sound samples from movies and copyright

[carrion gasping]

Suppose I'd want to incorporate a movie quote into a song, as spoken by
the actor.

For instance, I might rip Keanu Reeves' voice from a "Matrix" DVD as he
says "There is no spoon", and use the recording of these four words as a
sound sample in a song that I wrote myself.

Am I allowed to do that? Do I have to ask anyone? Are there any legal
considerations I should take care of?

Pointers to literature are also most welcome.

CG

[EggHd]

<< For instance, I might rip Keanu Reeves' voice from a "Matrix" DVD as he
says "There is no spoon", and use the recording of these four words as a
sound sample in a song that I wrote myself. >>

I've been there. You will need 2 clearances. One from the movie studio who
released the film and the other from Keanu Reeves.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[EggHd]

<< For instance, I might rip Keanu Reeves' voice from a "Matrix" DVD as he
says "There is no spoon", and use the recording of these four words as a
sound sample in a song that I wrote myself. >>

I've been there. You will need 2 clearances. One from the movie studio who
released the film and the other from Keanu Reeves.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Tommy B]

Do you own that performance?
Re-record yourself or someone who sounds like KR saying the line. lots less
problems.
Tom
"carrion gasping" > wrote in message
...
> Suppose I'd want to incorporate a movie quote into a song, as spoken by
> the actor.
>
> For instance, I might rip Keanu Reeves' voice from a "Matrix" DVD as he
> says "There is no spoon", and use the recording of these four words as a
> sound sample in a song that I wrote myself.
>
> Am I allowed to do that? Do I have to ask anyone? Are there any legal
> considerations I should take care of?
>
> Pointers to literature are also most welcome.
>
> CG

[Tommy B]

Do you own that performance?
Re-record yourself or someone who sounds like KR saying the line. lots less
problems.
Tom
"carrion gasping" > wrote in message
...
> Suppose I'd want to incorporate a movie quote into a song, as spoken by
> the actor.
>
> For instance, I might rip Keanu Reeves' voice from a "Matrix" DVD as he
> says "There is no spoon", and use the recording of these four words as a
> sound sample in a song that I wrote myself.
>
> Am I allowed to do that? Do I have to ask anyone? Are there any legal
> considerations I should take care of?
>
> Pointers to literature are also most welcome.
>
> CG

[EggHd]

<< Re-record yourself or someone who sounds like KR saying the line. >>

You are still using someone else's material that will need to be cleared.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[EggHd]

<< Re-record yourself or someone who sounds like KR saying the line. >>

You are still using someone else's material that will need to be cleared.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Ty Ford]

In Article >, carrion gasping
> wrote:
>Suppose I'd want to incorporate a movie quote into a song, as spoken by
>the actor.
>
>For instance, I might rip Keanu Reeves' voice from a "Matrix" DVD as he
>says "There is no spoon", and use the recording of these four words as a
>sound sample in a song that I wrote myself.
>
>Am I allowed to do that? Do I have to ask anyone? Are there any legal
>considerations I should take care of?
>
>Pointers to literature are also most welcome.
>
>CG

You'd be stealing Mr. Reeve's performance as well as infringing on the
copyright of teh film itself. So you'd be breaking two laws, not just one.

Go back and read that copyright notice that runs infront of the movie.

There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to steal
someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of a
creative person.

Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
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[Ty Ford]

In Article >, carrion gasping
> wrote:
>Suppose I'd want to incorporate a movie quote into a song, as spoken by
>the actor.
>
>For instance, I might rip Keanu Reeves' voice from a "Matrix" DVD as he
>says "There is no spoon", and use the recording of these four words as a
>sound sample in a song that I wrote myself.
>
>Am I allowed to do that? Do I have to ask anyone? Are there any legal
>considerations I should take care of?
>
>Pointers to literature are also most welcome.
>
>CG

You'd be stealing Mr. Reeve's performance as well as infringing on the
copyright of teh film itself. So you'd be breaking two laws, not just one.

Go back and read that copyright notice that runs infront of the movie.

There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to steal
someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of a
creative person.

Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[Ty Ford]

In Article >,
(EggHd) wrote:
><< Re-record yourself or someone who sounds like KR saying the line. >>
>
>You are still using someone else's material that will need to be cleared.

This is true.

Ty

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[Ty Ford]

In Article >,
(EggHd) wrote:
><< Re-record yourself or someone who sounds like KR saying the line. >>
>
>You are still using someone else's material that will need to be cleared.

This is true.

Ty

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[MikeK]

"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
>
> You'd be stealing Mr. Reeve's performance as well as infringing on the
> copyright of teh film itself. So you'd be breaking two laws, not just one.
>
> Go back and read that copyright notice that runs infront of the movie.
>
> There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to steal
> someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of a
> creative person.
>

Unless your work is a comment on the movie, the phrase, something like that.
Then it's not theft, it's a necessary part of the work of art. And then you
fall into the vague areas of copyright...

[MikeK]

"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
>
> You'd be stealing Mr. Reeve's performance as well as infringing on the
> copyright of teh film itself. So you'd be breaking two laws, not just one.
>
> Go back and read that copyright notice that runs infront of the movie.
>
> There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to steal
> someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of a
> creative person.
>

Unless your work is a comment on the movie, the phrase, something like that.
Then it's not theft, it's a necessary part of the work of art. And then you
fall into the vague areas of copyright...

[knud]

><< Re-record yourself or someone who sounds like KR saying the line. >>
>You are still using someone else's material that will need to be cleared.

"There is no spoon"??
blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[knud]

><< Re-record yourself or someone who sounds like KR saying the line. >>
>You are still using someone else's material that will need to be cleared.

"There is no spoon"??
blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[knud]

>There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to steal
>someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of a
>creative person.

Are you suggesting that the Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique is not creative
because it uses a few well-placed samples as "quotes" that tie into the lyrics?



blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[knud]

>There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to steal
>someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of a
>creative person.

Are you suggesting that the Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique is not creative
because it uses a few well-placed samples as "quotes" that tie into the lyrics?



blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[knud]

What if you just say "is no Spoon" instead of "there is no spoon"? How about
just "spoon"?


blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[knud]

What if you just say "is no Spoon" instead of "there is no spoon"? How about
just "spoon"?


blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[carrion gasping]

EggHd in >:

><< For instance, I might rip Keanu Reeves' voice from a "Matrix" DVD as he
>says "There is no spoon", and use the recording of these four words as a
>sound sample in a song that I wrote myself. >>
>
>I've been there.

Where -- not this precise situation involving "there is no spoon", or
were you?

>You will need 2 clearances. One from the movie studio who
>released the film and the other from Keanu Reeves.

Yeah, I figure that's the safest thing to do. Meanwhile I read up a bit
on http://fairuse.stanford.edu/, and it seems there are no hard and fast
rules here. The absence of hard and fast rules invite litigation, and
I guess it's best to avoid lawsuits against media companies because
you'll be broke afterwards even if you prevail in the end.

Thanks for the input.

CG

[carrion gasping]

EggHd in >:

><< For instance, I might rip Keanu Reeves' voice from a "Matrix" DVD as he
>says "There is no spoon", and use the recording of these four words as a
>sound sample in a song that I wrote myself. >>
>
>I've been there.

Where -- not this precise situation involving "there is no spoon", or
were you?

>You will need 2 clearances. One from the movie studio who
>released the film and the other from Keanu Reeves.

Yeah, I figure that's the safest thing to do. Meanwhile I read up a bit
on http://fairuse.stanford.edu/, and it seems there are no hard and fast
rules here. The absence of hard and fast rules invite litigation, and
I guess it's best to avoid lawsuits against media companies because
you'll be broke afterwards even if you prevail in the end.

Thanks for the input.

CG

[EggHd]

<< Where -- not this precise situation involving "there is no spoon", or
were you? >>

No. But it was another movie and actor we had to get clearance from both the
studio and the actor. pain in the rear.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[EggHd]

<< Where -- not this precise situation involving "there is no spoon", or
were you? >>

No. But it was another movie and actor we had to get clearance from both the
studio and the actor. pain in the rear.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Ty Ford]

In Article >, "MikeK" >
wrote:
>
>"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> You'd be stealing Mr. Reeve's performance as well as infringing on the
>> copyright of teh film itself. So you'd be breaking two laws, not just one.
>>
>> Go back and read that copyright notice that runs infront of the movie.
>>
>> There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to steal
>> someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of a
>> creative person.
>>
>
>Unless your work is a comment on the movie, the phrase, something like that.
>Then it's not theft, it's a necessary part of the work of art. And then you
>fall into the vague areas of copyright...


Right, what do they call that, "fair use" or something like that. Then
there's parody.

Ty

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click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[Ty Ford]

In Article >, "MikeK" >
wrote:
>
>"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> You'd be stealing Mr. Reeve's performance as well as infringing on the
>> copyright of teh film itself. So you'd be breaking two laws, not just one.
>>
>> Go back and read that copyright notice that runs infront of the movie.
>>
>> There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to steal
>> someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of a
>> creative person.
>>
>
>Unless your work is a comment on the movie, the phrase, something like that.
>Then it's not theft, it's a necessary part of the work of art. And then you
>fall into the vague areas of copyright...


Right, what do they call that, "fair use" or something like that. Then
there's parody.

Ty

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
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[Ty Ford]

In Article >,
(knud) wrote:
>>There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to steal
>>someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of a
>>creative person.
>
> Are you suggesting that the Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique is not creative
>because it uses a few well-placed samples as "quotes" that tie into the lyrics?

Did they clear it or rip it off? It's not as creative as being handed all
the letters in the alphabet and coming up with one's own words.

Although I guess that's just a matter of law. No one has copyrighted the
alphabet have they? Now there's an idea! Where's Hank?

Regards,

Ty Ford



**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
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[Ty Ford]

In Article >,
(knud) wrote:
>>There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to steal
>>someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of a
>>creative person.
>
> Are you suggesting that the Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique is not creative
>because it uses a few well-placed samples as "quotes" that tie into the lyrics?

Did they clear it or rip it off? It's not as creative as being handed all
the letters in the alphabet and coming up with one's own words.

Although I guess that's just a matter of law. No one has copyrighted the
alphabet have they? Now there's an idea! Where's Hank?

Regards,

Ty Ford



**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Ty Ford wrote:

> Although I guess that's just a matter of law. No one has copyrighted the
> alphabet have they?

Who is that guy who said he likes reading the dictionary because all the
other books are in there?

> Now there's an idea! Where's Hank?

Working on a new and soon to be patented soup. Sure, you think you've
head of it before, that there's prior recipe. You ever checked your bowl
to see if _all_ the letters are in there? I didn't think so.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Ty Ford wrote:

> Although I guess that's just a matter of law. No one has copyrighted the
> alphabet have they?

Who is that guy who said he likes reading the dictionary because all the
other books are in there?

> Now there's an idea! Where's Hank?

Working on a new and soon to be patented soup. Sure, you think you've
head of it before, that there's prior recipe. You ever checked your bowl
to see if _all_ the letters are in there? I didn't think so.

--
ha

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
> In Article >,
> (knud) wrote:
> >>There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to
steal
> >>someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of
a
> >>creative person.

I admit when I hear young kids talking about a turntable being their
"instrument" I still cringe a little but to say they have no talent is
absurd. I'm not talking about the "scratching" stuff (which may be
difficult, I don't know, never tried it). If you think it's easy though
making all that stuff match with cool segues that maintain your interest try
doing one sometime. The tools like Acid have made the beat matching much
easier but like anything else it's the art, not the technical details, that
separates the men from the boys. It's MUCH harder than it sounds/looks.

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
> In Article >,
> (knud) wrote:
> >>There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to
steal
> >>someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of
a
> >>creative person.

I admit when I hear young kids talking about a turntable being their
"instrument" I still cringe a little but to say they have no talent is
absurd. I'm not talking about the "scratching" stuff (which may be
difficult, I don't know, never tried it). If you think it's easy though
making all that stuff match with cool segues that maintain your interest try
doing one sometime. The tools like Acid have made the beat matching much
easier but like anything else it's the art, not the technical details, that
separates the men from the boys. It's MUCH harder than it sounds/looks.

[carrion gasping]

Ty Ford in >:

>Go back and read that copyright notice that runs infront of the movie.

I did that already, but otherwise that would have been useful advice in
some circumstances. Thanks anyway for trying to help.

>There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to steal
>someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of a
>creative person.

Yeah, I guess you are correct. It would expose a remarkably limited
concept of "creativity", and hint at a hazardous amount of ignorance,
but none of these are rare. Hence, I think we can safely conclude that
"those" people exist.

I'm not too sure what it has to do with the question, but I appreciate
your concern.

CG

[carrion gasping]

knud in >:

>><< Re-record yourself or someone who sounds like KR saying the line. >>
>>You are still using someone else's material that will need to be cleared.
>
> "There is no spoon"??

Incidentally, there's an article on Stanford's web site covering this
very topic, i.e.: "Copyright Protection for Short Phrases" at

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/commentary_and_analysis/2003_09_stim.html

Having read this, I'm led to believe that "There is no spoon" quote is
an excellent candidate for a copyrighted phrase, yes. See for yourself.

CG

[Ty Ford]

In Article <BGphb.725528$uu5.121979@sccrnsc04>, "Ricky W. Hunt"
> wrote:
>"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
>> In Article >,
>> (knud) wrote:
>> >>There are those who might offer that if you are reduced to having to
>steal
>> >>someone else's performance to "create" your own art, you're not much of
>a
>> >>creative person.
>
>I admit when I hear young kids talking about a turntable being their
>"instrument" I still cringe a little but to say they have no talent is
>absurd. I'm not talking about the "scratching" stuff (which may be
>difficult, I don't know, never tried it). If you think it's easy though
>making all that stuff match with cool segues that maintain your interest try
>doing one sometime. The tools like Acid have made the beat matching much
>easier but like anything else it's the art, not the technical details, that
>separates the men from the boys. It's MUCH harder than it sounds/looks.


Hey I segued (and crossfaded) vinyl LIVE in sets of music on FM radio
1970-1976 before it (pretty much) became the fast food audio of this
country. I know how to asemble other people's art as well as the next person.

That was creative assembly. I didn't try to take credit for the music I used
and we payed ASCAP and BMI (who in turn payed the composers) for the
privlege to play that music.

Regards,

Ty Ford


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[Ty Ford]

In Article >, carrion gasping
> wrote:
>knud in >:
>
>>><< Re-record yourself or someone who sounds like KR saying the line. >>
>>>You are still using someone else's material that will need to be cleared.
>>
>> "There is no spoon"??
>
>Incidentally, there's an article on Stanford's web site covering this
>very topic, i.e.: "Copyright Protection for Short Phrases" at
>
>http://fairuse.stanford.edu/commentary_and_analysis/2003_09_stim.html
>
>Having read this, I'm led to believe that "There is no spoon" quote is
>an excellent candidate for a copyrighted phrase, yes. See for yourself.
>
>CG

The article is an interesting rhetorical excercise. The truth is, you
probably won't get nabbed unless you rip off an entity with too many
lawyers, or your pockets are judged too deep.

OTOH, a very small eatery in Baltimore was prevented from using the last
name of its owner (Sony) by a very large entertainment conglomerate.

I wouldn't want to be you in a court with a printed out copy of the
above-mentioned webpage as your only defense.

Then there's the , "It may be legal, but it's not moral" position.

Regards,

Ty (ad nauseum) Ford

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[knud]

> Are you suggesting that the Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique is not creative
>>because it uses a few well-placed samples as "quotes" that tie into the
>lyrics?
>
>Did they clear it or rip it off? It's not as creative as being handed all
>the letters in the alphabet and coming up with one's own words.

So working within a set of limitations is not creative? Whoops there goes
the entire history of music! Everything has a formal limitation by neccesity,
even works of the extreme avante garde.

By the way, Paul's Boutique has more lyrics than any album I can think of
so tossing in a couple samples that tie into the lyrics simply adds a little
flava. Making a brief phrase tie into a song is harder than making up some new
line in actual practice.


blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[knud]

>If you think it's easy though
>making all that stuff match with cool segues that maintain your interest try
>doing one sometime

It takes a lot of time and skill to do a good job of it. These days many
don't even try, they just slap a couple of drum machine loops together.


blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[knud]

Here's your solution: "hair is no spoon"


blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!