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "geoff" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Jeepers - I wonder how many women got killed by food-processors and
> >> never made the news ?
> >
> > I bet they would make the news here if they did. Our press loves that
> > sort of thing. We even get coverage of every shooting massacre you
> > have in the USA, and that's nearly every other week!

> I got curious and did a little searching, and all I could find were many
> stories on the same single incident. Tragic though it was, I'm not sure
> it's a rampant problem.

Given the number of these things in use it would be more surprising if
such an incident hadn't happened.

--
*My wife and I had words. But I didn't get to use mine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "None" wrote in message
> ...
>
>> "I'm always always right."
>
> Obviously a mis-type. (Everybody does these.) Mea culpa. I apologize
> /if/ that's what I wrote.

"What /you/ don't understand is that what the writer /meant/ to say
doesn't
matter. It's what's actually on the page."

"I'm always always right."

"I never said any such thing ...'

> And your authority comes from...?

What authority? I don't need authority. I don't need to imagine that I
know what your motives are. I don't need to infer connotations. I
don't need to change the subject to strange fantasies about fourth
grade teachers. I don't need to reference everything to a science
fiction world. All I have to do is quote your own words back to you,
and you start ranting about how it's supposedly a lie.

Read what you wrote.

[geoff]

On 5/07/2014 4:55 p.m., Sean Conolly wrote:
> "Trevor" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "geoff" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Jeepers - I wonder how many women got killed by food-processors and never
>>> made the news ?
>>
>> I bet they would make the news here if they did. Our press loves that sort
>> of thing. We even get coverage of every shooting massacre you have in the
>> USA, and that's nearly every other week!
>
> I got curious and did a little searching, and all I could find were many
> stories on the same single incident. Tragic though it was, I'm not sure it's
> a rampant problem.

About the same as USB chargers then ....

geoff

[geoff]

On 5/07/2014 8:38 p.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "None" wrote in message
> ...
>
>> "I'm always always right."
>
> Obviously a mis-type. (Everybody does these.) Mea culpa. I apologize
> /if/ that's what I wrote.

More likely a simple Freudian slip.

geoff

[Trevor]

"Sean Conolly" > wrote in message
...
> I got curious and did a little searching, and all I could find were many
> stories on the same single incident. Tragic though it was, I'm not sure
> it's a rampant problem.

Well I never said it was an everyday occurance, but that's little
consolation for the woman involved!

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
>> I got curious and did a little searching, and all I could find were many
>> stories on the same single incident. Tragic though it was, I'm not sure
>> it's a rampant problem.
>
> Given the number of these things in use it would be more surprising if
> such an incident hadn't happened.

Given that the device didn't meet the regulated safety requirements, you are
right. No such instances have occurred for devices that did meet the
mandatory safety requirements for mains powered devices however. Which is
pretty good IMO.

Trevor.

[William Sommerwerck]

"geoff" wrote in message
...
On 5/07/2014 8:38 p.m., William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "None" wrote in message
> ...

>>> "I'm always always right."

>> Obviously a mis-type. (Everybody does these.) Mea culpa.
>> I apologize /if/ that's what I wrote.

> More likely a simple Freudian slip.

At least you have a sense of humor about it.

[William Sommerwerck]

There's just no pleasing some people.

None has this warped fantasy that I claimed to be always right. He produced
evidence of this, an excerpt from an e-mail I supposedly wrote:

"I'm always always right."

If this is a real quote (and it probably is), it must be a mistyping, because
there's no comma after the first always. (I'm notorious for excess
punctuation.) Regardless, it's the sort of mistake we see in UseNet postings,
and I and others make all the time.

He has proof that I'm not always right, and am aware of it. What more does he
want? Public seppuku? Well, I ain't Butterfly.

On a more serious note...

None's treatment of me and others shows, not necessarily mental illness, but
bad judgment and a lack of self control (things I'm occasionally guilty of). *
To that might be added extreme annoyance that human beings don't behave the
way he thinks they ought to. (I have that problem, too.) I urge him to find
someone to discuss it with.

* My "justification" is being provoked by people like None.

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> There's just no pleasing some people.
>
> None has this warped fantasy that I claimed to be always right. He
> produced evidence of this, an excerpt from an e-mail I supposedly
> wrote:

I never said anything about any email. But keep trying to change the
facts. Speaking of warped fantasy, have you fabricated any stories
about fourth-grade teachers, or imagined yourself on some magical
spaceship today?

>
> "I'm always always right."

You wrote it, and publicly posted it. And now you're furiously
backpedaling, trying to pretend that there' some question about
whether you actually wrote it.

> If this is a real quote (and it probably is), it must be a
> mistyping, because there's no comma after the first always. (I'm
> notorious for excess punctuation.) Regardless, it's the sort of
> mistake we see in UseNet postings, and I and others make all the
> time.

You're still not willing to live up to the standard that you like to
spew about. That what's written on the page is what really matters.
And you're still trying to raise uncertainty about what it is that you
wrote, lacking the balls to simply own up to your own hypocrisy. You
claim that you know the meaning and connotation behind others'
writing, but you can't face up to the obvious clear statements that
you write. You're a sloppy writer, but you pretend otherwise. You
invent interpretations not evidenced by others' writing, claiming that
you, the self-proclaimed genius, know it all.

> He has proof that I'm not always right, and am aware of it. What
> more does he want? Public seppuku? Well, I ain't Butterfly.

Poor baby. It would help your case if you'd stop blubbering and
blustering about being always right, even when it's qualified with
"almost" which you try to minimize with parentheses. You're frequently
wrong, but you keep pretending that it's some kind of rare event.

> On a more serious note...

Oooooh! Serious!

> None's treatment of me and others shows, not necessarily mental
> illness, but bad judgment and a lack of self control (things I'm
> occasionally guilty of). * To that might be added extreme annoyance
> that human beings don't behave the way he thinks they ought to. (I
> have that problem, too.) I urge him to find someone to discuss it
> with.

Are you really lacking in self-awareness to the extent that you can't
see how appropriate it is to address those concerns back on yourself?
Yeah, you probably are. You're too busy pretending that you're so much
better than everyone else.

> * My "justification" is being provoked by people like None.

Sure. It's all about how you're justified in being an arrogant putz,
and refusing to admit your substantial fallibility.

[William Sommerwerck]

None has serious problems. I hope anyone who knows him can help him find
someone to talk to.

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> None has serious problems. I hope anyone who knows him can help him
> find someone to talk to.

It obviously gets under your skin when I quote your own words at you,
and suggest that they might be held to the same standards that you
insist on applying to others. Although you occasionally give lip
service to the idea that you may make mistakes, it's clear that you
are very disturbed by the notion that it's a commonplace occurrence,
and you are loath to actually admit it in real life. You just can't
stand seeing your own utterances being subject to the same standards
about which you pontificate. When I act as a caricature of you, you
become extremely upset. You should hold your own bloviating up to the
mirror of reality more often. You'd see how pompous and unpleasant you
can be. But since you refuse to look in the mirror, I'll continue to
mirror your own words at you. Your own writing disturbs you very much,
but you should really get used to it.

"I am always always right."
"I never said any such thing ..."
"It's what's actually on the page."
"Read what I wrote."

Despite the denials and phony outrage, those are your own words,
from your own posts, Willy.

You just can't stand to see your own words next to each other like
that, because of what it says about your pretenses about your own
superiority.

Read what you wrote, Willy. It's hilarious. If you must be a
self-aggrandizing hypocrite with a bloated opinion of your superiority
and self-worth, you could at least grow a sense of humor about it.
You're actually pretty entertaining, in a village-idiot sort of way.

[William Sommerwerck]

"None" wrote in message
m...
"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...

> None has serious problems. I hope anyone who knows him can
> help him find someone to talk to.

<stupid response snipped>

You are the guilty party. You provoked this. And I am not the only victim.

Instead of simply politely criticizing, you go for the throat. You think that
the best way to spend your time is to attack people you don't like. It isn't.

I used to think you were just a jerk. It's become obvious you're mentally
disturbed. You need help. Get it.

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "None" wrote in message
> m...
> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> None has serious problems. I hope anyone who knows him can
>> help him find someone to talk to.
>
> <stupid response snipped>

Your own words. That's what you call stupid? Maybe there's hope for
you! But no, probably not.

> You are the guilty party. You provoked this. And I am not the only
> victim.

Guilty of quoting your own words. That's what really gets your goat,
isn't it? You can't face your own contradictions.

You berate anyone who has the temerity to disagree with your own
self-appointed "genius". Especially when they take the upper hand in a
disagreement by showing understanding that you lack, showing your
failure to write clearly, call you out for clear errors in matters of
demonstrable fact, or, horror of horrors, showing where you try to
deny your own statements rather than simply admit errors. Some victim!

> Instead of simply politely criticizing,

You've shown no capability for polite criticism. Just condescension.

you go for the throat. You think that
> the best way to spend your time is to attack people you don't like.
> It isn't.

That's what you do, Willie. I show you your own reflection, and it
enrages you.

> I used to think you were just a jerk. It's become obvious you're
> mentally disturbed. You need help. Get it.

A dilettante psychologist, to add to the list of things you think you
know better than everyone else.

Read what you wrote. If you dare. Many of your accusations are telling
descriptions of your own words. Read what you wrote, if you can muster
up the self-awareness ... which seems unlikely.

[None]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote:

> You want to play games? Let's play games. I'm ready.

Apparently not.
....

> "I'm always always right."
>
> If this is a real quote (and it probably is), it must be a
> mistyping, because there's no comma after the first always. (I'm
> notorious for excess punctuation.) Regardless, it's the sort of
> mistake we see in UseNet postings, and I and others make all the
> time.

"What /you/ don't understand is that what the writer /meant/ to say
doesn't
matter. It's what's actually on the page." WS