Re: DR-680 nit

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 11/15/2013 6:29 PM, Jason wrote:
> I purchased a DR-680 to try it out. Reviewers mentioned that it eats
> batteries. It does! It also runs quite warm. I was disappointed that it
> would run for only about one hour (2-track, 96/24, no stereo mix) before
> it ran out of juice. I was considering sending it back but then I noticed
> that the battery type in the menu was set to NiMH, not alkaline.

The "battery type" switch changes the voltage at which the recorder
decides that the battery voltage is too low to operate. When it shuts
down or warns of a low battery is a function of the discharge
characteristics of that particular cell type. As they run down, alkaline
cells have a slower drop-off than NiMH so when the voltage gets to a
certain point, if it thinks there are NiMH cells in use, it assumes that
they're just about to drop below operating threshold. Alkaline cells can
hold up that voltage somewhat longer.

Or maybe I have that backwards. Anyway, you'll get a more accurate
estimate of useful battery life if the setting agrees with the kind of
cells you're using. The default is usually alkaline because that's what
they expect you to use when you first take it out of the box.


--
For a good time call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[jason]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:08:54 -0500 "Mike Rivers" > wrote
in article >
>
> On 11/15/2013 6:29 PM, Jason wrote:
> > I purchased a DR-680 to try it out. Reviewers mentioned that it eats
> > batteries. It does! It also runs quite warm. I was disappointed that it
> > would run for only about one hour (2-track, 96/24, no stereo mix) before
> > it ran out of juice. I was considering sending it back but then I noticed
> > that the battery type in the menu was set to NiMH, not alkaline.
>
> The "battery type" switch changes the voltage at which the recorder
> decides that the battery voltage is too low to operate. When it shuts
> down or warns of a low battery is a function of the discharge
> characteristics of that particular cell type. As they run down, alkaline
> cells have a slower drop-off than NiMH so when the voltage gets to a
> certain point, if it thinks there are NiMH cells in use, it assumes that
> they're just about to drop below operating threshold. Alkaline cells can
> hold up that voltage somewhat longer.
>
> Or maybe I have that backwards. Anyway, you'll get a more accurate
> estimate of useful battery life if the setting agrees with the kind of
> cells you're using. The default is usually alkaline because that's what
> they expect you to use when you first take it out of the box.

You definitely don't have it backwards, I was just surprised at the
default setting. ...and I wish the 680 and others of its ilk included a
choice for lithium-ion cells as well. Filling the 680 with lithiums is
kinda pricey, but they increase my confidence level; their shelf life is
much better than alkalines. (Is that still true? The packagaging for
DuraCells and Energizers both claim 10 years of life on the shelf. I have
to wonder how many joules have evaporated after all that time though.)

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:46:04 -0500, Jason >
wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:08:54 -0500 "Mike Rivers" > wrote
>in article >
>>
>> On 11/15/2013 6:29 PM, Jason wrote:
>> > I purchased a DR-680 to try it out. Reviewers mentioned that it eats
>> > batteries. It does! It also runs quite warm. I was disappointed that it
>> > would run for only about one hour (2-track, 96/24, no stereo mix) before
>> > it ran out of juice. I was considering sending it back but then I noticed
>> > that the battery type in the menu was set to NiMH, not alkaline.
>>
>> The "battery type" switch changes the voltage at which the recorder
>> decides that the battery voltage is too low to operate. When it shuts
>> down or warns of a low battery is a function of the discharge
>> characteristics of that particular cell type. As they run down, alkaline
>> cells have a slower drop-off than NiMH so when the voltage gets to a
>> certain point, if it thinks there are NiMH cells in use, it assumes that
>> they're just about to drop below operating threshold. Alkaline cells can
>> hold up that voltage somewhat longer.
>>
>> Or maybe I have that backwards. Anyway, you'll get a more accurate
>> estimate of useful battery life if the setting agrees with the kind of
>> cells you're using. The default is usually alkaline because that's what
>> they expect you to use when you first take it out of the box.
>
>You definitely don't have it backwards, I was just surprised at the
>default setting. ...and I wish the 680 and others of its ilk included a
>choice for lithium-ion cells as well. Filling the 680 with lithiums is
>kinda pricey, but they increase my confidence level; their shelf life is
>much better than alkalines. (Is that still true? The packagaging for
>DuraCells and Energizers both claim 10 years of life on the shelf. I have
>to wonder how many joules have evaporated after all that time though.)

Remember Zinc-air? The shelf-life clock didn't start ticking until you
peeled the seal off the breather holes. Not very good batteries,
unfortunately. Very high internal resistance.

d

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 11/16/2013 10:46 AM, Jason wrote:

> You definitely don't have it backwards, I was just surprised at the
> default setting. ...and I wish the 680 and others of its ilk included a
> choice for lithium-ion cells as well. Filling the 680 with lithiums is
> kinda pricey, but they increase my confidence level; their shelf life is
> much better than alkalines.

I'm not sure what the actual technology is, but I've been using the
"hybrid" Sanyo Eneloop cells in my portable recorders. They don't run
for as long as some of the NiMH cells I have (I think they're 2,000 mAH)
but they retain their charge on the shelf for a fairly long time. With
regular rechargeable cells, if I don't remember to stick then in the
charger before I go out to record, I'm starting out with them half dead.
They weren't terribly expensive through one of the Amazon.com suppliers.

I've never looked into Lithium-ion AA cells to even see if they were
available, but I have a portable drill with a Li-ion battery pack and it
can go for months without charging or use and be ready to go to work
when I pick it up. I'd like to have that kind of "no worry" power for my
portable recorders.

--
For a good time call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[jason]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 08:11:47 -0500 "Mike Rivers" > wrote
in article >
>

>
> I've never looked into Lithium-ion AA cells to even see if they were
> available, but I have a portable drill with a Li-ion battery pack and it
> can go for months without charging or use and be ready to go to work
> when I pick it up. I'd like to have that kind of "no worry" power for my
> portable recorders.

Energizer sells Li-ion batteries - both regular and rechargable. They're
far from cheap but since I haven't seen any other brands that may explain
why. Lowes sells them. My experience with several tools matches yours. I
could rely on having to recharge my previous drill before use if it sat
for more than a few weeks between uses.

[jason]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:46:04 -0500 "Jason" > wrote
in article >
>
> On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:08:54 -0500 "Mike Rivers" > wrote
> in article >
> >
> > On 11/15/2013 6:29 PM, Jason wrote:
> > > I purchased a DR-680 to try it out. Reviewers mentioned that it eats
> > > batteries. It does! It also runs quite warm. I was disappointed that it
> > > would run for only about one hour (2-track, 96/24, no stereo mix) before
> > > it ran out of juice. I was considering sending it back but then I noticed
> > > that the battery type in the menu was set to NiMH, not alkaline.
> >
> > The "battery type" switch changes the voltage at which the recorder
> > decides that the battery voltage is too low to operate. When it shuts
> > down or warns of a low battery is a function of the discharge
> > characteristics of that particular cell type. As they run down, alkaline
> > cells have a slower drop-off than NiMH so when the voltage gets to a
> > certain point, if it thinks there are NiMH cells in use, it assumes that
> > they're just about to drop below operating threshold. Alkaline cells can
> > hold up that voltage somewhat longer.
> >
> > Or maybe I have that backwards. Anyway, you'll get a more accurate
> > estimate of useful battery life if the setting agrees with the kind of
> > cells you're using. The default is usually alkaline because that's what
> > they expect you to use when you first take it out of the box.
>
> You definitely don't have it backwards, I was just surprised at the
> default setting. ...and I wish the 680 and others of its ilk included a
> choice for lithium-ion cells as well. Filling the 680 with lithiums is
> kinda pricey, but they increase my confidence level; their shelf life is
> much better than alkalines. (Is that still true? The packagaging for
> DuraCells and Energizers both claim 10 years of life on the shelf. I have
> to wonder how many joules have evaporated after all that time though.)


I did some research. Alkaline cells begin to sag (a little) before NiMH
cells which then soon fall off a cliff while the alkaline cells' voltage
tails off much more slowly. Hence, the recorder warns of imminent trouble
sooner with the rechargables. The recording on Sunday was about 75 total
minutes. For fun I brought the gear home and let it run until dead with
the mics attached drawing phantom power. The recorder ran for nearly two
more hours before it gave up.