mk41 I beat the proximity effect

[Nate Najar]

my classical guitars are difficult to mic closely because they're very complex sound radiators. I've tried omnis but I still feel like I need to pull the mic back and that introduces more room of course. RE15 works terrific because of the variable D and it is a very midrange focused sound, but there just isn't quite enough detail for critical recording work. Although I'd use it in a pinch.

This morning when I was practicing I thought of something and I took the mk41 and pointed it at the floor and played into the side of the capsule. Holy hell, there it is. It's like an omni but with less room. Surprisingly the gain didn't change much- the huge proximity effect end away so there's much lower gain in the low end, but the mid and high registers felt about the same. What a terrific, natural sound.

The only drawback I can see to this arrangement is that now the capsule has 360 degree pickup and there's no side rejection, so I'm not sure how to do this while playing with an ensemble.

In a few months I'm making another recording of my own trio and I'll be doing it myself so I've been obsessing a bit over in which room to record, how to set us up, which mics to use, and how to place them.

But man, I can't believe how good that sounds. It sounds eons better than my little dpa 4060 omni.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, May 14, 2014 12:21:18 PM UTC-5, Nate Najar wrote:
> my classical guitars are difficult to mic closely because they're very complex sound radiators. I've tried omnis but I still feel like I need to pull the mic back and that introduces more room of course. RE15 works terrific because of the variable D and it is a very midrange focused sound, but there just isn't quite enough detail for critical recording work. Although I'd use it in a pinch.
>
>
>
> This morning when I was practicing I thought of something and I took the mk41 and pointed it at the floor and played into the side of the capsule. Holy hell, there it is. It's like an omni but with less room. Surprisingly the gain didn't change much- the huge proximity effect end away so there's much lower gain in the low end, but the mid and high registers felt about the same. What a terrific, natural sound.
>
>
>
> The only drawback I can see to this arrangement is that now the capsule has 360 degree pickup and there's no side rejection, so I'm not sure how to do this while playing with an ensemble.
>
>
>
> In a few months I'm making another recording of my own trio and I'll be doing it myself so I've been obsessing a bit over in which room to record, how to set us up, which mics to use, and how to place them.
>
>
>
> But man, I can't believe how good that sounds. It sounds eons better than my little dpa 4060 omni.



Have you ever tried a pair of SM-81's in a stereo X/Y? It might not work so well on a nylon string classical. But, I use that setup often on steel string acoustics with very good results!

You get nice detail & any boominess is controlled by moving the mic slightly.

As for using an omni while playing with an ensemble....could be tough. Obviously, you'll want to point the mic away from other instruments...even though it is an omni. I suppose you'll just have to try a few positions & see what works best.

Depending on how loudly you play, it might work OK. But, if you're a real soft touch player.....probably not going to work very well.

If you'll be playing with a drummer....as you might guess, you'll also want to put some distance between you & the drums/percussion.

Mike

[PStamler]

Nate, your experience dovetails, in a way, with one I had a while back with a Neumann KM 84. I discovered that, for a performer playing an acoustic guitar (in this case a steel-string) I got the best results with the mic about a foot in front of him, pointed at his mouth.

Yes, his mouth. I'd been trying to use the KM 84 to pick up both voice and guitar, but when he quit singing, I discovered that I was getting an excellent recording of the guitar -- far better than I got with the mic pointed directly at the guitar (no matter where on the guitar I pointed it). A few years later I had the same result when recording a mountain dulcimer -- pointing the mic well above the instrument, in this case at the performer's neck, gave much better results than pointing it straight at the dulcimer.

So that particular mic, on two occasions, sounded more accurate with the instrument at about 90 degrees off axis than it sounded on axis. The KM 84 is a cardioid; whether the same might hold true for the hypercardioid Schoeps, I don't know, but it might be worth trying a take with the mic pointed at about your Adam's apple, and seeing what happens.

Just a couple of data points.

Peace,
Paul

[Nate Najar]

It works with the coles 4038 too!

It is remarkable how good the off axis response is on these mics.

[Scott Dorsey]

Nate Najar > wrote:
>It works with the coles 4038 too!
>
>It is remarkable how good the off axis response is on these mics.

That's why they cost that much!

If you think the MK41 is good, try the MK2. You can point it in any
direction and not be able to tell where it's pointed, almost.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

Nate Najar > wrote:

> It works with the coles 4038 too!
>
> It is remarkable how good the off axis response is on these mics.

It would be good in the horizontal plane because the ribbon (=
diaphragm) is only about 0.25" wide, so there is no significant phase
difference across its width. In the vertical plane, it is a different
story.

The proximity effect only occurs when the spherical component of a
wavefront acts on a pressure-difference transducer (such as the ribbon
of a 'velocity' mic). I'm not saying you haven't heard an effect, but I
can't see how a true proximity effect can be reduced by turning a mic
which has only a pressure-difference response. (I could understand how
it might happen with a cardioid, but not with a ribbon.)

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
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