Computer problem

[polymod]

Just throwing this out there....seems like there's some knowledgeable folks
here who know as much about computers as they do audio :-)

Computer:
AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual
Core Processor 3800+
2.01 GHz, 2.93 GB of Ram
Running XP
(This computer, as all my music computers have been, was custom built by my
former technician who got in a bit of trouble and is no longer in the area).

My problem started about a week ago. (There have been no hardware/software
changes to the system and I use an Antivirus program which is up to date. I
run virus checks frequently. The machine is clean):
Problem:
Computer will totally shut down (it doesn't restart itself) if any external
hard drives, cameras, etc., are plugged into the 'onboard' USB ports which
are on the rear of the computer. All of these 'external' drives work
perfectly with other computers.
My wireless mouse, thumb drives, and my MIDI interface does not cause this
problem.....only hard drives, printers, cameras.
(btw, one hard drive is "powered" and the camera uses batteries. The other
external hard drive gets its power from the USB).
It doesn't matter which USB port I'm plugged into.

What I have tried to remedy the problem with no success:
1.) Temporarily disconnect all DVD burners and non essential devices from
the power supply to lighten the load.
2.) Replace the power supply with a new one with higher wattage
3.) Install a PCI USB card and use that instead of the onboard USB
4.) System Restore to a point before the problem started
5.) Guessing it might be a driver issue I booted up in Safe Mode.
**All of the external drives, cameras, etc. work in Safe Mode and did not
shut down the machine**
6.) Did a complete restore from a Ghost Image from a couple of months ago.
Plugged in a hard drive to any USB port and the machine still shuts down
completely.

fwiw, the computer works flawlessly otherwise. My workaround to accessing
these external drives has been hooking them up to another computer and
networking them. Ultimately I would like to have my main machine working as
it should.

I'm about out of ideas and figure my next step is to find a new tech.
TIA for any input.

Poly

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

polymod wrote:
> Just throwing this out there....seems like there's some knowledgeable folks
> here who know as much about computers as they do audio :-)
>
> Computer:
> AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual
> Core Processor 3800+
> 2.01 GHz, 2.93 GB of Ram
> Running XP
> (This computer, as all my music computers have been, was custom built by my
> former technician who got in a bit of trouble and is no longer in the area).
>

Uh oh...

> My problem started about a week ago. (There have been no hardware/software
> changes to the system and I use an Antivirus program which is up to date. I
> run virus checks frequently. The machine is clean):

So far as you know, it's clean... it might be worth reading a few
articles from a Google search online about details of what sort of
malware may cause this pathology.

We live in a post-Stuxnet world - USB is definitely in the mix
these days.

I'd also run the full Malware AntiBytes scan if you haven't.

> Problem:
> Computer will totally shut down (it doesn't restart itself)

This needs to be clarified - does it begin an *orderly* shutdown, as
if you'd pushed the button, or does it crowbar, as if you'd pulled the
power cord?

> if any external
> hard drives, cameras, etc., are plugged into the 'onboard' USB ports which
> are on the rear of the computer. All of these 'external' drives work
> perfectly with other computers.
> My wireless mouse, thumb drives, and my MIDI interface does not cause this
> problem.....only hard drives, printers, cameras.
> (btw, one hard drive is "powered" and the camera uses batteries. The other
> external hard drive gets its power from the USB).
> It doesn't matter which USB port I'm plugged into.
>
> What I have tried to remedy the problem with no success:
> 1.) Temporarily disconnect all DVD burners and non essential devices from
> the power supply to lighten the load.
> 2.) Replace the power supply with a new one with higher wattage
> 3.) Install a PCI USB card and use that instead of the onboard USB

Have you tried an externally powered USB hub? SFAIK, a PCI card will
still use the same basic plane of the power supply as the
onboard hub.

You're trying to establish that you are not pulling ... 5V USB power
( and whatever else shares that) down close enough to ground to cause
the shutdown. Maybe a driver/amp. chip somewhere in your USB chain(s)
has gone off enough to pull it down.

Many hard drives, printers and cameras use power external to USB
power, but some hard drives don't.

> 4.) System Restore to a point before the problem started
> 5.) Guessing it might be a driver issue I booted up in Safe Mode.
> **All of the external drives, cameras, etc. work in Safe Mode and did not
> shut down the machine**

You have to make sure you are presenting the same load on USB power
between Safe Mode and "normal" running.

> 6.) Did a complete restore from a Ghost Image from a couple of months ago.
> Plugged in a hard drive to any USB port and the machine still shuts down
> completely.
>

This indicates to me that it still might be a power problem. If the
Ghost Image has the exact same USB drivers as before this started,
then it's not the difference in drivers between Safe Mode and "normal"
but that something is turned on that's broken.

Or something. Might be worth putting a scope on USB power during a
plug-event that's known to cause this.

I personally would download and burn a Knoppix Live DVD and try that.
If it fails under Knoppix, then it's most likely a power problem - I'd
expect it to do the same as in Safe Mode.

If you don't have a current backup of your files, that would be a good
time to do that. Treat them as infected unless you absolutely know
better.

If it doesn't fail under Knoppix, I'd rebuild the machine. No,
that does not mean restoring a ghost image.

> fwiw, the computer works flawlessly otherwise. My workaround to accessing
> these external drives has been hooking them up to another computer and
> networking them. Ultimately I would like to have my main machine working as
> it should.
>
> I'm about out of ideas and figure my next step is to find a new tech.
> TIA for any input.
>
> Poly
>
>
--
Les Cargill

[polymod]

"Les Cargill" > wrote in message
...
> polymod wrote:
>> Just throwing this out there....seems like there's some knowledgeable
>> folks
>> here who know as much about computers as they do audio :-)
>>
>> Computer:
>> AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual
>> Core Processor 3800+
>> 2.01 GHz, 2.93 GB of Ram
>> Running XP
>> (This computer, as all my music computers have been, was custom built by
>> my
>> former technician who got in a bit of trouble and is no longer in the
>> area).
>>
>
> Uh oh...
>
>> My problem started about a week ago. (There have been no
>> hardware/software
>> changes to the system and I use an Antivirus program which is up to date.
>> I
>> run virus checks frequently. The machine is clean):
>
> So far as you know, it's clean... it might be worth reading a few articles
> from a Google search online about details of what sort of malware may
> cause this pathology.
>
> We live in a post-Stuxnet world - USB is definitely in the mix
> these days.
>
> I'd also run the full Malware AntiBytes scan if you haven't.

I have. But out of curiosity, wouldn't Malware be ruled out if I restored an
older Ghost Image where the USB ports did work?


>> Problem:
>> Computer will totally shut down (it doesn't restart itself)
>
> This needs to be clarified - does it begin an *orderly* shutdown, as
> if you'd pushed the button, or does it crowbar, as if you'd pulled the
> power cord?

Drowbar. No warning. Just shuts off. Takes about 7 seconds to shut down if I
plug a drive,camera into the USB port.

>> if any external
>> hard drives, cameras, etc., are plugged into the 'onboard' USB ports
>> which
>> are on the rear of the computer. All of these 'external' drives work
>> perfectly with other computers.
>> My wireless mouse, thumb drives, and my MIDI interface does not cause
>> this
>> problem.....only hard drives, printers, cameras.
>> (btw, one hard drive is "powered" and the camera uses batteries. The
>> other
>> external hard drive gets its power from the USB).
>> It doesn't matter which USB port I'm plugged into.
>>
>> What I have tried to remedy the problem with no success:
>> 1.) Temporarily disconnect all DVD burners and non essential devices from
>> the power supply to lighten the load.
>> 2.) Replace the power supply with a new one with higher wattage
>> 3.) Install a PCI USB card and use that instead of the onboard USB
>
> Have you tried an externally powered USB hub? SFAIK, a PCI card will
> still use the same basic plane of the power supply as the
> onboard hub.

Didn't know that....as well as a lot of things on a computer. And no I
haven't tried an externally powered USB hub.

> You're trying to establish that you are not pulling ... 5V USB power
> ( and whatever else shares that) down close enough to ground to cause
> the shutdown. Maybe a driver/amp. chip somewhere in your USB chain(s)
> has gone off enough to pull it down.
>
> Many hard drives, printers and cameras use power external to USB
> power, but some hard drives don't.
>
>> 4.) System Restore to a point before the problem started
>> 5.) Guessing it might be a driver issue I booted up in Safe Mode.
>> **All of the external drives, cameras, etc. work in Safe Mode and did not
>> shut down the machine**
>
> You have to make sure you are presenting the same load on USB power
> between Safe Mode and "normal" running.
>
>> 6.) Did a complete restore from a Ghost Image from a couple of months
>> ago.
>> Plugged in a hard drive to any USB port and the machine still shuts down
>> completely.
>>
>
> This indicates to me that it still might be a power problem. If the Ghost
> Image has the exact same USB drivers as before this started,
> then it's not the difference in drivers between Safe Mode and "normal"
> but that something is turned on that's broken.

Interesting. Great info you're presenting. Yes, same USB drivers as before.
No change.

> Or something. Might be worth putting a scope on USB power during a
> plug-event that's known to cause this.

Unfortunately that's beyond my scope of computer repair.

> I personally would download and burn a Knoppix Live DVD and try that.
> If it fails under Knoppix, then it's most likely a power problem - I'd
> expect it to do the same as in Safe Mode.

I'll check that out. Someone had mentioned Knoppix, but I wasn't comfortable
downloading BitTorrent peer-to-peer sofware that I saw on the download
links. Or maybe I need to research it better when I'm finished cleaning up
after serving 16 people for the last two days ;)

> If you don't have a current backup of your files, that would be a good
> time to do that. Treat them as infected unless you absolutely know
> better.

All files have multiple backups. I've learnd my lesson the hard way some
years back.

> If it doesn't fail under Knoppix, I'd rebuild the machine.

I can get around the problem by wireless networking. All my music programs
run fine Better than fine.. I don't think I would rebuild the machine unless
the problem poses a safety issue.

> that does not mean restoring a ghost image.

I understand.
Thanks for the advice Les. Much appreciated.
I'll do some more research on Knoppix and see what happens. After that I
think it's time for a qualified tech to take a look.

Poly

[david gourley[_2_]]

"polymod" > said...news:w0_uu.97977$kN2.30255
@fx19.iad:

> Just throwing this out there....seems like there's some knowledgeable
folks
> here who know as much about computers as they do audio :-)
>
> Computer:
> AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual
> Core Processor 3800+
> 2.01 GHz, 2.93 GB of Ram
> Running XP
> (This computer, as all my music computers have been, was custom built by
my
> former technician who got in a bit of trouble and is no longer in the
area).
>
> My problem started about a week ago. (There have been no
hardware/software
> changes to the system and I use an Antivirus program which is up to date.
I
> run virus checks frequently. The machine is clean):
> Problem:
> Computer will totally shut down (it doesn't restart itself) if any
external
> hard drives, cameras, etc., are plugged into the 'onboard' USB ports
which
> are on the rear of the computer. All of these 'external' drives work
> perfectly with other computers.
> My wireless mouse, thumb drives, and my MIDI interface does not cause
this
> problem.....only hard drives, printers, cameras.
> (btw, one hard drive is "powered" and the camera uses batteries. The
other
> external hard drive gets its power from the USB).
> It doesn't matter which USB port I'm plugged into.
>
> What I have tried to remedy the problem with no success:
> 1.) Temporarily disconnect all DVD burners and non essential devices from
> the power supply to lighten the load.
> 2.) Replace the power supply with a new one with higher wattage
> 3.) Install a PCI USB card and use that instead of the onboard USB
> 4.) System Restore to a point before the problem started
> 5.) Guessing it might be a driver issue I booted up in Safe Mode.
> **All of the external drives, cameras, etc. work in Safe Mode and did not
> shut down the machine**
> 6.) Did a complete restore from a Ghost Image from a couple of months
ago.
> Plugged in a hard drive to any USB port and the machine still shuts down
> completely.
>
> fwiw, the computer works flawlessly otherwise. My workaround to accessing
> these external drives has been hooking them up to another computer and
> networking them. Ultimately I would like to have my main machine working
as
> it should.
>
> I'm about out of ideas and figure my next step is to find a new tech.
> TIA for any input.
>
> Poly
>
>

I'd check the system /application error logs first, there should be
something registered which can point you in a better direction for a google
search specific to the errors showing up.

david

[Tom McCreadie]

polymod wrote:

>Computer will totally shut down (it doesn't restart itself) if any external
>hard drives, cameras, etc., are plugged into the 'onboard' USB ports which
>are on the rear of the computer. All of these 'external' drives work
>perfectly with other computers.
>My wireless mouse, thumb drives, and my MIDI interface does not cause this
>problem.....only hard drives, printers, cameras.
>(btw, one hard drive is "powered" and the camera uses batteries. The other
>external hard drive gets its power from the USB).
>It doesn't matter which USB port I'm plugged into.
>
To clarify the scenarios with camera and that "powered" hard drive, was it:
a) pc crashed even when each of these units (in switched-off state) was plugged
in?
or
b) pc did not crash from 'a', but crashed when any of those external units was
subsequently switched on?
or
c) pc crashed also when each unit (in switched-on state) was hot plugged in?

Some devices have a high initial current draw, perhaps overtaxing your system.

>5.) Guessing it might be a driver issue I booted up in Safe Mode.
>**All of the external drives, cameras, etc. work in Safe Mode and did not
>shut down the machine**

You know the extremes: Safe Mode => OK, Normal Mode => Fail.
To explore the in between and narrow down the list of culprits, you could try
the free diagnostic utility 'Autoruns' - 'msconfig' on steroids :-).
In the Auroruns Driver Section, temporarily disable any suspect driver(s) on the
list, then reboot and retest pc's usb behaviour.
Yep, tedious - but done methodically it may throw up a few pointers?
__
Thomas McCreadie
Keizersgracht 63B
1015 CE Amsterdam, NL

tel: 020-6266517
cell: 06 4390 5708

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

polymod wrote:
> "Les Cargill" > wrote in message
> ...
>> polymod wrote:
>>> Just throwing this out there....seems like there's some knowledgeable
>>> folks
>>> here who know as much about computers as they do audio :-)
>>>
>>> Computer:
>>> AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual
>>> Core Processor 3800+
>>> 2.01 GHz, 2.93 GB of Ram
>>> Running XP
>>> (This computer, as all my music computers have been, was custom built by
>>> my
>>> former technician who got in a bit of trouble and is no longer in the
>>> area).
>>>
>>
>> Uh oh...
>>
>>> My problem started about a week ago. (There have been no
>>> hardware/software
>>> changes to the system and I use an Antivirus program which is up to date.
>>> I
>>> run virus checks frequently. The machine is clean):
>>
>> So far as you know, it's clean... it might be worth reading a few articles
>> from a Google search online about details of what sort of malware may
>> cause this pathology.
>>
>> We live in a post-Stuxnet world - USB is definitely in the mix
>> these days.
>>
>> I'd also run the full Malware AntiBytes scan if you haven't.
>
> I have. But out of curiosity, wouldn't Malware be ruled out if I restored an
> older Ghost Image where the USB ports did work?
>

I would thinks so, yes. But I'm not gonna rule out malware
right now. MAB is just a reflexive go-to of mine.

>
>>> Problem:
>>> Computer will totally shut down (it doesn't restart itself)
>>
>> This needs to be clarified - does it begin an *orderly* shutdown, as
>> if you'd pushed the button, or does it crowbar, as if you'd pulled the
>> power cord?
>
> Drowbar. No warning. Just shuts off. Takes about 7 seconds to shut down if I
> plug a drive,camera into the USB port.
>

That sounds power-ey then.

>>> if any external
>>> hard drives, cameras, etc., are plugged into the 'onboard' USB ports
>>> which
>>> are on the rear of the computer. All of these 'external' drives work
>>> perfectly with other computers.
>>> My wireless mouse, thumb drives, and my MIDI interface does not cause
>>> this
>>> problem.....only hard drives, printers, cameras.
>>> (btw, one hard drive is "powered" and the camera uses batteries. The
>>> other
>>> external hard drive gets its power from the USB).
>>> It doesn't matter which USB port I'm plugged into.
>>>
>>> What I have tried to remedy the problem with no success:
>>> 1.) Temporarily disconnect all DVD burners and non essential devices from
>>> the power supply to lighten the load.
>>> 2.) Replace the power supply with a new one with higher wattage
>>> 3.) Install a PCI USB card and use that instead of the onboard USB
>>
>> Have you tried an externally powered USB hub? SFAIK, a PCI card will
>> still use the same basic plane of the power supply as the
>> onboard hub.
>
> Didn't know that....as well as a lot of things on a computer. And no I
> haven't tried an externally powered USB hub.
>

Emphasis "SFAIK" - the ones I've seen do not have a
power supply onboard.

>> You're trying to establish that you are not pulling ... 5V USB power
>> ( and whatever else shares that) down close enough to ground to cause
>> the shutdown. Maybe a driver/amp. chip somewhere in your USB chain(s)
>> has gone off enough to pull it down.
>>
>> Many hard drives, printers and cameras use power external to USB
>> power, but some hard drives don't.
>>
>>> 4.) System Restore to a point before the problem started
>>> 5.) Guessing it might be a driver issue I booted up in Safe Mode.
>>> **All of the external drives, cameras, etc. work in Safe Mode and did not
>>> shut down the machine**
>>
>> You have to make sure you are presenting the same load on USB power
>> between Safe Mode and "normal" running.
>>
>>> 6.) Did a complete restore from a Ghost Image from a couple of months
>>> ago.
>>> Plugged in a hard drive to any USB port and the machine still shuts down
>>> completely.
>>>
>>
>> This indicates to me that it still might be a power problem. If the Ghost
>> Image has the exact same USB drivers as before this started,
>> then it's not the difference in drivers between Safe Mode and "normal"
>> but that something is turned on that's broken.
>
> Interesting. Great info you're presenting. Yes, same USB drivers as before.
> No change.
>

We *think* they are the same. If they got stepped on, or something
else happened to "corrupt" them... I'm not sure I have
a comprehensive list of all the ways that can go wrong - we've
all just reinstalled drivers and things start working again.

>> Or something. Might be worth putting a scope on USB power during a
>> plug-event that's known to cause this.
>
> Unfortunately that's beyond my scope of computer repair.
>

Ah. Might be time to forklift upgrade the machine, then. At
some point, cut your losses. I know, I know...

>> I personally would download and burn a Knoppix Live DVD and try that.
>> If it fails under Knoppix, then it's most likely a power problem - I'd
>> expect it to do the same as in Safe Mode.
>
> I'll check that out. Someone had mentioned Knoppix, but I wasn't comfortable
> downloading BitTorrent peer-to-peer sofware that I saw on the download
> links. Or maybe I need to research it better when I'm finished cleaning up
> after serving 16 people for the last two days ;)
>

You shouldn't have to torrent it. I hear you about being busy - sounds
like you really need a good tech.

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-mirrors/index-en.html

Unless your German is good, take care in selecting by language :)

>> If you don't have a current backup of your files, that would be a good
>> time to do that. Treat them as infected unless you absolutely know
>> better.
>
> All files have multiple backups. I've learnd my lesson the hard way some
> years back.
>
>> If it doesn't fail under Knoppix, I'd rebuild the machine.
>
> I can get around the problem by wireless networking. All my music programs
> run fine Better than fine.. I don't think I would rebuild the machine unless
> the problem poses a safety issue.
>

Yeah, but can you trust that machine any more?

>> that does not mean restoring a ghost image.
>
> I understand.
> Thanks for the advice Les. Much appreciated.
> I'll do some more research on Knoppix and see what happens. After that I
> think it's time for a qualified tech to take a look.
>
> Poly
>
>

--
Les Cargill

[polymod]

"Les Cargill" > wrote in message
...
> polymod wrote:
>> "Les Cargill" > wrote in message
>> ...

<snip>

> Ah. Might be time to forklift upgrade the machine, then. At
> some point, cut your losses. I know, I know...

Cringe!!

> You shouldn't have to torrent it. I hear you about being busy - sounds
> like you really need a good tech.

I had one. And man, he was great. Would charge for about half the time he
spent.

> http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-mirrors/index-en.html
> Unless your German is good, take care in selecting by language :)

Danke, dass du mein Freund!

<snip>
>> I can get around the problem by wireless networking. All my music
>> programs
>> run fine Better than fine.. I don't think I would rebuild the machine
>> unless
>> the problem poses a safety issue.
> Yeah, but can you trust that machine any more?

Machine works great for what I use it for. It rolls it's eyes and asks "is
that all you got?" on projects of 100 or more audio tracks with dozens of
virtual instruments and dozens of effects. This has been it's only hiccup.

Thanks again Les.

Poly

[polymod]

"david gourley" > wrote in message
...

> I'd check the system /application error logs first, there should be
> something registered which can point you in a better direction for a
> google
> search specific to the errors showing up.

Thanks David,
I just did and it shows nothing. I plugged an external in at exactly 4:30
and booted the machine up exactly one half hour later.

There was no activity shown at 4:30 when the machine shut down. The next log
was when I booted it up again at 5.

Poly

[Scott Dorsey]

polymod > wrote:
>"david gourley" > wrote in message
...
>
>> I'd check the system /application error logs first, there should be
>> something registered which can point you in a better direction for a
>> google
>> search specific to the errors showing up.
>
>Thanks David,
>I just did and it shows nothing. I plugged an external in at exactly 4:30
>and booted the machine up exactly one half hour later.
>
>There was no activity shown at 4:30 when the machine shut down. The next log
>was when I booted it up again at 5.

You have all the symptoms of an actual hardware failure.

Check the jacks themselves; do they look okay with no visible cracking
or damage? If you're shorting across power lines when you plug something
in, it would be bad. USB ports are supposed to be current-limited but not
every motherboard does this in a competent way.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[polymod]

"Tom McCreadie" > wrote in message
...
> polymod wrote:
>
>>Computer will totally shut down (it doesn't restart itself) if any
>>external
>>hard drives, cameras, etc., are plugged into the 'onboard' USB ports which
>>are on the rear of the computer. All of these 'external' drives work
>>perfectly with other computers.
>>My wireless mouse, thumb drives, and my MIDI interface does not cause this
>>problem.....only hard drives, printers, cameras.
>>(btw, one hard drive is "powered" and the camera uses batteries. The other
>>external hard drive gets its power from the USB).
>>It doesn't matter which USB port I'm plugged into.
>>
> To clarify the scenarios with camera and that "powered" hard drive, was
> it:
> a) pc crashed even when each of these units (in switched-off state) was
> plugged
> in?> or
> b) pc did not crash from 'a', but crashed when any of those external
> units was
> subsequently switched on?
> or
> c) pc crashed also when each unit (in switched-on state) was hot plugged
> in?

The "powered" external has no switched-off state. It's just a power plug
and a USB cable.
I can either plug in the power for it first, or last, it doesn't matter. And
the camera will connect without it being turned on.

>>5.) Guessing it might be a driver issue I booted up in Safe Mode.
>>**All of the external drives, cameras, etc. work in Safe Mode and did not
>>shut down the machine**
>
> You know the extremes: Safe Mode => OK, Normal Mode => Fail.
> To explore the in between and narrow down the list of culprits, you could
> try
> the free diagnostic utility 'Autoruns' - 'msconfig' on steroids :-).
> In the Auroruns Driver Section, temporarily disable any suspect driver(s)
> on the
> list, then reboot and retest pc's usb behaviour.
> Yep, tedious - but done methodically it may throw up a few pointers?

Thanks so much Thomas for the info! Really appreciate it.

Poly

[geoff]

On 27/12/2013 6:51 a.m., polymod wrote:
> Just throwing this out there....seems like there's some knowledgeable folks
> here who know as much about computers as they do audio :-)

I just had a meltdown which turned out to be the motherboard. Previously
the newtwork port had died (hardware, not driver-related), but recent
woulg simply stop and reboot spontaneously. Eventually stuffed the HDD
and wouldnn't boot.


Unfortunately one of the Acronis (backup) sys files was one of the
corrupted ones, so opted for a new mobo and Win install, and manually
transferred my files over.

Went for a Gigabyte "Ultra-Durable" mobo this time.

And of course everything is now faster and bigger than the old Pentium
4GB XP, with an i3, Win 7(64), 2TB HDD and 16GB RAM ! Seems all so
slick and quick, especially when I installed ClassicShell and configured
the Classic Windows menu option ;-)

geoff

[William Sommerwerck]

"polymod" wrote in message ...

> Computer will totally shut down (it doesn't restart itself) if
> any external hard drives, cameras, etc., are plugged into the
> 'onboard' USB ports which are on the rear of the computer.

What about "offboard" connectors? That is, USB connectors connected to the
mainboard with cabling?

(Note: Some devices are on the hairy edge of drawing "too much" USB current,
and won't work //except// when connected to onboard USB connectors. This is a
side comment.)

[polymod]

"Tom McCreadie" > wrote in message
...
> >
>>The "powered" external has no switched-off state. It's just a power plug
>>and a USB cable.
>>I can either plug in the power for it first, or last, it doesn't matter.
>>And
>
> My reasoning was that if the HD were already plugged into the power mains,
> its
> platters will already be spinning - so insertion of the usb plug into the
> pc
> might result in a lower peak current draw from a marginal, struggling
> mobo.

T'was good reasoning at that. I appreciate all the input I've received!
btw, the computer is still humming along despite this niggle and naggle. A
couple of sessions tonight that went smooth as silk.

Poly

[Tom McCreadie]

>> In the Auroruns Driver Section, temporarily disable any suspect driver(s)
>> on the list, then reboot and retest pc's usb behaviour.
>
>I just downloaded and ran the utility.
>It shows absolutely nothing in the driver list.
>
'no entries at all' or 'nothing pertinent'?
I see about 100 entries under the Drivers tab - mostly for various services. But
I'm way out of my comfort / competence zone here...so I'll bow out and get back
to my Xmas gift book: "Mime for Dummies" :-)
__
Tom McCreadie

[William Sommerwerck]

"polymod" wrote in message ...
"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...

> What about "offboard" connectors? That is, USB connectors connected
> to the mainboard with cabling?

Thanks William. I can tell an Eb13 #11 b9 just by it's sound, but this kind
of stuff is way over my head :)

Actually, it's very simple.

Some USB connectors are soldered directly to the board. Others connect to a
header on the board, through a cable. Have you tried connecting the "bad"
devices to these jacks (if you have any)?

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:57:30 PM UTC-5, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "polymod" wrote in message ...
>
> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > What about "offboard" connectors? That is, USB connectors connected
>
> > to the mainboard with cabling?
>
>
>
> Thanks William. I can tell an Eb13 #11 b9 just by it's sound, but this kind
>
> of stuff is way over my head :)
>
>
>
> Actually, it's very simple.
>
>
>
> Some USB connectors are soldered directly to the board. Others connect to a
>
> header on the board, through a cable. Have you tried connecting the "bad"
>
> devices to these jacks (if you have any)?

this utility may be helpful

usbview

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Info/USBView.shtml

Mark

[polymod]

"Tom McCreadie" > wrote in message
...
>>> In the Auroruns Driver Section, temporarily disable any suspect
>>> driver(s)
>>> on the list, then reboot and retest pc's usb behaviour.
>>
>>I just downloaded and ran the utility.
>>It shows absolutely nothing in the driver list.
>>
> 'no entries at all' or 'nothing pertinent'?

No entries at all. Weird.

> I see about 100 entries under the Drivers tab - mostly for various
> services. But
> I'm way out of my comfort / competence zone here...so I'll bow out and get
> back
> to my Xmas gift book: "Mime for Dummies" :-)

LOL!

Poly

[polymod]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "polymod" wrote in message ...
> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> What about "offboard" connectors? That is, USB connectors connected
>> to the mainboard with cabling?
>
> Thanks William. I can tell an Eb13 #11 b9 just by it's sound, but this
> kind
> of stuff is way over my head :)
>
> Actually, it's very simple.
>
> Some USB connectors are soldered directly to the board. Others connect to
> a header on the board, through a cable. Have you tried connecting the
> "bad" devices to these jacks (if you have any)?

It looks to me to be soldered directly to the board. No cables involved.

Poly

[polymod]

> wrote in message
...
> On Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:57:30 PM UTC-5, William Sommerwerck
> wrote:
>> "polymod" wrote in message ...
>>
>> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> > What about "offboard" connectors? That is, USB connectors connected
>>
>> > to the mainboard with cabling?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks William. I can tell an Eb13 #11 b9 just by it's sound, but this
>> kind
>>
>> of stuff is way over my head :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually, it's very simple.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some USB connectors are soldered directly to the board. Others connect to
>> a
>>
>> header on the board, through a cable. Have you tried connecting the "bad"
>>
>> devices to these jacks (if you have any)?
>
> this utility may be helpful
>
> usbview
>
> http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Info/USBView.shtml
>
> Mark


Thanks Mark. This looks like it may shed some light on the problem!

Poly

[William Sommerwerck]

"polymod" wrote in message ...
"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...

>> Some USB connectors are soldered directly to the board. Others
>> connect to a header on the board, through a cable. Have you tried
>> connecting the "bad" devices to these jacks (if you have any)?

> It looks to me to be soldered directly to the board. No cables involved.

So all the USB connectors are soldered to the board? (My computer has a
mixture of soldered and cabled.)

[polymod]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> "polymod" wrote in message ...
> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> Some USB connectors are soldered directly to the board. Others
>>> connect to a header on the board, through a cable. Have you tried
>>> connecting the "bad" devices to these jacks (if you have any)?
>
>> It looks to me to be soldered directly to the board. No cables involved.
>
> So all the USB connectors are soldered to the board? (My computer has a
> mixture of soldered and cabled.)

Yes....I'm looking at it right now....the onboard USB ports are housed in a
small metal enclosure that's attached directly to the board....no wires
anywhere.


Poly

[polymod]

> wrote in message
...
>>
> this utility may be helpful
>
> usbview
>
> http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Info/USBView.shtml

I ran the utility and everything looks to be in order (as far as my limited
interpreting skills can see).

Poly

[Sean Conolly]

"polymod" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
> ...
>> polymod > wrote:
>>>"david gourley" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>> I'd check the system /application error logs first, there should be
>>>> something registered which can point you in a better direction for a
>>>> google
>>>> search specific to the errors showing up.
>>>
>>>Thanks David,
>>>I just did and it shows nothing. I plugged an external in at exactly 4:30
>>>and booted the machine up exactly one half hour later.
>>>
>>>There was no activity shown at 4:30 when the machine shut down. The next
>>>log
>>>was when I booted it up again at 5.
>>
>> You have all the symptoms of an actual hardware failure.
>>
>> Check the jacks themselves; do they look okay with no visible cracking
>> or damage?
>
> Sorry for the dumb question Scott, but which jacks?
> If you mean the onboard USB jacks, I stopped using them once I put in the
> USB PCI card.

And the problem occurs with the motherboard ports, or the PCI card ports?
Have you tried pulling the card and going back to the motherboard ports?

Sean

[polymod]

"Sean Conolly" > wrote in message
...
> "polymod" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> polymod > wrote:
>>>>"david gourley" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>> I'd check the system /application error logs first, there should be
>>>>> something registered which can point you in a better direction for a
>>>>> google
>>>>> search specific to the errors showing up.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks David,
>>>>I just did and it shows nothing. I plugged an external in at exactly
>>>>4:30
>>>>and booted the machine up exactly one half hour later.
>>>>
>>>>There was no activity shown at 4:30 when the machine shut down. The next
>>>>log
>>>>was when I booted it up again at 5.
>>>
>>> You have all the symptoms of an actual hardware failure.
>>>
>>> Check the jacks themselves; do they look okay with no visible cracking
>>> or damage?
>>
>> Sorry for the dumb question Scott, but which jacks?
>> If you mean the onboard USB jacks, I stopped using them once I put in the
>> USB PCI card.
>
> And the problem occurs with the motherboard ports, or the PCI card ports?

Both. It started with the motherboard ports.
I purchased a PCI interface a few days ago to see if the problem was the
onboard ports. It wasn't.


Poly

[Nil]

On 27 Dec 2013, John Hardy > wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> The capacitor plague. There is a Wikipedia page about bad
> capacitors. do a Google search for "Bad capacitors" and the first
> link is the Wikipedia page.

I had a flat screen monitor that died from that problem - bad, swollen
capacitors in the power supply section. I bought some new caps and
replaced them, but there were other problems with it so I gave up. Now
I have a friend's computer that I haven't fully checked out yet, but I
believe it's a bad power supply, and if so I bet it's the same
capacitor issue.

[[email protected]]

Often the BIOS will have a status screen that shows motherboard power supply voltages.
Might be helpful
Mark

[polymod]

> wrote in message
...
> Often the BIOS will have a status screen that shows motherboard power
> supply voltages.
> Might be helpful

Thanks Mark.

Poly

[geoff]

On 28/12/2013 8:59 a.m., John Hardy wrote:
> lighting. There may well be others around the motherboard that are failing.
>
> If your motherboard is critical to your setup, you can recap it, IF you
> have a great desoldering tool and proper technique. I've done that to
> two motherboards over the years.
>
> Otherwise, time to upgrade.
>
> John Hardy

Unless you place a very low value on your time, and want to always have
a vague uncertainty about your system's intergity, UPGRADE !

FWIW I once had a mobo that died, and when opened had ALL the
electrolytic caps totally spewed out. Presumably it had be actually
working in that situation for a time ! Forget what brand it was, but the
PCB itself was a memorable shade of lilac !


geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff > wrote:
>On 28/12/2013 8:59 a.m., John Hardy wrote:
>> lighting. There may well be others around the motherboard that are failing.
>>
>> If your motherboard is critical to your setup, you can recap it, IF you
>> have a great desoldering tool and proper technique. I've done that to
>> two motherboards over the years.
>>
>> Otherwise, time to upgrade.
>
>Unless you place a very low value on your time, and want to always have
>a vague uncertainty about your system's intergity, UPGRADE !

My inclination is that if I replace all the capacitors with known-good
Panasonic FC types that I can have certainty in the system's integrity,
whereas if I replace the motherboard with a brand new one I have just
put a whole raft of brand new doubtful capacitors in there.

>FWIW I once had a mobo that died, and when opened had ALL the
>electrolytic caps totally spewed out. Presumably it had be actually
>working in that situation for a time ! Forget what brand it was, but the
>PCB itself was a memorable shade of lilac !

Welcome to the consumer electronics world.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[geoff]

On 28/12/2013 11:16 p.m., Scott Dorsey wrote:
> geoff > wrote:
de.
>>
>> Unless you place a very low value on your time, and want to always have
>> a vague uncertainty about your system's intergity, UPGRADE !
>
> My inclination is that if I replace all the capacitors with known-good
> Panasonic FC types that I can have certainty in the system's integrity,
> whereas if I replace the motherboard with a brand new one I have just
> put a whole raft of brand new doubtful capacitors in there.

The mobo capacitor problem has been ancient-history for several years
now.And caps aren't the only thing that can go wrong. I still say
upgrade as there is a good chance something else may have been stressed.

>
>> FWIW I once had a mobo that died, and when opened had ALL the
>> electrolytic caps totally spewed out. Presumably it had be actually
>> working in that situation for a time ! Forget what brand it was, but the
>> PCB itself was a memorable shade of lilac !
>
> Welcome to the consumer electronics world.
> --scott

I have been an electronics/communications technician for many decades as
well as sound dude. So nothing surprises me.

geoff

[polymod]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> geoff > wrote:
>>On 28/12/2013 8:59 a.m., John Hardy wrote:
>>> lighting. There may well be others around the motherboard that are
>>> failing.
>>>
>>> If your motherboard is critical to your setup, you can recap it, IF you
>>> have a great desoldering tool and proper technique. I've done that to
>>> two motherboards over the years.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, time to upgrade.
>>
>>Unless you place a very low value on your time, and want to always have
>>a vague uncertainty about your system's intergity, UPGRADE !
>
> My inclination is that if I replace all the capacitors with known-good
> Panasonic FC types that I can have certainty in the system's integrity,
> whereas if I replace the motherboard with a brand new one I have just
> put a whole raft of brand new doubtful capacitors in there.

Very good point.

Poly

[polymod]

just wanted to say thanks to all the kind folks who offered their opinions
and suggestions.
Much appreciated.

Poly

[geoff]

On 29/12/2013 5:29 a.m., polymod wrote:
> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
> ...
>> geoff > wrote:
>>> On 28/12/2013 8:59 a.m., John Hardy wrote:
>>>> lighting. There may well be others around the motherboard that are
>>>> failing.
>>>>
>>>> If your motherboard is critical to your setup, you can recap it, IF you
>>>> have a great desoldering tool and proper technique. I've done that to
>>>> two motherboards over the years.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise, time to upgrade.
>>>
>>> Unless you place a very low value on your time, and want to always have
>>> a vague uncertainty about your system's intergity, UPGRADE !
>>
>> My inclination is that if I replace all the capacitors with known-good
>> Panasonic FC types that I can have certainty in the system's integrity,
>> whereas if I replace the motherboard with a brand new one I have just
>> put a whole raft of brand new doubtful capacitors in there.
>
> Very good point.
>
> Poly

Again - the dodgy-capacitor problem was a known specific event for an
era and was triggered by a reaction to industrial espionage (a capacitor
manufacturer deliberately 'leaked' flawed recipe for electrolyte).

That being said, capacitors are the weakest and most vulnerable
component in teh hot environment of a computer.

If you are replacing them, certainly use known-quality brand 105ºC caps.

But if I was doing the job for you, it would be more expensive that
replacing the mobo with a quality replacement already fitted with good
caps and other ruggedised features. If you have a friend who's time is
free, all well and good. Hopefully.

Here's what I got:
http://www.gigabyte.com/microsite/297/images/overview.html

geoff

[Trevor]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> My inclination is that if I replace all the capacitors with known-good
> Panasonic FC types that I can have certainty in the system's integrity,
> whereas if I replace the motherboard with a brand new one I have just
> put a whole raft of brand new doubtful capacitors in there.

Not if you use a decent brand like Gigabyte or Asus etc. They have used
solid capacitors for a number of years now to overcome that problem. Not to
say you won't have other problems of course, in either case!

Trevor.

[William Sommerwerck]

"Trevor" wrote in message ...

> Not if you use a decent brand like Gigabyte or Asus etc. They have used
> solid capacitors for a number of years now to overcome that problem.
> Not to say you won't have other problems of course, in either case!

My ASUS P4T ran 11 years without any problems, and is in semi-retirement. My
current machine uses an ASUS board.

[polymod]

"geoff" > wrote in message
...
> On 29/12/2013 5:29 a.m., polymod wrote:
>> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> geoff > wrote:
>>>> On 28/12/2013 8:59 a.m., John Hardy wrote:
>>>>> lighting. There may well be others around the motherboard that are
>>>>> failing.
>>>>>
>>>>> If your motherboard is critical to your setup, you can recap it, IF
>>>>> you
>>>>> have a great desoldering tool and proper technique. I've done that to
>>>>> two motherboards over the years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Otherwise, time to upgrade.
>>>>
>>>> Unless you place a very low value on your time, and want to always have
>>>> a vague uncertainty about your system's intergity, UPGRADE !
>>>
>>> My inclination is that if I replace all the capacitors with known-good
>>> Panasonic FC types that I can have certainty in the system's integrity,
>>> whereas if I replace the motherboard with a brand new one I have just
>>> put a whole raft of brand new doubtful capacitors in there.
>>
>> Very good point.
>>
>> Poly
>
> Again - the dodgy-capacitor problem was a known specific event for an era
> and was triggered by a reaction to industrial espionage (a capacitor
> manufacturer deliberately 'leaked' flawed recipe for electrolyte).
>
> That being said, capacitors are the weakest and most vulnerable component
> in teh hot environment of a computer.
>
> If you are replacing them, certainly use known-quality brand 105ºC caps.
>
> But if I was doing the job for you, it would be more expensive that
> replacing the mobo with a quality replacement already fitted with good
> caps and other ruggedised features. If you have a friend who's time is
> free, all well and good. Hopefully.
>
> Here's what I got:
> http://www.gigabyte.com/microsite/297/images/overview.html

Looks good. Thanks for the advice Geoff.

Poly

[polymod]

"Trevor" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My inclination is that if I replace all the capacitors with known-good
>> Panasonic FC types that I can have certainty in the system's integrity,
>> whereas if I replace the motherboard with a brand new one I have just
>> put a whole raft of brand new doubtful capacitors in there.
>
> Not if you use a decent brand like Gigabyte or Asus etc. They have used
> solid capacitors for a number of years now to overcome that problem. Not
> to say you won't have other problems of course, in either case!

Thanks Trevor,
My board is a GeForce 6100 AM2.

Poly

[Nomen Nescio]

::Just throwing this out there....seems like there's some knowledgeable
folks
::here who know as much about computers as they do audio :-)

Damn, them little heathen caps.

Doesn't the GeForce 6100 AM2 have two PCI 5V 32-Bit slots? Should you
rebuild?

(You should download an image chart that generally shows the PCI slot
voltages, so you know the difference between 3.3Volts 32bit, 3.3V 64bit,
5V 64-bit slot and the older 5V 32bit(Legacy).
Anyway, If your friend does solve the cap problems congratulations. If
it were me and it's not:)
I'd do a chart of my hardware (most importantly the audio) and see if
they can be upgraded to a newer mobo with WinSys7. In the event you have
older components it may be doable to use
some of these more hard to find products. (No affiliation, just doing a
conversion after the first of the year).

StarTech PCI Express to PCI adapter Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158165

OR

PCI conversion products - Hard to Find Products

http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/index.php?target=categories&category_id=227&sl=EN

Good luck and happy new year everybody. I'm curious how OP's endeavor
will turn out.

[Trevor]

"polymod" > wrote in message
...
> After careful inspection, there are 4 and only 4 caps that are not
> completely flat. The others "look" perfect to my eye.

But any that are of the same type as the ones already bulging, may not stay
"perfect" for long. If you go to the trouble of replacing any, it is good
practice to replace all similar ones just in case. Remember they most likely
came from the same manufacturing batch.

Trevor.

[Sean Conolly]

"Trevor" > wrote in message
...
>
> "polymod" > wrote in message
> ...
>> After careful inspection, there are 4 and only 4 caps that are not
>> completely flat. The others "look" perfect to my eye.
>
> But any that are of the same type as the ones already bulging, may not
> stay "perfect" for long. If you go to the trouble of replacing any, it is
> good practice to replace all similar ones just in case. Remember they most
> likely came from the same manufacturing batch.

Seconded. The tops are flat fom the factory and anything with a hint of
bulging is on it's way out. They're very cheap, so maybe best to just
replace all?

Sean

[polymod]

"Sean Conolly" > wrote in message
...
> "Trevor" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "polymod" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> After careful inspection, there are 4 and only 4 caps that are not
>>> completely flat. The others "look" perfect to my eye.
>>
>> But any that are of the same type as the ones already bulging, may not
>> stay "perfect" for long. If you go to the trouble of replacing any, it is
>> good practice to replace all similar ones just in case. Remember they
>> most likely came from the same manufacturing batch.
>
> Seconded. The tops are flat fom the factory and anything with a hint of
> bulging is on it's way out. They're very cheap, so maybe best to just
> replace all?

Good points. At this point it is not determined that this is "definitively"
the problem, but could be in the future.
With all the work I have, and the lack of time needed to be my own computer
tech, I think I'm going to wait it out until I need to upgrade. I'll be
making sure all my important files and programs are backed up.

Poly

[polymod]

"Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
...
> ::Just throwing this out there....seems like there's some knowledgeable
> folks
> ::here who know as much about computers as they do audio :-)
>
> Damn, them little heathen caps.
>
> Doesn't the GeForce 6100 AM2 have two PCI 5V 32-Bit slots? Should you
> rebuild?
>
> (You should download an image chart that generally shows the PCI slot
> voltages, so you know the difference between 3.3Volts 32bit, 3.3V 64bit,
> 5V 64-bit slot and the older 5V 32bit(Legacy).
> Anyway, If your friend does solve the cap problems congratulations. If
> it were me and it's not:)
> I'd do a chart of my hardware (most importantly the audio) and see if
> they can be upgraded to a newer mobo with WinSys7. In the event you have
> older components it may be doable to use
> some of these more hard to find products. (No affiliation, just doing a
> conversion after the first of the year).
>
> StarTech PCI Express to PCI adapter Card
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158165
>
> OR
>
> PCI conversion products - Hard to Find Products
>
> http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/index.php?target=categories&category_id=227&sl=EN
>
> Good luck and happy new year everybody. I'm curious how OP's endeavor
> will turn out.

Yea, me too.
thanks for the info. I have no choice but wait it out with the amount of
work I have coming in.
I know an upgrade will be coming up....may as well wait for it and do it all
at once. For now all my music apps are still humming along.

Poly

[polymod]

"polymod" > wrote in message
...

>At this point it is not determined that this is "definitively" the problem,

Just to clarify:

At this point it is not determined that this is "definitively" the *ONLY*
problem!

Poly

[geoff]

On 2/01/2014 5:03 a.m., polymod wrote:

>
> Good points. At this point it is not determined that this is "definitively"
> the problem, but could be in the future.
> With all the work I have, and the lack of time needed to be my own computer
> tech, I think I'm going to wait it out until I need to upgrade. I'll be
> making sure all my important files and programs are backed up.
>
> Poly

If one 's hour charge is, say, $25, are we not already 'financially
behind' over simply replacing the mobo with a modern reliable one ?

geoff

[Trevor]

"geoff" > wrote in message
...
>> Good points. At this point it is not determined that this is
>> "definitively"
>> the problem, but could be in the future.
>> With all the work I have, and the lack of time needed to be my own
>> computer
>> tech, I think I'm going to wait it out until I need to upgrade. I'll be
>> making sure all my important files and programs are backed up.
>>
> If one 's hour charge is, say, $25, are we not already 'financially
> behind' over simply replacing the mobo with a modern reliable one ?

Would be my choice, but the only problem with that is depending on the age
of the current board, you may not get a new replacement, (socket 1156 boards
are impossible to find here for example, and socket 775 boards nearly as
scarce) and a new motherboard, processor, RAM and even power supply are
sometimes required. By then you might as well replace the complete box. That
gets a lot more expensive, but you do get an upgrade and warranty as well as
the increased reliabilty.

Trevor.

[Sean Conolly]

"Trevor" > wrote in message
...
>
> "geoff" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> Good points. At this point it is not determined that this is
>>> "definitively"
>>> the problem, but could be in the future.
>>> With all the work I have, and the lack of time needed to be my own
>>> computer
>>> tech, I think I'm going to wait it out until I need to upgrade. I'll be
>>> making sure all my important files and programs are backed up.
>>>
>> If one 's hour charge is, say, $25, are we not already 'financially
>> behind' over simply replacing the mobo with a modern reliable one ?
>
> Would be my choice, but the only problem with that is depending on the age
> of the current board, you may not get a new replacement, (socket 1156
> boards are impossible to find here for example, and socket 775 boards
> nearly as scarce) and a new motherboard, processor, RAM and even power
> supply are sometimes required. By then you might as well replace the
> complete box. That gets a lot more expensive, but you do get an upgrade
> and warranty as well as the increased reliabilty.

.... and let's not forget the joys of a new OS install and getting all of you
stuff set up the way you like again.

This is why I'd really like to move my DAW to a VM - so that I can upgrade
the platform as needed but leave the virtual machine alone until I feel the
need for an OS upgrade. I just need to bite the bullet and figure out how to
get my PCI hardware mapped to a Xen VM.

It may sound like overkill, but I have Windows VM's that have been running
at work for four years and have been migrated to new host hardware twice
with no problems.

Sean

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Sean Conolly wrote:
> "Trevor" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "geoff" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>> Good points. At this point it is not determined that this is
>>>> "definitively"
>>>> the problem, but could be in the future.
>>>> With all the work I have, and the lack of time needed to be my own
>>>> computer
>>>> tech, I think I'm going to wait it out until I need to upgrade. I'll be
>>>> making sure all my important files and programs are backed up.
>>>>
>>> If one 's hour charge is, say, $25, are we not already 'financially
>>> behind' over simply replacing the mobo with a modern reliable one ?
>>
>> Would be my choice, but the only problem with that is depending on the age
>> of the current board, you may not get a new replacement, (socket 1156
>> boards are impossible to find here for example, and socket 775 boards
>> nearly as scarce) and a new motherboard, processor, RAM and even power
>> supply are sometimes required. By then you might as well replace the
>> complete box. That gets a lot more expensive, but you do get an upgrade
>> and warranty as well as the increased reliabilty.
>
> ... and let's not forget the joys of a new OS install and getting all of you
> stuff set up the way you like again.
>
> This is why I'd really like to move my DAW to a VM - so that I can upgrade
> the platform as needed but leave the virtual machine alone until I feel the
> need for an OS upgrade. I just need to bite the bullet and figure out how to
> get my PCI hardware mapped to a Xen VM.
>

FWIW, Vitualbox claims to map PCI hardware as well*. I just get the
impression that Xen is a lot more heavyweight and harder to configure
than Virtualbox. Xen looks like something people would use as an element
of a commercial hosting service. That's a "looks like", mainly
based on the cental website. Virtualbox just works.

*but only for Linux hosts.

> It may sound like overkill, but I have Windows VM's that have been running
> at work for four years and have been migrated to new host hardware twice
> with no problems.
>

Ayup. 'Tis a thing of beauty, that.

> Sean
>
>

--
Les Cargill

[geoff]

On 2/01/2014 11:57 p.m., Sean Conolly wrote:

>
> ... and let's not forget the joys of a new OS install and getting all of you
> stuff set up the way you like again.

Yep, and it feels as fresh as changing the pair of undies you've been
wearing for the last 6 years ;-)

Have just done it - well, the mobo at least. Still attached to my undies.

geoff