Feeding PC Sound System to Receiver?

[W]

What is the best way to feed a Windows PC sound system to a receiver? The
intent is to have one receiver be shared by multiple PCs, as well as by an
audiophile quality Bluray. I want to have a high end 5.1 or 7.1 setup, but
I also want the PC to be able to use Windows DirectX sound interface to
directly control all five channels. Games played on Windows systems use
DirectX to control the individual sound channels.

There are systems like the Creative DDTS-100 that solve this problem very
well, but this box wants to feed PC speakers. It cannot work with
audiophile quality speaker systems. If I go with a true audiophile
receiver, do I lose the ability to have the PC control individual sound
channels? If for example I feed an optical audio cable from the PC sound
card to the receiver, it cannot encapsulate the 5.1 sound into a known
format like DTS 5.1.

It seems to me what you really want is a receiver that can take as direct
input the individual channel cables from the PC sound card? Does such a
receiver exist? Is there a better way to achieve what I am looking for
here?

--
W

[Audio_Empire[_2_]]

On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:56:40 AM UTC-8, W wrote:
> What is the best way to feed a Windows PC sound system to a receiver? The
> intent is to have one receiver be shared by multiple PCs, as well as by an
> audiophile quality Bluray. I want to have a high end 5.1 or 7.1 setup, but
> I also want the PC to be able to use Windows DirectX sound interface to
> directly control all five channels. Games played on Windows systems use
> DirectX to control the individual sound channels.
>
> There are systems like the Creative DDTS-100 that solve this problem very
> well, but this box wants to feed PC speakers. It cannot work with
> audiophile quality speaker systems. If I go with a true audiophile
> receiver, do I lose the ability to have the PC control individual sound
> channels? If for example I feed an optical audio cable from the PC sound
> card to the receiver, it cannot encapsulate the 5.1 sound into a known
> format like DTS 5.1.
>
> It seems to me what you really want is a receiver that can take as direct
> input the individual channel cables from the PC sound card? Does such a
> receiver exist? Is there a better way to achieve what I am looking for
> here?

If I understand you, you want to take multiple optical digital audio
output from multiple PCs, a gaming console, and a Blu-Ray player and
feed it to an A/V receiver with built-in Dolby Digital and DTS
decoding. If so, you will want some- thing like this:

http://www.cablestogo.com/product/40697

This is the recommended method. However, if you want to transfer AUDIO
in 5.1 or 7.1 channels, a switch that will transfer 6 or 7 channels of
discrete audio at once is a tall order and not really necessary
because with virtually all current A/V receivers, it's redundant. Only
the digital signal needs to be transferred from the computers and the
gaming console and the Blu-Ray player as the decoding for all is done
in the receiver.

Coaxial digital may be a better way to transfer the 5.1/7.1 digital
audio signal from your sources to your A/V receiver. In that case, you
can use one of these:

http://tinyurl.com/awfupt6

At $17.00 each, you merely use the the 4 video RCA inputs (the yellow
ones) for the coaxial digital, and if you need more than 4 into 2, you
can cascade these boxes to obtain the number of sources you need. I.E.
1 box gives you four sources, 2 in series give you seven, three give
you 10 sources. etc.

Audio_Empire

[Bob Lombard[_2_]]

On 1/15/2013 9:56 AM, W wrote:
> What is the best way to feed a Windows PC sound system to a receiver? The
> intent is to have one receiver be shared by multiple PCs, as well as by an
> audiophile quality Bluray. I want to have a high end 5.1 or 7.1 setup, but
> I also want the PC to be able to use Windows DirectX sound interface to
> directly control all five channels. Games played on Windows systems use
> DirectX to control the individual sound channels.
>
> There are systems like the Creative DDTS-100 that solve this problem very
> well, but this box wants to feed PC speakers. It cannot work with
> audiophile quality speaker systems. If I go with a true audiophile
> receiver, do I lose the ability to have the PC control individual sound
> channels? If for example I feed an optical audio cable from the PC sound
> card to the receiver, it cannot encapsulate the 5.1 sound into a known
> format like DTS 5.1.
>
> It seems to me what you really want is a receiver that can take as direct
> input the individual channel cables from the PC sound card? Does such a
> receiver exist? Is there a better way to achieve what I am looking for
> here?
>
Have you investigated the capabilities of 'X-Box'? It seems to have a
lot of bells and whistles, maybe this capability is one of them.

[W]

"Audio_Empire" > wrote in message
...
> On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:56:40 AM UTC-8, W wrote:
> > What is the best way to feed a Windows PC sound system to a receiver?
The
> > intent is to have one receiver be shared by multiple PCs, as well as by
an
> > audiophile quality Bluray. I want to have a high end 5.1 or 7.1 setup,
but
> > I also want the PC to be able to use Windows DirectX sound interface to
> > directly control all five channels. Games played on Windows systems
use
> > DirectX to control the individual sound channels.
> >
> > There are systems like the Creative DDTS-100 that solve this problem
very
> > well, but this box wants to feed PC speakers. It cannot work with
> > audiophile quality speaker systems. If I go with a true audiophile
> > receiver, do I lose the ability to have the PC control individual sound
> > channels? If for example I feed an optical audio cable from the PC
sound
> > card to the receiver, it cannot encapsulate the 5.1 sound into a known
> > format like DTS 5.1.
> >
> > It seems to me what you really want is a receiver that can take as
direct
> > input the individual channel cables from the PC sound card? Does such
a
> > receiver exist? Is there a better way to achieve what I am looking for
> > here?
>
> If I understand you, you want to take multiple optical digital audio
> output from multiple PCs, a gaming console, and a Blu-Ray player and
> feed it to an A/V receiver with built-in Dolby Digital and DTS
> decoding. If so, you will want some- thing like this:
>
> http://www.cablestogo.com/product/40697
>
> This is the recommended method. However, if you want to transfer AUDIO
> in 5.1 or 7.1 channels, a switch that will transfer 6 or 7 channels of
> discrete audio at once is a tall order and not really necessary
> because with virtually all current A/V receivers, it's redundant. Only
> the digital signal needs to be transferred from the computers and the
> gaming console and the Blu-Ray player as the decoding for all is done
> in the receiver.
>
> Coaxial digital may be a better way to transfer the 5.1/7.1 digital
> audio signal from your sources to your A/V receiver. In that case, you
> can use one of these:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/awfupt6
>
> At $17.00 each, you merely use the the 4 video RCA inputs (the yellow
> ones) for the coaxial digital, and if you need more than 4 into 2, you
> can cascade these boxes to obtain the number of sources you need. I.E.
> 1 box gives you four sources, 2 in series give you seven, three give
> you 10 sources. etc.

Maybe this is my misunderstanding, but a PC game under Windows wants to
control the individual sound channels directly. Are suggesting that by
feeding the soundcard outputs to the analog RCA connections on the switch
you are showing, and then passing those to the receiver, it will give an
identical result to directly attaching PC speakers to the sound card?

And presumably using three separate RCA cables from the sound card would
preserve more of the 5.1 dimensionality than using a single optical audio
cable from the soundcard? My concern is that optical cables normally work
only when passing a bitsream that needs decoding at the receiver. To my
understanding, a PC game isn't using DTS or Dolby bitstream at all. It's
using the "DirectSound" interface which directly manages individual sound
channels. So I am not clear on how the PC would combine the 5.1
information onto the optical channel, nor am I clear on how the receiver
would deal with it. I assume it would just be PCM? Would that set the
signal to the same information for all five channels?

--
W

[Arny Krueger[_5_]]

"W" > wrote in message
...

> What is the best way to feed a Windows PC sound system to a receiver?
> The
> intent is to have one receiver be shared by multiple PCs, as well as by an
> audiophile quality Bluray. I want to have a high end 5.1 or 7.1 setup,
> but
> I also want the PC to be able to use Windows DirectX sound interface to
> directly control all five channels. Games played on Windows systems use
> DirectX to control the individual sound channels.

What sort of audio interface is already in the PC?

Many PC's have coax or optical digital audio outputs. They may also have a
HDMI video card that usually includes support for 8 channels of digital
audio.

[W]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "W" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > What is the best way to feed a Windows PC sound system to a receiver?
> > The
> > intent is to have one receiver be shared by multiple PCs, as well as by
an
> > audiophile quality Bluray. I want to have a high end 5.1 or 7.1 setup,
> > but
> > I also want the PC to be able to use Windows DirectX sound interface to
> > directly control all five channels. Games played on Windows systems
use
> > DirectX to control the individual sound channels.
>
> What sort of audio interface is already in the PC?
>
> Many PC's have coax or optical digital audio outputs. They may also have a
> HDMI video card that usually includes support for 8 channels of digital
> audio.

How can a PC game transmit 5.1 information on an optical audio cable when it
cannot use DTS or Dolby?

On HDMI, are you saying that most video cards on PCs now also support 7.1
sound? I had not realized that. Video cards manufacturers are not
advertising that in their data sheets.

--
W

[Audio_Empire[_2_]]

On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:23:55 PM UTC-8, W wrote:
> "Audio_Empire" wrote in message
> ...
> > On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:56:40 AM UTC-8, W wrote:
> > > What is the best way to feed a Windows PC sound system to a receiver? The
> > > intent is to have one receiver be shared by multiple PCs, as well as by an
> > > audiophile quality Bluray. I want to have a high end 5.1 or 7.1 setup, but
> > > I also want the PC to be able to use Windows DirectX sound interface to
> > > directly control all five channels. Games played on Windows systems use
> > > DirectX to control the individual sound channels.
> > >
> > > There are systems like the Creative DDTS-100 that solve this problem very
> > > well, but this box wants to feed PC speakers. It cannot work with
> > > audiophile quality speaker systems. If I go with a true audiophile
> > > receiver, do I lose the ability to have the PC control individual sound
> > > channels? If for example I feed an optical audio cable from the PC sound
> > > card to the receiver, it cannot encapsulate the 5.1 sound into a known
> > > format like DTS 5.1.
> > >
> > > It seems to me what you really want is a receiver that can take as direct
> > > input the individual channel cables from the PC sound card? Does such a
> > > receiver exist? Is there a better way to achieve what I am looking for
> > > here?
> >
> > If I understand you, you want to take multiple optical digital audio
> > output from multiple PCs, a gaming console, and a Blu-Ray player and
> > feed it to an A/V receiver with built-in Dolby Digital and DTS
> > decoding. If so, you will want some- thing like this:
> >
> > http://www.cablestogo.com/product/40697
> >
> > This is the recommended method. However, if you want to transfer AUDIO
> > in 5.1 or 7.1 channels, a switch that will transfer 6 or 7 channels of
> > discrete audio at once is a tall order and not really necessary
> > because with virtually all current A/V receivers, it's redundant. Only
> > the digital signal needs to be transferred from the computers and the
> > gaming console and the Blu-Ray player as the decoding for all is done
> > in the receiver.
> >
> > Coaxial digital may be a better way to transfer the 5.1/7.1 digital
> > audio signal from your sources to your A/V receiver. In that case, you
> > can use one of these:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/awfupt6
> >
> > At $17.00 each, you merely use the the 4 video RCA inputs (the yellow
> > ones) for the coaxial digital, and if you need more than 4 into 2, you
> > can cascade these boxes to obtain the number of sources you need. I.E.
> > 1 box gives you four sources, 2 in series give you seven, three give
> > you 10 sources. etc.
>
> Maybe this is my misunderstanding, but a PC game under Windows wants to
> control the individual sound channels directly. Are suggesting that by
> feeding the soundcard outputs to the analog RCA connections on the switch
> you are showing, and then passing those to the receiver, it will give an
> identical result to directly attaching PC speakers to the sound card?

No, If the output of your sound card is digital (either coaxial with
an RCA jack, or optical with a Toslink output, then you would want
either of the two switch boxes above. If you are transferring 5.1 or
6.1 channels of AUDIO, then I know of NO switchboxes that will allow
that (can you imagine the tangle that 24 cables for 5.1 stereo audio
would make?

> And presumably using three separate RCA cables from the sound card would
> preserve more of the 5.1 dimensionality than using a single optical audio

Please understand the optical cable is most likely NOT analog audio,
It's DIGITAL audio out, It needs ro go to the digital audio IN on your
A/V receiver and one digital optical or coaxial cable will carry all
six 5.1 or all eight 7.1 channels over a single cable.

> cable from the soundcard? My concern is that optical cables normally work
> only when passing a bitsream that needs decoding at the receiver. To my
> understanding, a PC game isn't using DTS or Dolby bitstream at all. It's
> using the "DirectSound" interface which directly manages individual sound
> channels. So I am not clear on how the PC would combine the 5.1
> information onto the optical channel, nor am I clear on how the receiver
> would deal with it. I assume it would just be PCM? Would that set the
> signal to the same information for all five channels?

Sounds to me like you are out of luck with your gaming console if it
only provides analog audio out. Then you'll have to provide enough
stereo cables to go from the surround outputs of your game console to
the discrete 5.1 or 7.1 inputs on your receiver. Most modern A/V
receivers have at least one set of discreet audio inputs. Otherwise,
the rest of your system will be best served comnnected digitally with
a single digital cable.

[Dick Pierce[_2_]]

Audio_Empire wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:23:55 PM UTC-8, W wrote:
>
>>And presumably using three separate RCA cables from the sound card would
>>preserve more of the 5.1 dimensionality than using a single optical audio
>
> Please understand the optical cable is most likely NOT analog audio,
> It's DIGITAL audio out,

I'd be willing to bet good money that you can replace
"most likely" with "most certainly" in the above
sentence without fear that you'd be wrong.

--
+--------------------------------+
+ Dick Pierce |
+ Professional Audio Development |
+--------------------------------+

[Arny Krueger[_5_]]

"W" > wrote in message
...
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "W" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > What is the best way to feed a Windows PC sound system to a receiver?
>> > The
>> > intent is to have one receiver be shared by multiple PCs, as well as by
> an
>> > audiophile quality Bluray. I want to have a high end 5.1 or 7.1
>> > setup,
>> > but
>> > I also want the PC to be able to use Windows DirectX sound interface to
>> > directly control all five channels. Games played on Windows systems
>> > use
>> > DirectX to control the individual sound channels.

>> What sort of audio interface is already in the PC?

>> Many PC's have coax or optical digital audio outputs. They may also have
>> a
>> HDMI video card that usually includes support for 8 channels of digital
>> audio.

> How can a PC game transmit 5.1 information on an optical audio cable when
> it
> cannot use DTS or Dolby?

It can't do that directly. I understand that some game oriented audio
interfaces may include encoders for that purpose, but I'm not a game guru.

> On HDMI, are you saying that most video cards on PCs now also support 7.1
> sound?

Yes. Modern HDMI video hardware generally supports 4 stereo audio
interfaces for playback.

> I had not realized that. Video cards manufacturers are not
> advertising that in their data sheets.

It is implied by saying "HDMI audio".

[W]

Sorry for bottom posting but for some reason my newsreader refuses to put
markers in front of your post.

Let's say that I go with your suggestion and get rid of soundcard and use
HDMI on the video card for all sound and video transmission together.

Let me try to simplify my questions for that recommended configuration:

1) Do all video cards with HDMI outputs now support digital audio on the
same HDMI? I haven't seen that on data sheets for the gaming video cards I
have used in past. Is it a required / standard feature all cards will have
or is it something specialized I need to search for specifically on a
Windows video card?

2) I still don't understand how a Windows based software application can
send 5.1 or 7.1 audio on the HDMI. It can pass a bitstream from a DVD
with DTS or Dolby encoding. Okay, that is the easy case. It can
downconvert to 3.1 and send by PCM. Okay, that's a clear case too. Most
games are written to DirectSound API, which apparently does not support
LPCM. I think you are right I need a soundcard that supports WASAPI and
then games that support WASAPI.

3) On many devices - such as the Oppo Bluray Player - sending an
uncompressed 5.1 or 7.1 audio stream requires a *second* HDMI port dedicated
to just the sound stream. I guess there is not enough bandwidth on one
HDMI for both the video and the uncompressed sound? If yes, that suggests
that what I would additionally need is a dedicated soundcard for the PC that
outputs on HDMI. Does such a card exist whose drivers support WASAPI?

In terms of my being lost on this issue, I think there is no shame in being
confused. First, it is confusing. There are a huge number of variables
at work here (hardware interfaces, software APIs, encodings, system software
settings, receiver capabilities, and decoupling of the sound and audio
channels to accomodate huge bandwidth issues of uncompressed audio). The
Internet is filled with postings of people who are absolutely totally lost
on these issues and are unable to get their PCs to work with receivers.
When I search on DirectSound and LPCM, I find exactly zero pages that have
both words on them together (further confirmation of your point on WASAPI).
Second, one gets the feeling that Microsoft never tried very hard to get 5.1
or 7.1 sound integrated with receivers. So to some extent this is a
bleeding edge request (it shouldn't be).

--
W


"ScottW" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 15, 8:23 pm, "W" > wrote:
> "Audio_Empire" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:56:40 AM UTC-8, W wrote:
> > > What is the best way to feed a Windows PC sound system to a receiver?
> The
> > > intent is to have one receiver be shared by multiple PCs, as well as
by
> an
> > > audiophile quality Bluray. I want to have a high end 5.1 or 7.1 setup,
> but
> > > I also want the PC to be able to use Windows DirectX sound interface
to
> > > directly control all five channels. Games played on Windows systems
> use
> > > DirectX to control the individual sound channels.
>
> > > There are systems like the Creative DDTS-100 that solve this problem
> very
> > > well, but this box wants to feed PC speakers. It cannot work with
> > > audiophile quality speaker systems. If I go with a true audiophile
> > > receiver, do I lose the ability to have the PC control individual
sound
> > > channels? If for example I feed an optical audio cable from the PC
> sound
> > > card to the receiver, it cannot encapsulate the 5.1 sound into a known
> > > format like DTS 5.1.
>
> > > It seems to me what you really want is a receiver that can take as
> direct
> > > input the individual channel cables from the PC sound card? Does such
> a
> > > receiver exist? Is there a better way to achieve what I am looking for
> > > here?
>
> > If I understand you, you want to take multiple optical digital audio
> > output from multiple PCs, a gaming console, and a Blu-Ray player and
> > feed it to an A/V receiver with built-in Dolby Digital and DTS
> > decoding. If so, you will want some- thing like this:
>
> >http://www.cablestogo.com/product/40697
>
> > This is the recommended method. However, if you want to transfer AUDIO
> > in 5.1 or 7.1 channels, a switch that will transfer 6 or 7 channels of
> > discrete audio at once is a tall order and not really necessary
> > because with virtually all current A/V receivers, it's redundant. Only
> > the digital signal needs to be transferred from the computers and the
> > gaming console and the Blu-Ray player as the decoding for all is done
> > in the receiver.
>
> > Coaxial digital may be a better way to transfer the 5.1/7.1 digital
> > audio signal from your sources to your A/V receiver. In that case, you
> > can use one of these:
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/awfupt6
>
> > At $17.00 each, you merely use the the 4 video RCA inputs (the yellow
> > ones) for the coaxial digital, and if you need more than 4 into 2, you
> > can cascade these boxes to obtain the number of sources you need. I.E.
> > 1 box gives you four sources, 2 in series give you seven, three give
> > you 10 sources. etc.
>
> Maybe this is my misunderstanding, but a PC game under Windows wants to
> control the individual sound channels directly. Are suggesting that by
> feeding the soundcard outputs to the analog RCA connections on the switch
> you are showing, and then passing those to the receiver, it will give an
> identical result to directly attaching PC speakers to the sound card?
>
> And presumably using three separate RCA cables from the sound card would
> preserve more of the 5.1 dimensionality than using a single optical audio
> cable from the soundcard? My concern is that optical cables normally work
> only when passing a bitsream that needs decoding at the receiver. To my
> understanding, a PC game isn't using DTS or Dolby bitstream at all. It's
> using the "DirectSound" interface which directly manages individual sound
> channels. So I am not clear on how the PC would combine the 5.1
> information onto the optical channel, nor am I clear on how the receiver
> would deal with it. I assume it would just be PCM? Would that set the
> signal to the same information for all five channels?

Your question has opened the rats nest of PC obsolesence and
incompatibility
both in H/W (sound and video cards) as well as S/W (game apps) and F/W
sound card drivers and O/S etc.
And your presumption comment about 3 RCA cables is...pardon me...but
seriously confused.

Regardless.... if you want to check your PC digital (optical or coax)
formats
just connect to the receiver and observe its decoding mode.
I can switch my cable box from AC3 (dolby digital 5.1) to PCM.
When in PCM mode the A/V receiver displays "Pro-logic" which indicates
a 3 channel stream the receiver is decoding for surround, not 5.1.

Most gaming forums indicate you need to enable WASAPI for the game to
control the bitstream output. Then it's just a matter or what audio
output options will the game support through your card. You shouldn't
even be able to control volume through your sound card if your getting
a pure bitstream out from the game.
Checking DTS capable receiver sometimes is a universal "get out of the
way and just stream" switch for the PC sound card.
However, if the game wants to send full uncompressed 5.1 channel audio
(LPCM), you can't do that over SPDIF or optical. Not enough BW. You
need an HDMI interface which is really the standard way to go these
days and receivers with mulitple HDMI inputs and/or HDMI switches are
readily available.
If your PC video card doesn't have HDMI....upgrade the video card to
one with HDMI and audio support and dump your old sound card...it's
obsolete.

But given what you've said...your surround receiver might not support
LPCM (if it supports Dolby TrueHD or DTSHD it most likely will) which
means you may need some upgrade on that end if you want true
audiophile uncompressed mult-channel support there as well.

Bottom line is HDMI is the way to connect both digital audio and video
these days.
All the newest PCs, laptops, and tablets support it while all the
other options are being phased out.

ScottW

[Audio_Empire[_2_]]

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 7:20:50 AM UTC-8, Dick Pierce wrote:
> Audio_Empire wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:23:55 PM UTC-8, W wrote:
> >
> >>And presumably using three separate RCA cables from the sound card would
> >>preserve more of the 5.1 dimensionality than using a single optical audio
> >
> > Please understand the optical cable is most likely NOT analog audio,
> > It's DIGITAL audio out,
>
> I'd be willing to bet good money that you can replace
> "most likely" with "most certainly" in the above
> sentence without fear that you'd be wrong.

Sure, but I know little of the OP's situation. I don't know what sound
card he's using or even what brand/model of A/V receiver he's using
(or if even it IS an AV receiver). At one time several manufacturers
were using Toslink cables to carry audio. You are right that it's
probably almost assuredly digital, but not knowing for sure, I hedged
a bit.

[W]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
...
> > Sorry for bottom posting but for some reason my newsreader refuses to
put
> > markers in front of your post.
>
> Looks like a top post to me :) Blame google groups.

Sorry, it started out as a bottom post and I reversed it and didn't change
the label.


> > Let's say that I go with your suggestion and get rid of soundcard and
use
> > HDMI on the video card for all sound and video transmission together.
> >
> > Let me try to simplify my questions for that recommended configuration:
> >
> > 1) Do all video cards with HDMI outputs now support digital audio on the
> > same HDMI? I haven't seen that on data sheets for the gaming video cards
I
> > have used in past. Is it a required / standard feature all cards will
have
> > or is it something specialized I need to search for specifically on a
> > Windows video card?
>
> I would never say all but a relative lowend card based on the AMD/
> Radeon 6450
> spec sheet here says:
>
>
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/amd-radeon-hd-6000/hd-6450/pages/amd-radeon-hd-6450-overview.aspx#2

So to try to condense a lot of information into a little, what I need to do
is:

1) Get a recent vintage video card that supports digital 7.1 sound over HDMI

2) Make sure that card supports WASAPI interface under Windows

3) Make sure the game software supports WASAPI

4) Configure the WASAPI playback to be LPCM over HDMI

5) Make sure the receiver supports LPCM

Is that basically it?


> > In terms of my being lost on this issue, I think there is no shame in
being
> > confused. First, it is confusing.
>
> No doubt...but it appeared you were mixing analogue channel outputs of
> the sound card with digital outputs. A pretty fundament mistake but
> not unusual I guess,

My Creative X-Fi Titanium sound card has these outputs:

3. Line Out 4 jack Connects to the Rear Left and Rear Right inputs on
powered analog speakers or an A/V receiver.
4. Line Out 3 jack Connects to the Front Center and Subwoofer inputs on
powered analog speakers or an A/V receiver.
5. Line Out 2 jack Connects to the Side Left and Side Right inputs on
powered analog speakers or an A/V receiver.
6. Line Out 1 jack Connects to the Front Left and Front Right inputs on
powered analog speakers or an A/V receiver. Also connects to stereo
headphones with a 3.50 mm (1/8-inch) plug.

Those look like analog and I never thought that they were digital. The
problem I was having was that I saw a clear way to get control of 5.1 sound
by using those analog ports with direct attachments to PC speakers. What I
couldn't see was any way for the PC gaming software to put 5.1 or 7.1
channels onto an optical audio cable (the SPDIF port on sound card). As it
turns out my feeling that this was not possible was right. What I needed
was a different software interface (WASAPI) that supports uncompressed LPCM,
and I needed different hardware (i.e., HDMI), to make that work. So my
"gut" that my current configuration couldn't support digital 5.1 originated
in the game software was correct. I couldn't articulate my way through it
because there were multiple pieces I just didn't understand yet.

Thanks for your help!!

--
W

[Audio_Empire[_2_]]

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:06:56 PM UTC-8, W wrote:
> Sorry for bottom posting but for some reason my newsreader refuses to put
> markers in front of your post.
>
> Let's say that I go with your suggestion and get rid of soundcard and use
> HDMI on the video card for all sound and video transmission together.
>
> Let me try to simplify my questions for that recommended configuration:
>
> 1) Do all video cards with HDMI outputs now support digital audio on the
> same HDMI? I haven't seen that on data sheets for the gaming video cards I
> have used in past. Is it a required / standard feature all cards will have
> or is it something specialized I need to search for specifically on a
> Windows video card?
>
> 2) I still don't understand how a Windows based software application can
> send 5.1 or 7.1 audio on the HDMI.

Whether 2 channel, 4 channel, 5.1 of 7.1, or WASAPI, digital sound is
just a bitstream. The CODECs for each format are different, of course,
and whether or not your A/V receiver can support all of the possible
digital formats and CODECs, of course, depends upon the receiver
itself

[Arny Krueger[_5_]]

"W" > wrote in message
...
> Sorry for bottom posting but for some reason my newsreader refuses to put
> markers in front of your post.
>
> Let's say that I go with your suggestion and get rid of soundcard and use
> HDMI on the video card for all sound and video transmission together.
>
> Let me try to simplify my questions for that recommended configuration:
>
> 1) Do all video cards with HDMI outputs now support digital audio on the
> same HDMI? I haven't seen that on data sheets for the gaming video cards
> I
> have used in past. Is it a required / standard feature all cards will
> have
> or is it something specialized I need to search for specifically on a
> Windows video card?

I haven't encountered a new HDMI video card that lacked 8 channels of
digital audio output for years.

> 2) I still don't understand how a Windows based software application can
> send 5.1 or 7.1 audio on the HDMI.

I see nothing complex about the concept of 4 stereo channels that can convey
up to 8 discrete PCM channels.

> 3) On many devices - such as the Oppo Bluray Player - sending an
> uncompressed 5.1 or 7.1 audio stream requires a *second* HDMI port
> dedicated
> to just the sound stream. I guess there is not enough bandwidth on one
> HDMI for both the video and the uncompressed sound? If yes, that
> suggests
> that what I would additionally need is a dedicated soundcard for the PC
> that
> outputs on HDMI. Does such a card exist whose drivers support WASAPI?

There is more than enough bandwidth to carry high bandwidth audio over HDMI
cables. HDMI audio is interleaved with the video, and carried via time
division multiplexing (TDM). The designated time slot for HDMI audio is
called "The back porch" and corresponds to what used be called the retrace
or blanking interval.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

"Transition Minimized Differential Signaling (TMDS) on HDMI interleaves
video, audio and auxiliary data using three different packet types, called
the Video Data Period, the Data Island Period and the Control Period.[63]
During the Video Data Period, the pixels of an active video line are
transmitted.[63] During the Data Island period (which occurs during the
horizontal and vertical blanking intervals), audio and auxiliary data are
transmitted within a series of packets.[63] The Control Period occurs
between Video and Data Island periods"

As far as the details of video card HDMI audio support goes, you need to
read up on the specifications of the chipset manufacturers, who are
primarily AMD or ATI on the one hand, and Nvidia on the other.