[basic] pc audio out to amp 1/4 to speakers

[Harry Putnam]

I suppose this is pretty basic stuff and probably a bit lame for this
group but hopefully it will fit in somewhere.

Summary:
Setup: Laptop pc with normal earphone out plug.
M-audio BX5a monitors
(Also have M-audio Fasttrack pro but wish to exclude it)

Price range for amp: Up to $130 or so.

I wan to get my computer output to a midrange(price) amplifier.

The amp needs to have 1/4 TRS out holes for M-Audio BX5a Monitors.
The monitors have both trs and XLR inputs. I prefer to use 1/4 trs
since I have plenty.

It would also be handy if the Amp had a 1/8 stereo in jack to
accommodate the computer out wire. But I suppose there are adapters.

------- --------- ---=--- --------- --------

Details:
I want to adapt the stereo out from pc to input for an amplifier.

Looking at a number of amps on line, but I'm finding it difficult to
tell just how the hookups work.

It would simplify things for me, if the amp had builtin TRS 1/4 out
jacks. Seems not many of the amps I've found have that... in fact
none so far.

Failing to find an amp with trs 1/4 out jacks, I guess some kind of
adaptor from whatever output the amp has, to something with a 1/4 trs
peg on the end of it would do.

I'm just to green at doing any of the mechanical hook up to know what
I need to do what I've proposed.

Hopefully some of you will know of an amp in my price range (up to $130)
and will either know of an amp with TRS 1/4 out jacks or know how to
adapt rca or whatever the amp uses to a trs 1/4 in on the speakers.

[PStamler]

You don't need an amp. The M-audio BX5a has amplifiers built in.

All you need is an adapter cable. One end should have a 1/8" stereo plug (to plug into the computer), the other should have two 1/4" TS plugs (to plug into the speakers). Radio Shack should have what you need.

Peace,
Paul

[PStamler]

On Tuesday, January 14, 2014 11:38:49 AM UTC-6, PStamler wrote:
> You don't need an amp. The M-audio BX5a has amplifiers built in.
>
>
>
> All you need is an adapter cable. One end should have a 1/8" stereo plug (to plug into the computer), the other should have two 1/4" TS plugs (to plug into the speakers). Radio Shack should have what you need.
>
>
>
> Peace,
>
> Paul

Oh, and you'll probably need a 1/4" female > 1/4" male extension cable to run from one speaker to the other. So you'll have a 1/8" stereo M > 2 x 1/4" TS going to the left speaker. One of the TS plugs will plug into that speaker's 1/4" input; the other will plug into the extension cable. The other end of the extension cable will plug into the right speaker.

Peace,
Paul

[UnsteadyKen]

Harry Putnam wrote...

> I want to adapt the stereo out from pc to input for an amplifier.
>
I may be missing the point here, but your speakers are active, that is,
they already have amplifiers built in, all you need is to get the line
level audio from the 3.5mm stereo output on the PC to the TRS/XLR
inputs on the speakers which can be done with a suitable length of
cable like this example
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/43805-stagg-3m-10ft-3-5mm-to-2-x-
jack-lead.html

Short link:http://goo.gl/Q43qe5


--
UnsteadyKen

[Scott Dorsey]

Harry Putnam > wrote:
>I suppose this is pretty basic stuff and probably a bit lame for this
>group but hopefully it will fit in somewhere.
>
>Summary:
>Setup: Laptop pc with normal earphone out plug.
> M-audio BX5a monitors
> (Also have M-audio Fasttrack pro but wish to exclude it)
>
>Price range for amp: Up to $130 or so.
>
>I wan to get my computer output to a midrange(price) amplifier.
>
>The amp needs to have 1/4 TRS out holes for M-Audio BX5a Monitors.
>The monitors have both trs and XLR inputs. I prefer to use 1/4 trs
>since I have plenty.

Those are active speakers, you don't need any amp. You just need a
3.5mm trs to dual 1/4 ts cable.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[gareth magennis]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ...

Harry Putnam > wrote:
>I suppose this is pretty basic stuff and probably a bit lame for this
>group but hopefully it will fit in somewhere.
>
>Summary:
>Setup: Laptop pc with normal earphone out plug.
> M-audio BX5a monitors
> (Also have M-audio Fasttrack pro but wish to exclude it)
>
>Price range for amp: Up to $130 or so.
>
>I wan to get my computer output to a midrange(price) amplifier.
>
>The amp needs to have 1/4 TRS out holes for M-Audio BX5a Monitors.
>The monitors have both trs and XLR inputs. I prefer to use 1/4 trs
>since I have plenty.

Those are active speakers, you don't need any amp. You just need a
3.5mm trs to dual 1/4 ts cable.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."



Alternatively, get some of these, then you can use any of the pile of stereo
RCA cables you probably have lying around, that came free with audio gear,
to do most of the interconnect jobs you are likely to find for them.

http://www.disco-world.co.uk/accessories-c1/connectors-c12/con003-3-5mm-s-jack-to-2-phono-sockets-p24.html?gclid=CJudhNCz_rsCFZGWtAodRBoA7A

http://www.amazon.co.uk/6-35mm-inch-Phono-Socket-Adaptors/dp/B008F7T2XQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1389728030&sr=8-2&keywords=phono+to+jack+mono



Gareth.

[gareth magennis]

Actually, due to the weight of adaptor and cables, and the fact it's a
laptop, this is a better bet.

http://www.clickshop.com/product/4080/35mm-jack-to-2x-rca-phono-female-audio-cable/50cm/#fo_c=238&fo_k=6a6a8a1aac74f147a33679a8680556e3&fo_s=gplauk


It's good to think modular sometimes, particularly with live sound.



Gareth.

[Harry Putnam]

PStamler > writes:

> You don't need an amp. The M-audio BX5a has amplifiers built in.
>
> All you need is an adapter cable. One end should have a 1/8" stereo
> plug (to plug into the computer), the other should have two 1/4" TS
> plugs (to plug into the speakers). Radio Shack should have what you
> need.

Well thanks, aside from feeling pretty stupid... its nice the way it came
out. At least I got away with only looking like a fool, whereas I
could have looked like a fool AND threw away some money too?

[John Williamson]

On 14/01/2014 20:03, Harry Putnam wrote:
> PStamler > writes:
>
>> You don't need an amp. The M-audio BX5a has amplifiers built in.
>>
>> All you need is an adapter cable. One end should have a 1/8" stereo
>> plug (to plug into the computer), the other should have two 1/4" TS
>> plugs (to plug into the speakers). Radio Shack should have what you
>> need.
>
> Well thanks, aside from feeling pretty stupid... its nice the way it came
> out. At least I got away with only looking like a fool, whereas I
> could have looked like a fool AND threw away some money too?
>
One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you
might try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their
internal sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to the
digital parts.

Like this one:-

http://www.westenddj.co.uk/Product/CREATIVE/Production/0204USB/

They're a UK supplier just down the road from me, but I'm sure similar
units can be had more cheaply where you are. Others are available from
twenty bucks or so upwards. Almost all of them will sound better than a
laptops's built in sound.

Use it with your fixed speakers, and also to drive headphones while
you're out and about.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[hank alrich]

Harry Putnam > wrote:

> I suppose this is pretty basic stuff and probably a bit lame for this
> group but hopefully it will fit in somewhere.
>
> Summary:
> Setup: Laptop pc with normal earphone out plug.
> M-audio BX5a monitors
> (Also have M-audio Fasttrack pro but wish to exclude it)

Harry, those are powered speakers. The amps are built in. You don't need
another amp. I'd most likely prefer the convertors in the Fast Track to
those in your laptop. Hook the Fast Track to the speakers, and go.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Harry Putnam wrote:

> PStamler > writes:

>> You don't need an amp. The M-audio BX5a has amplifiers built in.

>> All you need is an adapter cable. One end should have a 1/8" stereo
>> plug (to plug into the computer), the other should have two 1/4" TS
>> plugs (to plug into the speakers). Radio Shack should have what you
>> need.

> Well thanks, aside from feeling pretty stupid... its nice the way it
> came out. At least I got away with only looking like a fool, whereas I
> could have looked like a fool AND threw away some money too?

NOBODY, absolutely nobody here in this here newsgroup have EVER made any
erroneous purchase of any kind WHATSOEVER.

O;-)

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Bill[_20_]]

In message >, John Williamson
> writes
>One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you
>might try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their
>internal sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to
>the digital parts.

I think the OP said that he already has an m-audio device, but doesn't
want to use it. I'm not sure why.

Either way, no-one should be surprised if hooking a laptop up to
anything decent produces audio on a bed of shash. It might be worth
checking out suppliers of audio transformers in a box in case this
happens.
--
Bill

[Harry Putnam]

Bill > writes:

> In message >, John Williamson
> > writes
>> One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you
>> might try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their
>> internal sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to
>> the digital parts.
>
> I think the OP said that he already has an m-audio device, but doesn't
> want to use it. I'm not sure why.

See below where I try to explain my reasoning

> Either way, no-one should be surprised if hooking a laptop up to
> anything decent produces audio on a bed of shash. It might be worth
> checking out suppliers of audio transformers in a box in case this
> happens.

"Peter Larsen" > writes:


[...]

>> Well thanks, aside from feeling pretty stupid... its nice the way it
>> came out. At least I got away with only looking like a fool, whereas I
>> could have looked like a fool AND threw away some money too?
>
> NOBODY, absolutely nobody here in this here newsgroup have EVER made any
> erroneous purchase of any kind WHATSOEVER.

Ummmhuh, tongue firmly planted in cheek...


(hank alrich) writes:

> Harry Putnam > wrote:
>
>> I suppose this is pretty basic stuff and probably a bit lame for this
>> group but hopefully it will fit in somewhere.
>>
>> Summary:
>> Setup: Laptop pc with normal earphone out plug.
>> M-audio BX5a monitors
>> (Also have M-audio Fasttrack pro but wish to exclude it)
>
> Harry, those are powered speakers. The amps are built in. You don't need
> another amp. I'd most likely prefer the convertors in the Fast Track to
> those in your laptop. Hook the Fast Track to the speakers, and go.

OK, let me try to explain about the FastTrack. You all have taken the
trouble to try to help me out so here is my feeble excuses about the
FastTrack.

I've used the fast track for a good while... originally on an older P4
PC that had the ...audio...`97. onboard the mobo (can't recall the
full name). There the FastTrack was great.

But, I got a (by that time periods standard) a powerfull new (8GB ram)
Sager NP8760. That has some kind of nasty audio setup (I'll include
the audio specs below), that renders recording from the system, like
streaming audio or the like a real problem.

The only way I found to work was to record from the builtin mic and of
course that grabs any other noise, fans etc and means a terrible
recording. (The laptop is a bit loud on its own).

My son gave me the FastTrack and I've had nothing but trouble ever
since.

As you might know, the FastTrack does not supply any way to record
from the PC as source either. I've posted about it on M-audio forums
a few times and never really figured out how to use the FastTrak to
record 'what you hear'.

Finally, I found something called `Sound-tap' from NCH software, that
gets into the OS kernel sound processing and taps in before it gets to
any audio tools. Or at least that is how I understand it.

But back to why I was ditching the FastTrack.

When I setup the fasttrack as default for playback It causes grief
like total freeze up if I monkey around and try to use the builtin
sound as default for whatever reason.

When using FastTrack as default, certain online videos will just stop
randomly and freeze the browser, and even the OS at inexplicable (to
me) times.

No switching back and forth without a full reboot.

------- --------- ---=--- --------- --------

After discovering `Sound tap' and seeing the replies here, I'm now
thinking to use `Sound Tap' if I want to record 'what you hear', and
just leave the FastTrack + BX5a monitors, as full time default
playback.... and see how it goes.

------- --------- ---=--- --------- --------

Some specs from the laptop; this was collected with a tool called
AIDA64 that is what became of the Everest tools once available for
dredging out system information.

I can assure you that this is probably more information than you ever
dreamed possible and this is just the audio stuff. I can also assure
you, no matter how many lines of txt it takes to describe... overall
it sucks.

------- --------- ---=--- --------- --------
------- --------- ---=--- --------- --------

Windows Audio

Device Identifier Device Description
midi-out.0 0001 001B Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth
mixer.0 0001 0068 Speakers (Realtek High Definiti
mixer.1 0001 0068 Realtek Digital Output (Realtek
mixer.2 0001 0068 Microphone (Realtek High Defini
wave-in.0 0001 0065 Microphone (Realtek High Defini
wave-out.0 0001 0064 Speakers (Realtek High Definiti
wave-out.1 0001 0064 Realtek Digital Output (Realtek

------- --------- ---=--- --------- --------

PCI / PnP Audio

Device Description Type

ATI Radeon HDMI @ ATI Juniper/Broadway - High Definition Audio
Controller PCI

Realtek ALC888 @ Intel Ibex Peak PCH - High Definition Audio
Controller PCI

------- --------- ---=--- --------- --------
HD Audio

[ ATI Juniper/Broadway - High Definition Audio Controller ]

Device Properties:

Device Description: ATI Juniper/Broadway - High Definition Audio
Controller
Device Description(Windows): High Definition Audio Controller
Bus Type: PCI
Device ID: 1002-AA58
Subsystem ID: 1558-8687
Revision: 00
Hardware ID PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_AA58&SUBSYS_86871558&REV_00

------- --------- ---=--- --------- --------

[ ATI Radeon HDMI ]

Device Properties:
Device Description: ATI Radeon HDMI
Device Description (Win): High Definition Audio Device
Device Type: Audio
Bus Type: HDAUDIO
Device ID: 1002-AA01
Subsystem ID:00AA-0100
Revision: 1002
Hardware ID:HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_1002&DEV_AA01&SUBSYS_00AA0100&REV_1002
------- --------- ---=--- --------- --------

[ Intel Ibex Peak PCH - High Definition Audio Controller ]

Device Properties:
Device Description: Intel Ibex Peak PCH - High Definition Audio

Device Description(Win): High Definition Audio Controller
Bus Type: PCI
Device ID: 8086-3B56
Subsystem ID: 1558-8687
Revision: 06
Hardware ID: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_3B56&SUBSYS_86871558&REV_06

------- --------- ---=--- --------- --------

[ Motorola Si3054 ]

Device Properties:
Device Description:Motorola Si3054
Device Description (Win): Motorola SM56 Data Fax Modem
Device Type: Modem
Bus Type: HDAUDIO
Device ID: 1057-3055
Subsystem ID: 0030-5557
Revision: 1009
Hardware ID:HDAUDIO\FUNC_02&VEN_1057&DEV_3055&SUBSYS_00305557&REV_1009

------- --------- ---=--- --------- --------

[ Realtek ALC888/1200 ]

Device Properties:
Device Description: Realtek ALC888/1200
Device Description (Win):Realtek High Definition Audio
Device Type: Audio
Bus Type: HDAUDIO
Device ID: 10EC-0888
Subsystem ID: 1558-8689
Revision: 1002
Hardware ID:HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0888&SUBSYS_15588689&REV_1002

[Harry Putnam]

John Williamson > writes:

> One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you
> might try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their
> internal sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to
> the digital parts.
>
> Like this one:-
>
> http://www.westenddj.co.uk/Product/CREATIVE/Production/0204USB/

Is that thing pretty similar to FastTrack Pro?

Would I be able to record 'what you hear' with it?

[Scott Dorsey]

Peter Larsen > wrote:
>Harry Putnam wrote:
>
>> PStamler > writes:
>
>>> You don't need an amp. The M-audio BX5a has amplifiers built in.
>
>>> All you need is an adapter cable. One end should have a 1/8" stereo
>>> plug (to plug into the computer), the other should have two 1/4" TS
>>> plugs (to plug into the speakers). Radio Shack should have what you
>>> need.
>
>> Well thanks, aside from feeling pretty stupid... its nice the way it
>> came out. At least I got away with only looking like a fool, whereas I
>> could have looked like a fool AND threw away some money too?
>
>NOBODY, absolutely nobody here in this here newsgroup have EVER made any
>erroneous purchase of any kind WHATSOEVER.

And, all things considered... go out and buy an Adcom 555. You don't need
it now, but someday you'll need it for something, and when that someday
comes it'll be more expensive than it is now.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Tobiah]

On 01/15/2014 08:30 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Peter Larsen > wrote:
>> Harry Putnam wrote:
>>
>>> PStamler > writes:
>>
>>>> You don't need an amp. The M-audio BX5a has amplifiers built in.
>>
>>>> All you need is an adapter cable. One end should have a 1/8" stereo
>>>> plug (to plug into the computer), the other should have two 1/4" TS
>>>> plugs (to plug into the speakers). Radio Shack should have what you
>>>> need.
>>
>>> Well thanks, aside from feeling pretty stupid... its nice the way it
>>> came out. At least I got away with only looking like a fool, whereas I
>>> could have looked like a fool AND threw away some money too?
>>
>> NOBODY, absolutely nobody here in this here newsgroup have EVER made any
>> erroneous purchase of any kind WHATSOEVER.
>
> And, all things considered... go out and buy an Adcom 555. You don't need
> it now, but someday you'll need it for something, and when that someday
> comes it'll be more expensive than it is now.
> --scott
>

Repeat after me: Electronics are poor investment items :)

[John Williamson]

On 15/01/2014 15:49, Harry Putnam wrote:
> John Williamson > writes:
>
>> One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you
>> might try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their
>> internal sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to
>> the digital parts.
>>
>> Like this one:-
>>
>> http://www.westenddj.co.uk/Product/CREATIVE/Production/0204USB/
>
> Is that thing pretty similar to FastTrack Pro?
>
As I've never used a FastTrack Pro, I couldn't tell you. It's a USB
connected sound interface which will let you record from analogue
sources and play back digital sound to an external sound reproduction
system with high quality. These devices are now normally bundled with
driver software for Windows 7, 8 and Macintosh computers. Some may have
drivers for XP available as well.

The specification says it lacks some features present in the FastTrack
Pro, but will work at a higher sample rate.

> Would I be able to record 'what you hear' with it?
>
Recording "what you hear" is a movable feast. If you mean recording what
you hear coming out of the laptop speakers, how is this being generated?
DAW software will mix a multitrack session down to stereo and write the
result to a file on your HD or any other data storage medium. If you
want to record streaming audio off the internet, as you have found,
there are applications that do that, too. These have the advantage that
the sound is never rendered as analogue between the source and the
output. If you mean recording what you hear in the room, then a pair of
microphones and the interface will do the job.

Reading your other post describing the problems you have with the
FastTrack, they may be caused by faulty Realtek drivers, and I have had
bad experiences with Realtek drivers in the past. Your computer uses the
same chipset as a computer that I have sitting in a cupboard here, and
getting the Realtek sound to work at all was a long battle involving
downloading drivers from the Realtek website as against the computer
maker's modified version, and disabling and re-installing a Windows
subsystem. All this had to be done in the right order, and once it was
done, the Realtek chipset and drivers would co-exist with an external
USB soundcard with no problems.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Harry Putnam]

(Scott Dorsey) writes:

> Peter Larsen > wrote:
>>Harry Putnam wrote:
>>
>>> PStamler > writes:
>>
>>>> You don't need an amp. The M-audio BX5a has amplifiers built in.
>>
>>>> All you need is an adapter cable. One end should have a 1/8" stereo
>>>> plug (to plug into the computer), the other should have two 1/4" TS
>>>> plugs (to plug into the speakers). Radio Shack should have what you
>>>> need.
>>
>>> Well thanks, aside from feeling pretty stupid... its nice the way it
>>> came out. At least I got away with only looking like a fool, whereas I
>>> could have looked like a fool AND threw away some money too?
>>
>>NOBODY, absolutely nobody here in this here newsgroup have EVER made any
>>erroneous purchase of any kind WHATSOEVER.
>
> And, all things considered... go out and buy an Adcom 555. You don't need
> it now, but someday you'll need it for something, and when that someday
> comes it'll be more expensive than it is now.

Is that in 1967 dollars? ;)

[Harry Putnam]

John Williamson > writes:

[...]

>>> Like this one:-
>>>
>>> http://www.westenddj.co.uk/Product/CREATIVE/Production/0204USB/
>>

Harry asked:
>> Is that thing pretty similar to FastTrack Pro?

John replied:
> As I've never used a FastTrack Pro, I couldn't tell you. It's a USB
> connected sound interface which will let you record from analogue
> sources and play back digital sound to an external sound reproduction
> system with high quality. These devices are now normally bundled with
> driver software for Windows 7, 8 and Macintosh computers. Some may
> have drivers for XP available as well.
>
> The specification says it lacks some features present in the FastTrack
> Pro, but will work at a higher sample rate.
>
>> Would I be able to record 'what you hear' with it?
>>

[...]

Thanks, you answered both questions nicely. By `what you hear', with
the quotes I meant the term to be understood as what you run into on
google when the question is about recording on a computer. You find it
a lot in the docs google finds.

In my case I really meant something even narrower... `streaming'
audio/video. which is the only thing I've found I wanted to record
from my computer. Certain tutorials I've run across... that sort of
stuff.

You say, what comes out my PC speakers, but I guess what I was after
in an external sound interface when I got hold of the FastTrack was to
get at the sound before it comes out the speakers.

I guess I thought that would happen thru the USB connection.

But anyway, like you mentioned, there is software for that. I found
`sound-tap', are there others that grab the audio before its processed
much?

[John Williamson]

On 15/01/2014 20:58, Harry Putnam wrote:

> But anyway, like you mentioned, there is software for that. I found
> `sound-tap', are there others that grab the audio before its processed
> much?
>
If you're streaming it from the 'Net, it's likely to already have been
processed into a fairly low bit rate compressed format before you even
see it. For instance, the music on my website, which I use to give
clients a preview of their mix, is normally mp3 at about 256k. If they
like it, they then get it on USB sticks, CD or DVD at whatever bit depth
and sample rate we agree. A lot of the internet radio streams I've
listened to have only been available at 64kbps mono.

For what it's worth, I use Firefox browser with the Freecorder plugin
for most sites, and there's a paid for one called Replay Media Catcher,
which seemed reasonable when I tried the free version a while ago.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/15/2014 3:58 PM, Harry Putnam wrote:
> In my case I really meant something even narrower... `streaming'
> audio/video. which is the only thing I've found I wanted to record
> from my computer. Certain tutorials I've run across... that sort of
> stuff.


I use a program called Total Recorder for that. I understand that there
are a few others that do the same thing, some free, some not.

The "Record what you hear" thing was, and perhaps still is a feature of
some audio hardware and its drivers. It's an option that appears in the
Windows mixer applet (the thing that pops up when you double-click the
loudspeaker icon in the task bar). Either you have it or you don't. But
it does just what you're looking for. It's usually not a feature of
"pro" audio interfaces like the Fast Track. I've seen it on others'
computers, but never on one of mine.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> On 1/15/2014 3:58 PM, Harry Putnam wrote:

>> In my case I really meant something even narrower... `streaming'
>> audio/video. which is the only thing I've found I wanted to record
>> from my computer. Certain tutorials I've run across... that sort of
>> stuff.

> I use a program called Total Recorder for that. I understand that
> there are a few others that do the same thing, some free, some not.

> The "Record what you hear" thing was, and perhaps still is a feature
> of some audio hardware and its drivers.

Midiman - M-Audio - removed in in driver updates, my old 2007 HP laptop had
it ex works, this here Optiplex 745 doesn't have it, I think some copyright
owner pressure has caused it.

It's an option that appears
> in the Windows mixer applet (the thing that pops up when you
> double-click the loudspeaker icon in the task bar). Either you have
> it or you don't. But it does just what you're looking for. It's
> usually not a feature of "pro" audio interfaces like the Fast Track.

It is in the version of Midimans drivers for the 2496 and 1010LT I use.

> I've seen it on others' computers, but never on one of mine.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Bill[_20_]]

In message >, Harry Putnam
> writes
>Finally, I found something called `Sound-tap' from NCH software, that
>gets into the OS kernel sound processing and taps in before it gets to
>any audio tools. Or at least that is how I understand it.

I see that I seem to have 'Sound Tap' on this machine that I'm typing
on, but when I go to open it, it says the trial period has expired. This
implies that I tried it for one of my (laughingly called) "clients" and
was not impressed. I don't like the way today it repeatedly tried to get
me to install an extra toolbar.

I use "Total Recorder", which is relatively inexpensive and has always
worked well for me on a variety of machines and OS's over the years.
I've just installed it on this machine as a test and it registered
without fuss.

I think a lot of laptops have problems with usb audio devices because
the bioses are very limited and there may be clashes with the,
particularly wireless, networking. That said, I have always managed to
get the variety here going. This includes a Fast Track (not pro, and not
very good). I can't try it at this minute, but my Edirol UA-4FX has a
'loopback' setting as well as handy phono connectors that allow the
audio to be looped round with simple cables.
I certainly think that life is too short to have to be pratting about
with this nonsense, but here with usb audio, I have usually managed to
get things stable by fiddling with settings under acpi power management
(may be under batteries in Device Manager), anti-virus software( eg
Microsoft Security Essentials) and whatever networking that is not
actually being used.
--
Bill

[Harry Putnam]

First off: Once again I want to thank all the posters on this
thread... its helped quite a lot.

Bill > writes:

> In message >, Harry Putnam
> > writes
>> Finally, I found something called `Sound-tap' from NCH software,
>> that gets into the OS kernel sound processing and taps in before it
>> gets to any audio tools. Or at least that is how I understand it.
>
> I see that I seem to have 'Sound Tap' on this machine that I'm typing
> on, but when I go to open it, it says the trial period has
> expired. This implies that I tried it for one of my (laughingly
> called) "clients" and was not impressed. I don't like the way today it
> repeatedly tried to get me to install an extra toolbar.

Yeah that stuff sucks... But you can avoid it all if you are very
careful during install and actually read all the little crap that
comes up... you can deny to install that stuff. But it is not easy to
catch it all.

> I use "Total Recorder", which is relatively inexpensive and has always
> worked well for me on a variety of machines and OS's over the
> years. I've just installed it on this machine as a test and it
> registered without fuss.

Interesting. I had a very similar, really nearly identical experience
but it was Total Recorder that was the fall guy.

I never could get it working. I never found the 'proper' device to
make it record streaming audio, or anything else emitting sound on my
computer. Same kind of thing applies to apps like Audacity. I think
perhaps on this laptop there just is no 'proper' device. I've tried
too many audio applications and walked my way thru all devices offered
at 'Control Panel/sound'.

It is my (very limited) understanding that Sound Tap somehow creates
or uses a virtual kernel driver to access sound before it gets to any
devices. But I may have that all wrong.

I just did uninstall Total Recorder a few days ago having had the same
thing happen to me. I pressed its icon and up came a warning saying
the trial had expired. Then I remembered having wrestled with it some
time ago.

> I think a lot of laptops have problems with usb audio devices because
> the bioses are very limited and there may be clashes with the,
> particularly wireless, networking. That said, I have always managed to
> get the variety here going. This includes a Fast Track (not pro, and
> not very good). I can't try it at this minute, but my Edirol UA-4FX
> has a 'loopback' setting as well as handy phono connectors that allow
> the audio to be looped round with simple cables.

> I certainly think that life is too short to have to be pratting about
> with this nonsense, but here with usb audio, I have usually managed to
> get things stable by fiddling with settings under acpi power
> management (may be under batteries in Device Manager), anti-virus
> software( eg Microsoft Security Essentials) and whatever networking
> that is not actually being used.

Those laptop problem are apparently what have stumped me far as
recording what ever I hear on the computer. I'm not smart enough to
figure out how to get around it on my laptop.

I have had no real trouble just getting FastTrack going to listen to.
Its just that it does not seem to offer any way to record whatever I'm
hearing on the computer. Perhaps it has some kind of `loopback'
feature. I know it has to 1/4 trs in jacks that are called 'inserts`
but the manual makes it sound like that is something to do with adding
stuff to exising sound mix coming thru.

Now 'sound-tap' has solved that problem for me, and it offers to save
recordings in *.wav. Something some other recorders do not do. If I
remember 'Total Recorder' was one of those that didn't.

If you want to do anything but just record... then 'Sound-tap' will not
be enough. But I have high-level tools like Audition and Sound-Forge
to use once I have a wav file. It does mean an extra step in there
but that seems worth it since I don't have to keep dicking around
fiddling with devices and whatever which constantly means a reboot,
usually right in the middle of ongoing work.

[Bill[_20_]]

In message >, Harry Putnam
> writes
>First off: Once again I want to thank all the posters on this
>thread... its helped quite a lot.
>
>Bill > writes:
>
>> In message >, Harry Putnam
>> > writes
>>> Finally, I found something called `Sound-tap' from NCH software,
>>> that gets into the OS kernel sound processing and taps in before it
>>> gets to any audio tools. Or at least that is how I understand it.
>>
>> I see that I seem to have 'Sound Tap' on this machine that I'm typing
>> on, but when I go to open it, it says the trial period has
>> expired. This implies that I tried it for one of my (laughingly
>> called) "clients" and was not impressed. I don't like the way today it
>> repeatedly tried to get me to install an extra toolbar.
>
>Yeah that stuff sucks... But you can avoid it all if you are very
>careful during install and actually read all the little crap that
>comes up... you can deny to install that stuff. But it is not easy to
>catch it all.
>
>> I use "Total Recorder", which is relatively inexpensive and has always
>> worked well for me on a variety of machines and OS's over the
>> years. I've just installed it on this machine as a test and it
>> registered without fuss.
>
>Interesting. I had a very similar, really nearly identical experience
>but it was Total Recorder that was the fall guy.
>
>I never could get it working. I never found the 'proper' device to
>make it record streaming audio, or anything else emitting sound on my
>computer. Same kind of thing applies to apps like Audacity. I think
>perhaps on this laptop there just is no 'proper' device. I've tried
>too many audio applications and walked my way thru all devices offered
>at 'Control Panel/sound'.
>
>It is my (very limited) understanding that Sound Tap somehow creates
>or uses a virtual kernel driver to access sound before it gets to any
>devices. But I may have that all wrong.
>
>I just did uninstall Total Recorder a few days ago having had the same
>thing happen to me. I pressed its icon and up came a warning saying
>the trial had expired. Then I remembered having wrestled with it some
>time ago.
>
>> I think a lot of laptops have problems with usb audio devices because
>> the bioses are very limited and there may be clashes with the,
>> particularly wireless, networking. That said, I have always managed to
>> get the variety here going. This includes a Fast Track (not pro, and
>> not very good). I can't try it at this minute, but my Edirol UA-4FX
>> has a 'loopback' setting as well as handy phono connectors that allow
>> the audio to be looped round with simple cables.
>
>> I certainly think that life is too short to have to be pratting about
>> with this nonsense, but here with usb audio, I have usually managed to
>> get things stable by fiddling with settings under acpi power
>> management (may be under batteries in Device Manager), anti-virus
>> software( eg Microsoft Security Essentials) and whatever networking
>> that is not actually being used.
>
>Those laptop problem are apparently what have stumped me far as
>recording what ever I hear on the computer. I'm not smart enough to
>figure out how to get around it on my laptop.
>
>I have had no real trouble just getting FastTrack going to listen to.
>Its just that it does not seem to offer any way to record whatever I'm
>hearing on the computer. Perhaps it has some kind of `loopback'
>feature. I know it has to 1/4 trs in jacks that are called 'inserts`
>but the manual makes it sound like that is something to do with adding
>stuff to exising sound mix coming thru.
>
>Now 'sound-tap' has solved that problem for me, and it offers to save
>recordings in *.wav. Something some other recorders do not do. If I
>remember 'Total Recorder' was one of those that didn't.
>
>If you want to do anything but just record... then 'Sound-tap' will not
>be enough. But I have high-level tools like Audition and Sound-Forge
>to use once I have a wav file. It does mean an extra step in there
>but that seems worth it since I don't have to keep dicking around
>fiddling with devices and whatever which constantly means a reboot,
>usually right in the middle of ongoing work.

I'm actually very surprised that Total Recorder didn't work. I have
pointed quite a few people to it, and I can't remember anyone having a
problem.

Here on this Win7 machine it just records all the audio that passes by
without having had to change anything since I installed it the other
day. There is a way to change the recording format, and here it is
recording in wave format. It can be set to different audio sources, but
the "software" default is just the "What you hear" option without any
setting up necessary. My machine uses Realtek audio similar to yours.

I used to use it a lot up until about Windows XP, and the great feature
was that Total Recorder appeared as a source in Audition, so the
recording/editing option was seamless. It may be me, but I can't make
this feature appear in this Win7 + latest version of TR combination,
which is a great pity. I believe (but I'm often wrong) Total Recorder
always uses the "Direct Sound" audio functions and so it avoids the
great Windows 7 inbuilt sample rate converter disaster.

Another application that people seem to use is "Virtual Audio Cable",
which does the same sort of thing. Like Sound Tap, these both keep the
audio in digital form throughout.
--
Bill

[Trevor]

"John Williamson" > wrote in message
...
> One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you might
> try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their internal
> sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to the digital
> parts.

It's true most laptops have limited sound capabilities, but it has nothing
to do with "proximity of the analogue parts to the
digital parts." Simply cost, and the manufacturers decision or where the
money is best spent for the target market.

Trevor.

[John Williamson]

On 18/01/2014 01:13, Trevor wrote:
> "John Williamson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you might
>> try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their internal
>> sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to the digital
>> parts.
>
> It's true most laptops have limited sound capabilities, but it has nothing
> to do with "proximity of the analogue parts to the
> digital parts." Simply cost, and the manufacturers decision or where the
> money is best spent for the target market.
>
So, in your experience, laptops don't suffer from digital hash breaking
through on the audio?

Limited capabilities isn't the same as bad sound quality.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Bob Quintal]

John Williamson > wrote in
:

> On 18/01/2014 01:13, Trevor wrote:
>> "John Williamson" > wrote in
>> message ...
>>> One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you,
>>> you might try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems
>>> with their internal sound quality due to the proximity of the
>>> analogue parts to the digital parts.
>>
>> It's true most laptops have limited sound capabilities, but it
>> has nothing to do with "proximity of the analogue parts to the
>> digital parts." Simply cost, and the manufacturers decision or
>> where the
>> money is best spent for the target market.
>>
> So, in your experience, laptops don't suffer from digital hash
> breaking through on the audio?
>
They do but it is not "due to the proximity of the
analogue parts to the digital parts."
It is due to the manufacturers not paying for adequate filtering.


> Limited capabilities isn't the same as bad sound quality.

--
Bob Q.
PA is y I've altered my address.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[hank alrich]

John Williamson > wrote:

> On 18/01/2014 01:13, Trevor wrote:
> > "John Williamson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you might
> >> try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their internal
> >> sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to the digital
> >> parts.
> >
> > It's true most laptops have limited sound capabilities, but it has nothing
> > to do with "proximity of the analogue parts to the
> > digital parts." Simply cost, and the manufacturers decision or where the
> > money is best spent for the target market.
> >
> So, in your experience, laptops don't suffer from digital hash breaking
> through on the audio?
>
> Limited capabilities isn't the same as bad sound quality.

I've heard a couple of Dell laptops where conversion and output was so
bad that I assumed something was broken. I was assured things were
working as well as they worked. I think there's a large range of
performance from various models of various machines from various
manufacturers.

Going back to our first laptop, a clamshell iBook, we have never
experienced digital hash on audio outputs with any of the laptops.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Trevor]

"John Williamson" > wrote in message
...
> On 18/01/2014 01:13, Trevor wrote:
>> "John Williamson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you
>>> might
>>> try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their internal
>>> sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to the digital
>>> parts.
>>
>> It's true most laptops have limited sound capabilities, but it has
>> nothing
>> to do with "proximity of the analogue parts to the
>> digital parts." Simply cost, and the manufacturers decision or where
>> the
>> money is best spent for the target market.
>>
> So, in your experience, laptops don't suffer from digital hash breaking
> through on the audio?


Read what I wrote! As I said, there is NO reason it HAS to, just try any of
the high quality PCI audio cards available for proof that digital and analog
can happily co-exist when properly designed using quality parts.

Trevor.

[Gray_Wolf]

On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:51:58 -0800, (hank alrich)
wrote:

>John Williamson > wrote:
>
>> On 18/01/2014 01:13, Trevor wrote:
>> > "John Williamson" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you might
>> >> try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their internal
>> >> sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to the digital
>> >> parts.
>> >
>> > It's true most laptops have limited sound capabilities, but it has nothing
>> > to do with "proximity of the analogue parts to the
>> > digital parts." Simply cost, and the manufacturers decision or where the
>> > money is best spent for the target market.
>> >
>> So, in your experience, laptops don't suffer from digital hash breaking
>> through on the audio?
>>
>> Limited capabilities isn't the same as bad sound quality.
>
>I've heard a couple of Dell laptops where conversion and output was so
>bad that I assumed something was broken. I was assured things were
>working as well as they worked. I think there's a large range of
>performance from various models of various machines from various
>manufacturers.
>
>Going back to our first laptop, a clamshell iBook, we have never
>experienced digital hash on audio outputs with any of the laptops.

Back during the holidays I played with an old laptop my sister has.
Can't remember the brand but it was a common name. Intel PIII was the
CPU. It really sucked but it had very good sound. Higher than average
sound volume. It had a "JBL" logo tag near the speakers. I was rather
impressed for what it was.

[Gray_Wolf]

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:28:02 +1100, "Trevor" > wrote:

>
>"John Williamson" > wrote in message
...
>> On 18/01/2014 01:13, Trevor wrote:
>>> "John Williamson" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you
>>>> might
>>>> try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their internal
>>>> sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to the digital
>>>> parts.
>>>
>>> It's true most laptops have limited sound capabilities, but it has
>>> nothing
>>> to do with "proximity of the analogue parts to the
>>> digital parts." Simply cost, and the manufacturers decision or where
>>> the
>>> money is best spent for the target market.
>>>
>> So, in your experience, laptops don't suffer from digital hash breaking
>> through on the audio?
>
>
>Read what I wrote! As I said, there is NO reason it HAS to, just try any of
>the high quality PCI audio cards available for proof that digital and analog
>can happily co-exist when properly designed using quality parts.
>
>Trevor.
>

That's been my experience. Never heard a bit of RFI with a good PCI
card.

[Trevor]

"Gray_Wolf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:28:02 +1100, "Trevor" > wrote:
>>"John Williamson" > wrote in message
...
>>> On 18/01/2014 01:13, Trevor wrote:
>>>> "John Williamson" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> One point I'd make is that if sound quality is important to you, you
>>>>> might
>>>>> try a USB soundcard, as most laptops have problems with their internal
>>>>> sound quality due to the proximity of the analogue parts to the
>>>>> digital
>>>>> parts.
>>>>
>>>> It's true most laptops have limited sound capabilities, but it has
>>>> nothing
>>>> to do with "proximity of the analogue parts to the
>>>> digital parts." Simply cost, and the manufacturers decision or where
>>>> the
>>>> money is best spent for the target market.
>>>>
>>> So, in your experience, laptops don't suffer from digital hash breaking
>>> through on the audio?
>>
>>
>>Read what I wrote! As I said, there is NO reason it HAS to, just try any
>>of
>>the high quality PCI audio cards available for proof that digital and
>>analog
>>can happily co-exist when properly designed using quality parts.
>
> That's been my experience. Never heard a bit of RFI with a good PCI
> card.


Right, measurements on cards from DAL, Echo, M-Audio etc. show they can hold
their own with their USB equivalents. It is simply the case that
manufacturers don't bother putting such performance *inside* a laptop when
those few who require it can already buy a USB device for the laptop of
their choice instead. But that doesn't mean it *can't* be done!

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"John Williamson" > wrote in message
...
> USB soundcards have proper shielding between the digital and analogue
> parts, which very few laptops that I've used do. They also tend put a
> little more effort into PCB earthing layout.

Which just as I said, is simply a cost decision, or are you suggesting it is
somehow impossible to use any shielding and "put a little more effort into
PCB earthing layout" of a laptop?
As I said, there is little demand for good sound in a laptop when those few
who need it can simply buy a USB interface themselves.
THAT is the reason, NOT that it is impossible.

Trevor.

[Harry Putnam]

Bill > writes:


[...]

> I'm actually very surprised that Total Recorder didn't work. I have
> pointed quite a few people to it, and I can't remember anyone having a
> problem.

You know, thinking a little more about this, and struggling for memory
clarity TR may have worked but only recording from one of the devices
on offer called microphone (high density... bla bleh)

I do remember that more than one of the tools I experimented with
would record only from there. The problem is, the Mic is built in on
the laptop hardware which means it hears the fans and harddrives, and
the fans are quite loud... at least close up like that, so it really
ruins any recording other than simple stuff where sound quality isn't
all that important.

TR may have been one of those... not really sure any more.

> Here on this Win7 machine it just records all the audio that passes by
> without having had to change anything since I installed it the other
> day. There is a way to change the recording format, and here it is
> recording in wave format. It can be set to different audio sources,
> but the "software" default is just the "What you hear" option without
> any setting up necessary. My machine uses Realtek audio similar to
> yours.

What do you actually have hooked to in the (Control panel) sound
dialog?


> I used to use it a lot up until about Windows XP, and the great
> feature was that Total Recorder appeared as a source in Audition, so
> the recording/editing option was seamless. It may be me, but I can't
> make this feature appear in this Win7 + latest version of TR
> combination, which is a great pity. I believe (but I'm often wrong)
> Total Recorder always uses the "Direct Sound" audio functions and so
> it avoids the great Windows 7 inbuilt sample rate converter disaster.

What are you speaking of when you mention 'inbuilt sample rate
converter disaster'?

> Another application that people seem to use is "Virtual Audio Cable",
> which does the same sort of thing. Like Sound Tap, these both keep the
> audio in digital form throughout.

OK, I read the 'sound tap' lit, and also meddled with Virtual A
C... but meddling with VAC was a good while back... don't remember why
I dropped it... seems like maybe it got too complicated. They
probably have a better interface by now.

But that aside; do you understand how those type of tools work? It
seems pretty incomplete to just say it uses some kind of 'virtual
kernel driver', but the SoundTap documentation pretty much leaves it
at that.

What does this Kernel driver do exactly... pass the zeros and ones
directly to the earphone out ... ?

What is actually being bypassed by staying with digital format?

[Harry Putnam]

"Trevor" > writes:

> "John Williamson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> USB soundcards have proper shielding between the digital and analogue
>> parts, which very few laptops that I've used do. They also tend put a
>> little more effort into PCB earthing layout.
>
> Which just as I said, is simply a cost decision, or are you suggesting it is
> somehow impossible to use any shielding and "put a little more effort into
> PCB earthing layout" of a laptop?
> As I said, there is little demand for good sound in a laptop when those few
> who need it can simply buy a USB interface themselves.
> THAT is the reason, NOT that it is impossible.

Is there a USB breakout card that can source the PC itself for
recording? And if so, does it somehow bypass the sound handling
hardware in the laptop?

The USB FastTrack, pro does not appear to have that option.

I'm not a smartass, just serious questions from a sound dope.

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Harry Putnam wrote:
> "Trevor" > writes:
>
>> "John Williamson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> USB soundcards have proper shielding between the digital and analogue
>>> parts, which very few laptops that I've used do. They also tend put a
>>> little more effort into PCB earthing layout.
>>
>> Which just as I said, is simply a cost decision, or are you suggesting it is
>> somehow impossible to use any shielding and "put a little more effort into
>> PCB earthing layout" of a laptop?
>> As I said, there is little demand for good sound in a laptop when those few
>> who need it can simply buy a USB interface themselves.
>> THAT is the reason, NOT that it is impossible.
>
> Is there a USB breakout card that can source the PC itself for
> recording? And if so, does it somehow bypass the sound handling
> hardware in the laptop?
>
> The USB FastTrack, pro does not appear to have that option.
>
> I'm not a smartass, just serious questions from a sound dope.
>


If the USB thingy has S/PDIF you can use that for a "loopback" -
being careful to keep the right things muted so you don't get a feedback
loop. Under Windows you can record from the Windows
mixer out unless that doesn't work on your machine, as some have
reported.

--
Les Cargill

[Bill[_20_]]

In message >, Harry Putnam
> writes
>Bill > writes:
>
>
>[...]
>
>> I'm actually very surprised that Total Recorder didn't work. I have
>> pointed quite a few people to it, and I can't remember anyone having a
>> problem.
>
>You know, thinking a little more about this, and struggling for memory
>clarity TR may have worked but only recording from one of the devices
>on offer called microphone (high density... bla bleh)
>
I think you may have been trying too hard! The default with TR is the
"software" option, which records what passes out through the machine.
You can select microphone etc., but you have to choose the "Sound Board"
set of recording sources first.

>I do remember that more than one of the tools I experimented with
>would record only from there. The problem is, the Mic is built in on
>the laptop hardware which means it hears the fans and harddrives, and
>the fans are quite loud... at least close up like that, so it really
>ruins any recording other than simple stuff where sound quality isn't
>all that important.
Yes, it is amazing to me that laptop manufacturers save perhaps 0.01% of
a yen's worth of cable by mounting the microphone next to the hard drive
and fan. Actually on the elderly Thinkpad X60 tablet that I just
replaced the hinge on, the mic cable went the whole way round the base,
through the hinge and then up to the top of the screen. It should have
been good as a mic position, but the plug end had unscreened wires.
Maybe the screen ended somewhere up under the tape used to hold it in
place.
>
>What do you actually have hooked to in the (Control panel) sound
>dialog?
>
Control Panel just says Microphone for recording, and Speaker for
playback. It's a Lenovo Thinkpad SL510. Total recorder records whatever
passes through the machine in spite of these settings
>
>> I used to use it a lot up until about Windows XP, and the great
>> feature was that Total Recorder appeared as a source in Audition, so
>> the recording/editing option was seamless. It may be me, but I can't
>> make this feature appear in this Win7 + latest version of TR
>> combination, which is a great pity. I believe (but I'm often wrong)
>> Total Recorder always uses the "Direct Sound" audio functions and so
>> it avoids the great Windows 7 inbuilt sample rate converter disaster.
>
>What are you speaking of when you mention 'inbuilt sample rate
>converter disaster'?

Http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2653312

People recording audio off YouTube discovered that the sound quality was
far worse than they expected, and tracked it down to the sample rate
settings in Windows 7. Microsoft eventually accepted that the inbuilt
Win7 sample rate converter was dire and issued the patch. I don't know
whether service packs or Windows 8 have addressed this.
The situation is compounded by the fact that every machine that I have
seen recently booted up for the very first time with different sample
rate settings for record and playback. You set these rates via the
Properties, Advanced for recording and replay devices.

With some combinations of usb devices using asio and the on-board audio,
it can be that re-setting the sample rate in one device can affect the
sample rate in the other. The little Control Panel audio settings
windows also have to be closed and re-opened to reflect changes made
elsewhere, which I think explains why, for example, the Realtek control
panel may not always agree with the Microsoft panels.

Also, if your computer uses an ATI chipset (I don't think yours does),
and you use a usb 1.1 external interface, you need to find and install
what AMD/ATI call a usb filter, which ATI used to hide somewhere on a
gaming part of their website. Without this the usb stream keeps being
reset while audio is playing and recording.

It's a bit of a mess.
>
>> Another application that people seem to use is "Virtual Audio Cable",
>> which does the same sort of thing. Like Sound Tap, these both keep the
>> audio in digital form throughout.
>
>OK, I read the 'sound tap' lit, and also meddled with Virtual A
>C... but meddling with VAC was a good while back... don't remember why
>I dropped it... seems like maybe it got too complicated. They
>probably have a better interface by now.
>
>But that aside; do you understand how those type of tools work? It
>seems pretty incomplete to just say it uses some kind of 'virtual
>kernel driver', but the SoundTap documentation pretty much leaves it
>at that.
>
>What does this Kernel driver do exactly... pass the zeros and ones
>directly to the earphone out ... ?
>
>What is actually being bypassed by staying with digital format?

My _understanding_ is almost nil, but I believe that AC97 and "HD Audio"
both do any digital work on the audio within part of the motherboard
chipset and convert the audio into a bi-directional serial stream that
is sent to the Realtek (or other manufacturer's) part of the system. I
think that perhaps software like TR picks up the audio streams by
hooking into them somewhere in the motherboard part of all this. "What
You hear" or "Stereo Mix" just picks off the digital audio that is
eventually fed to the Realtek board as "Speaker".

Realtek do have circuit diagrams somewhere on their site, but you have
to be very dedicated...........
Microsoft have published code to loopback the sound in Windows 7, but I
could never get it to work.....

--
Bill

[Trevor]

"Les Cargill" > wrote in message
...
> Harry Putnam wrote:
>> Is there a USB breakout card that can source the PC itself for
>> recording? And if so, does it somehow bypass the sound handling
>> hardware in the laptop?
>> The USB FastTrack, pro does not appear to have that option.
>> I'm not a smartass, just serious questions from a sound dope.
>
> If the USB thingy has S/PDIF you can use that for a "loopback" -
> being careful to keep the right things muted so you don't get a feedback
> loop. Under Windows you can record from the Windows
> mixer out unless that doesn't work on your machine, as some have
> reported.

Or if all else fails you can simply make some adapters to loop the analog
audio out back to the record inputs. As Les said, being careful not to
monitor the record inputs at the same time as the line outputs. Assuming the
box can actually record and play at the same time of course. For any decent
quality audio device that's not as bad as you might think. Especially since
it's usually only done for streaming audio which is never high quality
anyway.

Trevor.

[Harry Putnam]

Les Cargill > writes:


[...]

>
> If the USB thingy has S/PDIF you can use that for a "loopback" -
> being careful to keep the right things muted so you don't get a
> feedback loop. Under Windows you can record from the Windows
> mixer out unless that doesn't work on your machine, as some have
> reported.

"Trevor" > writes:

> "Les Cargill" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Harry Putnam wrote:
>>> Is there a USB breakout card that can source the PC itself for
>>> recording? And if so, does it somehow bypass the sound handling
>>> hardware in the laptop?
>>> The USB FastTrack, pro does not appear to have that option.
>>> I'm not a smartass, just serious questions from a sound dope.
>>
>> If the USB thingy has S/PDIF you can use that for a "loopback" -
>> being careful to keep the right things muted so you don't get a feedback
>> loop. Under Windows you can record from the Windows
>> mixer out unless that doesn't work on your machine, as some have
>> reported.
>

I appreciate your effort... but apparently I'm a little too dense to
really see how one would do that. The FastTrack has two 1/8 type
plugs under spdif section. In and out, and an on/off switch that is
labeled:
48v PH Power

So do you mean to run 1/8 cable from earphone hole on comp to spdif in
on Ftrack?

But in that case what ever you get has been handled by the onboard
sound tools on the comp right?

[...]

> Or if all else fails you can simply make some adapters to loop the analog
> audio out back to the record inputs. As Les said, being careful not to
> monitor the record inputs at the same time as the line outputs. Assuming the
> box can actually record and play at the same time of course. For any decent
> quality audio device that's not as bad as you might think. Especially since
> it's usually only done for streaming audio which is never high quality
> anyway.

As already mentioned, I do have particularly thick skull, but are you
saying to tap the stereo out at comp headphone port, split it into rca
cable and into the Ftrack rca inputs?

So again it goes thru what all are saying is a sucky setup, right?

But I guess you guys were presenting this as a last ditch sort of
fallback.

As it turned out, I was able to convert stereo out port on comp to 2 1/4
tr lines and use what two 1/4 in 'inserts' the manual refers to as
'inserts' but makes it sound as if it is sued to had more stuff to
outbound stream. Which is. of course, not what recording does.

It worked for about 10 minutes... but next time I tried... no soap. I
must have changed something, but haven't tracked down what yet.

Working thru a compu software/ stereo out/ FTrack in/ and out/, two powered
speaker in/, and two items needing power from the wall/. Not to mention
whatever Jury rigging connection as adapting things; Means quite a few
connections to be looking thru especially if you are confused about
what most of it is supposed to do.

So chances are high for all different kinds of pilot error, even with
a knowledgeable sound hand. Now add in an under trained pilot at
the helm and its likely to be messy.

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Harry Putnam wrote:
> Les Cargill > writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
>>
>> If the USB thingy has S/PDIF you can use that for a "loopback" -
>> being careful to keep the right things muted so you don't get a
>> feedback loop. Under Windows you can record from the Windows
>> mixer out unless that doesn't work on your machine, as some have
>> reported.
>
> "Trevor" > writes:
>
>> "Les Cargill" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Harry Putnam wrote:
>>>> Is there a USB breakout card that can source the PC itself for
>>>> recording? And if so, does it somehow bypass the sound handling
>>>> hardware in the laptop?
>>>> The USB FastTrack, pro does not appear to have that option.
>>>> I'm not a smartass, just serious questions from a sound dope.
>>>
>>> If the USB thingy has S/PDIF you can use that for a "loopback" -
>>> being careful to keep the right things muted so you don't get a feedback
>>> loop. Under Windows you can record from the Windows
>>> mixer out unless that doesn't work on your machine, as some have
>>> reported.
>>
>
> I appreciate your effort... but apparently I'm a little too dense to
> really see how one would do that. The FastTrack has two 1/8 type
> plugs under spdif section. In and out, and an on/off switch that is
> labeled:
> 48v PH Power
>
> So do you mean to run 1/8 cable from earphone hole on comp to spdif in
> on Ftrack?
>
> But in that case what ever you get has been handled by the onboard
> sound tools on the comp right?
>
> [...]
>
>> Or if all else fails you can simply make some adapters to loop the analog
>> audio out back to the record inputs. As Les said, being careful not to
>> monitor the record inputs at the same time as the line outputs. Assuming the
>> box can actually record and play at the same time of course. For any decent
>> quality audio device that's not as bad as you might think. Especially since
>> it's usually only done for streaming audio which is never high quality
>> anyway.
>
> As already mentioned, I do have particularly thick skull, but are you
> saying to tap the stereo out at comp headphone port, split it into rca
> cable and into the Ftrack rca inputs?
>

I don't know what it has. I don't have it in front of me. I can do Web
searches,and find the wrong thing, and we'll all be confused.

> So again it goes thru what all are saying is a sucky setup, right?
>

I don't know. Probably not. It just may not do
what you want.

> But I guess you guys were presenting this as a last ditch sort of
> fallback.
>


Sorta.

> As it turned out, I was able to convert stereo out port on comp to 2 1/4
> tr lines and use what two 1/4 in 'inserts' the manual refers to as
> 'inserts' but makes it sound as if it is sued to had more stuff to
> outbound stream. Which is. of course, not what recording does.
>
> It worked for about 10 minutes... but next time I tried... no soap. I
> must have changed something, but haven't tracked down what yet.
>
> Working thru a compu software/ stereo out/ FTrack in/ and out/, two powered
> speaker in/, and two items needing power from the wall/. Not to mention
> whatever Jury rigging connection as adapting things; Means quite a few
> connections to be looking thru especially if you are confused about
> what most of it is supposed to do.
>
> So chances are high for all different kinds of pilot error, even with
> a knowledgeable sound hand. Now add in an under trained pilot at
> the helm and its likely to be messy.
>

Absolutely. You have to develop a checklist of things to check and do
that, just like anything else.

--
Les Cargill

[Harry Putnam]

Bill > writes:


[...] Skipped commentary about having trouble with Total Recorder

>>I have had no real trouble just getting FastTrack going to listen to.
>>Its just that it does not seem to offer any way to record whatever I'm
>>hearing on the computer. Perhaps it has some kind of `loopback'
>>feature. I know it has to 1/4 trs in jacks that are called 'inserts`
>>but the manual makes it sound like that is something to do with adding
>>stuff to exising sound mix coming thru.
>>
>>Now 'sound-tap' has solved that problem for me, and it offers to save
>>recordings in *.wav. Something some other recorders do not do. If I
>>remember 'Total Recorder' was one of those that didn't.
>>
>>If you want to do anything but just record... then 'Sound-tap' will not
>>be enough. But I have high-level tools like Audition and Sound-Forge
>>to use once I have a wav file. It does mean an extra step in there
>>but that seems worth it since I don't have to keep dicking around
>>fiddling with devices and whatever which constantly means a reboot,
>>usually right in the middle of ongoing work.
>
> I'm actually very surprised that Total Recorder didn't work. I have
> pointed quite a few people to it, and I can't remember anyone having a
> problem.
>
> Here on this Win7 machine it just records all the audio that passes by
> without having had to change anything since I installed it the other
> day. There is a way to change the recording format, and here it is
> recording in wave format. It can be set to different audio sources,
> but the "software" default is just the "What you hear" option without
> any setting up necessary. My machine uses Realtek audio similar to
> yours.
>
> I used to use it a lot up until about Windows XP, and the great
> feature was that Total Recorder appeared as a source in Audition, so
> the recording/editing option was seamless. It may be me, but I can't
> make this feature appear in this Win7 + latest version of TR
> combination, which is a great pity. I believe (but I'm often wrong)
> Total Recorder always uses the "Direct Sound" audio functions and so
> it avoids the great Windows 7 inbuilt sample rate converter disaster.

I tried Total Recorder again on the strength of your comments.

Oh, and thanks by the way. Your posts have been chock full of helpful
stuff and very helpful to me. I do appreciate the effort.

It may just be that the Trial version does not offer the 'virtual
kernel driver' and that may be why I could not get going with it.

Anyhow, since the price is fairly low I decided to splurge on the 'pay
for' version ... I didn't have any time left on the trial.

I can say with certainty that Total Recorder WORKED JUST GREAT right
out of the box.. I'll have to apologize for bad mouthing the piece of
software.

I'm fairly certain any troubles I may have had (and it's been a good
while back) were the result of sheer thick skulledness. Although I'd
like to think the trial did not have the virtual driver option, and
that there were at least two horrible snafus blocking my use.... but
maybe not.... hehe.

[TimR]

I used an M-Audio Fasttrack (I think that's the model) USB interface with frustrating results.

The local church does an annual outdoor service and I was going to play piano. Previous years had horrible audio out of a cheap keyboard, and I thought I could do better.

I used MIDI out from the cheap keyboard through the M-Audio into a laptop running a software piano, then back out from the M-Audio into a decent stereo amplifier and speakers.

Sound was great - at home! Got to the gig 90 minutes early, and no sound. It took every bit of that time to get it to work. The computer had to be rebooted, the software restarted, and the Fasttrack turned on in exactly the right order and at just the right time, and it took 90 minutes of trial and error to hit on the right combination, sweating whether it was ever going to work at all. And I'm not sure I could do it again if my life/pay depended on it.

The results were really good, and nobody would have been aware of the problems but me. Still, the more complicated you make something you're going to use live, the more risk.

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/27/2014 11:58 AM, TimR wrote:
> I used an M-Audio Fasttrack (I think that's the model) USB interface
> with frustrating results.

> I used MIDI out from the cheap keyboard through the M-Audio into a
> laptop running a software piano, then back out from the M-Audio into
> a decent stereo amplifier and speakers.
>
> Sound was great - at home! Got to the gig 90 minutes early, and no
> sound. It took every bit of that time to get it to work. The
> computer had to be rebooted, the software restarted, and the
> Fasttrack turned on in exactly the right order and at just the right
> time, and it took 90 minutes of trial and error to hit on the right
> combination,

Welcome to the world of computers and music. When you get it working, don't shut it off! Your experience isn't unusual. Things often need to all be re-started and the starting order is often important as one thing needs to see another thing before it will start the way you want it to. Often all you nee to do is disconnect and re-connect the USB cable going between the interface and the computer, but sometimes you need to reboot the computer with or without the interface connected, whichever way works.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson