Recording the double strung harp

[[email protected]]

Good day. I have a harpist coming in next week. The instrument is the double strung harp, there are two rows of strings one on each side of the instrument. My thought is to have the harpist in an ambient room and use a set of mics a few feet away in an ORTF configuration perhaps with a spot mic placed nearer to the instrument. Anyone have any experience with this instrument who could suggest the best mic technique? All ideas are welcome. Thanks!

[William Sommerwerck]

You don't have to be able to play the harp to test the miking.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
> wrote:
>Good day. I have a harpist coming in next week. The instrument is the doubl=
>e strung harp, there are two rows of strings one on each side of the instru=
>ment. My thought is to have the harpist in an ambient room and use a set of=
> mics a few feet away in an ORTF configuration perhaps with a spot mic plac=
>ed nearer to the instrument. Anyone have any experience with this instrumen=
>t who could suggest the best mic technique? All ideas are welcome. Thanks!

That would be a good start. It's a good bit louder than a concert harp, but
it's still not a very quiet instrument and if you pull back in a dry room you
are going to need a very quiet room and recording chain. On the other hand,
if you go in too close you'll hear fingering noises and breathing. Go for
something in the middle.

The instrument itself has a very long decay so you can get away with a wide
range of room sound from pretty dry to pretty live.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Frank Stearns]

(Scott Dorsey) writes:

>In article >,
> > wrote:
>>Good day. I have a harpist coming in next week. The instrument is the doubl=
>>e strung harp, there are two rows of strings one on each side of the instru=
>>ment. My thought is to have the harpist in an ambient room and use a set of=
>> mics a few feet away in an ORTF configuration perhaps with a spot mic plac=
>>ed nearer to the instrument. Anyone have any experience with this instrumen=
>>t who could suggest the best mic technique? All ideas are welcome. Thanks!

>That would be a good start. It's a good bit louder than a concert harp, but
>it's still not a very quiet instrument and if you pull back in a dry room you
>are going to need a very quiet room and recording chain. On the other hand,
>if you go in too close you'll hear fingering noises and breathing. Go for
>something in the middle.

>The instrument itself has a very long decay so you can get away with a wide
>range of room sound from pretty dry to pretty live.


This is all good, +1. What I might suggest on the close mic is to get down fairly
low, about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way up from the floor, and get a directional mic
pointed down at the sounding board as close as the player will allow - 4-6" is nice
if they're okay with it. It's a bit like close-mic'ing a piano.

This approach eliminates breath and finger noises; but it does assume the harp has
been well maintained and you don't have grunts and groans from the mechanics (which
would probably be heard in your stereo pair too).

Just barely bring in that close mic during post to add a little focus. Make sure
it's time-aligned; with a very light touch of compression (1.5:1 or so, medium
attack/release, or to taste). The compression compensates for the exaggerated
dynamics so close to the instrument.

Good luck with it, let us know how it goes.

Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

> wrote:

>> Good day. I have a harpist coming in next week. The instrument is the
>double strung harp, there are two rows of strings one on each side of
>the instrument. My thought is to have the harpist in an ambient room
>and use a set of mics a few feet away in an ORTF configuration perhaps
>with a spot mic placed nearer to the instrument. Anyone have any
>experience with this instrument who could suggest the best mic
>technique? All ideas are welcome. Thanks!

One BBC training manual suggests putting the mic behind the player's
head if the pickup of mechanical noises is causing a problem. Possibly
this works in mono when the harp is part of an ensemble, but for solo
stereo I would have thought it was the mic position of last resort.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Hi,

wrote:

> Good day. I have a harpist coming in next week. The instrument is the
> double strung harp, there are two rows of strings one on each side of
> the instrument. My thought is to have the harpist in an ambient room
> and use a set of mics a few feet away in an ORTF configuration
> perhaps with a spot mic placed nearer to the instrument. Anyone have
> any experience with this instrument who could suggest the best mic
> technique? All ideas are welcome. Thanks!

you do not describe your room. Omni's would however be my choice because of
their fuller low range tone just as they are for concert grand.

The standard single row harps tend to project very well, ie. sounds close to
a semi-distant mic than they are.

My first try would be a close omni pair, say 1 foot apart and parallel in
front of the player and another omni pair further away, with most of the
sound from the "further away" pair.

If what is available is an omni pair and a cardioid pair I'd use the
cardioid pair as the close pair for optimum room definition by the distant
pair.

Frank Stearns compression suggestion gets a +1, his reasoning is to the
point and exact, it would be my first choice.

What you do in post with the actual recording, well - you'll know when
you're there, getting the track timing right matters, but the monitor mix
should in my opinion work even if it is not time-aligned properly, the
timing and indeed the compression if any, those are the icing and the
strawberries, not the entire cake.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[[email protected]]

Thanks for all the tips! I will meet with the harpist Monday to discuss the details of the recording which is to take place sometime this summer. Much appreciated!

Doug Lins

[Eberhard Sengpiel]

"Peter Larsen" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
k...
>
> you do not describe your room. Omni's would however be my choice because
> of their fuller low range tone just as they are for concert grand.
>
> The standard single row harps tend to project very well, ie. sounds close
> to a semi-distant mic than they are.
>
> My first try would be a close omni pair, say 1 foot apart and parallel in
> front of the player and another omni pair further away, with most of the
> sound from the "further away" pair.

Often I see recordings where they try do close micing of the harp's string.
Strings sound really very badly.

"Surprise - Sound doesn't come from the strings":
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/Surprise-SoundDoesNotComeOutOfTheStrings.pdf

Cheere ebs

[Frank Stearns]

"Eberhard Sengpiel" > writes:

>"Peter Larsen" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
k...
>>
>> you do not describe your room. Omni's would however be my choice because
>> of their fuller low range tone just as they are for concert grand.
>>
>> The standard single row harps tend to project very well, ie. sounds close
>> to a semi-distant mic than they are.
>>
>> My first try would be a close omni pair, say 1 foot apart and parallel in
>> front of the player and another omni pair further away, with most of the
>> sound from the "further away" pair.

>Often I see recordings where they try do close micing of the harp's string.
>Strings sound really very badly.

>"Surprise - Sound doesn't come from the strings":
>http://www.sengpielaudio.com/Surprise-SoundDoesNotComeOutOfTheStrings.pdf

This is a good guide; and the info is quite correct. My small quibble is with the
nixing of string mic'ing of the piano and using the sound holes. I mic over the
strings in a piano, but only because there's a lovely resonator surface below them.
That resonator is so relatively loud that typically you can ignore any direct
"sound" from the strings.

The holes, on the other hand, can have some weird phasing issues close up and I try
to avoid them.

YMMV.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Eberhard Sengpiel wrote:

> "Peter Larsen" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> k...

>> you do not describe your room. Omni's would however be my choice
>> because of their fuller low range tone just as they are for concert
>> grand.

>> The standard single row harps tend to project very well, ie. sounds
>> close to a semi-distant mic than they are.

>> My first try would be a close omni pair, say 1 foot apart and
>> parallel in front of the player and another omni pair further away,
>> with most of the sound from the "further away" pair.

> Often I see recordings where they try do close micing of the harp's
> string. Strings sound really very badly.

Ah yes, close is perhaps 4 feet from the harp.

> "Surprise - Sound doesn't come from the strings":
> http://www.sengpielaudio.com/Surprise-SoundDoesNotComeOutOfTheStrings.pdf

The order of magnitude of the size of the instrument away from it is often a
good first guess.

> Cheere ebs

Kind regards

Peter Larsen