1khz test tone off tape

[Simon]

I'm a bit inexperience with tape calibration. I ran 1khz test tones to
my tascam atr-60. The tones were solid on input to tape but playing
back both in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
"pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
does this mean? I clean the heads before every session, will a
calibration involving test tape resolve these issues or is there
something wrong with the heads?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Simon

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
> more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
> "pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
> does this mean?

The heads are worn, guides are dirty, or the servo is out of
adjustment.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
> more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
> "pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
> does this mean?

The heads are worn, guides are dirty, or the servo is out of
adjustment.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Roger W. Norman]

You can examine the heads and see, but obvious to me is that this machine
needs to go into the shop for a once-over and then perhaps, if the heads are
worn, have the repair tech ship them off to JRL Magnetics to see if they can
be relapped. More likely, however, is your servo controlled motors, whether
it be takeup or the capstan drive. Cleaning the capstan will somewhat
elmininate that as a problem from oxide buildup, but you'd be able to see
something that significant, I would assume. Call a tech, and with the
ATR60, find someone that will at least come to your studio and check it out.
And if you find one that will come out and is knowledgable, pay him to teach
you about your machine. It will be worth the money to learn, and the effort
on your part to keep it operating at optimum.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Simon" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm a bit inexperience with tape calibration. I ran 1khz test tones to
> my tascam atr-60. The tones were solid on input to tape but playing
> back both in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
> more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
> "pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
> does this mean? I clean the heads before every session, will a
> calibration involving test tape resolve these issues or is there
> something wrong with the heads?
>
> Any advice appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Simon

[Roger W. Norman]

You can examine the heads and see, but obvious to me is that this machine
needs to go into the shop for a once-over and then perhaps, if the heads are
worn, have the repair tech ship them off to JRL Magnetics to see if they can
be relapped. More likely, however, is your servo controlled motors, whether
it be takeup or the capstan drive. Cleaning the capstan will somewhat
elmininate that as a problem from oxide buildup, but you'd be able to see
something that significant, I would assume. Call a tech, and with the
ATR60, find someone that will at least come to your studio and check it out.
And if you find one that will come out and is knowledgable, pay him to teach
you about your machine. It will be worth the money to learn, and the effort
on your part to keep it operating at optimum.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Simon" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm a bit inexperience with tape calibration. I ran 1khz test tones to
> my tascam atr-60. The tones were solid on input to tape but playing
> back both in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
> more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
> "pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
> does this mean? I clean the heads before every session, will a
> calibration involving test tape resolve these issues or is there
> something wrong with the heads?
>
> Any advice appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Simon

[Mike Faithfull]

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
> You can examine the heads and see, but obvious to me is that this machine
> needs to go into the shop for a once-over and then perhaps, if the heads
are
> worn, have the repair tech ship them off to JRL Magnetics to see if they
can
> be relapped. More likely, however, is your servo controlled motors,
whether
> it be takeup or the capstan drive. Cleaning the capstan will somewhat
> elmininate that as a problem from oxide buildup, but you'd be able to see
> something that significant, I would assume. Call a tech, and with the
> ATR60, find someone that will at least come to your studio and check it
out.
> And if you find one that will come out and is knowledgable, pay him to
teach
> you about your machine. It will be worth the money to learn, and the
effort
> on your part to keep it operating at optimum.

I s'pose the tape was new and in perfect condition, so there is no
possibility that what you heard could have been caused by dropouts?

[Mike Faithfull]

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
> You can examine the heads and see, but obvious to me is that this machine
> needs to go into the shop for a once-over and then perhaps, if the heads
are
> worn, have the repair tech ship them off to JRL Magnetics to see if they
can
> be relapped. More likely, however, is your servo controlled motors,
whether
> it be takeup or the capstan drive. Cleaning the capstan will somewhat
> elmininate that as a problem from oxide buildup, but you'd be able to see
> something that significant, I would assume. Call a tech, and with the
> ATR60, find someone that will at least come to your studio and check it
out.
> And if you find one that will come out and is knowledgable, pay him to
teach
> you about your machine. It will be worth the money to learn, and the
effort
> on your part to keep it operating at optimum.

I s'pose the tape was new and in perfect condition, so there is no
possibility that what you heard could have been caused by dropouts?

[Scott Dorsey]

Simon > wrote:
>I'm a bit inexperience with tape calibration. I ran 1khz test tones to
>my tascam atr-60. The tones were solid on input to tape but playing
>back both in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
>more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
>"pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
>does this mean? I clean the heads before every session, will a
>calibration involving test tape resolve these issues or is there
>something wrong with the heads?

Maybe. Maybe you need a new pinch roller or new guides, or there is a
problem with an idler. But that is a sign that there is not good contact
between the head and the tape or the tape is wavering up and down. I'd
first check the heads and clean and lubricate the idlers. Do you hear
any bearing noise from anything?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Simon > wrote:
>I'm a bit inexperience with tape calibration. I ran 1khz test tones to
>my tascam atr-60. The tones were solid on input to tape but playing
>back both in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
>more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
>"pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
>does this mean? I clean the heads before every session, will a
>calibration involving test tape resolve these issues or is there
>something wrong with the heads?

Maybe. Maybe you need a new pinch roller or new guides, or there is a
problem with an idler. But that is a sign that there is not good contact
between the head and the tape or the tape is wavering up and down. I'd
first check the heads and clean and lubricate the idlers. Do you hear
any bearing noise from anything?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Steve]

(Simon) wrote in message >...
> I'm a bit inexperience with tape calibration. I ran 1khz test tones to
> my tascam atr-60. The tones were solid on input to tape but playing
> back both in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
> more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
> "pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
> does this mean? I clean the heads before every session, will a
> calibration involving test tape resolve these issues or is there
> something wrong with the heads?
>
> Any advice appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Simon

It's been a while since I did a line up on an ATR but I think that
0.5dB is about normal in record/play back mode. If you really want a
scare try 10k.
Pro lineup playtapes are full track and should not display this
problem.
Make sure your tape path is clean and your pinch roller is in good
order.
Even a very small amount of forward or backward tilt on the heads or
guides will cause the tape to rise and fall on the heads. This can
happen because of wear or misalignment of the heads.
Poor azimuth (head gap out of vertical) will cause a reduced HF
response
especially when the tape is played back on a correctly lined up
machine.
This is best set with a pro full track linup tape.
The glitch would be due to dropout because of dust or a tiny bad
section of tape.
Steady state tones are very revealing of even small errors in the tape
path.
Normal music is much more robust and I doubt you would hear those
small variations. Piano is much less tolerant of flutter and wow
(small and large speed variations).

Steve Lane

[Steve]

(Simon) wrote in message >...
> I'm a bit inexperience with tape calibration. I ran 1khz test tones to
> my tascam atr-60. The tones were solid on input to tape but playing
> back both in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
> more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
> "pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
> does this mean? I clean the heads before every session, will a
> calibration involving test tape resolve these issues or is there
> something wrong with the heads?
>
> Any advice appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Simon

It's been a while since I did a line up on an ATR but I think that
0.5dB is about normal in record/play back mode. If you really want a
scare try 10k.
Pro lineup playtapes are full track and should not display this
problem.
Make sure your tape path is clean and your pinch roller is in good
order.
Even a very small amount of forward or backward tilt on the heads or
guides will cause the tape to rise and fall on the heads. This can
happen because of wear or misalignment of the heads.
Poor azimuth (head gap out of vertical) will cause a reduced HF
response
especially when the tape is played back on a correctly lined up
machine.
This is best set with a pro full track linup tape.
The glitch would be due to dropout because of dust or a tiny bad
section of tape.
Steady state tones are very revealing of even small errors in the tape
path.
Normal music is much more robust and I doubt you would hear those
small variations. Piano is much less tolerant of flutter and wow
(small and large speed variations).

Steve Lane

[Roger W. Norman]

"Mike Faithfull" > wrote in message
...
> I s'pose the tape was new and in perfect condition, so there is no
> possibility that what you heard could have been caused by dropouts?


Generally dropouts don't cause speed fluxuations. It's mechanical, not due
to tape shred nor dropout as far as I can see, although tape shred is a
possibility if there's evidence of shredding.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

[Roger W. Norman]

"Mike Faithfull" > wrote in message
...
> I s'pose the tape was new and in perfect condition, so there is no
> possibility that what you heard could have been caused by dropouts?


Generally dropouts don't cause speed fluxuations. It's mechanical, not due
to tape shred nor dropout as far as I can see, although tape shred is a
possibility if there's evidence of shredding.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

[Roger W. Norman]

"Steve" > wrote in message
om...
> It's been a while since I did a line up on an ATR but I think that
> 0.5dB is about normal in record/play back mode. If you really want a
> scare try 10k.
> Pro lineup playtapes are full track and should not display this
> problem.
> Make sure your tape path is clean and your pinch roller is in good
> order.
> Even a very small amount of forward or backward tilt on the heads or
> guides will cause the tape to rise and fall on the heads. This can
> happen because of wear or misalignment of the heads.
> Poor azimuth (head gap out of vertical) will cause a reduced HF
> response
> especially when the tape is played back on a correctly lined up
> machine.
> This is best set with a pro full track linup tape.
> The glitch would be due to dropout because of dust or a tiny bad
> section of tape.
> Steady state tones are very revealing of even small errors in the tape
> path.
> Normal music is much more robust and I doubt you would hear those
> small variations. Piano is much less tolerant of flutter and wow
> (small and large speed variations).
>
> Steve Lane

Even my dinky little Tascam 38 doesn't exhibit the symptoms that Simon's
setup does. It's either tape path problems or mechanical.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

[Roger W. Norman]

"Steve" > wrote in message
om...
> It's been a while since I did a line up on an ATR but I think that
> 0.5dB is about normal in record/play back mode. If you really want a
> scare try 10k.
> Pro lineup playtapes are full track and should not display this
> problem.
> Make sure your tape path is clean and your pinch roller is in good
> order.
> Even a very small amount of forward or backward tilt on the heads or
> guides will cause the tape to rise and fall on the heads. This can
> happen because of wear or misalignment of the heads.
> Poor azimuth (head gap out of vertical) will cause a reduced HF
> response
> especially when the tape is played back on a correctly lined up
> machine.
> This is best set with a pro full track linup tape.
> The glitch would be due to dropout because of dust or a tiny bad
> section of tape.
> Steady state tones are very revealing of even small errors in the tape
> path.
> Normal music is much more robust and I doubt you would hear those
> small variations. Piano is much less tolerant of flutter and wow
> (small and large speed variations).
>
> Steve Lane

Even my dinky little Tascam 38 doesn't exhibit the symptoms that Simon's
setup does. It's either tape path problems or mechanical.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

[Eric K. Weber]

Is your tape stock new and has it been properly bulk erased.... when you say
wavering are you refering to the frequency wavering or just the amplitude?

Rgds:
Eric

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> om...
> > It's been a while since I did a line up on an ATR but I think that
> > 0.5dB is about normal in record/play back mode. If you really want a
> > scare try 10k.
> > Pro lineup playtapes are full track and should not display this
> > problem.
> > Make sure your tape path is clean and your pinch roller is in good
> > order.
> > Even a very small amount of forward or backward tilt on the heads or
> > guides will cause the tape to rise and fall on the heads. This can
> > happen because of wear or misalignment of the heads.
> > Poor azimuth (head gap out of vertical) will cause a reduced HF
> > response
> > especially when the tape is played back on a correctly lined up
> > machine.
> > This is best set with a pro full track linup tape.
> > The glitch would be due to dropout because of dust or a tiny bad
> > section of tape.
> > Steady state tones are very revealing of even small errors in the tape
> > path.
> > Normal music is much more robust and I doubt you would hear those
> > small variations. Piano is much less tolerant of flutter and wow
> > (small and large speed variations).
> >
> > Steve Lane
>
> Even my dinky little Tascam 38 doesn't exhibit the symptoms that Simon's
> setup does. It's either tape path problems or mechanical.
>
> --
>
>
> Roger W. Norman
> SirMusic Studio
> Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
> See how far $20 really goes.
>
>
>
>
>

[Eric K. Weber]

Is your tape stock new and has it been properly bulk erased.... when you say
wavering are you refering to the frequency wavering or just the amplitude?

Rgds:
Eric

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> om...
> > It's been a while since I did a line up on an ATR but I think that
> > 0.5dB is about normal in record/play back mode. If you really want a
> > scare try 10k.
> > Pro lineup playtapes are full track and should not display this
> > problem.
> > Make sure your tape path is clean and your pinch roller is in good
> > order.
> > Even a very small amount of forward or backward tilt on the heads or
> > guides will cause the tape to rise and fall on the heads. This can
> > happen because of wear or misalignment of the heads.
> > Poor azimuth (head gap out of vertical) will cause a reduced HF
> > response
> > especially when the tape is played back on a correctly lined up
> > machine.
> > This is best set with a pro full track linup tape.
> > The glitch would be due to dropout because of dust or a tiny bad
> > section of tape.
> > Steady state tones are very revealing of even small errors in the tape
> > path.
> > Normal music is much more robust and I doubt you would hear those
> > small variations. Piano is much less tolerant of flutter and wow
> > (small and large speed variations).
> >
> > Steve Lane
>
> Even my dinky little Tascam 38 doesn't exhibit the symptoms that Simon's
> setup does. It's either tape path problems or mechanical.
>
> --
>
>
> Roger W. Norman
> SirMusic Studio
> Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
> See how far $20 really goes.
>
>
>
>
>

[Mike Faithfull]

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
> "Mike Faithfull" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I s'pose the tape was new and in perfect condition, so there is no
> > possibility that what you heard could have been caused by dropouts?
>
>
> Generally dropouts don't cause speed fluxuations. It's mechanical, not
due
> to tape shred nor dropout as far as I can see, although tape shred is a
> possibility if there's evidence of shredding.

Of course you are quite right about dropouts not causing speed fluctuations
Roger. However, the OP didn't make it clear whether the 'wavering' was a
variation of frequency or amplitude. I've heard bad media produce what *I*
would call "warbling" of a pure tone on individual tracks, but *he* or
someone else might call it "wavering".

[Mike Faithfull]

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
> "Mike Faithfull" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I s'pose the tape was new and in perfect condition, so there is no
> > possibility that what you heard could have been caused by dropouts?
>
>
> Generally dropouts don't cause speed fluxuations. It's mechanical, not
due
> to tape shred nor dropout as far as I can see, although tape shred is a
> possibility if there's evidence of shredding.

Of course you are quite right about dropouts not causing speed fluctuations
Roger. However, the OP didn't make it clear whether the 'wavering' was a
variation of frequency or amplitude. I've heard bad media produce what *I*
would call "warbling" of a pure tone on individual tracks, but *he* or
someone else might call it "wavering".

[Roger W. Norman]

"Mike Faithfull" > wrote in message
...
> Of course you are quite right about dropouts not causing speed
fluctuations
> Roger. However, the OP didn't make it clear whether the 'wavering' was a
> variation of frequency or amplitude. I've heard bad media produce what
*I*
> would call "warbling" of a pure tone on individual tracks, but *he* or
> someone else might call it "wavering".

Well, he did mention amplitude, so there could be a tape based problem. I
guess my point was that a trip in by a tech should answer his questions, and
he should learn all he can in order to be able to maintain it himself,
particularly after he gets a bill for the first trip! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




>
>

[Roger W. Norman]

"Mike Faithfull" > wrote in message
...
> Of course you are quite right about dropouts not causing speed
fluctuations
> Roger. However, the OP didn't make it clear whether the 'wavering' was a
> variation of frequency or amplitude. I've heard bad media produce what
*I*
> would call "warbling" of a pure tone on individual tracks, but *he* or
> someone else might call it "wavering".

Well, he did mention amplitude, so there could be a tape based problem. I
guess my point was that a trip in by a tech should answer his questions, and
he should learn all he can in order to be able to maintain it himself,
particularly after he gets a bill for the first trip! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




>
>

[Pooh Bear]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article > writes:
>
> > in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
> > more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
> > "pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
> > does this mean?
>
> The heads are worn, guides are dirty, or the servo is out of
> adjustment.

And / or the guides are worn / misaligned too.

You can check the heads for wear by running your fingernail lightly up and down. If there's a
'ridge' or 'dip' you can feel in the tape path area that's head wear.


Graham

[Pooh Bear]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article > writes:
>
> > in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
> > more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
> > "pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
> > does this mean?
>
> The heads are worn, guides are dirty, or the servo is out of
> adjustment.

And / or the guides are worn / misaligned too.

You can check the heads for wear by running your fingernail lightly up and down. If there's a
'ridge' or 'dip' you can feel in the tape path area that's head wear.


Graham

[Pooh Bear]

Steve wrote:

>
> It's been a while since I did a line up on an ATR but I think that
> 0.5dB is about normal in record/play back mode.

No way playing back a test tape ! Should be rock solid on the VUs.

When I saw 'ATR' I wondered for a second if you meant an ATR100. Now *there* was a tape machine ! The following
comment illustrated that you weren't !


Graham

[Steve]

(Simon) wrote in message >...
> I'm a bit inexperience with tape calibration. I ran 1khz test tones to
> my tascam atr-60. The tones were solid on input to tape but playing
> back both in sync and repro mode I got a little wavering. Probably no
> more than .5db (if that some times) but audible and definately not
> "pure", sometimes there might be a little glitch sound as well. What
> does this mean? I clean the heads before every session, will a
> calibration involving test tape resolve these issues or is there
> something wrong with the heads?
>
> Any advice appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Simon

Its worth pointing out that the rotating tape spools can impose a
doppler shift on the any sound reflected from them. Quite noticable on
continuous tones. This effect obviously wont show on the meters. Its
best to use headphones to aviod any confusion.

Steve Lane

Steve Lane

[Steve]

Pooh Bear > wrote in message >...
> Steve wrote:
>
> >
> > It's been a while since I did a line up on an ATR but I think that
> > 0.5dB is about normal in record/play back mode.
>
> No way playing back a test tape ! Should be rock solid on the VUs.

I agree.I did point this out, but on a track width of only about 0.05"
or less (8trk 1/2") or less it is a tall order to get perfect
stability on tones recorded on the same machine. A lot depends on the
quality of the tape. But even a small amount of wear or misalignment
will produce the effect.

> When I saw 'ATR' I wondered for a second if you meant an ATR100. Now *there* was a tape machine ! The following
> comment illustrated that you weren't !

Yup :-)

> Graham

Steve Lane