selecting a live vocal mic

[db:southcongress]

hi,

i'm looking to get a vocal mic and maybe a compressor/delay rack to
bring with me on shows...until we can enlist a sound guy. i would
like to be able to hand the 'sound guy of the night' a rack and
say.."run the vocals through this and i'll be using my own mic".

Most venues have sm58 which don't really work all that well for my
voice. i sing in a fairly high register and i need a mic that has a
lot of warmth so i don't sound airy. esp. when i'm belting it out.

when we recorded our demo, the engineers went through five mics until
they found one that fit...it ended up being a super fancy bass drum
mic...just to give an idea.

with that said, i'm looking for any suggestions as to how we can make
our live performance vocally CONSISTANT. people will tell me "i
couldn't hear the vocals", or the "vocals were muffled", or "there was
too much high/mid range", or "they sounded incredible", or "they
sounded thin" etc. i know some of this has to do with the soundguy,
pa, speakers, room, audience, and more. but i would like to reduce
the number of variables.

please don't take this the wrong way as i'm not shamelessly trying to
promote my band, but i have mp3 to download at www.southcongress.com
to get an idea of what kind of stuff i'm doing live.

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated


dave

[mdrainer]

Link to MP3 on your site are no good.


"db:southcongress" > wrote in message
om...
> hi,
>
> i'm looking to get a vocal mic and maybe a compressor/delay rack to
> bring with me on shows...until we can enlist a sound guy. i would
> like to be able to hand the 'sound guy of the night' a rack and
> say.."run the vocals through this and i'll be using my own mic".
>
> Most venues have sm58 which don't really work all that well for my
> voice. i sing in a fairly high register and i need a mic that has a
> lot of warmth so i don't sound airy. esp. when i'm belting it out.
>
> when we recorded our demo, the engineers went through five mics until
> they found one that fit...it ended up being a super fancy bass drum
> mic...just to give an idea.
>
> with that said, i'm looking for any suggestions as to how we can make
> our live performance vocally CONSISTANT. people will tell me "i
> couldn't hear the vocals", or the "vocals were muffled", or "there was
> too much high/mid range", or "they sounded incredible", or "they
> sounded thin" etc. i know some of this has to do with the soundguy,
> pa, speakers, room, audience, and more. but i would like to reduce
> the number of variables.
>
> please don't take this the wrong way as i'm not shamelessly trying to
> promote my band, but i have mp3 to download at www.southcongress.com
> to get an idea of what kind of stuff i'm doing live.
>
> any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
>
>
> dave

[George Gleason]

"db:southcongress" > wrote in message
om...
> hi,
>
> i'm looking to get a vocal mic and maybe a compressor/delay rack to
> bring with me on shows...until we can enlist a sound guy. i would
> like to be able to hand the 'sound guy of the night' a rack and
> say.."run the vocals through this and i'll be using my own mic".
>
> Most venues have sm58 which don't really work all that well for my
> voice. i sing in a fairly high register and i need a mic that has a
> lot of warmth so i don't sound airy. esp. when i'm belting it out.
>
> when we recorded our demo, the engineers went through five mics until
> they found one that fit...it ended up being a super fancy bass drum
> mic...just to give an idea.
>
> with that said, i'm looking for any suggestions as to how we can make
> our live performance vocally CONSISTANT. people will tell me "i
> couldn't hear the vocals", or the "vocals were muffled", or "there was
> too much high/mid range", or "they sounded incredible", or "they
> sounded thin" etc. i know some of this has to do with the soundguy,
> pa, speakers, room, audience, and more. but i would like to reduce
> the number of variables.
>
> please don't take this the wrong way as i'm not shamelessly trying to
> promote my band, but i have mp3 to download at www.southcongress.com
> to get an idea of what kind of stuff i'm doing live.
>
> any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
>
>
Look at the AT5100, sennheiser 865 and audix vx-10
George

[George Gleason]

"db:southcongress" > wrote in message
om...
> hi,
>
> i'm looking to get a vocal mic and maybe a compressor/delay rack to
> bring with me on shows...until we can enlist a sound guy. i would
> like to be able to hand the 'sound guy of the night' a rack and
> say.."run the vocals through this and i'll be using my own mic".
>
> Most venues have sm58 which don't really work all that well for my
> voice. i sing in a fairly high register and i need a mic that has a
> lot of warmth so i don't sound airy. esp. when i'm belting it out.
>
> when we recorded our demo, the engineers went through five mics until
> they found one that fit...it ended up being a super fancy bass drum
> mic...just to give an idea.
>
> with that said, i'm looking for any suggestions as to how we can make
> our live performance vocally CONSISTANT. people will tell me "i
> couldn't hear the vocals", or the "vocals were muffled", or "there was
> too much high/mid range", or "they sounded incredible", or "they
> sounded thin" etc. i know some of this has to do with the soundguy,
> pa, speakers, room, audience, and more. but i would like to reduce
> the number of variables.
>
> please don't take this the wrong way as i'm not shamelessly trying to
> promote my band, but i have mp3 to download at www.southcongress.com
> to get an idea of what kind of stuff i'm doing live.
>
> any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
>
>
Look at the AT5100, sennheiser 865 and audix vx-10
George

[Raymond]

"db:southcongress" > wrote
> i'm looking to get a vocal mic and maybe a compressor/delay rack to
>> bring with me on shows...until we can enlist a sound guy. i would
>> like to be able to hand the 'sound guy of the night' a rack and
>> say.."run the vocals through this and i'll be using my own mic".
>>
>> Most venues have sm58 which don't really work all that well for my
>> voice. i sing in a fairly high register and i need a mic that has a
>> lot of warmth so i don't sound airy. esp. when i'm belting it out.

Did you try a $100.00 SM 57 with a windscreen? (held on by a rubber band) This
is one of the cheapest, consistent and versatile mics I can think of. Maybe
telling your sound man (regardless as to who he may be) that your going to set
everything up your self is not a good idea (unless you just want to **** him
off).
Night clubs will have different acoustics from one club to another so just
start out by seeing how things are at each place you perform before you go
telling everyone what to do. This is mainly a recording forum but many of us
(like me) have done live stage production as well.

[Raymond]

"db:southcongress" > wrote
> i'm looking to get a vocal mic and maybe a compressor/delay rack to
>> bring with me on shows...until we can enlist a sound guy. i would
>> like to be able to hand the 'sound guy of the night' a rack and
>> say.."run the vocals through this and i'll be using my own mic".
>>
>> Most venues have sm58 which don't really work all that well for my
>> voice. i sing in a fairly high register and i need a mic that has a
>> lot of warmth so i don't sound airy. esp. when i'm belting it out.

Did you try a $100.00 SM 57 with a windscreen? (held on by a rubber band) This
is one of the cheapest, consistent and versatile mics I can think of. Maybe
telling your sound man (regardless as to who he may be) that your going to set
everything up your self is not a good idea (unless you just want to **** him
off).
Night clubs will have different acoustics from one club to another so just
start out by seeing how things are at each place you perform before you go
telling everyone what to do. This is mainly a recording forum but many of us
(like me) have done live stage production as well.

[Ron Capik]

Raymond wrote:

> < ...snip.. >
> (unless
> you just want to **** him
> off).
> Night clubs will have different acoustics from one club to another so just
> start out by seeing how things are at each place you perform before you go
> telling everyone what to do. This is mainly a recording forum but many of us
> (like me) have done live stage production as well.

To me this sounds like great advice. Keep the local sound person as your
ally. I would hope that the sound person at any given venue knows the room
very well. Try to communicate your needs, style, etc. to this person first. If it
ain't workin' move to plan "B" but try to communicate first. The local sound
crew may know things about the venue that may help you get the sound you're
looking for. I know I know my room very well, and thus know what does and
doesn't work there...
Blow me off and I may just give you "common" sound... or worst, you may get
what you asked for. ;-)
[ Then too, the local sound person could be a jerk; then all bets are off. ]

Ron Capik
--

[Ron Capik]

Raymond wrote:

> < ...snip.. >
> (unless
> you just want to **** him
> off).
> Night clubs will have different acoustics from one club to another so just
> start out by seeing how things are at each place you perform before you go
> telling everyone what to do. This is mainly a recording forum but many of us
> (like me) have done live stage production as well.

To me this sounds like great advice. Keep the local sound person as your
ally. I would hope that the sound person at any given venue knows the room
very well. Try to communicate your needs, style, etc. to this person first. If it
ain't workin' move to plan "B" but try to communicate first. The local sound
crew may know things about the venue that may help you get the sound you're
looking for. I know I know my room very well, and thus know what does and
doesn't work there...
Blow me off and I may just give you "common" sound... or worst, you may get
what you asked for. ;-)
[ Then too, the local sound person could be a jerk; then all bets are off. ]

Ron Capik
--

[et tu]

....sorry, they work now...


"mdrainer" > wrote in message
m...
> Link to MP3 on your site are no good.
>
>
> "db:southcongress" > wrote in message
> om...
> > hi,
> >
> > i'm looking to get a vocal mic and maybe a compressor/delay rack to
> > bring with me on shows...until we can enlist a sound guy. i would
> > like to be able to hand the 'sound guy of the night' a rack and
> > say.."run the vocals through this and i'll be using my own mic".
> >
> > Most venues have sm58 which don't really work all that well for my
> > voice. i sing in a fairly high register and i need a mic that has a
> > lot of warmth so i don't sound airy. esp. when i'm belting it out.
> >
> > when we recorded our demo, the engineers went through five mics until
> > they found one that fit...it ended up being a super fancy bass drum
> > mic...just to give an idea.
> >
> > with that said, i'm looking for any suggestions as to how we can make
> > our live performance vocally CONSISTANT. people will tell me "i
> > couldn't hear the vocals", or the "vocals were muffled", or "there was
> > too much high/mid range", or "they sounded incredible", or "they
> > sounded thin" etc. i know some of this has to do with the soundguy,
> > pa, speakers, room, audience, and more. but i would like to reduce
> > the number of variables.
> >
> > please don't take this the wrong way as i'm not shamelessly trying to
> > promote my band, but i have mp3 to download at www.southcongress.com
> > to get an idea of what kind of stuff i'm doing live.
> >
> > any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
> >
> >
> > dave
>
>

[et tu]

....sorry, they work now...


"mdrainer" > wrote in message
m...
> Link to MP3 on your site are no good.
>
>
> "db:southcongress" > wrote in message
> om...
> > hi,
> >
> > i'm looking to get a vocal mic and maybe a compressor/delay rack to
> > bring with me on shows...until we can enlist a sound guy. i would
> > like to be able to hand the 'sound guy of the night' a rack and
> > say.."run the vocals through this and i'll be using my own mic".
> >
> > Most venues have sm58 which don't really work all that well for my
> > voice. i sing in a fairly high register and i need a mic that has a
> > lot of warmth so i don't sound airy. esp. when i'm belting it out.
> >
> > when we recorded our demo, the engineers went through five mics until
> > they found one that fit...it ended up being a super fancy bass drum
> > mic...just to give an idea.
> >
> > with that said, i'm looking for any suggestions as to how we can make
> > our live performance vocally CONSISTANT. people will tell me "i
> > couldn't hear the vocals", or the "vocals were muffled", or "there was
> > too much high/mid range", or "they sounded incredible", or "they
> > sounded thin" etc. i know some of this has to do with the soundguy,
> > pa, speakers, room, audience, and more. but i would like to reduce
> > the number of variables.
> >
> > please don't take this the wrong way as i'm not shamelessly trying to
> > promote my band, but i have mp3 to download at www.southcongress.com
> > to get an idea of what kind of stuff i'm doing live.
> >
> > any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
> >
> >
> > dave
>
>

[db:southcongress]

both of you are absolutely right. i do try to communicate with the soundguy
prior to show, but sometime it just doesn't work out and i won't know until
the show's over. i guess i'm trying to eliminate the "yeah, man...i'm doing
sound at (insert venue) a couple nights week, most of the bands suck but i
get some experience, you know" factor. i certainly don't want to come off
as a pompous asshole to the soundguy, but i also don't want to sound like
**** on stage for any other reason than my own.

with that said...would there be certain 'suggestions' i could make without
belittling the soundguy, ie. "could we try setting the compressor at x,y,z"?
and so on. like i said before, i'm just trying to make things consistent.
and if i used a mic that i know where the soundfield is, that adds a level
of consistance in and of itself.

thanks for you time and thoughtfulness.




"Ron Capik" > wrote in message
...
> Raymond wrote:
>
> > < ...snip.. >
> >
(unless
> > you just want to **** him
> > off).
> > Night clubs will have different acoustics from one club to another so
just
> > start out by seeing how things are at each place you perform before you
go
> > telling everyone what to do. This is mainly a recording forum but many
of us
> > (like me) have done live stage production as well.
>
> To me this sounds like great advice. Keep the local sound person as your
> ally. I would hope that the sound person at any given venue knows the
room
> very well. Try to communicate your needs, style, etc. to this person
first. If it
> ain't workin' move to plan "B" but try to communicate first. The local
sound
> crew may know things about the venue that may help you get the sound
you're
> looking for. I know I know my room very well, and thus know what does and
> doesn't work there...
> Blow me off and I may just give you "common" sound... or worst, you may
get
> what you asked for. ;-)
> [ Then too, the local sound person could be a jerk; then all bets are
off. ]
>
> Ron Capik
> --
>
>

[db:southcongress]

both of you are absolutely right. i do try to communicate with the soundguy
prior to show, but sometime it just doesn't work out and i won't know until
the show's over. i guess i'm trying to eliminate the "yeah, man...i'm doing
sound at (insert venue) a couple nights week, most of the bands suck but i
get some experience, you know" factor. i certainly don't want to come off
as a pompous asshole to the soundguy, but i also don't want to sound like
**** on stage for any other reason than my own.

with that said...would there be certain 'suggestions' i could make without
belittling the soundguy, ie. "could we try setting the compressor at x,y,z"?
and so on. like i said before, i'm just trying to make things consistent.
and if i used a mic that i know where the soundfield is, that adds a level
of consistance in and of itself.

thanks for you time and thoughtfulness.




"Ron Capik" > wrote in message
...
> Raymond wrote:
>
> > < ...snip.. >
> >
(unless
> > you just want to **** him
> > off).
> > Night clubs will have different acoustics from one club to another so
just
> > start out by seeing how things are at each place you perform before you
go
> > telling everyone what to do. This is mainly a recording forum but many
of us
> > (like me) have done live stage production as well.
>
> To me this sounds like great advice. Keep the local sound person as your
> ally. I would hope that the sound person at any given venue knows the
room
> very well. Try to communicate your needs, style, etc. to this person
first. If it
> ain't workin' move to plan "B" but try to communicate first. The local
sound
> crew may know things about the venue that may help you get the sound
you're
> looking for. I know I know my room very well, and thus know what does and
> doesn't work there...
> Blow me off and I may just give you "common" sound... or worst, you may
get
> what you asked for. ;-)
> [ Then too, the local sound person could be a jerk; then all bets are
off. ]
>
> Ron Capik
> --
>
>

[Thomas Bishop]

"db:southcongress" > wrote in message
> i'm looking to get a vocal mic and maybe a compressor/delay rack to
> bring with me on shows...until we can enlist a sound guy. i would
> like to be able to hand the 'sound guy of the night' a rack and
> say.."run the vocals through this and i'll be using my own mic".

As others have mentioned, the sound tech might not like that too much.
Depending on his skills he may not even know how to use/setup the gear.
Better to keep it simple. I do, however, bring my own mic (a VX10 is a
better choice than a 58 for me).

> with that said, i'm looking for any suggestions as to how we can make
> our live performance vocally CONSISTANT.

The only way to do that is to hire someone to be YOUR sound engineer.

> people will tell me "i
> couldn't hear the vocals", or the "vocals were muffled", or "there was
> too much high/mid range", or "they sounded incredible", or "they
> sounded thin" etc. i know some of this has to do with the soundguy,
> pa, speakers, room, audience, and more.

ALL of it has to do with the aforementioned.

[Thomas Bishop]

"db:southcongress" > wrote in message
> i'm looking to get a vocal mic and maybe a compressor/delay rack to
> bring with me on shows...until we can enlist a sound guy. i would
> like to be able to hand the 'sound guy of the night' a rack and
> say.."run the vocals through this and i'll be using my own mic".

As others have mentioned, the sound tech might not like that too much.
Depending on his skills he may not even know how to use/setup the gear.
Better to keep it simple. I do, however, bring my own mic (a VX10 is a
better choice than a 58 for me).

> with that said, i'm looking for any suggestions as to how we can make
> our live performance vocally CONSISTANT.

The only way to do that is to hire someone to be YOUR sound engineer.

> people will tell me "i
> couldn't hear the vocals", or the "vocals were muffled", or "there was
> too much high/mid range", or "they sounded incredible", or "they
> sounded thin" etc. i know some of this has to do with the soundguy,
> pa, speakers, room, audience, and more.

ALL of it has to do with the aforementioned.

[Rainer Wiechmann]

Along with being deeply involved in recording I am also a "sound
guy"...and have been for over 25 years...( yes believe it or not my ears
are still fine.....but I am VEEERRRY careful!) However I am also a
musician...& in defense of the musician in me I will have to say simply
that it is unfortunately rare that I have worked with a really good FOH
guy as supplied by the local venue. There are of course exceptions,
(ie..a couple of the guys that work the room at JAXX in VA come to mind..)
nevertheless it is a real excercise in self control being on stage and
knowing the FOH guy just SUCKS!!!...and your band sounds like ****
because of it! Getting a good "live vocal mic" won't really help you in
that regard! trust me... Having said that.....
The female lead in our group suffers from, what else, being
female...although she has more balls than most guys, she posesses a
voice that by nature lacks low resonance. She currently uses a Beyer M88
which is a great vocal mic and also a mic often use for kick drum
applications. The way you describe your voice (higher register etc) and
the subsequent mic that you found acceptable, I would highly recommend
that you try the M88..I think you will be very comfortable with it...but
it's not cheap!

Most FOH guys (who THINK they're good) will be extremely jaded, and
unless you come complete with unquestionable professional credentials,
(ie if you happen to be Steve Tyler), will look at you with contempt if
you tell them you have your own mic, and especially your own FX rack!
Because you don't know anything about sound, and you're just a musician,
etc etc...HOWEVER..any GREAT FOH guy will recognize a GOOD mic for what
it is, assume you have a reason for using it, and apart from some
potential difficulties in matching monitor sends& EQ with other stage
mics, won't mind at all. What FOH guy is going to tell Phil Collins he
should use a 58 instead of the M88...or Stevie Nicks she can't use a
Sennheiser because all the other on stage vocalists are using Audix mics
etc. You'd have to be a real egocentric idiot FOH KNOB to try and pull
rank on any accomplished artist...so why assume otherwise when dealing
with someone you don't know?

As a "sound guy" the only trouble arises when the gig in question
requires that you mix 3 or 4 bands one after the other, with ridiculous
changeover times, and hope to get a consistently good vocal sound/
monitor mix etc...than all bets are off! If the mics are radically
different in response etc. it is NOT acceptable that everyone in the
bands bring the mic of their dreams and expect anything other than grief
from the engineer.
This is different once you are a headlining/recording act...for the most
part. (especially if you have a Mic endorsement.)

I ALWAYS bring my own vocal mics to a gig...& I usually bring a
SM58...because (and you can use this excuse in all cases) I don't want
to sing into a venue-supplied mic that god-knows-who with god-knows-what
disease has been spitting into for the last 6 years! I typically choose
the 58 out of courtesy...not because it is particularly good on my
voice, but because it causes less friction of egos.
There are mulitudes of very good live vocal mics on the market and any
FOH guy worth his salt should be flexible enough to adapt his EQ to
whatever you supply...as long as it is a PROFESSIONAL-quality mic!

FX is another matter....If you require specific delay settings or
special FX (ie flanging, chorus, pitch shift, distortion etc) for
specific songs and are willing to invest the time to prepare and
properly design the patches with stage performing in mind you should not
have to worry about injuring anyone's ego.
Why should a vocalist be any different from a harmonica player? or a sax
player....Neither of which should be prone to using anything other than
say a green bullet, or a 421.....but what do you say to John Popper when
he rolls in a rack of Mesa Boogie rectifiers & lexicon or TC processing
so he can play harmonica? Or any Sax player with a wireless and a 4 foot
high rack of gear...yeah, they're out there too!!!
If your Effects are part of the performance/mix then you can be sure the
venue-supplied FOH guy is not psychic enough to know the correct cues
unless he is intimately familiar with your band's material. Even then, a
lot of guys simply won't want the headache of having someone educate
them on specific cues for unknown songs.
I once made the mistake of trying to tell a "sound guy" to make sure
there was adequate delay and rev on certain songs we were performing,
which I was certain he was unfamiliar with. His response was
1)name-dropping all the "big" acts he's worked with, and 2)"I don't get
paid extra to be a producer!"
....Total ****head!!!!!!!
You need to be especially careful when creating FX patches that might
result in feedback situations...ie distortion, too heavy compression
etc...if you do that, the FOH guy WILL take a strip out of you at the
end of the show...guaranteed....because you are making it impossible to
mix the band, and are making him, and the monitor engineer look bad!!!

I did a last-minute FOH impromtu gig with a band called "the White" many
years back...a Led Zeppelin tribute. Although I was very familiar with
the material and would have gotten all the correct delay & flanging cues
for the vocals with my ears tied behind my back, The vocalist had never
seen/met me in his life. The band was used to performing from venue to
venue with different FOH guys, and consequently wanted to be certain
that their show did not suffer because of this, so the singer carried
his own mic, and FX rack with a delay and some additional processing,
which he controlled from stage. He was a pro, had his **** together and
although I was a little more bored than usual, I did not feel the least
bit threatened or betrayed by his choice to run his own effects.
Would you tell the guitar player..."oh, you don't have to add any delay
to your guitar, Brian (May), I can do that at the board...!"

So to all you "sound guys" who feel otherwise...give Dave some slack!!!
If he shows up at your gig carrying a mic and a rack, assume first that
he knows what he's doing...and inquire accordingly, and most
importantly, diplomatically, and work with him...you are working FOR the
band....It is YOUR JOB to present the artist as he/she wishes to be
heard...from a creative aspect. Yes, you are also the PRODUCER....but to
a lesser degree than you would be in a studio.
You need to get great drum sounds, guitars, vocals etc....and create the
environment that makes the worst amp sound great out front!

as for Dave...same is true in reverse...explain your position
diplomatically, and if you get any grief, or the impression that you are
dealing with a prick FOH guy, good luck...but stick to your guns!!! Just
know what you are doing on a technical level with your gear...otherwise,
leave it at home until you do!!!

It's bad enough that "artists" and "stars" have to be handled with kid
gloves because of their often frail insecurities and volatile egos...a
"house" engineer who has similar problems and gets regularly ****ed off
at musicians etc, needs to get a new life.....It's never about/for the
money....If the job ****es you off to the point that you lose your
objectivity and your desire to deliver your best mix every time you get
behind the console then you are missing the point. There are a lot of
lousy bands...
if you can make them sound great then you are GOD....If you make great
bands sound lousy on a regular basis..then you are ****, or your
attitude sucks....simple as that.
If you make Dave's band sound great, and his vocal sound sucks because
of something he is doing onstage with his gear...you are still GOD.....
because the band is kickin'ass....so it must be Dave's fault...right?

Think about it.

Rainer


Ron Capik wrote:
> Raymond wrote:
>
>
>>< ...snip.. >
>> (unless
>>you just want to **** him
>>off).
>>Night clubs will have different acoustics from one club to another so just
>>start out by seeing how things are at each place you perform before you go
>>telling everyone what to do. This is mainly a recording forum but many of us
>>(like me) have done live stage production as well.
>
>
> To me this sounds like great advice. Keep the local sound person as your
> ally. I would hope that the sound person at any given venue knows the room
> very well. Try to communicate your needs, style, etc. to this person first. If it
> ain't workin' move to plan "B" but try to communicate first. The local sound
> crew may know things about the venue that may help you get the sound you're
> looking for. I know I know my room very well, and thus know what does and
> doesn't work there...
> Blow me off and I may just give you "common" sound... or worst, you may get
> what you asked for. ;-)
> [ Then too, the local sound person could be a jerk; then all bets are off. ]
>
> Ron Capik
> --
>
>

[Rainer Wiechmann]

Along with being deeply involved in recording I am also a "sound
guy"...and have been for over 25 years...( yes believe it or not my ears
are still fine.....but I am VEEERRRY careful!) However I am also a
musician...& in defense of the musician in me I will have to say simply
that it is unfortunately rare that I have worked with a really good FOH
guy as supplied by the local venue. There are of course exceptions,
(ie..a couple of the guys that work the room at JAXX in VA come to mind..)
nevertheless it is a real excercise in self control being on stage and
knowing the FOH guy just SUCKS!!!...and your band sounds like ****
because of it! Getting a good "live vocal mic" won't really help you in
that regard! trust me... Having said that.....
The female lead in our group suffers from, what else, being
female...although she has more balls than most guys, she posesses a
voice that by nature lacks low resonance. She currently uses a Beyer M88
which is a great vocal mic and also a mic often use for kick drum
applications. The way you describe your voice (higher register etc) and
the subsequent mic that you found acceptable, I would highly recommend
that you try the M88..I think you will be very comfortable with it...but
it's not cheap!

Most FOH guys (who THINK they're good) will be extremely jaded, and
unless you come complete with unquestionable professional credentials,
(ie if you happen to be Steve Tyler), will look at you with contempt if
you tell them you have your own mic, and especially your own FX rack!
Because you don't know anything about sound, and you're just a musician,
etc etc...HOWEVER..any GREAT FOH guy will recognize a GOOD mic for what
it is, assume you have a reason for using it, and apart from some
potential difficulties in matching monitor sends& EQ with other stage
mics, won't mind at all. What FOH guy is going to tell Phil Collins he
should use a 58 instead of the M88...or Stevie Nicks she can't use a
Sennheiser because all the other on stage vocalists are using Audix mics
etc. You'd have to be a real egocentric idiot FOH KNOB to try and pull
rank on any accomplished artist...so why assume otherwise when dealing
with someone you don't know?

As a "sound guy" the only trouble arises when the gig in question
requires that you mix 3 or 4 bands one after the other, with ridiculous
changeover times, and hope to get a consistently good vocal sound/
monitor mix etc...than all bets are off! If the mics are radically
different in response etc. it is NOT acceptable that everyone in the
bands bring the mic of their dreams and expect anything other than grief
from the engineer.
This is different once you are a headlining/recording act...for the most
part. (especially if you have a Mic endorsement.)

I ALWAYS bring my own vocal mics to a gig...& I usually bring a
SM58...because (and you can use this excuse in all cases) I don't want
to sing into a venue-supplied mic that god-knows-who with god-knows-what
disease has been spitting into for the last 6 years! I typically choose
the 58 out of courtesy...not because it is particularly good on my
voice, but because it causes less friction of egos.
There are mulitudes of very good live vocal mics on the market and any
FOH guy worth his salt should be flexible enough to adapt his EQ to
whatever you supply...as long as it is a PROFESSIONAL-quality mic!

FX is another matter....If you require specific delay settings or
special FX (ie flanging, chorus, pitch shift, distortion etc) for
specific songs and are willing to invest the time to prepare and
properly design the patches with stage performing in mind you should not
have to worry about injuring anyone's ego.
Why should a vocalist be any different from a harmonica player? or a sax
player....Neither of which should be prone to using anything other than
say a green bullet, or a 421.....but what do you say to John Popper when
he rolls in a rack of Mesa Boogie rectifiers & lexicon or TC processing
so he can play harmonica? Or any Sax player with a wireless and a 4 foot
high rack of gear...yeah, they're out there too!!!
If your Effects are part of the performance/mix then you can be sure the
venue-supplied FOH guy is not psychic enough to know the correct cues
unless he is intimately familiar with your band's material. Even then, a
lot of guys simply won't want the headache of having someone educate
them on specific cues for unknown songs.
I once made the mistake of trying to tell a "sound guy" to make sure
there was adequate delay and rev on certain songs we were performing,
which I was certain he was unfamiliar with. His response was
1)name-dropping all the "big" acts he's worked with, and 2)"I don't get
paid extra to be a producer!"
....Total ****head!!!!!!!
You need to be especially careful when creating FX patches that might
result in feedback situations...ie distortion, too heavy compression
etc...if you do that, the FOH guy WILL take a strip out of you at the
end of the show...guaranteed....because you are making it impossible to
mix the band, and are making him, and the monitor engineer look bad!!!

I did a last-minute FOH impromtu gig with a band called "the White" many
years back...a Led Zeppelin tribute. Although I was very familiar with
the material and would have gotten all the correct delay & flanging cues
for the vocals with my ears tied behind my back, The vocalist had never
seen/met me in his life. The band was used to performing from venue to
venue with different FOH guys, and consequently wanted to be certain
that their show did not suffer because of this, so the singer carried
his own mic, and FX rack with a delay and some additional processing,
which he controlled from stage. He was a pro, had his **** together and
although I was a little more bored than usual, I did not feel the least
bit threatened or betrayed by his choice to run his own effects.
Would you tell the guitar player..."oh, you don't have to add any delay
to your guitar, Brian (May), I can do that at the board...!"

So to all you "sound guys" who feel otherwise...give Dave some slack!!!
If he shows up at your gig carrying a mic and a rack, assume first that
he knows what he's doing...and inquire accordingly, and most
importantly, diplomatically, and work with him...you are working FOR the
band....It is YOUR JOB to present the artist as he/she wishes to be
heard...from a creative aspect. Yes, you are also the PRODUCER....but to
a lesser degree than you would be in a studio.
You need to get great drum sounds, guitars, vocals etc....and create the
environment that makes the worst amp sound great out front!

as for Dave...same is true in reverse...explain your position
diplomatically, and if you get any grief, or the impression that you are
dealing with a prick FOH guy, good luck...but stick to your guns!!! Just
know what you are doing on a technical level with your gear...otherwise,
leave it at home until you do!!!

It's bad enough that "artists" and "stars" have to be handled with kid
gloves because of their often frail insecurities and volatile egos...a
"house" engineer who has similar problems and gets regularly ****ed off
at musicians etc, needs to get a new life.....It's never about/for the
money....If the job ****es you off to the point that you lose your
objectivity and your desire to deliver your best mix every time you get
behind the console then you are missing the point. There are a lot of
lousy bands...
if you can make them sound great then you are GOD....If you make great
bands sound lousy on a regular basis..then you are ****, or your
attitude sucks....simple as that.
If you make Dave's band sound great, and his vocal sound sucks because
of something he is doing onstage with his gear...you are still GOD.....
because the band is kickin'ass....so it must be Dave's fault...right?

Think about it.

Rainer


Ron Capik wrote:
> Raymond wrote:
>
>
>>< ...snip.. >
>> (unless
>>you just want to **** him
>>off).
>>Night clubs will have different acoustics from one club to another so just
>>start out by seeing how things are at each place you perform before you go
>>telling everyone what to do. This is mainly a recording forum but many of us
>>(like me) have done live stage production as well.
>
>
> To me this sounds like great advice. Keep the local sound person as your
> ally. I would hope that the sound person at any given venue knows the room
> very well. Try to communicate your needs, style, etc. to this person first. If it
> ain't workin' move to plan "B" but try to communicate first. The local sound
> crew may know things about the venue that may help you get the sound you're
> looking for. I know I know my room very well, and thus know what does and
> doesn't work there...
> Blow me off and I may just give you "common" sound... or worst, you may get
> what you asked for. ;-)
> [ Then too, the local sound person could be a jerk; then all bets are off. ]
>
> Ron Capik
> --
>
>

[George]

I guess I am haveing a hard time with most of these posts
as a live guy I encourage the musos to give me direction beacuse I am
working for them
I can supply at least 6 matching vox mics in 5 diffrent flavors
Om7,58,beta87,m88,535 and I am adding three more sets of 6, the
865,5100 and vx10(yes 18 more vox mics)

They are free to choose what ever makes them comfortable It is not a
challenge to my ego to have a singer ,or guitar or anyone stand at my
desk and help me achieve thier sound

all my speakers sound great and are selected to give
coverage,volume,basically to fit the venue


I have no clue to all these asshole sound guy you run into but I rarely
meet a asshole or a incompatant muso or sound guy

The stage should not be mixed to sound like the audience so if that is
your standard then you need to readjust your thinking

the stage is a entirely diffrent dynamic collection of ambiant sounds
than the audience is
it is also a entirely diffrent in its needs in regards to feedback and
tonality

as in life you GENERALLY get out of people what you put into them

you come at a guy with a demeaning ,superior attitude and your likely to
find a offended jerk
you come to people with a warm "thanks for being on the team
tonight",(and not just words but a true open warm attitude)
and your likely to find a gracious wonderfully talented engineer ready
to make the world spin in reverse for you
George

[George]

I guess I am haveing a hard time with most of these posts
as a live guy I encourage the musos to give me direction beacuse I am
working for them
I can supply at least 6 matching vox mics in 5 diffrent flavors
Om7,58,beta87,m88,535 and I am adding three more sets of 6, the
865,5100 and vx10(yes 18 more vox mics)

They are free to choose what ever makes them comfortable It is not a
challenge to my ego to have a singer ,or guitar or anyone stand at my
desk and help me achieve thier sound

all my speakers sound great and are selected to give
coverage,volume,basically to fit the venue


I have no clue to all these asshole sound guy you run into but I rarely
meet a asshole or a incompatant muso or sound guy

The stage should not be mixed to sound like the audience so if that is
your standard then you need to readjust your thinking

the stage is a entirely diffrent dynamic collection of ambiant sounds
than the audience is
it is also a entirely diffrent in its needs in regards to feedback and
tonality

as in life you GENERALLY get out of people what you put into them

you come at a guy with a demeaning ,superior attitude and your likely to
find a offended jerk
you come to people with a warm "thanks for being on the team
tonight",(and not just words but a true open warm attitude)
and your likely to find a gracious wonderfully talented engineer ready
to make the world spin in reverse for you
George

[db:southcongress]

> I guess I am haveing a hard time with most of these posts
> as a live guy I encourage the musos to give me direction beacuse I am
> working for them
> I can supply at least 6 matching vox mics in 5 diffrent flavors
> Om7,58,beta87,m88,535 and I am adding three more sets of 6, the
> 865,5100 and vx10(yes 18 more vox mics)

so which would i pick if i were at your club? this is my question.



> I have no clue to all these asshole sound guy you run into but I rarely
> meet a asshole or a incompatant muso or sound guy

it's not that they're assholes, per se. it's the fact they are 'sound
guys' a couple days of the week...and a few hours of the day at that.



> The stage should not be mixed to sound like the audience so if that is
> your standard then you need to readjust your thinking

I'm not an idiot, so please don't be an asshole. my standard....my
standard is to sound as best i can.

i know it's hard for a sound guy to gauge sound for a band he's
never heard of and maybe a band he doesn't even like. this is not the
point of the post. please read my orginal post. all i need to hear
on stage is enought to make sure i'm in key. tonal quality doens't
mean **** up there as long as the notes are right the sound guy has to
make the mix for the audience. all the other amps are controled by the
players, the vocals don't have that luxury.

> the stage is a entirely diffrent dynamic collection of ambiant sounds
> than the audience is
> it is also a entirely diffrent in its needs in regards to feedback and
> tonality

again, please read the original post.


> as in life you GENERALLY get out of people what you put into them

absolutly right.

> you come at a guy with a demeaning ,superior attitude and your likely to
> find a offended jerk
> you come to people with a warm "thanks for being on the team
> tonight",(and not just words but a true open warm attitude)
> and your likely to find a gracious wonderfully talented engineer ready
> to make the world spin in reverse for you

your right again. all i want to do is add a level (any level at
that) of CONSISTANCY to the vocal performance by eliminating as many
variables as "I" can. whether it be bringing a mic that's matched to
my voice. an eq setting matched to the mic, a fx recommendation, etc.

> George



dave

[db:southcongress]

> I guess I am haveing a hard time with most of these posts
> as a live guy I encourage the musos to give me direction beacuse I am
> working for them
> I can supply at least 6 matching vox mics in 5 diffrent flavors
> Om7,58,beta87,m88,535 and I am adding three more sets of 6, the
> 865,5100 and vx10(yes 18 more vox mics)

so which would i pick if i were at your club? this is my question.



> I have no clue to all these asshole sound guy you run into but I rarely
> meet a asshole or a incompatant muso or sound guy

it's not that they're assholes, per se. it's the fact they are 'sound
guys' a couple days of the week...and a few hours of the day at that.



> The stage should not be mixed to sound like the audience so if that is
> your standard then you need to readjust your thinking

I'm not an idiot, so please don't be an asshole. my standard....my
standard is to sound as best i can.

i know it's hard for a sound guy to gauge sound for a band he's
never heard of and maybe a band he doesn't even like. this is not the
point of the post. please read my orginal post. all i need to hear
on stage is enought to make sure i'm in key. tonal quality doens't
mean **** up there as long as the notes are right the sound guy has to
make the mix for the audience. all the other amps are controled by the
players, the vocals don't have that luxury.

> the stage is a entirely diffrent dynamic collection of ambiant sounds
> than the audience is
> it is also a entirely diffrent in its needs in regards to feedback and
> tonality

again, please read the original post.


> as in life you GENERALLY get out of people what you put into them

absolutly right.

> you come at a guy with a demeaning ,superior attitude and your likely to
> find a offended jerk
> you come to people with a warm "thanks for being on the team
> tonight",(and not just words but a true open warm attitude)
> and your likely to find a gracious wonderfully talented engineer ready
> to make the world spin in reverse for you

your right again. all i want to do is add a level (any level at
that) of CONSISTANCY to the vocal performance by eliminating as many
variables as "I" can. whether it be bringing a mic that's matched to
my voice. an eq setting matched to the mic, a fx recommendation, etc.

> George



dave

[db:southcongress]

>
> Did you try a $100.00 SM 57 with a windscreen? (held on by a rubber band) This
> is one of the cheapest, consistent and versatile mics I can think of.

yes, i have. without the windscreen though. i can't say i remember it
being all that great or all that poor..




> Night clubs will have different acoustics from one club to another so just
> start out by seeing how things are at each place you perform before you go
> telling everyone what to do. This is mainly a recording forum but many of us
> (like me) have done live stage production as well.


i don't have that luxury esp. if i've never been to that club before,
but good suggestion otherwise. homework is always fun before tour.

[db:southcongress]

>
> Did you try a $100.00 SM 57 with a windscreen? (held on by a rubber band) This
> is one of the cheapest, consistent and versatile mics I can think of.

yes, i have. without the windscreen though. i can't say i remember it
being all that great or all that poor..




> Night clubs will have different acoustics from one club to another so just
> start out by seeing how things are at each place you perform before you go
> telling everyone what to do. This is mainly a recording forum but many of us
> (like me) have done live stage production as well.


i don't have that luxury esp. if i've never been to that club before,
but good suggestion otherwise. homework is always fun before tour.

[George]

In article >,
(db:southcongress) wrote:

> > I guess I am haveing a hard time with most of these posts
> > as a live guy I encourage the musos to give me direction beacuse I am
> > working for them
> > I can supply at least 6 matching vox mics in 5 diffrent flavors
> > Om7,58,beta87,m88,535 and I am adding three more sets of 6, the
> > 865,5100 and vx10(yes 18 more vox mics)
>
> so which would i pick if i were at your club? this is my question.

I do not work for a club, I own sound systems nd provide sound service
I default to the om7's for most club work
but I own the others as no one mic works on the variety of clients I
serve
>
>
>
> > I have no clue to all these asshole sound guy you run into but I rarely
> > meet a asshole or a incompatant muso or sound guy
>
> it's not that they're assholes, per se. it's the fact they are 'sound
> guys' a couple days of the week...and a few hours of the day at that.

those are not sound guys those are plumbers and carpenters who think
sound is something one can do a few hours aweek
I work at sound 10 -19 hours a day every day
itis my profession, it pays my mortgage,it buys me 50,000$ worth of new
gear a year it puts my kid in college
it is not something I take lightly nor do I have any other skill to fall
back on if I did not achieve at sound
failure is not a option bad work is not a option

>
>
>
> > The stage should not be mixed to sound like the audience so if that is
> > your standard then you need to readjust your thinking
>
> I'm not an idiot, so please don't be an asshole. my standard....my
> standard is to sound as best i can.

sorry if you understood that many people don't they say make the stage
sound like the front or just feed what your feeding the audience to my
monitor
>
> i know it's hard for a sound guy to gauge sound for a band he's
> never heard of and maybe a band he doesn't even like.

good sound is independent of how mch I like the band this is a
profession do brick layers do poor work just cause they don't like
building garages?

this is not the
> point of the post. please read my orginal post. all i need to hear
> on stage is enought to make sure i'm in key. tonal quality doens't
> mean **** up there as long as the notes are right the sound guy has to
> make the mix for the audience. all the other amps are controled by the
> players, the vocals don't have that luxury.

I can deliver that with a 16$ cad 22a if you can not get a useable
sound from a 58 then you have skill issues with you part time psudo
engineer
>
> > the stage is a entirely diffrent dynamic collection of ambiant sounds
> > than the audience is
> > it is also a entirely diffrent in its needs in regards to feedback and
> > tonality
>
> again, please read the original post.
>
>
> > as in life you GENERALLY get out of people what you put into them
>
> absolutly right.
>
> > you come at a guy with a demeaning ,superior attitude and your likely to
> > find a offended jerk
> > you come to people with a warm "thanks for being on the team
> > tonight",(and not just words but a true open warm attitude)
> > and your likely to find a gracious wonderfully talented engineer ready
> > to make the world spin in reverse for you
>
> your right again. all i want to do is add a level (any level at
> that) of CONSISTANCY to the vocal performance by eliminating as many
> variables as "I" can. whether it be bringing a mic that's matched to
> my voice. an eq setting matched to the mic, a fx recommendation, etc.


i would go with my own vox set-up including my ownmic, mixer. efx,and
IEM set then send a preset signal to the house
you will have absolute consistancy on stage plus you will know the
quality of the signal sent so all the house guy has to do is volume
even a part timer should be able to deliver this, if he can't then you
need your own man at the foh desk as well

this is not expensive or unusual these days

with IEM's your sound is rock solid the same ever venue every night
i toured with a band where the stage sound was locked down in the
rehersal hall prior to a 45 city tour mixed to a yamaha o1v and 4 sets
of IEM's never needed a monitor check save hours every night
Ploease consider this
George
>
> > George
>
>
>
> dave

[George]

In article >,
(db:southcongress) wrote:

> > I guess I am haveing a hard time with most of these posts
> > as a live guy I encourage the musos to give me direction beacuse I am
> > working for them
> > I can supply at least 6 matching vox mics in 5 diffrent flavors
> > Om7,58,beta87,m88,535 and I am adding three more sets of 6, the
> > 865,5100 and vx10(yes 18 more vox mics)
>
> so which would i pick if i were at your club? this is my question.

I do not work for a club, I own sound systems nd provide sound service
I default to the om7's for most club work
but I own the others as no one mic works on the variety of clients I
serve
>
>
>
> > I have no clue to all these asshole sound guy you run into but I rarely
> > meet a asshole or a incompatant muso or sound guy
>
> it's not that they're assholes, per se. it's the fact they are 'sound
> guys' a couple days of the week...and a few hours of the day at that.

those are not sound guys those are plumbers and carpenters who think
sound is something one can do a few hours aweek
I work at sound 10 -19 hours a day every day
itis my profession, it pays my mortgage,it buys me 50,000$ worth of new
gear a year it puts my kid in college
it is not something I take lightly nor do I have any other skill to fall
back on if I did not achieve at sound
failure is not a option bad work is not a option

>
>
>
> > The stage should not be mixed to sound like the audience so if that is
> > your standard then you need to readjust your thinking
>
> I'm not an idiot, so please don't be an asshole. my standard....my
> standard is to sound as best i can.

sorry if you understood that many people don't they say make the stage
sound like the front or just feed what your feeding the audience to my
monitor
>
> i know it's hard for a sound guy to gauge sound for a band he's
> never heard of and maybe a band he doesn't even like.

good sound is independent of how mch I like the band this is a
profession do brick layers do poor work just cause they don't like
building garages?

this is not the
> point of the post. please read my orginal post. all i need to hear
> on stage is enought to make sure i'm in key. tonal quality doens't
> mean **** up there as long as the notes are right the sound guy has to
> make the mix for the audience. all the other amps are controled by the
> players, the vocals don't have that luxury.

I can deliver that with a 16$ cad 22a if you can not get a useable
sound from a 58 then you have skill issues with you part time psudo
engineer
>
> > the stage is a entirely diffrent dynamic collection of ambiant sounds
> > than the audience is
> > it is also a entirely diffrent in its needs in regards to feedback and
> > tonality
>
> again, please read the original post.
>
>
> > as in life you GENERALLY get out of people what you put into them
>
> absolutly right.
>
> > you come at a guy with a demeaning ,superior attitude and your likely to
> > find a offended jerk
> > you come to people with a warm "thanks for being on the team
> > tonight",(and not just words but a true open warm attitude)
> > and your likely to find a gracious wonderfully talented engineer ready
> > to make the world spin in reverse for you
>
> your right again. all i want to do is add a level (any level at
> that) of CONSISTANCY to the vocal performance by eliminating as many
> variables as "I" can. whether it be bringing a mic that's matched to
> my voice. an eq setting matched to the mic, a fx recommendation, etc.


i would go with my own vox set-up including my ownmic, mixer. efx,and
IEM set then send a preset signal to the house
you will have absolute consistancy on stage plus you will know the
quality of the signal sent so all the house guy has to do is volume
even a part timer should be able to deliver this, if he can't then you
need your own man at the foh desk as well

this is not expensive or unusual these days

with IEM's your sound is rock solid the same ever venue every night
i toured with a band where the stage sound was locked down in the
rehersal hall prior to a 45 city tour mixed to a yamaha o1v and 4 sets
of IEM's never needed a monitor check save hours every night
Ploease consider this
George
>
> > George
>
>
>
> dave

[db:southcongress]

>I would highly recommend
> that you try the M88..I think you will be very comfortable with it...but
> it's not cheap!

thanks



> So to all you "sound guys" who feel otherwise...give Dave some slack!!!
> If he shows up at your gig carrying a mic and a rack, assume first that
> he knows what he's doing...and inquire accordingly, and most
> importantly, diplomatically, and work with him...you are working FOR the
> band....It is YOUR JOB to present the artist as he/she wishes to be
> heard...from a creative aspect. Yes, you are also the PRODUCER....but to
> a lesser degree than you would be in a studio.
> You need to get great drum sounds, guitars, vocals etc....and create the
> environment that makes the worst amp sound great out front!

YES!!

> as for Dave...same is true in reverse...explain your position
> diplomatically, and if you get any grief, or the impression that you are
> dealing with a prick FOH guy, good luck...but stick to your guns!!! Just
> know what you are doing on a technical level with your gear...otherwise,
> leave it at home until you do!!!

another resounding YES!!



> if you can make them sound great then you are GOD....If you make great
> bands sound lousy on a regular basis..then you are ****, or your
> attitude sucks....simple as that.


> If you make Dave's band sound great, and his vocal sound sucks because
> of something he is doing onstage with his gear...you are still GOD.....
> because the band is kickin'ass....so it must be Dave's fault...right?


it's always my fault i found out...even when the sound guy tells me
he's sorry he couldn't get my tone right. it's my voice, therefore
my fault, right...i know i don't sound like i'm in a tin can when i'm
a practice. hmm, must be something in the air. full moon maybe. oh,
it did rain earlier today, that must be it.


> Think about it.
>
> Rainer


anyway, thanks for the awesome post. i'll let you know how mic
shopping goes...

thanks
dave

[db:southcongress]

>I would highly recommend
> that you try the M88..I think you will be very comfortable with it...but
> it's not cheap!

thanks



> So to all you "sound guys" who feel otherwise...give Dave some slack!!!
> If he shows up at your gig carrying a mic and a rack, assume first that
> he knows what he's doing...and inquire accordingly, and most
> importantly, diplomatically, and work with him...you are working FOR the
> band....It is YOUR JOB to present the artist as he/she wishes to be
> heard...from a creative aspect. Yes, you are also the PRODUCER....but to
> a lesser degree than you would be in a studio.
> You need to get great drum sounds, guitars, vocals etc....and create the
> environment that makes the worst amp sound great out front!

YES!!

> as for Dave...same is true in reverse...explain your position
> diplomatically, and if you get any grief, or the impression that you are
> dealing with a prick FOH guy, good luck...but stick to your guns!!! Just
> know what you are doing on a technical level with your gear...otherwise,
> leave it at home until you do!!!

another resounding YES!!



> if you can make them sound great then you are GOD....If you make great
> bands sound lousy on a regular basis..then you are ****, or your
> attitude sucks....simple as that.


> If you make Dave's band sound great, and his vocal sound sucks because
> of something he is doing onstage with his gear...you are still GOD.....
> because the band is kickin'ass....so it must be Dave's fault...right?


it's always my fault i found out...even when the sound guy tells me
he's sorry he couldn't get my tone right. it's my voice, therefore
my fault, right...i know i don't sound like i'm in a tin can when i'm
a practice. hmm, must be something in the air. full moon maybe. oh,
it did rain earlier today, that must be it.


> Think about it.
>
> Rainer


anyway, thanks for the awesome post. i'll let you know how mic
shopping goes...

thanks
dave

[db:southcongress]

thanks for responding... i like the IEM idea but it may be overkill as of
yet. right now, i'm really looking for a mic to match my voice. something
that has smooth highs and well defined lows...i'm walking into a music store
tomorrow and stepping infront of several mics. which ones should i look at
first?




> i would go with my own vox set-up including my ownmic, mixer. efx,and
> IEM set then send a preset signal to the house
> you will have absolute consistancy on stage plus you will know the
> quality of the signal sent so all the house guy has to do is volume
> even a part timer should be able to deliver this, if he can't then you
> need your own man at the foh desk as well



> this is not expensive or unusual these days
>
> with IEM's your sound is rock solid the same ever venue every night
> i toured with a band where the stage sound was locked down in the
> rehersal hall prior to a 45 city tour mixed to a yamaha o1v and 4 sets
> of IEM's never needed a monitor check save hours every night
> Ploease consider this
> George
> >
> > > George
> >
> >
> >
> > dave

[db:southcongress]

thanks for responding... i like the IEM idea but it may be overkill as of
yet. right now, i'm really looking for a mic to match my voice. something
that has smooth highs and well defined lows...i'm walking into a music store
tomorrow and stepping infront of several mics. which ones should i look at
first?




> i would go with my own vox set-up including my ownmic, mixer. efx,and
> IEM set then send a preset signal to the house
> you will have absolute consistancy on stage plus you will know the
> quality of the signal sent so all the house guy has to do is volume
> even a part timer should be able to deliver this, if he can't then you
> need your own man at the foh desk as well



> this is not expensive or unusual these days
>
> with IEM's your sound is rock solid the same ever venue every night
> i toured with a band where the stage sound was locked down in the
> rehersal hall prior to a 45 city tour mixed to a yamaha o1v and 4 sets
> of IEM's never needed a monitor check save hours every night
> Ploease consider this
> George
> >
> > > George
> >
> >
> >
> > dave

[Thomas Bishop]

"db:southcongress" > wrote in message
> thanks for responding... i like the IEM idea but it may be overkill as of
> yet. right now, i'm really looking for a mic to match my voice.
something
> that has smooth highs and well defined lows...i'm walking into a music
store
> tomorrow and stepping infront of several mics. which ones should i look
at
> first?

Without knowing what they have or what your voice sounds like, the only real
answer is: Whatever suits your budget. I don't remember if you ever told
us your budget, but figure that out before you even go into the store. Then
find one that is at least as much as your budget, then work your way down
from there.

[Thomas Bishop]

"db:southcongress" > wrote in message
> thanks for responding... i like the IEM idea but it may be overkill as of
> yet. right now, i'm really looking for a mic to match my voice.
something
> that has smooth highs and well defined lows...i'm walking into a music
store
> tomorrow and stepping infront of several mics. which ones should i look
at
> first?

Without knowing what they have or what your voice sounds like, the only real
answer is: Whatever suits your budget. I don't remember if you ever told
us your budget, but figure that out before you even go into the store. Then
find one that is at least as much as your budget, then work your way down
from there.

[George Gleason]

"db:southcongress" > wrote in message
...
> thanks for responding... i like the IEM idea but it may be overkill as of
> yet. right now, i'm really looking for a mic to match my voice.
something
> that has smooth highs and well defined lows...i'm walking into a music
store
> tomorrow and stepping infront of several mics. which ones should i look
at
> first?
>
depends on your style , If you mentioned it, I am sorry I did not reread
the thread
I would look at the beta 87C (NOT the "A" model)if the store has one
many stores are woefully short on quality mics>

George

[George Gleason]

"db:southcongress" > wrote in message
...
> thanks for responding... i like the IEM idea but it may be overkill as of
> yet. right now, i'm really looking for a mic to match my voice.
something
> that has smooth highs and well defined lows...i'm walking into a music
store
> tomorrow and stepping infront of several mics. which ones should i look
at
> first?
>
depends on your style , If you mentioned it, I am sorry I did not reread
the thread
I would look at the beta 87C (NOT the "A" model)if the store has one
many stores are woefully short on quality mics>

George

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Raymond wrote:

> Did you try a $100.00 SM 57 with a windscreen? (held on by a rubber band) This
> is one of the cheapest, consistent and versatile mics I can think of.

And unfortunately it's a horrible match with the pres on many cheap
consoles. I seriously appreciate my 57 when it's hooked to a seriously
good preamp, but otherwise, I do not thrill to it.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Ron Capik wrote:

> Raymond wrote:

> > < ...snip.. >
>> (unless
> > you just want to **** him
> > off).
> > Night clubs will have different acoustics from one club to another so just
> > start out by seeing how things are at each place you perform before you go
> > telling everyone what to do. This is mainly a recording forum but many of us
> > (like me) have done live stage production as well.

> To me this sounds like great advice. Keep the local sound person as your
> ally. I would hope that the sound person at any given venue knows the
> room very well. Try to communicate your needs, style, etc. to this person
> first. If it ain't workin' move to plan "B" but try to communicate first.
> The local sound crew may know things about the venue that may help you get
> the sound you're looking for. I know I know my room very well, and thus
> know what does and doesn't work there...
> Blow me off and I may just give you "common" sound... or worst, you may
> get what you asked for. ;-)
> [ Then too, the local sound person could be a jerk; then all bets are off. ]

As an SR provider I like to be appreciated; as a performer I meet too
many SR humans who offer little or nothing to appreciate. Hence,
especially when sidemanning on an acoustic instrument, I carry my own
mics, stand, cables, pres, onstage mixer, EQ, amp, and monitor cabinet.
I take care of myself on stage and give FOH a feed from the preamp(s);
that's how there came to be am MP2-MH version of what had become the
MP2-M Great River mic pre.

At a certain level the sound person stands ready to do what they're
told. I look first to the rider, and next to what I am asked for at the
gig. People often know a lot more than I do about their own music and
the finer points of presenting it well. What I may know about a room is
usually communicable to the artists and together we can arrive at an apt
solution for a given show in a particular room.

--
ha

[Raymond]

>anyway, thanks for the post. i'll let you know how mic
>shopping goes...

One other thing I can say is that many of the bands that I've know or been in
the sound man is as much a part of the band as the players. He/she is at every
show and practice to, this is what will be the most help. Some one (sober) who
knows how your voice sounds and has taken some time to work with you at
practices/shows so as to get things right.