Cheap High SPL Mics

[mcp6453[_2_]]

A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL (150dB) and
measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio application."

There's a lot I don't know about his application, such as dynamic or condenser,
omni or cardioid, but for dynamic mics, Sennheiser could be a good choice.

What cheap condenser mics tolerate high SPLs? What dynamics do you recommend?

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 6/28/2013 3:31 PM, mcp6453 wrote:
> A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL (150dB) and
> measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio application."

Probably a dB Derby. I once saw a former armored car tricked out with a
high powered audio system because the windows blew out of a normal car.

> What cheap condenser mics tolerate high SPLs? What dynamics do you recommend?

I wonder if that cheap Behringer omni measurement-style mic would work.
David Josephson told me that one of those "loudest car stereo"
associations asked him to make a mic that could handle SPL on that order.


--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[HIO]

On 6/28/2013 12:31 PM, mcp6453 wrote:
> A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL (150dB) and
> measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio application."
>
> There's a lot I don't know about his application, such as dynamic or condenser,
> omni or cardioid, but for dynamic mics, Sennheiser could be a good choice.
>
> What cheap condenser mics tolerate high SPLs? What dynamics do you recommend?
>

You want real cheap, AKG Perception 100 Condenser. I will sell you two
of mine in mint condition. Never used them but once.

Dynamic: Shure 58 57???

I dunno.

--
Here In Oregon

Twitter: I don't tweet, I leave that to the birds.
MySpace: Then put a lock on it.
Facebook: Ever hear of the term identity theft?

[Scott Dorsey]

mcp6453 > wrote:
>A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL (150dB) and
>measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio application."

Nope. The man needs an IEC Type I measurement mike and he won't be happy when
he sees the price tag. Because he's going to be using it for actual
measurement and something like a 421 (which is interestingly distorted at high
levels and a good choice for kick drum as a result) is not going to do the job.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >, Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
>I wonder if that cheap Behringer omni measurement-style mic would work.

Nope.

>David Josephson told me that one of those "loudest car stereo"
>associations asked him to make a mic that could handle SPL on that order.

He's the US rep for the Microtech Gefell measurement mikes, so he'd be the
first guy I'd call if I didn't want to pay Bruel and Kjaer or Larson-Davis
prices.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 6/28/2013 3:31 PM, mcp6453 wrote:
>> A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
>> (150dB) and
>> measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio application."
>
> Probably a dB Derby. I once saw a former armored car tricked out with a
> high powered audio system because the windows blew out of a normal car.
>
>> What cheap condenser mics tolerate high SPLs? What dynamics do you
>> recommend?
>

Ess-emm fiddy sebum.

Translation: SM-57.

> I wonder if that cheap Behringer omni measurement-style mic would work.

I am not sure. I have one recording where I used those for just
guitar amps. The guitarists thought the mics were overloading; I think
it was just their amps. But I can't say for sure.


> David Josephson told me that one of those "loudest car stereo"
> associations asked him to make a mic that could handle SPL on that order.
>
>

--
Les Cargill

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

mcp6453 wrote:

> A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
> (150dB) and measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio
> application."

What cheap car can go 200 mph?

> There's a lot I don't know about his application, such as dynamic or
> condenser, omni or cardioid, but for dynamic mics, Sennheiser could
> be a good choice.

The classic MD 421 advertisement is for the use of it to record gunshots.

> What cheap condenser mics tolerate high SPLs?

None, their noise would be intolerable. But the smaller the capsule the
higher the max spl possible.

> What dynamics do you
> recommend?

The word "measure" is used. It is a costly word. Sennheiser MD211 is by
design a measurement microphone, but you would need to re-certify an old one
just to know that it is OK and they don't exist as new ones. Sennheiser may
perhaps still offer a MKH 106 or similar in measurement version but the word
"cheap" is not included in the packaging ex works.

Nasa uses a high spl version of one the the small capsule dpa/b&k measuremet
mics to record the shuttle launches, they are spec'ed to 170 dB with
amplifier like performance measurements for the capsule. That is where ti
starts to constitute "measuring". So off to the local DPA vendor they go if
they want to measure car splitting loudness insanitties. They also do it in
case they want to go on the noble quest of pushing car audio bak to sanity
by including distortion measurements and dynamic linarity measurement in the
race.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Les Cargill wrote:

> Mike Rivers wrote:
>> On 6/28/2013 3:31 PM, mcp6453 wrote:
>>> A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
>>> (150dB) and
>>> measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio application."
>>
>> Probably a dB Derby. I once saw a former armored car tricked out
>> with a high powered audio system because the windows blew out of a
>> normal car.
>>> What cheap condenser mics tolerate high SPLs? What dynamics do you
>>> recommend?
>>
>
> Ess-emm fiddy sebum.
>
> Translation: SM-57.

No, only an omni needs apply, a cardiod ends up banging its xmax.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[david gourley[_2_]]

mcp6453 >
said...news:dLWdnUWx6MAZeVDMnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@gigan ews.com:

> A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
(150dB) and
> measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio application."
>
> There's a lot I don't know about his application, such as dynamic or
condenser,
> omni or cardioid, but for dynamic mics, Sennheiser could be a good
choice.
>
> What cheap condenser mics tolerate high SPLs? What dynamics do you
recommend?
>

I might let him borrow my Azden shotgun mic. Just the thought that it
could be destroyed that way would reassure me that justice would be served.

david

[hank alrich]

mcp6453 > wrote:

> A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL (150dB)
> and measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio application."
>
> There's a lot I don't know about his application, such as dynamic or
> condenser, omni or cardioid, but for dynamic mics, Sennheiser could be a
> good choice.
>
> What cheap condenser mics tolerate high SPLs? What dynamics do you
> recommend?

The original MD421 is capable of handling pretty stout SPL's.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://hankandshaidrimusic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic

[hank alrich]

david gourley > wrote:

> mcp6453 >
> said...news:dLWdnUWx6MAZeVDMnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@gigan ews.com:
>
> > A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
> (150dB) and
> > measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio application."
> >
> > There's a lot I don't know about his application, such as dynamic or
> condenser,
> > omni or cardioid, but for dynamic mics, Sennheiser could be a good
> choice.
> >
> > What cheap condenser mics tolerate high SPLs? What dynamics do you
> recommend?
> >
>
> I might let him borrow my Azden shotgun mic. Just the thought that it
> could be destroyed that way would reassure me that justice would be served.
>
> david

Great mic, eh? <cough>

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://hankandshaidrimusic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Peter Larsen wrote:
> Les Cargill wrote:
>
>> Mike Rivers wrote:
>>> On 6/28/2013 3:31 PM, mcp6453 wrote:
>>>> A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
>>>> (150dB) and
>>>> measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio application."
>>>
>>> Probably a dB Derby. I once saw a former armored car tricked out
>>> with a high powered audio system because the windows blew out of a
>>> normal car.
>>>> What cheap condenser mics tolerate high SPLs? What dynamics do you
>>>> recommend?
>>>
>>
>> Ess-emm fiddy sebum.
>>
>> Translation: SM-57.
>
> No, only an omni needs apply, a cardiod ends up banging its xmax.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen
>
>


Oof! Of course - massive near-cavitating bass. My bad then.

--
Les Cargill

[david gourley[_2_]]

(hank alrich) said...news:1l572ic.dujvg61uvy1vsN%
:

> david gourley > wrote:
>
>> mcp6453 >
>> said...news:dLWdnUWx6MAZeVDMnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@gigan ews.com:
>>
>> > A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
>> (150dB) and
>> > measure 30-15kHz (or better)? Looking for car audio application."
>> >
>> > There's a lot I don't know about his application, such as dynamic or
>> condenser,
>> > omni or cardioid, but for dynamic mics, Sennheiser could be a good
>> choice.
>> >
>> > What cheap condenser mics tolerate high SPLs? What dynamics do you
>> recommend?
>> >
>>
>> I might let him borrow my Azden shotgun mic. Just the thought that it
>> could be destroyed that way would reassure me that justice would be
served.
>>
>> david
>
> Great mic, eh? <cough>
>

I'm sure it's good for something, but I haven't found it yet. Live and
learn!

david

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

david gourley wrote:

>> Great mic, eh? <cough>

> I'm sure it's good for something, but I haven't found it yet. Live
> and learn!

See, it is a certified reference microphone (to be "better than").

> david

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[hank alrich]

Peter Larsen > wrote:

> david gourley wrote:
>
> >> Great mic, eh? <cough>
>
> > I'm sure it's good for something, but I haven't found it yet. Live
> > and learn!
>
> See, it is a certified reference microphone (to be "better than").
>
> > david
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen

Nicely stated, Peter!

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://hankandshaidrimusic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic

[david gourley[_2_]]

"Peter Larsen" > said...news:51cf9930$0$6978
:

> david gourley wrote:
>
>>> Great mic, eh? <cough>
>
>> I'm sure it's good for something, but I haven't found it yet. Live
>> and learn!
>
> See, it is a certified reference microphone (to be "better than").
>
>> david
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen
>
>
>

Excellent perspective.

david

[[email protected]]

On Friday, June 28, 2013 12:31:15 PM UTC-7, mcp6453 wrote:
> A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL (150dB)...."

Tell me no one is going to expose human ears to 150 dB. I've had occasion to talk to experts on hearing, and all agreed that exposure to 124 dB would immediately cause irreversible damage. Some felt that even a lower level, like 120 dB, would have that effect. Remember we have eyelids but not earlids for a reason: our ears protect us sleeping and waking, all around us, and above and below. And hearing doesn't come back when damaged. James Boyk, www.JamesBoyk.com

[hank alrich]

> wrote:

> On Friday, June 28, 2013 12:31:15 PM UTC-7, mcp6453 wrote:
> > A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
>(150dB)...."
>
> Tell me no one is going to expose human ears to 150 dB. I've had occasion
>to talk to experts on hearing, and all agreed that exposure to 124 dB
>would immediately cause irreversible damage. Some felt that even a
>lower level, like 120 dB, would have that effect. Remember we have
>eyelids but not earlids for a reason: our ears protect us sleeping and
>waking, all around us, and above and below. And hearing doesn't come
>back when damaged. James Boyk, www.JamesBoyk.com
>


Consider what might be the SPL at a mic position fractions of an inch
from various sources.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Trevor]

"hank alrich" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote:
>> On Friday, June 28, 2013 12:31:15 PM UTC-7, mcp6453 wrote:
>> > A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
>>(150dB)...."
>>
>> Tell me no one is going to expose human ears to 150 dB. I've had occasion
>>to talk to experts on hearing, and all agreed that exposure to 124 dB
>>would immediately cause irreversible damage. Some felt that even a
>>lower level, like 120 dB, would have that effect. Remember we have
>>eyelids but not earlids for a reason: our ears protect us sleeping and
>>waking, all around us, and above and below. And hearing doesn't come
>>back when damaged.
>
> Consider what might be the SPL at a mic position fractions of an inch
> from various sources.

Consider also that the sound source should only be 150dB when nobody is
remotely close to being exposed to that level. But why you'd ever want to
generate such levels to require a microphone for it is another matter
altogether. It's not like you need to put a microphone 10 foot from a Saturn
V launch, even assuming they were still in use.
And yes car audio SPL contests come into the category of "why"! :-)

Trevor.

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

hank alrich > wrote:

> > wrote:
>
> > On Friday, June 28, 2013 12:31:15 PM UTC-7, mcp6453 wrote:
> > > A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
> >(150dB)...."
> >
> > Tell me no one is going to expose human ears to 150 dB. I've had occasion
> >to talk to experts on hearing, and all agreed that exposure to 124 dB
> >would immediately cause irreversible damage. Some felt that even a
> >lower level, like 120 dB, would have that effect. Remember we have
> >eyelids but not earlids for a reason: our ears protect us sleeping and
> >waking, all around us, and above and below. And hearing doesn't come
> >back when damaged. James Boyk, www.JamesBoyk.com
> >
>
>
> Consider what might be the SPL at a mic position fractions of an inch
> from various sources.

Take the magnet off a ribbon mic and orientate it so that the earth's
magnetic field passes across the ribbon?


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[Scott Dorsey]

hank alrich > wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, June 28, 2013 12:31:15 PM UTC-7, mcp6453 wrote:
>> > A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
>>(150dB)...."
>>
>> Tell me no one is going to expose human ears to 150 dB. I've had occasion
>>to talk to experts on hearing, and all agreed that exposure to 124 dB
>>would immediately cause irreversible damage. Some felt that even a
>>lower level, like 120 dB, would have that effect. Remember we have
>>eyelids but not earlids for a reason: our ears protect us sleeping and
>>waking, all around us, and above and below. And hearing doesn't come
>>back when damaged. James Boyk, www.JamesBoyk.com
>
>Consider what might be the SPL at a mic position fractions of an inch
>from various sources.

And I am indeed forced to ask why people want to mike things fractions of
an inch from a loud source when nobody listens to them that way.

The exception maybe being the kick drum... nobody listens to the band with
their head inside the kick drum but rock producers cut a hole in the kick
and put the mike in there to get the sound of the mike overloading. The
overload becomes an important part of the kick character. As a non-rock
guy, I have to say I have always found this weird.

Incidentally, Mr. Boyk, it is great seeing you back here!
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

Hi, Stranger. Welcome back!

On 8/10/2013 9:33 PM, wrote:

> Tell me no one is going to expose human ears to 150 dB. I've had
> occasion to talk to experts on hearing, and all agreed that exposure
> to 124 dB would immediately cause irreversible damage.

Some people just like to see how loud they can make a sound. There's a
cult of car audio folks who have contests (dB Derby is one) to see whose
car audio system is the loudest. They're not dumb all the time though.
They put the mic inside and control the sound system remotely. Sometimes
that includes starting up the air compressor in the trailer behind the
vehicle as they rules don't restrict the sound source to purely
electronic means.

One of the high SPL speaker companies exhibiting at CES a couple of
years ago had a wining vehicle with one of their woofers on display. It
was built from an armored truck because previous installations in normal
cars would blow out the windows and doors from the SPL developed inside.

I don't know if Josephson ever took up the challenge, but one of the
organizations approached him about making a high SPL mic because the
off-the-shelf ones that they'd been using couldn't take the level from
some of the newer entries.


--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> Hi, Stranger. Welcome back!
>
> On 8/10/2013 9:33 PM, wrote:
>
>> Tell me no one is going to expose human ears to 150 dB. I've had
>> occasion to talk to experts on hearing, and all agreed that exposure
>> to 124 dB would immediately cause irreversible damage.
>
> Some people just like to see how loud they can make a sound. There's a
> cult of car audio folks who have contests (dB Derby is one) to see whose
> car audio system is the loudest. They're not dumb all the time though.
> They put the mic inside and control the sound system remotely. Sometimes
> that includes starting up the air compressor in the trailer behind the
> vehicle as they rules don't restrict the sound source to purely
> electronic means.
>

So the next thing is hydraulics.

> One of the high SPL speaker companies exhibiting at CES a couple of
> years ago had a wining vehicle with one of their woofers on display. It
> was built from an armored truck because previous installations in normal
> cars would blow out the windows and doors from the SPL developed inside.
>
> I don't know if Josephson ever took up the challenge, but one of the
> organizations approached him about making a high SPL mic because the
> off-the-shelf ones that they'd been using couldn't take the level from
> some of the newer entries.
>
>

--
Les Cargill

[Trevor]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
...
>> Tell me no one is going to expose human ears to 150 dB. I've had
>> occasion to talk to experts on hearing, and all agreed that exposure
>> to 124 dB would immediately cause irreversible damage.
>
> Some people just like to see how loud they can make a sound. There's a
> cult of car audio folks who have contests (dB Derby is one) to see whose
> car audio system is the loudest. They're not dumb all the time though.
> They put the mic inside and control the sound system remotely.


Of course they're dumb all the time, what's the point of generating SPL from
your car stereo (at great expense) that you won't, and can't, ever listen
to. Just to have bragging rights over other equally stupid contestants!


> One of the high SPL speaker companies exhibiting at CES a couple of years
> ago had a wining vehicle with one of their woofers on display. It was
> built from an armored truck because previous installations in normal cars
> would blow out the windows and doors from the SPL developed inside.

So a great solution to a non existant problem.

Trevor.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 8/12/2013 4:41 AM, Trevor wrote:

> what's the point of generating SPL from
> your car stereo (at great expense) that you won't, and can't, ever listen
> to. Just to have bragging rights over other equally stupid contestants!

Hobbyists do all sorts of strange things. Why do people with no talent
spend lots of time and money trying to be singers or musicians? Because
something's calling them.



--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey > wrote:

> hank alrich > wrote:
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Friday, June 28, 2013 12:31:15 PM UTC-7, mcp6453 wrote:
> >> > A buddy asked, "Is there a mic under $250 that can handle high SPL
> >>(150dB)...."
> >>
> >> Tell me no one is going to expose human ears to 150 dB. I've had occasion
> >>to talk to experts on hearing, and all agreed that exposure to 124 dB
> >>would immediately cause irreversible damage. Some felt that even a
> >>lower level, like 120 dB, would have that effect. Remember we have
> >>eyelids but not earlids for a reason: our ears protect us sleeping and
> >>waking, all around us, and above and below. And hearing doesn't come
> >>back when damaged. James Boyk, www.JamesBoyk.com
> >
> >Consider what might be the SPL at a mic position fractions of an inch
> >from various sources.
>
> And I am indeed forced to ask why people want to mike things fractions of
> an inch from a loud source when nobody listens to them that way.

Because IME in the live environment requiring sound reinforcement
mic'ing too closely is often the necessary norm. That's one reason for
the lack of sensitivity in the Josephson e22S. You can put nearly
against a guitar's top and it will give you untrashed signal.

I will agree that the signal is trashed from the gitgo by placement of
the mic, but I will take that over intermittent feedback.

> The exception maybe being the kick drum... nobody listens to the band with
> their head inside the kick drum but rock producers cut a hole in the kick
> and put the mike in there to get the sound of the mike overloading. The
> overload becomes an important part of the kick character. As a non-rock
> guy, I have to say I have always found this weird.
>
> Incidentally, Mr. Boyk, it is great seeing you back here!

Indeed.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic