WAV Metadata and XP

[gareth magennis]

Hi,

I have a copy of a load of WAV's from a friend who is having problems seeing
the Metadata in XP.

He has a Numark DDS system that he uses to rip CD tracks to WAV onto a USB
Hard Drive, and he then manually enters the Album Title, Track Title and
Artist data.
The Hard Drive is FAT32.

Now, when you look at the Hard Drive contents with a PC running WinXP, you
cannot see any of this metadata, just a meaningless list of track1-1 track
1-2 etc.
This means library housekeeping on the XP machine is impossible, it has to
be done on the DDS which is a pain.

However in Windows 8 you CAN see this data. I can see Title, Contributing
Artist, and Album, all the data he has manually entered.


Is there a way to enable XP to see this metadata?
I notice the 2 sets of metadata seem to be different. XP has "Album Title"
as one field, whereas Window 8 has "Album", so it looks like it is a
different system altogether.



Cheers,


Gareth.

[Phantom Post]

"Gareth Magennis" > wrote in
:

> Hi,
>
> I have a copy of a load of WAV's from a friend who is having problems
> seeing the Metadata in XP.
>
> He has a Numark DDS system that he uses to rip CD tracks to WAV onto a
> USB Hard Drive, and he then manually enters the Album Title, Track
> Title and Artist data.
> The Hard Drive is FAT32.
>
> Now, when you look at the Hard Drive contents with a PC running WinXP,
> you cannot see any of this metadata, just a meaningless list of
> track1-1 track 1-2 etc.
> This means library housekeeping on the XP machine is impossible, it
> has to be done on the DDS which is a pain.
>
> However in Windows 8 you CAN see this data. I can see Title,
> Contributing Artist, and Album, all the data he has manually entered.
>
>
> Is there a way to enable XP to see this metadata?
> I notice the 2 sets of metadata seem to be different. XP has "Album
> Title" as one field, whereas Window 8 has "Album", so it looks like it
> is a different system altogether.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Gareth.
>

Is that in Windows Explorer (file explorer) that you see the meta data in
in 8 but not XP? I wonder if the md can be seen in Windows Media Player
or any other player that's good at that sort of thing. With MP3 I've
used a program called MP3tag but doubt that's of any help with .wav
files.

--

Pat

email: phartzATcoxDOTnet

[gareth magennis]

"Phantom Post" wrote in message
.116...

"Gareth Magennis" > wrote in
:

> Hi,
>
> I have a copy of a load of WAV's from a friend who is having problems
> seeing the Metadata in XP.
>
> He has a Numark DDS system that he uses to rip CD tracks to WAV onto a
> USB Hard Drive, and he then manually enters the Album Title, Track
> Title and Artist data.
> The Hard Drive is FAT32.
>
> Now, when you look at the Hard Drive contents with a PC running WinXP,
> you cannot see any of this metadata, just a meaningless list of
> track1-1 track 1-2 etc.
> This means library housekeeping on the XP machine is impossible, it
> has to be done on the DDS which is a pain.
>
> However in Windows 8 you CAN see this data. I can see Title,
> Contributing Artist, and Album, all the data he has manually entered.
>
>
> Is there a way to enable XP to see this metadata?
> I notice the 2 sets of metadata seem to be different. XP has "Album
> Title" as one field, whereas Window 8 has "Album", so it looks like it
> is a different system altogether.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Gareth.
>

Is that in Windows Explorer (file explorer) that you see the meta data in
in 8 but not XP? I wonder if the md can be seen in Windows Media Player
or any other player that's good at that sort of thing. With MP3 I've
used a program called MP3tag but doubt that's of any help with .wav
files.

--



Yes, that is using File Explorer in Win8.

It seems that Win 8 has a different set of metadata fields you can display
than the ones XP uses.
I'm a bit confused as to what's really going on here.


I have MP3tag, which I find works well for mp3's, but its only for mp3's,
AFAIK.



Cheers,


Gareth.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Gareth Magennis wrote:

>> He has a Numark DDS system that he uses to rip CD tracks to WAV onto
>> a USB Hard Drive, and he then manually enters the Album Title, Track
>> Title and Artist data.

>> The Hard Drive is FAT32.

NTFS may or may not have unconsidered advantages. But this should work:
right click on the field "name" uppermost in the relevant explorer window
and select what fields to display. You'll know sooner than I whether it
works to his satisfaction.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Phantom Post]

"Gareth Magennis" > wrote in
:

>
> Yes, that is using File Explorer in Win8.
>
> It seems that Win 8 has a different set of metadata fields you can
> display than the ones XP uses.
> I'm a bit confused as to what's really going on here.
>
>

Yeah, the capabilites of File Explorer to show all that that are in Win8
were definitely not in XP. Seems that back at that time Windows Media
Player was the only thing that showed/allowed editing those kinds of tags.

Okay. I tested on my XP w/Media Player 11. Loaded a couple of wavs and
though my wavs didn't have any meta data it allowed me to see and edit the
columns. This is in the library fields of Media Player. You might have to
set WMP to look in the proper folder and add your files to it's library
then you should be able to see them.

--

Pat

email: phartzATcoxDOTnet

[Phantom Post]

"Peter Larsen" > wrote in
k:

> NTFS may or may not have unconsidered advantages. But this should
> work: right click on the field "name" uppermost in the relevant
> explorer window and select what fields to display. You'll know sooner
> than I whether it works to his satisfaction.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen
>

That does look like it will work too. Good call.

--

Pat

email: phartzATcoxDOTnet

[gareth magennis]

"Phantom Post" wrote in message
.116...

"Peter Larsen" > wrote in
k:

> NTFS may or may not have unconsidered advantages. But this should
> work: right click on the field "name" uppermost in the relevant
> explorer window and select what fields to display. You'll know sooner
> than I whether it works to his satisfaction.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen
>

That does look like it will work too. Good call.




No it does not work, this is exactly what I am saying does not work.

The information is not there.


Gareth.

[gareth magennis]

"Phantom Post" wrote in message
.116...

"Gareth Magennis" > wrote in
:

>
> Yes, that is using File Explorer in Win8.
>
> It seems that Win 8 has a different set of metadata fields you can
> display than the ones XP uses.
> I'm a bit confused as to what's really going on here.
>
>

Yeah, the capabilites of File Explorer to show all that that are in Win8
were definitely not in XP. Seems that back at that time Windows Media
Player was the only thing that showed/allowed editing those kinds of tags.

Okay. I tested on my XP w/Media Player 11. Loaded a couple of wavs and
though my wavs didn't have any meta data it allowed me to see and edit the
columns. This is in the library fields of Media Player. You might have to
set WMP to look in the proper folder and add your files to it's library
then you should be able to see them.






OK, I have looked at Media Player in XP, and the columns in the library
fields are all blank, just the filenames visible (track1, track2 etc)

I think this is because the metadata are stored in Win8 format, and XP
doesn't have a clue what that means.



Cheers,

Gareth.

[Scott Dorsey]

Gareth Magennis > wrote:
>Yes, that is using File Explorer in Win8.
>
>It seems that Win 8 has a different set of metadata fields you can display
>than the ones XP uses.
>I'm a bit confused as to what's really going on here.

This being Windows, the "metadata" is actually data from the standpoint of
the OS... that is, it's stuff that is actually in the Broadcast WAV file.

So the Explorer is opening up the files, taking some data out to identify
them, and displaying it.

XP's Explorer probably can't do that, in fact it probably predates the
Broadcast WAV format itself.

Somebody out there might have made an application to do it, though.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Nil[_2_]]

On 03 May 2014, "Gareth Magennis" >
wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> I think this is because the metadata are stored in Win8 format,
> and XP doesn't have a clue what that means.

No. There is no such thing as "Win8 format" for audio file metadata.

There is little standardized support for metadata within WAV files. You
should consider converting your WAV files to FLAC format, which is
widely supported by many players, either natively or via plugins.

[Scott Dorsey]

Nil > wrote:
>
>There is little standardized support for metadata within WAV files. You
>should consider converting your WAV files to FLAC format, which is
>widely supported by many players, either natively or via plugins.

But there IS a standard for this information, namely the Broadcast WAV
extensions.

And this standard is increasingly supported by more and more applications.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Nil[_2_]]

On 03 May 2014, (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> But there IS a standard for this information, namely the Broadcast
> WAV extensions.
>
> And this standard is increasingly supported by more and more
> applications. --scott

Well, there are a bunch of "standards", including Broadcast WAV, and
WAV files can contain lots of different ones. The problem is what the
player application chooses to recognize. I guess that newer audio
editors would be likely to read and write Broadcast WAV metainfo, but
hardware and software audio players? I haven't noticed that many of
them can do it. Can you name some?

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Gareth Magennis wrote:

> "Phantom Post" wrote in message
> .116...

> "Gareth Magennis" > wrote in
> :

>> Yes, that is using File Explorer in Win8.

>> It seems that Win 8 has a different set of metadata fields you can
>> display than the ones XP uses.
>> I'm a bit confused as to what's really going on here.

> Yeah, the capabilites of File Explorer to show all that that are in
> Win8 were definitely not in XP. Seems that back at that time Windows
> Media Player was the only thing that showed/allowed editing those
> kinds of tags.

I tested it on this windows xp box before posting so it works in windows xp
and the populated metadata fields from my camera are displayed.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[gareth magennis]

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k...

Gareth Magennis wrote:

> "Phantom Post" wrote in message
> .116...

> "Gareth Magennis" > wrote in
> :

>> Yes, that is using File Explorer in Win8.

>> It seems that Win 8 has a different set of metadata fields you can
>> display than the ones XP uses.
>> I'm a bit confused as to what's really going on here.

> Yeah, the capabilites of File Explorer to show all that that are in
> Win8 were definitely not in XP. Seems that back at that time Windows
> Media Player was the only thing that showed/allowed editing those
> kinds of tags.

I tested it on this windows xp box before posting so it works in windows xp
and the populated metadata fields from my camera are displayed.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen



To clarify again:

I have a hard drive containing the files, an XP laptop and a Win8 laptop.

On the Win8 laptop I can see "Title", "Contributing Artist" and "Album"
fields, which are populated with the correct names my friend typed in on the
Numark DDS hardware system. This is a stand alone system, not a PC or Mac,
but obviously uses the same metadata fields that Win8 does, the drive is
FAT32.

On the XP laptop, a seemingly different set of fields are displayed -
"Title", "Artist" and "Album Title". These are not populated with the data
entered manually, and that is the specific problem here.

For example, XP only has an "Artist" field, whilst Win8 has "Contributing
Artists", "Album Artist", but no "Artist" .

The Field "Title" does appear in both lists, but where the Win8 field does
contain the manually entered track title, the XP one does not.




Cheers,

Gareth.

[gareth magennis]

"Nil" wrote in message ...

On 03 May 2014, (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> But there IS a standard for this information, namely the Broadcast
> WAV extensions.
>
> And this standard is increasingly supported by more and more
> applications. --scott

Well, there are a bunch of "standards", including Broadcast WAV, and
WAV files can contain lots of different ones. The problem is what the
player application chooses to recognize. I guess that newer audio
editors would be likely to read and write Broadcast WAV metainfo, but
hardware and software audio players? I haven't noticed that many of
them can do it. Can you name some?




Right, this is interesting, I should have done this before, apologies for
that.

I have ripped a commercial CD in Win 8, and it shows data in both "Name" and
"Title" fields, "Contributing Artists", and "Album".

Putting this on the hard drive and connecting to the XP laptop, I can see
the same data in both "Name" and "Title" fields, "Artist", and "Album
Title".
Everything works fine.



Now, the WAVs made on the DDS hardware show data in "Name", "Title",
"Contributing Artists" and "Album" on Win8.
Switching to XP, "Name" is there, but "Title", "Artist" and "Album" fields
are all blank.

Unfortunately the data in the Name field is just the unhelpful Track1, track
2 stuff, so this is now useless.


So, it looks like it is the Numark Hardware that is doing something a little
strange, that Win8 can sort out but XP can't.



Cheers,


Gareth.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Gareth Magennis wrote:

> So, it looks like it is the Numark Hardware that is doing something a
> little strange, that Win8 can sort out but XP can't.

I feel better now, it annoys me when people think that the solution to all
ails is to replace windows xp because the major updates since aren't, but
there are some well placed refreshments. But we're still waiting for windows
to recognize cd-text, aren't we?

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[jason]

On Sun, 4 May 2014 11:11:18 +0100 "Peter Larsen" >
wrote in article >

>
> I feel better now, it annoys me when people think that the solution to all
> ails is to replace windows xp because the major updates since aren't, but
> there are some well placed refreshments. But we're still waiting for windows
> to recognize cd-text, aren't we?
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen

Isn't CD-text proprietary? Sony maybe?

[hank alrich]

Jason > wrote:

> On Sun, 4 May 2014 11:11:18 +0100 "Peter Larsen" >
> wrote in article >
>
> >
> > I feel better now, it annoys me when people think that the solution to all
> > ails is to replace windows xp because the major updates since aren't, but
> > there are some well placed refreshments. But we're still waiting for windows
> > to recognize cd-text, aren't we?
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Peter Larsen
>
> Isn't CD-text proprietary?

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-Text

> Sony maybe?

Sony has been involved with CD specs since before the medium was
unleashed.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Phil W[_3_]]

Jason:
> On Sun, 4 May 2014 11:11:18 +0100 "Peter Larsen" wrote:
>>
>> But we're still waiting for windows
>> to recognize cd-text, aren't we?
>>
>> Peter Larsen
>
> Isn't CD-text proprietary? Sony maybe?

It seems to be:

http://www.aesla.org/index.php/recap/73-navigating-the-disconnected-world-of-audio-metadata-april-2013
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-Text

However, there is a good number of freeware programs, that can read/write
CD-Text.

For WMP, I´ve had good results with:
http://bmproductions.fixnum.org/index.htm?http://bmproductions.fixnum.org/moreprogs/wmpcdtext.htm

Though, it does not affect Windows Explorer´s capabilities...