Soldering Question

[[email protected]]

Too lazy to search for texts or theory on this ****.

The cable to the right ear of my (closed) headphones
stopped working, so I cut the cable, pulled out the
two wires (red/white) and re-soldered them.
The headphones are now working again.

My question is:
What would happen if I accidentally swapped the two wires
whilst soldering, ie red to white and white to red?
Would the headphones simply not work, or would there be some
other result, like the stereo image sounding different?

What would happen if the soldering was less thorough
than before? Ie fewer copper strands connected or whatever?

I'm thinking there's a subtle difference in sound, but it
may be because I'm a crackhead or because the padding
is slightly less connected to the solid part of the right
headphone, which I'm thinking might affect the resonance,
a bit of superglue would solve that.
Or it could be a placebo. The cable being slightly shorter after
it's been cut wouldn't make much difference, would it?

[geoff]

> wrote in message
...
> Too lazy to search for texts or theory on this ****.
>
> The cable to the right ear of my (closed) headphones
> stopped working, so I cut the cable, pulled out the
> two wires (red/white) and re-soldered them.
> The headphones are now working again.
>
> My question is:
> What would happen if I accidentally swapped the two wires
> whilst soldering, ie red to white and white to red?
> Would the headphones simply not work, or would there be some
> other result, like the stereo image sounding different?
>
> What would happen if the soldering was less thorough
> than before? Ie fewer copper strands connected or whatever?
>
> I'm thinking there's a subtle difference in sound, but it
> may be because I'm a crackhead or because the padding
> is slightly less connected to the solid part of the right
> headphone, which I'm thinking might affect the resonance,
> a bit of superglue would solve that.
> Or it could be a placebo. The cable being slightly shorter after
> it's been cut wouldn't make much difference, would it?

Would sound hollow and strange.
geoff

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 8/28/2013 12:17 AM, wrote:
> Too lazy to search for texts or theory on this ****.

You're lucky that this is such an obscure question. You could search all
day and not find it. If you asked a common question I'd tell you to go
**** up a rope.

> The cable to the right ear of my (closed) headphones
> stopped working

> My question is:
> What would happen if I accidentally swapped the two wires
> whilst soldering, ie red to white and white to red?

You might not notice that anything at all is wrong, but most of us would
think it would sound like someone was trying to split your head down the
middle. The two earphones would be out of phase.

> What would happen if the soldering was less thorough
> than before? Ie fewer copper strands connected or whatever?

Uh-oh! So you weren't very careful about stripping the wires? The most
likely problem this would cause is that the wire would break again,
where you soldered it. The solder makes the twisted wires stiff and this
creates a stress point.

> I'm thinking there's a subtle difference in sound, but it
> may be because I'm a crackhead or because the padding
> is slightly less connected to the solid part of the right
> headphone, which I'm thinking might affect the resonance,

How the transducer, the cushion, and your ear fit together is very
critical. Try pulling the other phone a little off your ear and see if
that makes them sound more alike.

I'm actually surprised that you didn't ask "how do you solder this
stuff?" A lot of headphone cables are made from wire that's thin and
flexible, and made from a material that's difficult to solder.



--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:06:26 PM UTC+1, Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 8/28/2013 12:17 AM, wrote:
>
> > Too lazy to search for texts or theory on this ****.
>
>
>
> You're lucky that this is such an obscure question. You could search all
>
> day and not find it. If you asked a common question I'd tell you to go
>
> **** up a rope.
>
>
>
> > The cable to the right ear of my (closed) headphones
>
> > stopped working
>
>
>
> > My question is:
>
> > What would happen if I accidentally swapped the two wires
>
> > whilst soldering, ie red to white and white to red?
>
>
>
> You might not notice that anything at all is wrong, but most of us would
>
> think it would sound like someone was trying to split your head down the
>
> middle. The two earphones would be out of phase.
>
>
>
> > What would happen if the soldering was less thorough
>
> > than before? Ie fewer copper strands connected or whatever?
>
>
>
> Uh-oh! So you weren't very careful about stripping the wires? The most
>
> likely problem this would cause is that the wire would break again,
>
> where you soldered it. The solder makes the twisted wires stiff and this
>
> creates a stress point.
>
>
>
> > I'm thinking there's a subtle difference in sound, but it
>
> > may be because I'm a crackhead or because the padding
>
> > is slightly less connected to the solid part of the right
>
> > headphone, which I'm thinking might affect the resonance,
>
>
>
> How the transducer, the cushion, and your ear fit together is very
>
> critical. Try pulling the other phone a little off your ear and see if
>
> that makes them sound more alike.
>
>
>
> I'm actually surprised that you didn't ask "how do you solder this
>
> stuff?" A lot of headphone cables are made from wire that's thin and
>
> flexible, and made from a material that's difficult to solder.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

thanks, both of you.

i THINK they're out of phase. but the difference isn't as dramatic
as i expected.

this video helped me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-kxtKGR2vY

[[email protected]]

> What would happen if I accidentally swapped the two wires > whilst soldering, ie red to white and white to red? You might not notice that anything at all is wrong, but most of us would think it would sound like someone was trying to split your head down the middle. The two earphones would be out of phase. >


actually if the OP is talking about a typical stereo cable with a red and white and a common shield ground, swapping the red and white will swap the LEFT and RIGHT.

Mark

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:24:22 PM UTC+1, wrote:
> > What would happen if I accidentally swapped the two wires > whilst soldering, ie red to white and white to red? You might not notice that anything at all is wrong, but most of us would think it would sound like someone was trying to split your head down the middle. The two earphones would be out of phase. >
>
>
>
>
>
> actually if the OP is talking about a typical stereo cable with a red and white and a common shield ground, swapping the red and white will swap the LEFT and RIGHT.
>
>
>
> Mark

No I was just talking about the soldering for the right ear only.

After resoldering the headphones are now in phase.
Silly mistake but I was tired and forgot to take note of which
was which.

[Bill[_20_]]

In message >,
writes
>After resoldering the headphones are now in phase. Silly mistake but I
>was tired and forgot to take note of which was which.

A long time ago, I had an argument with a "golden ears" person, who
insisted that most people could not tell whether headphones were in or
out of phase.

I was sure that I could tell and that out of phase hurt.

You can feed a mono signal to both sides and bring the two earpieces
together while listening from a few inches away. Out of phase and the
sound goes quieter and more tinny. In phase and the sound goes a little
louder.
--
Bill

[William Sommerwerck]

The channels would be of opposite polarity -- "out of phase", in the
vernacular.

J Gordon Holt once remarked that the effect was not unlike having everything
cleaned out of your skull.

[Scott Dorsey]

Bill > wrote:
>In message >,
writes
>>After resoldering the headphones are now in phase. Silly mistake but I
>>was tired and forgot to take note of which was which.
>
>A long time ago, I had an argument with a "golden ears" person, who
>insisted that most people could not tell whether headphones were in or
>out of phase.

I could believe that. Most people can't tell the difference between music
and noise, it seems. Let alone mono and stereo.

>I was sure that I could tell and that out of phase hurt.

The hole in the center actually improves intelligibility a little bit.
Military communications headphones (mono) are often wired with the ears
in opposite polarity because it's easier to copy signals out of the noise
that way. I don't know why, but there were some studies in the 1940s.

>You can feed a mono signal to both sides and bring the two earpieces
>together while listening from a few inches away. Out of phase and the
>sound goes quieter and more tinny. In phase and the sound goes a little
>louder.

Yes.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 8/28/2013 9:24 AM, wrote:

> actually if the OP is talking about a typical stereo cable with a red
> and white and a common shield ground, swapping the red and white
> will swap the LEFT and RIGHT.

You would be right about that if he cut the cable in the middle. I was
under the impression that he cut the cable going to one of the earphones
after the left/right/common cable splits.



--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 8/28/2013 11:04 AM, Bill wrote:

> A long time ago, I had an argument with a "golden ears" person, who
> insisted that most people could not tell whether headphones were in or
> out of phase.

It's difficult to tell if the absolute polarity is correct, but it's not
difficult to hear when there's at least some of the same material in
both phones and one is out of phase (in this case, out of polarity) with
respect to the other. That's what splits your head down the middle.


--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[geoff]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
...
> On 8/28/2013 9:24 AM, wrote:
>
>> actually if the OP is talking about a typical stereo cable with a red
>> and white and a common shield ground, swapping the red and white
>> will swap the LEFT and RIGHT.
>
> You would be right about that if he cut the cable in the middle. I was
> under the impression that he cut the cable going to one of the earphones
> after the left/right/common cable splits.
>


There are two style - one with a single cable-entry (usually on Left
ear-cup), and the other where the cable split to two separate entries,
Clearly(ish) the OP had the latter.

geoff

[Trevor]

"Bill" > wrote in message
...
> In message >,
> writes
>>After resoldering the headphones are now in phase. Silly mistake but I was
>>tired and forgot to take note of which was which.
>
> A long time ago, I had an argument with a "golden ears" person, who
> insisted that most people could not tell whether headphones were in or out
> of phase.

Typical GE idiot then, some people find it hard to tell if speakers are in
phase, but it's it's pretty obvious when headphones are out of phase, even
if they don't know the cause.


> I was sure that I could tell and that out of phase hurt.
> You can feed a mono signal to both sides and bring the two earpieces
> together while listening from a few inches away. Out of phase and the
> sound goes quieter and more tinny. In phase and the sound goes a little
> louder.

Hell for a mono signal just put the headphones on your head, if the sound
comes from left and right ears they are out of phase, if it comes from the
centre of your head they are in phase.

Trevor.

[Marc Wielage[_2_]]

On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 08:24:16 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote
(in article >):

> J Gordon Holt once remarked that the effect was not unlike having everything
> cleaned out of your skull.
>------------------------------<snip>------------------------------<

My line was listening to out-of-phase material in headphones is like having
your brains sucked out of your ears with a soda straw. Not pleasant.

--MFW