the cymatic thingie

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Hi,

is the cymatic thingie usable for audio as well as constituting a very
good design idea?

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Scott Dorsey]

Peter Larsen > wrote:
>
>is the cymatic thingie usable for audio as well as constituting a very
>good design idea?

The little handheld 16-track? I found it interesting... record quality was
entirely acceptable and the lack of metering and fine gain controls was less
of an issue than I'd expected. But the inability to monitor and to make
rough mixes in the box was frustrating. I really had no idea what was going
to disk until I got the disk out and into a DAW.

I think it's a good idea but it needs some software changes. But if you
like the idea, you might like the JoeCo.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 01-06-2014 13:01, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Peter Larsen > wrote:

>> is the cymatic thingie usable for audio as well as constituting a very
>> good design idea?

> The little handheld 16-track? I found it interesting... record quality was
> entirely acceptable and the lack of metering and fine gain controls was less
> of an issue than I'd expected.

Thank you, it moved a couple of steps closer to the top of the shopping
list, it should be a good match for a Soundcraft EPM.

> But the inability to monitor and to make
> rough mixes in the box was frustrating. I really had no idea what was going
> to disk until I got the disk out and into a DAW.

So it is portable, but doesn't have all that I love about the not quite
as portable HD24 and it gets required to record the monitor mix
separately for instant playback if required. A nice thing to do anyway
in case something goes awry.

> I think it's a good idea but it needs some software changes. But if you
> like the idea, you might like the JoeCo.

Thomann sells the Cymatic for Euro 300 or so. The applicable minimum
JoeCo is USD 2000. I can live with some shortcomings at that price
difference, mostly I only need 4 tracks anyway when on location.

> --scott

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[John Corbett]

On 06/05/2014 08:16 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:
> On 01-06-2014 13:01, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> Peter Larsen > wrote:
>
>>> is the cymatic thingie usable for audio as well as constituting a very
>>> good design idea?
>
>> The little handheld 16-track? I found it interesting... record
>> quality was
>> entirely acceptable and the lack of metering and fine gain controls
>> was less
>> of an issue than I'd expected.
>
> Thank you, it moved a couple of steps closer to the top of the shopping
> list, it should be a good match for a Soundcraft EPM.
>
>> But the inability to monitor and to make
>> rough mixes in the box was frustrating. I really had no idea what was
>> going
>> to disk until I got the disk out and into a DAW.
>
> So it is portable, but doesn't have all that I love about the not quite
> as portable HD24 and it gets required to record the monitor mix
> separately for instant playback if required. A nice thing to do anyway
> in case something goes awry.
>
>> I think it's a good idea but it needs some software changes. But if you
>> like the idea, you might like the JoeCo.
>
> Thomann sells the Cymatic for Euro 300 or so. The applicable minimum
> JoeCo is USD 2000. I can live with some shortcomings at that price
> difference, mostly I only need 4 tracks anyway when on location.
>
>> --scott
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen
>
>

Other options include the Allen & Heath ICE-16 and the Zoom R16. I
believe the ICE-16 uses the same basic chipset as the Cymatic device,
and is priced between the Cymatic and JoeCo devices.

--JC

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 6/5/2014 9:16 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:

> Thank you, it moved a couple of steps closer to the top of the shopping
> list, it should be a good match for a Soundcraft EPM.

There's a review of it on my web page.

> So it is portable, but doesn't have all that I love about the not quite
> as portable HD24 and it gets required to record the monitor mix
> separately for instant playback if required. A nice thing to do anyway
> in case something goes awry.

For assurance that things won't go awry, I record the stereo mix from
the mixer on my portable 2-track recorder. That way you're sure to have
both, or worst case you'll lose only one. You could jigger up a cable to
connect a pair of tracks of the LR-16 to the mixer's stereo (usually
labeled "TAPE") output if you only need to record 14 inputs.

Cymatic has a new one coming out that offers 24 tracks of recording and
playback. It was supposed to be available 2nd quarter of 2014. I should
check with them to see when it's actually coming out. Although it
doesn't have an extra 2 tracks to record its monitor mix (at least not
according to the preliminary spec sheet) it does have a built-in DSP
mixer that goes to the headphone output, so you could play back a rough
multitrack mix in the field.

Or you could set it up so that its inputs come from the mixer's Insert
Send and its outputs go to the mixer's Insert Returns, and get your
playback through the mixer if you're doing a field recording job. But
that might be risky for recording with live PA since what comes out of
the mixer will be going through the recorder. There may not be enough
latency to worry about, but there's always the risk that the recorder
will somehow decide to mute its outputs.


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 05-06-2014 20:59, Mike Rivers wrote:

> There's a review of it on my web page.

Very informative, thank you.

> Cymatic has a new one coming out that offers 24 tracks of recording and
> playback. It was supposed to be available 2nd quarter of 2014. I should
> check with them to see when it's actually coming out. Although it
> doesn't have an extra 2 tracks to record its monitor mix (at least not
> according to the preliminary spec sheet) it does have a built-in DSP
> mixer that goes to the headphone output, so you could play back a rough
> multitrack mix in the field.

Ah, fits my budget nicely to wait even though the current model is what
I think I need.

> Or you could set it up so that its inputs come from the mixer's Insert
> Send and its outputs go to the mixer's Insert Returns, and get your
> playback through the mixer if you're doing a field recording job. But
> that might be risky for recording with live PA since what comes out of
> the mixer will be going through the recorder. There may not be enough
> latency to worry about, but there's always the risk that the recorder
> will somehow decide to mute its outputs.

It has been done with HD24's, but I'd rather not risk loosing the PA if
delivering it. Not currently an issue, I'm just looking for something to
carry tracks home in that has more tracks than an R44 - I will get an
extra 2'hand, that's why it suits me fine to postpone - and weighs less
than a HD 24 + 12 channel mixer. If only they had gotten the R44 right
so that it could be used with inserts ....

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Scott Dorsey]

Peter Larsen > wrote:
>It has been done with HD24's, but I'd rather not risk loosing the PA if
>delivering it. Not currently an issue, I'm just looking for something to
>carry tracks home in that has more tracks than an R44 - I will get an
>extra 2'hand, that's why it suits me fine to postpone - and weighs less
>than a HD 24 + 12 channel mixer. If only they had gotten the R44 right
>so that it could be used with inserts ....

Wait, why can't you use the R44 with inserts? You just need four cables
with 1/4" phone jacks... T and R on one end tied together to T on the other.

It's plugging the Ampex with the 600 ohm input into the inserts that is the
pain.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 06-06-2014 13:54, Scott Dorsey wrote:


> Peter Larsen > wrote:
>> It has been done with HD24's, but I'd rather not risk loosing the PA if
>> delivering it. Not currently an issue, I'm just looking for something to
>> carry tracks home in that has more tracks than an R44 - I will get an
>> extra 2'hand, that's why it suits me fine to postpone - and weighs less
>> than a HD 24 + 12 channel mixer. If only they had gotten the R44 right
>> so that it could be used with inserts ....

> Wait, why can't you use the R44 with inserts? You just need four cables
> with 1/4" phone jacks... T and R on one end tied together to T on the other.

> It's plugging the Ampex with the 600 ohm input into the inserts that is the
> pain.

Line outputs are at -15 dB ref. the input.

> --scott

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Scott Dorsey]

Peter Larsen > wrote:
>On 06-06-2014 13:54, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> Peter Larsen > wrote:
>>> It has been done with HD24's, but I'd rather not risk loosing the PA if
>>> delivering it. Not currently an issue, I'm just looking for something to
>>> carry tracks home in that has more tracks than an R44 - I will get an
>>> extra 2'hand, that's why it suits me fine to postpone - and weighs less
>>> than a HD 24 + 12 channel mixer. If only they had gotten the R44 right
>>> so that it could be used with inserts ....
>
>> Wait, why can't you use the R44 with inserts? You just need four cables
>> with 1/4" phone jacks... T and R on one end tied together to T on the other.
>
>> It's plugging the Ampex with the 600 ohm input into the inserts that is the
>> pain.
>
>Line outputs are at -15 dB ref. the input.

Right, but you aren't returning the signal, you're only using the insert
as a tap. The cable ties the insert input and output together and feeds
that to the recorder.

Now, you might need some way to monitor the record feeds but that's probably
best done with a second smaller console anyway.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."