What is going on with the miking here?

[Nate Najar]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qlr22g7febv863c/I0sFRhaj8f

The record is available on CD and iTunes as "the guitar artistry Of Charlie Byrd" on riverside records. I have the original LP called "Charlie's choice" on Washington records. But I just came across this fascinating article.. The record sounds terrific. I always had thought it was done in a studio with hard panned bass and drums, but listening recently I realized the guitar wasn't perfectly centered and there was more L/R bleed than I remembered. So this makes sense.

Best I can tell from both the sound and the photos that's a pair of 47's presumably in omni plus spot mics for the 3 instruments. The drummer is very quiet in the whole record and as you can see there is no fold back, but Charlie never sounds like he's struggling to play too hard. I envy this situation. Boy I wish I came up in a time before bass amplification!

Anyway, based on what you can see, what is your opinion?

Thanks!

N

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Nate Najar wrote:

> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qlr22g7febv863c/I0sFRhaj8f

Hmm ...

> The record is available on CD and iTunes as "the guitar artistry Of
> Charlie Byrd" on riverside records. I have the original LP called
> "Charlie's choice" on Washington records. But I just came across
> this fascinating article. The record sounds terrific. I always had
> thought it was done in a studio with hard panned bass and drums, but
> listening recently I realized the guitar wasn't perfectly centered
> and there was more L/R bleed than I remembered. So this makes sense.

Hmmm ...

> Best I can tell from both the sound and the photos that's a pair of
> 47's

Yes, on Charlie, not on overall and most likely cardioid since they have
their back to the drummer.

> presumably in omni plus spot mics for the 3 instruments.

One on the drummer, fairly far away, see image "10 23 44".

> The
> drummer is very quiet in the whole record and as you can see there is
> no fold back, but Charlie never sounds like he's struggling to play
> too hard. I envy this situation. Boy I wish I came up in a time
> before bass amplification!

> Anyway, based on what you can see, what is your opinion?

The second stand appears to be the U47 for the bass, that one too fairly far
away.

> Thanks!

1961 would have a console with no panpots, so mics go to left or to right.
That fully explains the described imaging.

> N

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Nate Najar]

Thanks peter.

I didn't notice before, but it looks like an m49 or m50 in front of the drummer.....

[Frank Stearns]

Nate Najar > writes:

>Thanks peter.

>I didn't notice before, but it looks like an m49 or m50 in front of the drummer.....

If you mean that one mic that's up fairly high, apparently angled down at the drums,
that looks like a Sony C-37.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Nate Najar]

No frank, just I front of and above the leftmost 47. The headbaskets are in about the same plane.

N

[Gray_Wolf]

On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 15:51:08 -0800 (PST), Nate Najar
> wrote:

>https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qlr22g7febv863c/I0sFRhaj8f
>
>The record is available on CD and iTunes as "the guitar artistry Of Charlie Byrd" on riverside records. I have the original LP called "Charlie's choice" on Washington records. But I just came across this fascinating article. The record sounds terrific. I always had thought it was done in a studio with hard panned bass and drums, but listening recently I realized the guitar wasn't perfectly centered and there was more L/R bleed than I remembered. So this makes sense.
>
>Best I can tell from both the sound and the photos that's a pair of 47's presumably in omni plus spot mics for the 3 instruments. The drummer is very quiet in the whole record and as you can see there is no fold back, but Charlie never sounds like he's struggling to play too hard. I envy this situation. Boy I wish I came up in a time before bass amplification!
>
>Anyway, based on what you can see, what is your opinion?
>
>Thanks!
>
>N

I first heard of Charlie when I came across "Charlie's choice" in a
small record shop shop in Biloxi MS in ~1961. I was blown away by his
technique. He has been one of my top favorites for the past 50 years.
I will admit to being rather obsessed with Paco de Lucia for the past
several years.

Gray

[Scott Dorsey]

Nate Najar > wrote:
>No frank, just I front of and above the leftmost 47. The headbaskets are in about the same plane.


General observation:
When looking at posed photos of old jazz sessions, don't pay much
attention to microphone positions because they were often shifted in
order to make the photos look better.

Specific observation:
When looking at photos of Rudy van Gelder's old jazz sessions, don't
pay any attention to microphone positions because they were often set
up specifically to fool people trying to do exactly what you're doing.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[jason]

On 23 Dec 2013 16:05:25 -0500 "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in
article >
>
> Specific observation:
> When looking at photos of Rudy van Gelder's old jazz sessions, don't
> pay any attention to microphone positions because they were often set
> up specifically to fool people trying to do exactly what you're doing.
> --scott

Wow! Stunning - really?!

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Nate Najar > wrote:
>> No frank, just I front of and above the leftmost 47. The headbaskets
>> are in about the same plane.

> General observation:
> When looking at posed photos of old jazz sessions, don't pay much
> attention to microphone positions because they were often shifted in
> order to make the photos look better.

> Specific observation:
> When looking at photos of Rudy van Gelder's old jazz sessions, don't
> pay any attention to microphone positions because they were often set
> up specifically to fool people trying to do exactly what you're doing.

Some of them makes a lot more sense if they just have been moved a couple of
feet, thanks Scott.

> --scott

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Scott Dorsey]

Jason > wrote:
>On 23 Dec 2013 16:05:25 -0500 "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in
>article >
>>
>> Specific observation:
>> When looking at photos of Rudy van Gelder's old jazz sessions, don't
>> pay any attention to microphone positions because they were often set
>> up specifically to fool people trying to do exactly what you're doing.
>
>Wow! Stunning - really?!

Oh yes, he is still very secretive about techniques. He apparently had
a fit at an NPR reporter who clapped her hands in front of her recorder
in his studio, for fear someone would be able to derive an impulse response
of his room.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."