Dubbing solo brass

[Rasmus Fynbo]

Hi All
I am new to this forum, but hope it is the right one..
I have recently been recording brass for a CD for the first time. I only
worked with one trombone player and recorded the session with two mics (one
closeup and the other for the room ambience).
I made the player dub the recording so I could create a fatter sound. The
result, however, was pretty bad. The parts played in unison sounded strangly
hollow (I tried phaseshifting one of the takes, but that didn't help). I
only used comp. on the recordings - no EQ so far.
I got the best result by using only one mic pr. take and the change mics
inbetween takes.
I would like to create an illusion of a somewhat more massive brass-band
than the actual solo player I have acess to.
How would you do it, and can you explain to me what I do wrong?

Any help would be greatly apreciated
Rasmus Fynbo
Denmark

[knud]

>I would like to create an illusion of a somewhat more massive brass-band
>> than the actual solo player I have acess to.

You need at least two players to really pull this off. However, you may be
able to fake it by layering *good* trumpet samples with the 'bone. Or try a sax
sample. Or try both! The best way to do this is to use a speaker on a chair by
your 'bonist and play the sample through that. The "air" blend makes all the
difference. Hoever just plugging your synth in directly and overdubbing to
match the bone line can work suprisginly well. But keep the 'bone higher in the
mix.

Try writing the part so the bone can overdub in octaves rather than
unison, or stress more harmony parts.

Ditch the ambient mic, set up a mic or a stereo pair. Have your player
move to a different spot on each take. Have him switch to a different 'bone if
he/she has one too.

Just so you know, unison trombones sound phasey in real life! Ever hear 3
trombones unis in an orchestra? It actually sounds pretty phasey as the
dynamics increase and the "brassiness" comes out.

If you can muster a sax or trumpet player (both are easy to find... a ton
of people play trumpet and even high schoolers are often fairly competent on
trumpet) then record em both at once... then do your double and pan them. It
sounds huge. A suprisingly good way to get a similar effect is to have a short
delay panned opposite a single track of the brass. This also sounds pretty huge
in a mix and like brass in general doesn't take up much sonic space. If your
players can't do a good double then the second approach may save the day.

I wish there were more bands with brass sections around that use them in a
non-generic manner.


blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[knud]

>I would like to create an illusion of a somewhat more massive brass-band
>> than the actual solo player I have acess to.

You need at least two players to really pull this off. However, you may be
able to fake it by layering *good* trumpet samples with the 'bone. Or try a sax
sample. Or try both! The best way to do this is to use a speaker on a chair by
your 'bonist and play the sample through that. The "air" blend makes all the
difference. Hoever just plugging your synth in directly and overdubbing to
match the bone line can work suprisginly well. But keep the 'bone higher in the
mix.

Try writing the part so the bone can overdub in octaves rather than
unison, or stress more harmony parts.

Ditch the ambient mic, set up a mic or a stereo pair. Have your player
move to a different spot on each take. Have him switch to a different 'bone if
he/she has one too.

Just so you know, unison trombones sound phasey in real life! Ever hear 3
trombones unis in an orchestra? It actually sounds pretty phasey as the
dynamics increase and the "brassiness" comes out.

If you can muster a sax or trumpet player (both are easy to find... a ton
of people play trumpet and even high schoolers are often fairly competent on
trumpet) then record em both at once... then do your double and pan them. It
sounds huge. A suprisingly good way to get a similar effect is to have a short
delay panned opposite a single track of the brass. This also sounds pretty huge
in a mix and like brass in general doesn't take up much sonic space. If your
players can't do a good double then the second approach may save the day.

I wish there were more bands with brass sections around that use them in a
non-generic manner.


blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[Rasmus Fynbo]

Yes, I panned the takes hard left/right..
I don't want the sound of a brass section as such.. I just want the single
trombone I use to fill more, to be fatter and I supposed this could be done
simply by dubbing it (as with vocals or guitar).
But as it seems, by dubbing it the sounds become rather artificial..

Rasmus

"anthony.gosnell" > wrote in message
...
> "Rasmus Fynbo" > wrote
> > I would like to create an illusion of a somewhat more massive brass-band
> > than the actual solo player I have acess to.
> > How would you do it, and can you explain to me what I do wrong?
>
> Did you pan the two takes?
> If you want the sound of a brass section you will have to do some
> harmonizing.
>
> --
> Anthony Gosnell
>
> to reply remove nospam.
>
>
>
>

[Rasmus Fynbo]

Yes, I panned the takes hard left/right..
I don't want the sound of a brass section as such.. I just want the single
trombone I use to fill more, to be fatter and I supposed this could be done
simply by dubbing it (as with vocals or guitar).
But as it seems, by dubbing it the sounds become rather artificial..

Rasmus

"anthony.gosnell" > wrote in message
...
> "Rasmus Fynbo" > wrote
> > I would like to create an illusion of a somewhat more massive brass-band
> > than the actual solo player I have acess to.
> > How would you do it, and can you explain to me what I do wrong?
>
> Did you pan the two takes?
> If you want the sound of a brass section you will have to do some
> harmonizing.
>
> --
> Anthony Gosnell
>
> to reply remove nospam.
>
>
>
>

[knud]

> I just want the single
>trombone I use to fill more, to be fatter and I supposed this could be done
>simply by dubbing it (as with vocals or guitar).

If it's a solo, why dub it? A solo 'bone is an awesome sound. If it's
thin, pump the low eq, add some reverb, whatever.

blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[knud]

> I just want the single
>trombone I use to fill more, to be fatter and I supposed this could be done
>simply by dubbing it (as with vocals or guitar).

If it's a solo, why dub it? A solo 'bone is an awesome sound. If it's
thin, pump the low eq, add some reverb, whatever.

blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!