Jazz Guitar Amp

[arizona_tone]

My trusty old polytone mini brute amp finally broke, and I'd like to
get something else for recording and gigging.

I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
D' Armand pickup.

I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
be miked).

I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.

Thanks

[Willie K.Yee, M.D.]

Post your query on rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz . You will get lots of
specific recommendations over there.

On 19 Oct 2003 00:14:58 -0700, (arizona_tone)
wrote:

>My trusty old polytone mini brute amp finally broke, and I'd like to
>get something else for recording and gigging.
>
>I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
>D' Armand pickup.
>
>I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
>anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
>be miked).
>
>I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.
>
>Thanks

Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

[Buster Mudd]

(arizona_tone) wrote in message >...
> My trusty old polytone mini brute amp finally broke, and I'd like to
> get something else for recording and gigging.
>
> I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
> D' Armand pickup.
>
> I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
> anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
> be miked).
>
> I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.
>


A Walter Woods Electracoustic head & a FliteSound cabinet loaded w/ an
old JBL D Series 12". Clean, crystal-clear, accurate w/ just a bit of
"color", the whole rig weighs less than 20 lbs & fits in a Miata.

On the other hand, PolyTone still makes MiniBrutes, hard to go wrong
w/ that choice. (Plus you don't have to wait 18 months for the amp to
be handbuilt like you do w/ the Woods.) I still use a 20+ year old
MiniBrute often, no regrets.

[badperson]

I play jazz guitar, I do home recording. I have a fender super reverb which
has the best sound, but sucks to schlep to gigs and is often noisy for
recording, and a polytone mini brute v (i think) which sounds great and is
much quieter.

my 2 cents.

bp



"Willie K.Yee, M.D." > wrote in message
...
> Post your query on rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz . You will get lots of
> specific recommendations over there.
>
> On 19 Oct 2003 00:14:58 -0700, (arizona_tone)
> wrote:
>
> >My trusty old polytone mini brute amp finally broke, and I'd like to
> >get something else for recording and gigging.
> >
> >I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
> >D' Armand pickup.
> >
> >I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
> >anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
> >be miked).
> >
> >I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.
> >
> >Thanks
>
> Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
> Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
> Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band
http://www.bigbluebigband.org
>

[Paul Gitlitz]

I just got a Fender Pro Junior used with that lovely old fender yellow
and brown herringbone cover for $275. I bought it specifically to use
with my archtop for jazz gigs. It sounds just like my larger Fender
Blues deluxe but is light to cart around. the heavy one now stays in
the studio. It is all tubes and has a 10" speaker. Only one volume
and one tone control. Simple and sounds fantastic. It will start to
get nice tube distortion as you crank it up. If you want perfectly
clean sound this is not the amp for you. The blues deluxe gets this
same sound but you have to hit ear splitting levels to get it, not for
me. I like the slight bit of breakup and never play really loud. I'd
rather mic the amp if it needs to be louder in the house.

On 19 Oct 2003 07:30:34 -0700, (Buster Mudd)
wrote:

(arizona_tone) wrote in message >...
>> My trusty old polytone mini brute amp finally broke, and I'd like to
>> get something else for recording and gigging.
>>
>> I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
>> D' Armand pickup.
>>
>> I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
>> anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
>> be miked).
>>
>> I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.
>>
>
>
>A Walter Woods Electracoustic head & a FliteSound cabinet loaded w/ an
>old JBL D Series 12". Clean, crystal-clear, accurate w/ just a bit of
>"color", the whole rig weighs less than 20 lbs & fits in a Miata.
>
>On the other hand, PolyTone still makes MiniBrutes, hard to go wrong
>w/ that choice. (Plus you don't have to wait 18 months for the amp to
>be handbuilt like you do w/ the Woods.) I still use a 20+ year old
>MiniBrute often, no regrets.

[ScotFraser]

<< My trusty old polytone mini brute amp finally broke, and I'd like to
get something else for recording and gigging.
I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
D' Armand pickup.
I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
be miked).
I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.>>

I always thought Polytones were cheaply made, prone to breaking, & only
marginal sounding. I see that Kenny Burrell is now playing a higher end
Polytone that looks to be considerably better made than the MiniBrute so maybe
they're learning something. Soundwise, I never understood the notion of
plugging a $5,000 guitar into a $200 amp & then turning the treble all the way
off. I'd look at a Fender Deluxe or maybe one of the smaller, less heavy
variants of the Roland JC120.


Scott Fraser

[Sean Conolly]

"Buster Mudd" > wrote in message
om...
> (arizona_tone) wrote in message
>...
> A Walter Woods Electracoustic head & a FliteSound cabinet loaded w/ an
> old JBL D Series 12". Clean, crystal-clear, accurate w/ just a bit of
> "color", the whole rig weighs less than 20 lbs & fits in a Miata.

.... and there happens to be one on Ebay at the moment:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2565954515

Sean

[EggHd]

<< I just got a Fender Pro Junior used with that lovely old fender yellow
and brown herringbone cover for $275. >>

They sound wonderful.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Jay - atldigi]

> I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
> D' Armand pickup.
> I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
> anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
> be miked).
> I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.

I play a 175 through a Roland JC120 and a little Fender. The Fenders are
more the classic sound, and the JC120 (and little siblings) is a bit
more contemporary, but still a good straight ahead jazz/bop sound - a
little more straight ahead Metheny trio or Scofield Blue Note years than
Joe Pass and Herb Ellis. A Fender Princeton Chorus would be somewhere in
between, and be portable, versatile, and affordable. That would be worth
checking into. Some of the new classic looking fenders like the blues
junior sound better with a 335 for blues, and aren't really a 175/L5 bop
or trad jazz sound. They're great amps still, but not the style you're
looking for in my experience. Vox has some current little and mid sized
amps that may fit the bill as well, but a Gibson archtop through a
medium sized Fender often seems to be a magic combo.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
Los Angeles
promastering.com

[Jack A. Zucker]

"Jay - atldigi" > wrote in message
...
> > I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
> > D' Armand pickup.
> > I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
> > anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
> > be miked).
> > I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.
>
> I play a 175 through a Roland JC120 and a little Fender. The Fenders are
> more the classic sound, and the JC120 (and little siblings) is a bit
> more contemporary, but still a good straight ahead jazz/bop sound - a
> little more straight ahead Metheny trio or Scofield Blue Note years than

The big drawback of the JC series is a very loud hiss, exacerbated if you
replace the speakers with better quality ones.

I've gone through every type of boutique jazz amp and the $350 Peavey
Transtube bandit sound the best to me for jazz...

[Guitarboy]

In article >, Jack A.
Zucker > wrote:

> "Jay - atldigi" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
> > > D' Armand pickup.
> > > I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
> > > anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
> > > be miked).
> > > I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.
> >
> > I play a 175 through a Roland JC120 and a little Fender. The Fenders are
> > more the classic sound, and the JC120 (and little siblings) is a bit
> > more contemporary, but still a good straight ahead jazz/bop sound - a
> > little more straight ahead Metheny trio or Scofield Blue Note years than
>
> The big drawback of the JC series is a very loud hiss, exacerbated if you
> replace the speakers with better quality ones.
>
> I've gone through every type of boutique jazz amp and the $350 Peavey
> Transtube bandit sound the best to me for jazz...
>
>if you can find them a pearce is amazing sounding for jazz straight
ahead or more contemporary. the heads have aa lot of power and are
solid state so they don't weigh a ton. for amore traditional sound with
a little breakup to it an ac30 is nice>

[Ron Florentine]

Jay - atldigi > wrote in message >...
> > I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
> > D' Armand pickup.
> > I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
> > anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
> > be miked).
> > I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.
>
> I play a 175 through a Roland JC120 and a little Fender. The Fenders are
> more the classic sound, and the JC120 (and little siblings) is a bit
> more contemporary, but still a good straight ahead jazz/bop sound - a
> little more straight ahead Metheny trio or Scofield Blue Note years than
> Joe Pass and Herb Ellis. A Fender Princeton Chorus would be somewhere in
> between, and be portable, versatile, and affordable. That would be worth
> checking into. Some of the new classic looking fenders like the blues
> junior sound better with a 335 for blues, and aren't really a 175/L5 bop
> or trad jazz sound. They're great amps still, but not the style you're
> looking for in my experience. Vox has some current little and mid sized
> amps that may fit the bill as well, but a Gibson archtop through a
> medium sized Fender often seems to be a magic combo.
I have owned an Evans combo amp..a very nice warm solid state amp but
I end up selling it and buying a Fender Deluxe (FAT series) I believe
that short for Fender American tube series. I just love the warm true
tube tone out of this amp....for a tube amp it is not very heavy,I
also own a Fender Blues Junior (the mini me version of the Deluxe) but
it does not come close to the tone of the deluxe. You definately need
to check this amp out you can buy them new for under 600.The music I
play is mostly standards to bop to methenyish type of music that amp
gets all those tones but when I do a studio session for a contempoary
record it works also.Good luck on your search.

Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio

[BASSMANCP]

Roland Jazz Chorus???? Yuck!!!!!!!!! sorry.

Chris P

[OldBluesman]

Check this one out: Roland JC-120 Jazz Chorus.


"Don't gimme' no grass and call it greens"
OldBluesman

[BananaHead]

(EggHd) wrote in message >...
> << I just got a Fender Pro Junior used with that lovely old fender yellow
> and brown herringbone cover for $275. >>
>
> They sound wonderful.


Ya they do. I've got two in the studio. Cool little all tube amp,
stick a sm57 on it, sounds bad ass without getting too loud. I also
use them for putting a little extra stereo ampage on a drum kit and
room micing the whole mess. Drums like to drive a speaker sometimes
too you know.

Also have the roland jazz chorus 120. Very very very very clean.

bh

[Ron Florentine]

(BASSMANCP) wrote in message >...
> Roland Jazz Chorus???? Yuck!!!!!!!!! sorry.
>
> Chris P

I second that ........Yuck-Yuck

[OldBluesman]

Why? I heard several Jazz guitarists playing thru it. For Jazz it was real
clean and had plenty of volume room. For Blues I wouldn't recommend it. Too
clean.



"Don't gimme' no grass and call it greens"
OldBluesman

[Joe Pacheco]

(arizona_tone) wrote in message >...
> My trusty old polytone mini brute amp finally broke, and I'd like to
> get something else for recording and gigging.
>
> I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
> D' Armand pickup.
>
> I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
> anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
> be miked).
>
> I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.
>
> Thanks

Hmmm.. Try a standell amp. Even a re-issue. Not commonly mentioned
with Jazz, but trust me. Just try one.

[Jay - atldigi]

In article >,
(BASSMANCP) wrote:

> Roland Jazz Chorus???? Yuck!!!!!!!!! sorry.
>
> Chris P

I've heard some guys making really great sounds come out of JC120s. Then
again, Stern got this killer sound (for his kinf of thing - not a trad
jazz sound) out of a Yamaha amp. I swear it was just for show and the
real amp was behind the curtain with a mic on it! You never know. I
wouldn't say the JC is the only amp to have around. It doesn't replace a
Fender by any stretch of the imagination, but it has it's own thing and
it's really great sometimes. That's why I (who am actually a piano
player first) keep both a Fender and a Roland around. Covers all my
bases.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
Los Angeles
promastering.com

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

arizona_tone > wrote:

> My trusty old polytone mini brute amp finally broke, and I'd like to
> get something else for recording and gigging.
>
> I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
> D' Armand pickup.
>
> I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
> anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
> be miked).
>
> I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.


I'd probably buy a reissue Fender Deluxe Reverb. It's about $700, is
fairly easy to carry, sounds amazing, and has about the right output
power for reasonable stage volume in a "medium size" jazz club. We have
one in the studio and use it for a LOT of our guitar overdubs.

If you're keeping score at home, make note that the Fender amps that
are ACTUAL reissues of real amps that were built "back then" ('65Twin
Reverb, '65 Deluxe Reverb, '59 Bassman) tend to be fantastic . But the
"faux reissues" (they look retro but are something that never existed,
like the Vibro King) or the "updates" (The Twin, aka Evil Twin) are
absolute crap. Reliable, but they sound bad. Basically, if you see
any modern-looking switches (pushbutton with plastic caps) on the front
or rear panels, steer clear. If the switches are all chrome-bat
toggles, that's good. I have no idea why they make so many different
horrible-sounding retro amps, but they do. It's the same deal with
their guitars: The catalog is FILLEd with all these ridiculous
variations on the classics that you KNOW are going to be as embarassing
in 20 years as the Zodiac amps are today. But they still make the
basic standard models just fine. I'm no worshipper at the altar of
Classic Rock Conventions, but Fender, as usual, has no clue when it
comes to "modernizing" their time-tested designs. Every ten years or
so they have some big "back to basics" epiphany and they purge
themselves of all the crap. Then it slowly creeps back in and dilutes
their brand for another 10 years til it starts all over again. This
has been a consistent trend for the last 40 years.

Sorry for the rant. Buy a Deluxe.

ulysses

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

OldBluesman > wrote:

> Why? I heard several Jazz guitarists playing thru it. For Jazz it was real
> clean and had plenty of volume room. For Blues I wouldn't recommend it. Too
> clean.
>

I wouldn't mind having a JC120 in the studio for 80s-type new wave
revival bands, but I wouldn't use it on jazz guitar. Just try and
remember what the popular notion of "jazz" was at the time when that
amp was designed!

ulysses

[Mondoslug1]

Jay F wrote:

>I've heard some guys making really great sounds come out of JC120s. Then
>again, Stern got this killer sound (for his kinf of thing - not a trad
>jazz sound) out of a Yamaha amp. I swear it was just for show and the
>real amp was behind the curtain with a mic on it!

Never cared for his tone much - his chops that's another story. IMO
of course.


You never know. I
>wouldn't say the JC is the only amp to have around. It doesn't replace a
>Fender by any stretch of the imagination, but it has it's own thing and
>it's really great sometimes. That's why I (who am actually a piano
>player first) keep both a Fender and a Roland around. Covers all my
>bases.
>
>--
>Jay Frigoletto
>Mastersuite
>Los Angeles
>promastering.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Tom Paterson]

>From: Justin Ulysses Morse

(snipped life experience)
>Buy a Deluxe.

Not to impugn the above, at all. But, a possible alternative--Music Man can be
a value in "vintage" if you lean that way.

Just an ebay example, "no connection with seller": <http://tinyurl.com/rqlr>

Music Man made many configs of 10, 12, 15" speaker "combo amps" for guitar.
Some 6CA7, some 6L6 power tubes/"hybrid" preamp.
At least for some sounds/players, the master volume/channel volume blend works
well. Worth a look. --Tom Paterson

[Sharp9]

I'm a bit of a snob about amps and I have a bunch of tube amps but if I'm
gonna play jazz all night (not a tux thing but a real pre Beatles kinda jazz
gig) I'll take my Ampeg B-50 bass amp. Tiny, light, loud and I paid $200 for
it and I've seen em on eBay for not much more. Great studio bass amp too. I
don't remember ever liking a solid state amp this much, ever.

I have never had the opportunity to play a Standel but that's what Wes
played most of the time. I wouldn't be surprised if the amp had little to do
with his tone though.

Don

"arizona_tone" > wrote in message
om...
> My trusty old polytone mini brute amp finally broke, and I'd like to
> get something else for recording and gigging.
>
> I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
> D' Armand pickup.
>
> I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
> anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
> be miked).
>
> I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.
>
> Thanks

[ScotFraser]

<< I wouldn't mind having a JC120 in the studio for 80s-type new wave
revival bands, but I wouldn't use it on jazz guitar. Just try and
remember what the popular notion of "jazz" was at the time when that
amp was designed! >>

I think there is a definite place on the color palette for clean solid state
amp sounds. I use an old Standell Imperial XV for that, but the JC120 does it
real well, too. I think the JC120 weighs way too much for the jazz gig the
original poster described, but there are smaller variations, like the JC80 with
twin 10"s. As for non-clean sounds on the JC120, I would just refer you all to
1980s era King Crimson & Adrian Belew's solo work.

Scott Fraser

[Buster Mudd]

(OldBluesman) wrote in message >...
> Why? I heard several Jazz guitarists playing thru it. For Jazz it was real
> clean and had plenty of volume room. For Blues I wouldn't recommend it. Too
> clean.
>


It's not a question of Clean versus Dirty, it's a question of Colored
In A Peculiar Way versus Colored In A Less Peculiar (Or At Least
Idiomatically More Appropriate) Way.

The Roland JC-120 has a very conspicuous & distinctive voicing; it is
performing some radical EQ to your instrument regardless of how the
tone controls are set. It's very difficult to overcome that shaping in
order to emulate the more traditional jazz guitar sound of a Fender
Twin or a PolyTone MiniBrute. (Not that those two amps sound alike,
but both are reasonably adept at getting that Wes Montgomery/Barney
Kessel tone with very little fiddling.)

[Guitarboy]

In article >, Jay
- atldigi > wrote:

> In article >,
> (BASSMANCP) wrote:
>
> > Roland Jazz Chorus???? Yuck!!!!!!!!! sorry.
> >
> > Chris P
>
> I've heard some guys making really great sounds come out of JC120s. Then
> again, Stern got this killer sound (for his kinf of thing - not a trad
> jazz sound) out of a Yamaha amp. I swear it was just for show and the
> real amp was behind the curtain with a mic on it! You never know. I
> wouldn't say the JC is the only amp to have around. It doesn't replace a
> Fender by any stretch of the imagination, but it has it's own thing and
> it's really great sometimes. That's why I (who am actually a piano
> player first) keep both a Fender and a Roland around. Covers all my
> bases.
stern usually uses 2 amps one is a pearce with a hartke 4X12 bottom
and the other is a yamaha 2X12 combo probably solid state. i think it
gets stereo'd at his spx 90. its funny because the pearce is actually a
stereo amp but thats how he likes it. i think he gets an amazing sound
especially considering the amps. scofield uses a matchless or an ac-30
these days.

[ScotFraser]

<< PolyTone MiniBrute. (Not that those two amps sound alike,
but both are reasonably adept at getting that Wes Montgomery/Barney
Kessel tone with very little fiddling.)>>

To my ears, even though I know many jazz players who like them, the MiniBrute
just sounds like it's in too small a box for the Wes/Kessel/Burrell/Hall
thing. What does seem to do it is a Walter Woods into a single 12" cabinet.


Scott Fraser

[Jay - atldigi]

In article >,
(Buster Mudd) wrote:

> The Roland JC-120 has a very conspicuous & distinctive voicing; it is
> performing some radical EQ to your instrument regardless of how the
> tone controls are set.

Just to be clear - you don't think that a Fender amp is just giving back
what you put into it, do you? Guitar amps almost by definition are very
colored beasts. That's the point. A guitar doesn't sound very nice
plugged directly into the console, but that's the uncolored version. For
amps, you pick the color that pleases you, and if you're lucky, you get
more than one to cover different situations.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
Los Angeles
promastering.com

[John Cafarella]

"Buster Mudd" > wrote in message
om...
> (OldBluesman) wrote in message
>...
> The Roland JC-120 has a very conspicuous & distinctive voicing; it is
> performing some radical EQ to your instrument regardless of how the
> tone controls are set. It's very difficult to overcome that shaping in
> order to emulate the more traditional jazz guitar sound of a Fender
> Twin or a PolyTone MiniBrute. (Not that those two amps sound alike,
> but both are reasonably adept at getting that Wes Montgomery/Barney
> Kessel tone with very little fiddling.)

I've heard some really nice tones out of an old Roland Bolt 60. Transistor
preamp and tube poweramp.

--
John Cafarella
EOR Studio
Melbourne Australia
[ cafarellaj at powertel dot com dot au ]

[Rob Reedijk]

Justin Ulysses Morse > wrote:
> arizona_tone > wrote:

>> My trusty old polytone mini brute amp finally broke, and I'd like to
>> get something else for recording and gigging.
>>
>> I'm playing a Gibson 175 and a Gibson L40 or (L50?) hollow-body with a
>> D' Armand pickup.
>>
>> I'm not up on amps these days. I play classic jazz and hard Bop. Can
>> anyone recommend a good amp for recording and stage work (which will
>> be miked).
>>
>> I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.


> I'd probably buy a reissue Fender Deluxe Reverb. It's about $700, is
> fairly easy to carry, sounds amazing, and has about the right output
> power for reasonable stage volume in a "medium size" jazz club. We have
> one in the studio and use it for a LOT of our guitar overdubs.

> If you're keeping score at home, make note that the Fender amps that
> are ACTUAL reissues of real amps that were built "back then" ('65Twin
> Reverb, '65 Deluxe Reverb, '59 Bassman) tend to be fantastic . But the
> "faux reissues" (they look retro but are something that never existed,
> like the Vibro King) or the "updates" (The Twin, aka Evil Twin) are
> absolute crap. Reliable, but they sound bad. Basically, if you see
> any modern-looking switches (pushbutton with plastic caps) on the front
> or rear panels, steer clear. If the switches are all chrome-bat
> toggles, that's good. I have no idea why they make so many different
> horrible-sounding retro amps, but they do. It's the same deal with
> their guitars: The catalog is FILLEd with all these ridiculous
> variations on the classics that you KNOW are going to be as embarassing
> in 20 years as the Zodiac amps are today. But they still make the
> basic standard models just fine. I'm no worshipper at the altar of
> Classic Rock Conventions, but Fender, as usual, has no clue when it
> comes to "modernizing" their time-tested designs. Every ten years or
> so they have some big "back to basics" epiphany and they purge
> themselves of all the crap. Then it slowly creeps back in and dilutes
> their brand for another 10 years til it starts all over again. This
> has been a consistent trend for the last 40 years.

> Sorry for the rant. Buy a Deluxe.

Ever try a Champ12? Late eighties all tube 6L6 12 watt amp. Has one
of the best built in distortions I have come across. Aside from
using "champ" in the name, it isn't really trying to be anything
vintage. Try one if you can.

Rob R.

[OldBluesman]

Man this was good info. Just for info I play Jazz/Blues harmonica and I play
thru a 1946 Gibson BR3. I let a jazz guitarists play thru it. It sounded so
good the guy was wanting to buy my amp on the spot.


"Don't gimme' no grass and call it greens"
OldBluesman

[Keith W Blackwell]

(arizona_tone) wrote in message >...
> I'd prefer something not too heavy and around $500 to $700 or less.

Look for an early 1950's Gibsonette. All tube, only about 8 watts
(or maybe more, depending on model). Pay maybe $200 (?) and another
$80 to have your tech work it over replacing the out-of-tolerance
parts to clean it up. It only gives you one quiet tone, not much
louder than an acoustic, but it's a nice sound for jazz, great for
the studio, very lightweight to carry with one hand. The only
drawback is that it might be too quiet even for miking on stage if
you're in a group with some other sources that are very loud. I
have a smaller Gibsonette and I drive it with a Carvin Quad X Amp
for non-jazz stuff, but a friend of mine is a real(TM) jazz
guitarist and he has a slightly larger one with a larger speaker
and stiffer front panel and more tubes. I take his word for it
that these are great amps for jazz guitar, and I pass it along,
but myself don't do jazz guitar very well. If you can locate one,
check it out.

--
Keith W Blackwell

[Buster Mudd]

Jay - atldigi > wrote in message >...

>
> Just to be clear - you don't think that a Fender amp is just giving back
> what you put into it, do you?

No, not at all. I just was pointing out that the coloration of a
Fender is already getting you halfway towards a trad jazz tone,
whereas the coloration of a JC-120 is taking you farther away from
that than one should reasonably expect from an amp called the "Jazz
Chorus"

[WillStG]

(ScotFraser)
>I think there is a definite place on the color palette for clean solid state
amp sounds. I use an old Standell Imperial XV for that, but the JC120 does it
real well, too. I think the JC120 weighs way too much for the jazz gig the
original poster described, but there are smaller variations, like the JC80 with
twin 10"s.>

I thought that was a JC77 - the JC55 also has a bit more warmth than the
JC120, of course it distorts at lower volume.

>As for non-clean sounds on the JC120, I would just refer you all to 1980s era
King Crimson & Adrian Belew's solo work.>

Hey, I used to have a Roland G300... The guitars with those things were
pretty sweet.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[WillStG]

> Jay - atldigi

>Then
>again, Stern got this killer sound (for his kinf of thing - not a trad
>jazz sound) out of a Yamaha amp. I swear it was just for show and the
>real amp was behind the curtain with a mic on it! You never know.

The old G100 solid state Yamaha's had a great parametric eq which was
really a great feature for dialing in a tone, more guitar amp designers should
try that. I liked the version with a 15" speaker better than the 10'' or 2 x
12" though. And Soldano designed the Yamaha T100 tube amps, not too shabby
either.

>That's why I (who am actually a piano
>player first) keep both a Fender and a Roland around. Covers all my
>bases.

Hey, I played a few hundred Dinner dances, weddings and bar mitzvahs with
a Randall RG80. Good clean sound and extremely reliable, and a great Celestion
speaker. Sometimes I still use one as a speaker cab for my Fender Deluxe...

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[ScotFraser]

<< I thought that was a JC77 ->>

I was pretty close, only 3 off.

<< the JC55 also has a bit more warmth than the
JC120, of course it distorts at lower volume. >>

Was that a single 12" combo?


Scott Fraser

[WillStG]

(ScotFraser)

><< the JC55 also has a bit more warmth than the
>JC120, of course it distorts at lower volume. >>
>
>Was that a single 12" combo?

2 x 8"s!


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[Jay - atldigi]

In article >,
(Buster Mudd) wrote:

> Jay - atldigi > wrote
> > Just to be clear - you don't think that a Fender amp is just giving
> > back what you put into it, do you?
>
> No, not at all. I just was pointing out that the coloration of a
> Fender is already getting you halfway towards a trad jazz tone,
> whereas the coloration of a JC-120 is taking you farther away from
> that than one should reasonably expect from an amp called the "Jazz
> Chorus"

That is how I understood it - but wanted to clarify. I definitely
understand the two different tones, and of course love the Fenders (if I
could choose only one amp, it would probably be a Feneder) but I guess I
see the JC-120 as having more uses than you do. If it doesn't work for
you, that's cool. Maybe it feels more like a "pop chorus" or "80's new
wave chorus" to you - I could see that.

I've really heard some guys get it singing, especially for a somewhat
more contemporary jazz sound, and even in my less than expert hands,
it's great for some things. At the same time, as I've said from the
beginning of the thread, the most traditional jazz sound will likely
come from a Fender.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
Los Angeles
promastering.com

[Jack A. Zucker]

"OldBluesman" > wrote in message
...
> Why? I heard several Jazz guitarists playing thru it. For Jazz it was
real
> clean and had plenty of volume room. For Blues I wouldn't recommend it.
Too
> clean.

Probably because they aren't jazz players.

[WillStG]

> (ScotFraser)
>And it's warmer than the JC120? Same preamp, but a smaller power amp?

I dunno what's in it, but the JC120 is so clean it can get a bit honky
before it starts to get fuzzy, the 55 and 77 are easier to get that kinda
slightly overdriven tone out of when you're not playing real loud situations
like a club date.


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[Jack A. Zucker]

"WillStG" > wrote in message
...
> > (ScotFraser)
> >And it's warmer than the JC120? Same preamp, but a smaller power amp?
>
> I dunno what's in it, but the JC120 is so clean it can get a bit honky
> before it starts to get fuzzy, the 55 and 77 are easier to get that kinda
> slightly overdriven tone out of when you're not playing real loud
situations
> like a club date.

They all hiss badly. Not good amps for recording or where you have to mic
'em.

[Willie K.Yee, M.D.]

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:03:51 GMT, "Jack A. Zucker"
> wrote:

>They all hiss badly. Not good amps for recording or where you have to mic
>'em.

The hiss is put in there to tell the engineer to eq the top off, which
will get you that nice jazz guitar sound.


Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

[steve]

The 55 I used to have had a distortion knob, never got real grungy, but
ok if you didn't have a decent stomp box.

WillStG wrote:
>
> > (ScotFraser)
> >And it's warmer than the JC120? Same preamp, but a smaller power amp?
>
> I dunno what's in it, but the JC120 is so clean it can get a bit honky
> before it starts to get fuzzy, the 55 and 77 are easier to get that kinda
> slightly overdriven tone out of when you're not playing real loud situations
> like a club date.
>
> Will Miho
> NY Music & TV Audio Guy
> Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
> "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[steve]

One of the best jazz sound I heard came from a Birdland and Blackface
Deluxe Reverb, but as they say 99% is in the hands of the player.

Jay - atldigi wrote:

>
> I've really heard some guys get it singing, especially for a somewhat
> more contemporary jazz sound, and even in my less than expert hands,
> it's great for some things. At the same time, as I've said from the
> beginning of the thread, the most traditional jazz sound will likely
> come from a Fender.
>
> --
> Jay Frigoletto
> Mastersuite
> Los Angeles
> promastering.com

[Edwin Hurwitz]

In article >,
Jay - atldigi > wrote:

> In article >,
> (BASSMANCP) wrote:
>
> > Roland Jazz Chorus???? Yuck!!!!!!!!! sorry.
> >
> > Chris P
>
> I've heard some guys making really great sounds come out of JC120s. Then
> again, Stern got this killer sound (for his kinf of thing - not a trad
> jazz sound) out of a Yamaha amp. I swear it was just for show and the
> real amp was behind the curtain with a mic on it!


When I first saw Stern in the early 80s, he was using Acoustic 134s in
stereo. They sounded pretty good (althought that MXR chorus box put it's
sound all over the tone). It seemed like a lot to carry around. I wish I
had some tapes of those shows, especially with Bill Evans at the Hasty
Pudding.

Edwin
--
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