Dithering/Maximising question-

[Om_Audio]

Hello-
I use Waves L2 for my projects- I like the "Hi Res CD Master" preset- but I
was wondering- should I maximise while the file is still 88.2/32bit and then
dither once it has been converted to 44.1/16bit or is there some reason to
do both at 44.1/16?

I know dithering is done dead last after the file is 44.1/16 but I thought
maybe maximising while the bit rate was still high would be good-

Thanks-

Om

[Luke Kaven]

"Om_Audio" > wrote:

>Hello-
>I use Waves L2 for my projects- I like the "Hi Res CD Master" preset- but I
>was wondering- should I maximise while the file is still 88.2/32bit and then
>dither once it has been converted to 44.1/16bit or is there some reason to
>do both at 44.1/16?
>
>I know dithering is done dead last after the file is 44.1/16 but I thought
>maybe maximising while the bit rate was still high would be good-
>
>Thanks-
>
>Om

You are right. You should process while you are still at 88.2/32.
There is information loss after you truncate, and you will introduce
more error adjusting processing then.

Luke

[Luke Kaven]

"Om_Audio" > wrote:

>Hello-
>I use Waves L2 for my projects- I like the "Hi Res CD Master" preset- but I
>was wondering- should I maximise while the file is still 88.2/32bit and then
>dither once it has been converted to 44.1/16bit or is there some reason to
>do both at 44.1/16?
>
>I know dithering is done dead last after the file is 44.1/16 but I thought
>maybe maximising while the bit rate was still high would be good-
>
>Thanks-
>
>Om

You are right. You should process while you are still at 88.2/32.
There is information loss after you truncate, and you will introduce
more error adjusting processing then.

Luke

[EnJneer]

Process your audio file in every way you need to while it is in its original
format.

You've got to dither at the same time as the 44/16 files is being created,
not after. why dither something that is already truncated?

--
J
Freelance Engineer Producer
(Delete "no.spam" from my e-mail address to reply direct)


"Om_Audio" > wrote in message
. net...
> Hello-
> I use Waves L2 for my projects- I like the "Hi Res CD Master" preset- but
I
> was wondering- should I maximise while the file is still 88.2/32bit and
then
> dither once it has been converted to 44.1/16bit or is there some reason to
> do both at 44.1/16?
>
> I know dithering is done dead last after the file is 44.1/16 but I thought
> maybe maximising while the bit rate was still high would be good-
>
> Thanks-
>
> Om
>
>

[EnJneer]

Process your audio file in every way you need to while it is in its original
format.

You've got to dither at the same time as the 44/16 files is being created,
not after. why dither something that is already truncated?

--
J
Freelance Engineer Producer
(Delete "no.spam" from my e-mail address to reply direct)


"Om_Audio" > wrote in message
. net...
> Hello-
> I use Waves L2 for my projects- I like the "Hi Res CD Master" preset- but
I
> was wondering- should I maximise while the file is still 88.2/32bit and
then
> dither once it has been converted to 44.1/16bit or is there some reason to
> do both at 44.1/16?
>
> I know dithering is done dead last after the file is 44.1/16 but I thought
> maybe maximising while the bit rate was still high would be good-
>
> Thanks-
>
> Om
>
>

[Sean Conolly]

"EnJneer" > wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
> Process your audio file in every way you need to while it is in its
original
> format.

I just tried it both ways, maximizing before and after downsampling. The
difference is that after the downsampling stage you may find that the
clipped peaks have drifted from the level set during the maximising stage.
Not a problem unless you set that level very high, in which case you could
find spots where it audibly clips.

> You've got to dither at the same time as the 44/16 files is being created,
> not after. why dither something that is already truncated?

Exactly. Dithering after truncation won't improve anything, and probably
will just increase the noise levels.

Sean

[Sean Conolly]

"EnJneer" > wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
> Process your audio file in every way you need to while it is in its
original
> format.

I just tried it both ways, maximizing before and after downsampling. The
difference is that after the downsampling stage you may find that the
clipped peaks have drifted from the level set during the maximising stage.
Not a problem unless you set that level very high, in which case you could
find spots where it audibly clips.

> You've got to dither at the same time as the 44/16 files is being created,
> not after. why dither something that is already truncated?

Exactly. Dithering after truncation won't improve anything, and probably
will just increase the noise levels.

Sean

[Ricky W. Hunt]

Here's a good guide about dithering:
http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/ozoneguide.html. It's not
specific to Ozone.


"Om_Audio" > wrote in message
. net...
> Hello-
> I use Waves L2 for my projects- I like the "Hi Res CD Master" preset- but
I
> was wondering- should I maximise while the file is still 88.2/32bit and
then
> dither once it has been converted to 44.1/16bit or is there some reason to
> do both at 44.1/16?
>
> I know dithering is done dead last after the file is 44.1/16 but I thought
> maybe maximising while the bit rate was still high would be good-
>
> Thanks-
>
> Om
>
>

[Ricky W. Hunt]

Here's a good guide about dithering:
http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/ozoneguide.html. It's not
specific to Ozone.


"Om_Audio" > wrote in message
. net...
> Hello-
> I use Waves L2 for my projects- I like the "Hi Res CD Master" preset- but
I
> was wondering- should I maximise while the file is still 88.2/32bit and
then
> dither once it has been converted to 44.1/16bit or is there some reason to
> do both at 44.1/16?
>
> I know dithering is done dead last after the file is 44.1/16 but I thought
> maybe maximising while the bit rate was still high would be good-
>
> Thanks-
>
> Om
>
>

[Ben Bradley]

In rec.audio.pro, "Ricky W. Hunt" > wrote:

>Here's a good guide about dithering:
>http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/ozoneguide.html. It's not
>specific to Ozone.

I heard about dither on the radio a day or two sgo. Seriously. It
was substantially (over)simplified, but gave (almost?) just enough
info to get the idea across:

http://amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/dither.html

>
>"Om_Audio" > wrote in message
. net...
>> Hello-
>> I use Waves L2 for my projects- I like the "Hi Res CD Master" preset- but
>I
>> was wondering- should I maximise while the file is still 88.2/32bit and
>then
>> dither once it has been converted to 44.1/16bit or is there some reason to
>> do both at 44.1/16?
>>
>> I know dithering is done dead last after the file is 44.1/16 but I thought
>> maybe maximising while the bit rate was still high would be good-
>>
>> Thanks-
>>
>> Om
>>
>>
>
>

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

[Ben Bradley]

In rec.audio.pro, "Ricky W. Hunt" > wrote:

>Here's a good guide about dithering:
>http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/ozoneguide.html. It's not
>specific to Ozone.

I heard about dither on the radio a day or two sgo. Seriously. It
was substantially (over)simplified, but gave (almost?) just enough
info to get the idea across:

http://amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/dither.html

>
>"Om_Audio" > wrote in message
. net...
>> Hello-
>> I use Waves L2 for my projects- I like the "Hi Res CD Master" preset- but
>I
>> was wondering- should I maximise while the file is still 88.2/32bit and
>then
>> dither once it has been converted to 44.1/16bit or is there some reason to
>> do both at 44.1/16?
>>
>> I know dithering is done dead last after the file is 44.1/16 but I thought
>> maybe maximising while the bit rate was still high would be good-
>>
>> Thanks-
>>
>> Om
>>
>>
>
>

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

[Om_Audio]

Thanks all- here is an answer Bob Katz provided which is clear (EnJneer had
it right too- thanks):

I asked:>>>
I am however still confused about *exactly when* to dither. Your

book never actually walks through it- so do I dither after the file

has been converted to 16bit or *while* the file is being converted

to 16bit? (FYI I use Waves L2)



Bob responded:>>>

Hi, Good for you, Cliff. I assume you did look at the practical

examples on pages 58 and 59...



If you're using the Waves L2 plugin, then perhaps you are bouncing

from an EDL to a new file. That new file will be 16 bit and

withoutthe dither in the L2 (which must be the last plug in in the

chain) then you will get the distortion of truncation. So the answer

is "while". You ADD the dithering process WHILE you are going from

one source to another (the bounce to the new file).

Or while you are cutting a new file through the dithering processor.

If this is now exactly how you want to use the L2 as a dithering

processor, then please write back and tell me EXACTLY what you are

playing back, where you are going from, and where you want to go TO!



Hope this helps,



Bob

[Om_Audio]

Thanks all- here is an answer Bob Katz provided which is clear (EnJneer had
it right too- thanks):

I asked:>>>
I am however still confused about *exactly when* to dither. Your

book never actually walks through it- so do I dither after the file

has been converted to 16bit or *while* the file is being converted

to 16bit? (FYI I use Waves L2)



Bob responded:>>>

Hi, Good for you, Cliff. I assume you did look at the practical

examples on pages 58 and 59...



If you're using the Waves L2 plugin, then perhaps you are bouncing

from an EDL to a new file. That new file will be 16 bit and

withoutthe dither in the L2 (which must be the last plug in in the

chain) then you will get the distortion of truncation. So the answer

is "while". You ADD the dithering process WHILE you are going from

one source to another (the bounce to the new file).

Or while you are cutting a new file through the dithering processor.

If this is now exactly how you want to use the L2 as a dithering

processor, then please write back and tell me EXACTLY what you are

playing back, where you are going from, and where you want to go TO!



Hope this helps,



Bob