College radio CD submissions.

[John Smith]

I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
submission to college radio PDs.

--
Mick Davies
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/


"Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive than
our eyes..."

Luigi Russolo, 1913

[Mick Davies]

Who was that masked man ;) Still looking for answers.

--
Mick Davies
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/


"Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive than
our eyes..."

Luigi Russolo, 1913
"John Smith" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> submission to college radio PDs.
>
> --
> Mick Davies
> http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/
>
>
> "Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive
than
> our eyes..."
>
> Luigi Russolo, 1913
>
>

[Mick Davies]

Who was that masked man ;) Still looking for answers.

--
Mick Davies
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/


"Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive than
our eyes..."

Luigi Russolo, 1913
"John Smith" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> submission to college radio PDs.
>
> --
> Mick Davies
> http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/
>
>
> "Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive
than
> our eyes..."
>
> Luigi Russolo, 1913
>
>

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

John Smith > wrote:

> I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> submission to college radio PDs.

I've discovered that if you give the Music Director an internship in
your studio, it doesn't much matter what kind of packaging you use when
you hand him your CD. Still doesn't mean he'll play it, though.


ulysses

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

John Smith > wrote:

> I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> submission to college radio PDs.

I've discovered that if you give the Music Director an internship in
your studio, it doesn't much matter what kind of packaging you use when
you hand him your CD. Still doesn't mean he'll play it, though.


ulysses

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> submission to college radio PDs.

College radio has standards? <g>

They're probably less impressed by slick inserts than the commercial
stations, but the package should look neat, the text easy to read, and
the insert informative. Generally jocks on college and other
independent stations tend to like to sound as if they really know a
lot about the artist they're playing, so make that easier for them.

Also, if it's a CD-R, try it in a bunch of different players to boost
your confidence that it will play at the station. Often college
station gear isn't in the best of shape or might be old.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> submission to college radio PDs.

College radio has standards? <g>

They're probably less impressed by slick inserts than the commercial
stations, but the package should look neat, the text easy to read, and
the insert informative. Generally jocks on college and other
independent stations tend to like to sound as if they really know a
lot about the artist they're playing, so make that easier for them.

Also, if it's a CD-R, try it in a bunch of different players to boost
your confidence that it will play at the station. Often college
station gear isn't in the best of shape or might be old.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[BananaHead]

"John Smith" > wrote in message >...
> I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> submission to college radio PDs.


John,

1. Make a press release with 1-3 suggested listens, note any songs w/
potty words.
2. Unwrap the CD (they don't dig unwrapping 50 CDs a day as they
aren't paid)
3. Hole punch the bar code so you CD does not get used for beer money
4. Put the press release and CD in a standard padded envelope
5. Address it to the music director that handles your style of music
6. Put the style of music on the front of the package.

Ex: Attn: Music director / Underground Rock

Do a follow up call in two weeks and inquire if they have added your
release.

If you are talking about manufacturing: no home pressed cdrs, a real
pressing, make the name on the spine big as it'll get lost in the
large music libraries, vinyl is good, track listing easy to find and
NUMBERED.

-BH

[BananaHead]

"John Smith" > wrote in message >...
> I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> submission to college radio PDs.


John,

1. Make a press release with 1-3 suggested listens, note any songs w/
potty words.
2. Unwrap the CD (they don't dig unwrapping 50 CDs a day as they
aren't paid)
3. Hole punch the bar code so you CD does not get used for beer money
4. Put the press release and CD in a standard padded envelope
5. Address it to the music director that handles your style of music
6. Put the style of music on the front of the package.

Ex: Attn: Music director / Underground Rock

Do a follow up call in two weeks and inquire if they have added your
release.

If you are talking about manufacturing: no home pressed cdrs, a real
pressing, make the name on the spine big as it'll get lost in the
large music libraries, vinyl is good, track listing easy to find and
NUMBERED.

-BH

[John Payne]

Since I am not that far removed from doing the college radio thing: We
always preferred background and description of the band over credits
or pictures of the band playing with celebrities. So much of college
radio can be about 'being indie' so looking too professional could
actually hurt you. every person at the station wanted to be the one to
'discover' a band. On the other hand they would only look for new
music in the genre they liked, so be as specific as you can, which is
of course the hardest part.



(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1066390522k@trad>...
> In article > writes:
>
> > I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> > submission to college radio PDs.
>
> College radio has standards? <g>
>
> They're probably less impressed by slick inserts than the commercial
> stations, but the package should look neat, the text easy to read, and
> the insert informative. Generally jocks on college and other
> independent stations tend to like to sound as if they really know a
> lot about the artist they're playing, so make that easier for them.
>
> Also, if it's a CD-R, try it in a bunch of different players to boost
> your confidence that it will play at the station. Often college
> station gear isn't in the best of shape or might be old.

[John Payne]

Since I am not that far removed from doing the college radio thing: We
always preferred background and description of the band over credits
or pictures of the band playing with celebrities. So much of college
radio can be about 'being indie' so looking too professional could
actually hurt you. every person at the station wanted to be the one to
'discover' a band. On the other hand they would only look for new
music in the genre they liked, so be as specific as you can, which is
of course the hardest part.



(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1066390522k@trad>...
> In article > writes:
>
> > I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> > submission to college radio PDs.
>
> College radio has standards? <g>
>
> They're probably less impressed by slick inserts than the commercial
> stations, but the package should look neat, the text easy to read, and
> the insert informative. Generally jocks on college and other
> independent stations tend to like to sound as if they really know a
> lot about the artist they're playing, so make that easier for them.
>
> Also, if it's a CD-R, try it in a bunch of different players to boost
> your confidence that it will play at the station. Often college
> station gear isn't in the best of shape or might be old.

[Patric D'Eimon]

<SNIP>

Go to your local record store and ask the manager to see what a "One Sheet"
is. It is the sheet of paper that come with the CD's they get sent that has
all the pertinent info on it. It describes the music, has track listings,
timings, has a descriptive sentance or paragraph about each of the tracks,
mentions if the track is up tempo, ballad etc, has contact info, radio play
info, distribution, record company and management info all on one sheet.

Check out several of them from genre's that are similar to yours and ask if
you can make a xerox copy or take some of them home. Then copy them in
making your own One Sheet. Include all the information they have on them on
yours and make it look great.

Use the original graphics from your CD, cover and back, and make it a great
looking package. It is just as important to marketing your product in
stores and radio as having cover artwork is to your CD.

The DJ's need to be able to zero in on what might be of interest to them
without having to listen to all the tracks to find that out. If you guide
them to the most interesting tracks right off the bat they might be more
inclined to check the other tracks out later.

Local record stores get a One Sheet for every CD they have. It is the best
place to research this valuable marketing tool. Don't scrimp. Record
stores and radio stations, college, alternative, public radio and all the
rest still look for professionalism and presentation regardless of how "home
grown" or counter (as in un-) commercial your music may be.

Good luck. BTW don't let ANYTHING discourage you. Patric

[Patric D'Eimon]

<SNIP>

Go to your local record store and ask the manager to see what a "One Sheet"
is. It is the sheet of paper that come with the CD's they get sent that has
all the pertinent info on it. It describes the music, has track listings,
timings, has a descriptive sentance or paragraph about each of the tracks,
mentions if the track is up tempo, ballad etc, has contact info, radio play
info, distribution, record company and management info all on one sheet.

Check out several of them from genre's that are similar to yours and ask if
you can make a xerox copy or take some of them home. Then copy them in
making your own One Sheet. Include all the information they have on them on
yours and make it look great.

Use the original graphics from your CD, cover and back, and make it a great
looking package. It is just as important to marketing your product in
stores and radio as having cover artwork is to your CD.

The DJ's need to be able to zero in on what might be of interest to them
without having to listen to all the tracks to find that out. If you guide
them to the most interesting tracks right off the bat they might be more
inclined to check the other tracks out later.

Local record stores get a One Sheet for every CD they have. It is the best
place to research this valuable marketing tool. Don't scrimp. Record
stores and radio stations, college, alternative, public radio and all the
rest still look for professionalism and presentation regardless of how "home
grown" or counter (as in un-) commercial your music may be.

Good luck. BTW don't let ANYTHING discourage you. Patric

[Jim Gilliland]

John Smith wrote:

> I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> submission to college radio PDs.

That's simple - just make it easy for the DJs to play your CD:

Make the cover art appropriate for the genre, so that DJs can easily
tell whether or not your music might fit their format.

Make the track listing legible. Provide track times. Number the
listing, and make doubly sure that it actually matches what's on the disc!

Make the spine of the CD legible, and with good contrast. And
rightside-up, please - you'd be surprised how many CDs we get with the
spine printed upside down. It's a very common mistake, and a very
costly one. Those CDs get lost in the library and never come out again.

Consider sending an extra copy directly to a DJ who you think might be
the most likely to play your music. If he or she gets to know it at
home or in the car, then you have a much better chance of actually
getting it played.

Do what you can to make your music accessible. I strongly suggest that
new artists include a cover or two of someone else's work among their
own original material. That has a number of advantages, but the biggest
is that it allows an "entry point" for someone who is trying to become
familiar with your work.

Finally, remember that the DJs first priority is providing quality music
to his/her listeners. If the DJ doesn't find your material to have that
level of quality, then none of the above advice will make any difference
whatsoever. The quality of the songs, the quality of the performance,
and the quality of the production all come into play.

Good luck with your music.

[Geoff Duncan]

<SNIP>
> Make the spine of the CD legible, and with good contrast. And
> rightside-up, please - you'd be surprised how many CDs we get with the
> spine printed upside down. It's a very common mistake, and a very
> costly one. Those CDs get lost in the library and never come out again.
>

Thats wierd, all the CDs on my shelf have the spine text LEFT side up, ie
get read downwards.

Am I missing something?


Geoff

[Geoff Duncan]

"Geoff Duncan" > wrote in message
...
>
> <SNIP>
> > Make the spine of the CD legible, and with good contrast. And
> > rightside-up, please - you'd be surprised how many CDs we get with the
> > spine printed upside down. It's a very common mistake, and a very
> > costly one. Those CDs get lost in the library and never come out again.
> >
>
> Thats wierd, all the CDs on my shelf have the spine text LEFT side up, ie
> get read downwards.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
>
> Geoff
>

duh

I get it.

Rightside of spine = up

sorry.


Geoff
>

[Jim Gilliland]

Geoff Duncan wrote:

>>Make the spine of the CD legible, and with good contrast. And
>>rightside-up, please - you'd be surprised how many CDs we get with the
>>spine printed upside down. It's a very common mistake, and a very
>>costly one. Those CDs get lost in the library and never come out again.
>>
> Thats wierd, all the CDs on my shelf have the spine text LEFT side up, ie
> get read downwards.
>
> Am I missing something?

I'm not sure if you're being flippant or if you really didn't
understand, but my use of the word "right" was intended to imply
"correct" rather than "the opposite of left". OK?

Yes, the text should read from top to bottom on the hinged edge of the
CD case, and from bottom to top on the other edge.

Or, looking at it from the actual layout of the back panel, the text on
the left edge should run from bottom to top, and on the right edge it
should run from top to bottom.

[BananaHead]

> I'm not sure if you're being flippant or if you really didn't understand


Bwahahaha, you guys crack me up.

Yes, what he said... and BIG FONT.

[Stephen Raiman]

I am a college radio program director. Here's the deal:

1. Get it packaged and pressed professionally. This is key. We get a
lot of CDs, and there are levels of "cuts". The first cut usually gets
rid of amateur looking CDs. I know this may sound contrary to college
radio's indie credo, but we just can't look at everything, and amateur
looking CDs are the first to be disqualified. The exception to this
rule is: if you know someone at the station who will listen to it
based on your recommendation, then you get past the initial "packaging
cut"

2. If you are serious about getting widespread airplay and getting
charted in CMJ, then you should hire one of the college radio
promotion companies to work your record. They have relationships with
hte music directors, and can get your record played much easier.

3. Send it to the appropriate music director. Each category has
someone handling the rotation and charts. The head music director
handles the top 30 rotation (mostly indie rock, the chart that makes
up the CMJ Radio 200). The two other main categories are: Loud Rock
(college radio name for hard rock, metal, hardcore, etc.)and Hip-Hop.
Minor categories include: jazz, RPM (electronica, dance, techno,
etc.), and Latin Alternative. If you hire a promo company, they will
know which category to put it in, and who to send it to.

4. Offering a phone interview can be a good way to get some attention.
Call the program director and offer one. If you're in town, offer to
come into the studio to play a quick set (even if it's jsut an
acoustic one). These are little things that can win the favor of a
MD/PD.

[EggHd]

<< I am a college radio program director. Here's the deal: >>

It's still the record biz no matter what level.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Jim Gilliland]

EggHd wrote:

> << I am a college radio program director. Here's the deal: >>
>
> It's still the record biz no matter what level.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't base my assessment on Stephen's description of
the situation. I don't doubt that he's completely correct for his
station, but his station appears to be far from typical.

At most college stations, the DJs themselves select the music - with no
direction whatsoever from the "program director". So unless a promo
person is able to get directly to the DJ, they won't have a lot of impact.

At my station, no CDs are "cut" from those submitted to us. If you send
us a CD, it will be made available for airplay. It may or may not get
played, but it won't get tossed. I think a lot more college stations
operate like mine than like Stephen's.

I'm not talking about big NPR affiliates, but independent college
stations. Yes, we have specific people who deal with specific genres,
but that's just so the work gets divided. There's no "authority" that
goes along with those positions.

[BananaHead]

Jim Gilliland > wrote in message >...
> EggHd wrote:
>
> > << I am a college radio program director. Here's the deal: >>
> >
> > It's still the record biz no matter what level.
>
> Perhaps, but I wouldn't base my assessment on Stephen's description of
> the situation. I don't doubt that he's completely correct for his
> station, but his station appears to be far from typical.

I really hate to be one to differ. But as a former college radio dj,
and one who is still connected with people in these positions, and one
who mails large numbers of CDs out to college stations... the guys
assessment is dead on.

> At most college stations, the DJs themselves select the music - with no
> direction whatsoever from the "program director".

Again, this is so very very rare. 95% of college stations have the
music director as the gatekeeper. You must get past the gatekeeper or
the DJs will never know your music exists. Once in, sure, the DJs (at
most stations) can and do play whatever the hell they wanna.

While serving at a college radio station for three years both of my
best friends were music directors. I'd come help them wade through
new arrivals as it was an overbearing task. TOO MUCH NEW MUSIC!
There have to be cuts made and they have to be made now... cause we
got beer to drink.

Anything semi-pro... home pressed... garbage can... unless local.
Anything blatantly commercial-cheese (a glossy cover with some chick
on a car and a press release about how much of a genius this chick
is)... garbage can (unless it's a name that you can sell for $3 at the
local record store for beer money). After that they get maybe one
song played for 30 seconds MAX. Sounds familiar? Sounds rip off?
Garbage can or sell pile. If something catches your ear maybe you
play 30 seconds of 3 songs. What's left after all the cuts are the
winers. These will sometimes be taken home by a diligent music
director and listened to in full on headphones one night, a review
will be written and placed on the cd with a stickie and some tape. In
the next DJ meeting the DJs will be presented with the winners and
given some recommendations by the music directors of the really PHAT
CUTS.

I have in my of contacting hundreds of stations heard of ONE or TWO
stations that just put EVERYTHING out in the bins and let the DJs play
whatever. Whatever starts rising to the top stays and whatever don't
gets cut. I believe KTUH in Hawaii is still this way. Probably cause
not many people send them a CD. Everything I've ever sent them has
charted high! Hell, must have low standards :). God knows the big
ones can't work like this.

Radio interviews, very smart. Call the music directors if you want to
get added, be a nice guy, send them free ****, offer to play inhouse
when you come through town, send him a mix tape of your favorite new
bands he's never heard of. Like Egg said, it's the "music biz" but
the diff is once through the music director, the DJ PLAYS WHAT HE/SHE
LIKES. So if you don't suck non-commercial radio is your friend.

-BH

[Mick Davies]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm afraid that my packaging is of the "CD
single" variety, slimline with no real "spine". Its actually an EP with 4
"songs" (pieces really, they're a bit abstract so I can't in good conscience
call them songs) which is why I justified the "CD single" style but I've
only just begun the packaging. Its total DIY so I'm not sure how I would go
about packaging in a regular jewel case because of the folding tolerances
regarding the back insert/spine.

--
Mick Davies
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/


"Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive than
our eyes..."

Luigi Russolo, 1913
"Mick Davies" > wrote in message
om...
> Who was that masked man ;) Still looking for answers.
>
> --
> Mick Davies
> http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/
>
>
> "Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive
than
> our eyes..."
>
> Luigi Russolo, 1913
> "John Smith" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I'm interested in knowing what the standard is for packaging a CD for
> > submission to college radio PDs.
> >
> > --
> > Mick Davies
> > http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/
> >
> >
> > "Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive
> than
> > our eyes..."
> >
> > Luigi Russolo, 1913
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm afraid that my packaging is of the "CD
> single" variety, slimline with no real "spine". Its actually an EP with 4
> "songs" (pieces really, they're a bit abstract so I can't in good conscience
> call them songs) which is why I justified the "CD single" style

This sounds like something that you should give directly to a DJ that
you think would play it. Listen to the local stations, find a show
where you think your music would fit, call the DJ, introduce yourself
as a local artist, and ask if you can send a CD to him or her
personally. Chances are it will get played once. If they like it, it
will get played again. If not, it'll go in the bit bucket.

If you actually get some local following (like you get more than one
station playing it), then you can write up a press release, package it
nicely, and put it into the hands of a publicist who handles college
and other independent stations.

It's going to be a big investment in cash. It's very rare that one is
successful totally DIY. If you're committed, get the money. Otherwise,
get some gigs and sell it off the stage.

> Its total DIY so I'm not sure how I would go
> about packaging in a regular jewel case because of the folding tolerances
> regarding the back insert/spine.

You'll never do as good a job as a professional print shop, and a
print shop will want to run at least 1000 copies in order to make the
price reasonable. However, you can trim and fold a few by hand and
make it work. It won't impress someone who makes the first decision
based on appearance, but it will show an individual DJ who gets your
project in hand what it is, who you are, and how to find you.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Scott Dorsey]

BananaHead > wrote:
>
>I really hate to be one to differ. But as a former college radio dj,
>and one who is still connected with people in these positions, and one
>who mails large numbers of CDs out to college stations... the guys
>assessment is dead on.
>
>> At most college stations, the DJs themselves select the music - with no
>> direction whatsoever from the "program director".
>
>Again, this is so very very rare. 95% of college stations have the
>music director as the gatekeeper. You must get past the gatekeeper or
>the DJs will never know your music exists. Once in, sure, the DJs (at
>most stations) can and do play whatever the hell they wanna.

Most of the college stations I have seen have an A list and a B list, and
a certain number of these need to be played. These are usually selected by
the program directors (and sometimes by the whole staff by vote in a listening
session, which is a bad idea if you ask me). Then the DJs can play whatever
else they want out of the library to fill up the rest of the time.

Getting to a single DJ will get your disc played on his program. Getting to
the PD will get your disc played on a lot of programs.

>Anything semi-pro... home pressed... garbage can... unless local.
>Anything blatantly commercial-cheese (a glossy cover with some chick
>on a car and a press release about how much of a genius this chick
>is)... garbage can (unless it's a name that you can sell for $3 at the
>local record store for beer money). After that they get maybe one
>song played for 30 seconds MAX. Sounds familiar? Sounds rip off?

Most college stations will instantly dump anything that looks really commercial,
it's true.

LPs get more attention than CDs, just because they pop out of the pile a lot.
For some reason, although quick and dirty CD-Rs almost always get pitched,
LP test pressings are more likely to get attention than average.

>I have in my of contacting hundreds of stations heard of ONE or TWO
>stations that just put EVERYTHING out in the bins and let the DJs play
>whatever. Whatever starts rising to the top stays and whatever don't
>gets cut. I believe KTUH in Hawaii is still this way. Probably cause
>not many people send them a CD. Everything I've ever sent them has
>charted high! Hell, must have low standards :). God knows the big
>ones can't work like this.

College radio stations are all over the map. Some are run pretty much like
commercial stations. Some are run entirely by vote of the DJs. Most of them
are somewhere in-between.

>Radio interviews, very smart. Call the music directors if you want to
>get added, be a nice guy, send them free ****, offer to play inhouse
>when you come through town, send him a mix tape of your favorite new
>bands he's never heard of. Like Egg said, it's the "music biz" but
>the diff is once through the music director, the DJ PLAYS WHAT HE/SHE
>LIKES. So if you don't suck non-commercial radio is your friend.

At WREK, we had a whole section of Fugs records, which were all marked
DO NOT PLAY ON AIR: EVERY TRACK IS FILTHY. But they were still in the
station library anyway. Don't ask me why. I suppose these days you could
actually play them on-air so it's a good thing they were kept.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Stephen Raiman]

> LPs get more attention than CDs, just because they pop out of the pile a lot.
> For some reason, although quick and dirty CD-Rs almost always get pitched,
> LP test pressings are more likely to get attention than average.

Interestingly, around here LPs are typically used as swag for the
hip-hop and rpm directors.

[BananaHead]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message >...
> At WREK, we had a whole section of Fugs records, which were all marked
> DO NOT PLAY ON AIR: EVERY TRACK IS FILTHY. But they were still in the
> station library anyway.


We had a 12" by the band ****, we could play it, but we couldn't say who it was.

-BH

[Scott Dorsey]

Stephen Raiman > wrote:
>> LPs get more attention than CDs, just because they pop out of the pile a lot.
>> For some reason, although quick and dirty CD-Rs almost always get pitched,
>> LP test pressings are more likely to get attention than average.
>
>Interestingly, around here LPs are typically used as swag for the
>hip-hop and rpm directors.

Hmmm... does this get any club play?

Around here, there basically are no dance clubs and the only outlets for
that stuff are on college radio. But this is the middle of nowhere, too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Stephen Raiman]

> Hmmm... does this get any club play?

Probably. Our last couple hip-hop directors have also been club DJs. I
know at least one club in town (small town too) that gets free wax
sent to them to spin.