Old tape snapped on wind

[Luxey]

I'm transfering some old tapes. Mostly they are 19cm/s (7.5in/s), but there are
some at 9.5cm/s and evn at 4.75cm/s

I was listening to one, in order to get familliar, listening -winding -...-...,
and at one point it just snapped. Inside the plastic reel it was like glued to
the 'body"of the rest of the tape. It took me some time to peel release the front
lid.

In general, what can I do to prevent this, appart from playing it on regular
speed all the way through?

Funny thing, I've transfered loads of tapes, even some that looked far worse
than this one, but this was the first time this infamous problem occured on me.

[Luxey]

It's regular "domestic" 1/4in tape.

[hank alrich]

Luxey > wrote:

> It's regular "domestic" 1/4in tape.

What brand, what model #, and from when?

In general with old tape you don't want to fast wind/rewind at all until
you have played it all the way through at its designated playback speed
to determine that it's in good enough shape to withstand faster winding.

Also, decks vary considerably in their ability to handle tape
delicately. Many might have snapped the tape regardless of velocity of
tape motion.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Luxey]

Unfortunately, it's undeterminable. There are various tapes in all shades of
brown, from almost yellow to almost black. This particular one, I think, was some
BASF, rather dark in colour.

Yes, play them on regular speed, but that's exactly what I do not want to do,
waste hours. In the end, I'll just transfer them without listening and listen
afterwards. Problem is there are some paralel recordings, different things on 1-4
than on 2-3, different speeds on same tape along the way, and so on. Each
possible combination ...

[Rick Ruskin]

On Wed, 26 Mar 2014 14:07:22 -0700 (PDT), Luxey >
wrote:

>I'm transfering some old tapes. Mostly they are 19cm/s (7.5in/s), but there are
>some at 9.5cm/s and evn at 4.75cm/s
>
>I was listening to one, in order to get familliar, listening -winding -...-...,
>and at one point it just snapped. Inside the plastic reel it was like glued to
>the 'body"of the rest of the tape. It took me some time to peel release the front
>lid.
>
>In general, what can I do to prevent this, appart from playing it on regular
>speed all the way through?
>
>Funny thing, I've transfered loads of tapes, even some that looked far worse
>than this one, but this was the first time this infamous problem occured on me.

If it snapped clean without stretching, it's acetate and is very
brittle. Moral: don't fast wind. Play it all onto new media and edit
that. Otherwise, this will happen again.

[Scott Dorsey]

Luxey > wrote:
>I'm transfering some old tapes. Mostly they are 19cm/s (7.5in/s), but there are
>some at 9.5cm/s and evn at 4.75cm/s
>
>I was listening to one, in order to get familliar, listening -winding -...-...,
>and at one point it just snapped. Inside the plastic reel it was like glued to
>the 'body"of the rest of the tape. It took me some time to peel release the front
>lid.
>
>In general, what can I do to prevent this, appart from playing it on regular
>speed all the way through?

It's acetate tape and it's starting to curl. Read Peter Copeland's _Manual
of Analogue Sound Restoration Techniques_ on the subject of acetate tape.

And don't try to play old delicate acetate tapes on a 440 or some similar
high-tension broadcast deck.

>Funny thing, I've transfered loads of tapes, even some that looked far worse
>than this one, but this was the first time this infamous problem occured on me.

Were they acetate or polyester? Did they have gummy splices?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Luxey]

четвртак, 27. март 2014. 01.32.09 UTC+1, Rick Ruskin је написао/ла:
> On Wed, 26 Mar 2014 14:07:22 -0700 (PDT), Luxey >
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I'm transfering some old tapes. Mostly they are 19cm/s (7.5in/s), but there are
>
> >some at 9.5cm/s and evn at 4.75cm/s
>
> >
>
> >I was listening to one, in order to get familliar, listening -winding -....-...,
>
> >and at one point it just snapped. Inside the plastic reel it was like glued to
>
> >the 'body"of the rest of the tape. It took me some time to peel release the front
>
> >lid.
>
> >
>
> >In general, what can I do to prevent this, appart from playing it on regular
>
> >speed all the way through?
>
> >
>
> >Funny thing, I've transfered loads of tapes, even some that looked far worse
>
> >than this one, but this was the first time this infamous problem occured on me.
>
>
>
> If it snapped clean without stretching, it's acetate and is very
>
> brittle. Moral: don't fast wind. Play it all onto new media and edit
>
> that. Otherwise, this will happen again.

I did not spot obvious stretching but both ends were left with clear "seethrough" spots. I don't know if they would complement if layed one over another, or the emulsion just dropped off.

[Luxey]

четвртак, 27. март 2014. 01.39.14 UTC+1, Scott Dorsey је написао/ла:
> Luxey > wrote:
>
> >I'm transfering some old tapes. Mostly they are 19cm/s (7.5in/s), but there are
>
> >some at 9.5cm/s and evn at 4.75cm/s
>
> >
>
> >I was listening to one, in order to get familliar, listening -winding -....-...,
>
> >and at one point it just snapped. Inside the plastic reel it was like glued to
>
> >the 'body"of the rest of the tape. It took me some time to peel release the front
>
> >lid.
>
> >
>
> >In general, what can I do to prevent this, appart from playing it on regular
>
> >speed all the way through?
>
>
>
> It's acetate tape and it's starting to curl. Read Peter Copeland's _Manual
>
> of Analogue Sound Restoration Techniques_ on the subject of acetate tape.
>
>
>
> And don't try to play old delicate acetate tapes on a 440 or some similar
>
> high-tension broadcast deck.
>
>
>
> >Funny thing, I've transfered loads of tapes, even some that looked far worse
>
> >than this one, but this was the first time this infamous problem occured on me.
>
>
>
> Were they acetate or polyester? Did they have gummy splices?
>
> --scott
>
>
>
> --
>
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I don't know really. They are from like 1975 - 1985 period. I guess acetate was gonne by that time?

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Luxey wrote:

>> Were they acetate or polyester? Did they have gummy splices?

> I don't know really. They are from like 1975 - 1985 period. I guess
> acetate was gonne by that time?

Yes. Also Acetate is clear when seen from the side as I remember the lore.
You have encountered a tape with dread sticktion. Those M_U_S_T be baked
prior to attempting anything. A fruit dryer is excellent for it, I think the
recommendation is 50 degrees centigrade for a couple of days.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Scott Dorsey]

Luxey > wrote:
>> Were they acetate or polyester? Did they have gummy splices?
>
>I don't know really. They are from like 1975 - 1985 period. I guess acetate=
> was gonne by that time?

Mostly, although there was still some real junk being sold into the consumer
market. There were even some companies selling PVC-based tapes for home
recording, and that stuff just fell apart.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Peter Larsen > wrote:
>Luxey wrote:
>
>>> Were they acetate or polyester? Did they have gummy splices?
>
>> I don't know really. They are from like 1975 - 1985 period. I guess
>> acetate was gonne by that time?
>
>Yes. Also Acetate is clear when seen from the side as I remember the lore.
>You have encountered a tape with dread sticktion. Those M_U_S_T be baked
>prior to attempting anything. A fruit dryer is excellent for it, I think the
>recommendation is 50 degrees centigrade for a couple of days.

Not necessarily.

If it's a backcoated mastering tape that has gone gummy, baking is a good
thing. If it's an acetate tape, baking will destroy it very quickly.
But both can stick to a layer below.

There are plenty of other failure modes, Copeland's book is a pretty good
reference about them.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."