TV Antenna Connections & Temperature

[ChrisCoaster]

Apologies for posting this here - there doesnt seem to exist a newsgrp
pertaining to TV reception issues.

My setup: Antennas Direct's model# DB-8(UHF) combined via uvsj
combiner with a plain rabbit ears(for high VHF) and rg-6 running to my
D/A converter. I live 35 miles northeast of NYC and generally get
everything I need over air. Antennas are mounted on an 8ft pole in the
yard.

The problem: When the temp drops toward freezing my signal strength
does too and I lose several channels - mainly the high vhf ones.

Q: Is this an effect of temperature dropping?

Thanks for any help you can lend me or any suggestions where else i
can post this inquiry.

-ChrisCoaster

[UnsteadyKen]

ChrisCoaster wrote...

> suggestions where else i
> can post this inquiry.
>
You could try
uk.tech.digital-tv
Many helpful people there:
Including Bill Wright
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/
and Jim Lesurf
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~jcgl/Scots_Guide/MMWave/Jim.html


--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/

[Doug Freyburger]

ChrisCoaster wrote:
>
> My setup: Antennas Direct's model# DB-8(UHF) combined via uvsj
> combiner with a plain rabbit ears(for high VHF) and rg-6 running to my
> D/A converter. I live 35 miles northeast of NYC and generally get
> everything I need over air. Antennas are mounted on an 8ft pole in the
> yard.

We use one of the square box indoor antennas in one of my windows.
We're maybe 25 miles from downtown Chicago.

> The problem: When the temp drops toward freezing my signal strength
> does too and I lose several channels - mainly the high vhf ones.
>
> Q: Is this an effect of temperature dropping?

When my wife was on the phone with the folks at the antenna company
ordering it they reported that temerature drops are correlated with busy
times taking orders.

We started losing them starting at the lower numbers. I thought it was
thicker water vapor in the atmosphere because higher density goes with
lower temperature. Thus an indirect effect of the temperature.

We got a bigger fancier antenna. Will assemble it and start using it
tonight.

[ChrisCoaster]

On Nov 28, 2:17*pm, Doug Freyburger > wrote:
> ChrisCoaster wrote:
>
> > My setup: *Antennas Direct's model# DB-8(UHF) combined via uvsj
> > combiner with a plain rabbit ears(for high VHF) and rg-6 running to my
> > D/A converter. * I live 35 miles northeast of NYC and generally get
> > everything I need over air. Antennas are mounted on an 8ft pole in the
> > yard.
>
> We use one of the square box indoor antennas in one of my windows.
> We're maybe 25 miles from downtown Chicago.
>
> > The problem: When the temp drops toward freezing my signal strength
> > does too and I lose several channels - mainly the high vhf ones.
>
> > Q: Is this an effect of temperature dropping?
>
> When my wife was on the phone with the folks at the antenna company
> ordering it they reported that temerature drops are correlated with busy
> times taking orders.
>
> We started losing them starting at the lower numbers. *I thought it was
> thicker water vapor in the atmosphere because higher density goes with
> lower temperature. *Thus an indirect effect of the temperature.
>
> We got a bigger fancier antenna. *Will assemble it and start using it
> tonight.
_________________
Great minds think alike Doug!

Just installed this http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3928468
and am already seeing steady 100s across the band on the signal
strength of my existing http://www.channelmaster.com/CM_7000_Digital_Converter_Box_Channel_Master_CM_70 00_s/121.htm
! (I'm still using analog tube tvs with flat fronts and under 10
years old. I calibrated the settings with DVD and the color and dark
detail is outstanding!)

-CC

[Dave C]

"ChrisCoaster" > wrote in message
...
> Apologies for posting this here - there doesnt seem to exist a newsgrp
> pertaining to TV reception issues.
>
> My setup: Antennas Direct's model# DB-8(UHF) combined via uvsj
> combiner with a plain rabbit ears(for high VHF) and rg-6 running to my
> D/A converter. I live 35 miles northeast of NYC and generally get
> everything I need over air. Antennas are mounted on an 8ft pole in the
> yard.
>
> The problem: When the temp drops toward freezing my signal strength
> does too and I lose several channels - mainly the high vhf ones.
>
> Q: Is this an effect of temperature dropping?
>
> Thanks for any help you can lend me or any suggestions where else i
> can post this inquiry.
>
> -ChrisCoaster

Hi Chris,
First thoughts are you could have a connector issue
associated with your VHF antenna, or some other connection issue to the
actual elements that largely disconnects when things get cold. Second
thought is that 35 miles needs line of sight - your reported antenna height
may be low enough to be occluded by earth curvature or obstructed by some
near object.....refractive index will change with atmospheric conditions and
effectively drop your received signal strength.

Good Luck

Dave - no where near NY :)


--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

[Doug Freyburger]

ChrisCoaster wrote:
> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
>> We got a bigger fancier antenna. *Will assemble it and start using it
>> tonight.
>
> Just installed this http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3928468
> and am already seeing steady 100s across the band on the signal

We went with a "ClearStream 2 Complete" that has plastic wings that
almost look like toy propellers as one of its 3 types of receiving wave
guides. Right now it's just sitting on a bench indoors facing
diagonally out one of our windows towards most of the transmitters in
downtown Chicago. I'm not even sure I'll bother mounting it outdoors as
it works as it is sitting in a corner of the living room.

> strength of my existing http://www.channelmaster.com/CM_7000_Digital_Converter_Box_Channel_Master_CM_70 00_s/121.htm
> ! (I'm still using analog tube tvs with flat fronts and under 10
> years old. I calibrated the settings with DVD and the color and dark
> detail is outstanding!)

One of our boxes is a Tivo Series 3 with a digital ready dual receiver.
I just plugged that leg directly into it. It's receiving and recording
just fine.

The other of our boxes is an older Tivo Series 2 with an analog
receiver and a DVD reader/writer. No way I'm giving up a box with a DVD
reader/writer. We went to Best Buy and got whatever brand of converter
box they happened to have. I tried a few brands on the menu list and
found that Apex worked. So far I haven't even told it to scan for
channels again. Among the ones that might be added is another cluster
of PBS and we already have one cluster of PBS channels. No biggie
having yet another PBS.

[ChrisCoaster]

On Nov 29, 11:51*am, Doug Freyburger > wrote:
> ChrisCoaster wrote:
> > Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
> >> We got a bigger fancier antenna. Will assemble it and start using it
> >> tonight.
>
> > Just installed this *http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3928468
> > and am already seeing steady 100s across the band on the signal
>
> We went with a "ClearStream 2 Complete" that has plastic wings that
> almost look like toy propellers as one of its 3 types of receiving wave
> guides. *Right now it's just sitting on a bench indoors facing
> diagonally out one of our windows towards most of the transmitters in
> downtown Chicago. *I'm not even sure I'll bother mounting it outdoors as
> it works as it is sitting in a corner of the living room.
====================
Ohhh Doug I wish you had informed me of that beforehand!

I purchased that in late '09 when I lived in an apartment. Fine
reception, but as you'll see: http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/C2-Clearstream-DTV-antenna.html
This is only a UHF(ch. 14 & up) pickup!
Check on TVFool to see if there are any high-VHF channels still in
your area(from 7 up to 13) as you will probably need to combine the C2
with a rabbit ears or other VHF dipole type pickup to get them.

Unfortunately in the first 6-12 months since the digital
transition(late 2009-early 2010) a lot of antenna hawkers sold a lot
of limited-band antennas as "HDTV antennas" or "Digital TV antenna!!"
and most folks bought 'em,(like moi!) not understanding exactly what
portions of the VHF>UHF band broadcast TV was going to occupy after
the transition.

Do you live in a condo/apartment? If so keep the C2 and just purchase
this: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=UVSJ&d=Pico-Macom-UVSJ-UHF-VHF-Band-Separator%2FCombiner-for-Antenna-(UVSJ),
connect the C2 where it says UHF, the dipole to VHF, and run RG6 to
your digital converter box or directly to your HDTV(whichever is your
case).

If you live in a house, or townhome where a small aerial is permitted,
sprint for what I mentioned I purchased or a slightly smaller Winegard
that looks sort of like it. One of those "jetplane shaped" aerials
will handle all your TV needs in one package.

=========================
> > strength of my existinghttp://www.channelmaster.com/CM_7000_Digital_Converter_Box_Channel_Ma...
> > ! * (I'm still using analog tube tvs with flat fronts and under 10
> > years old. I calibrated the settings with DVD and the color and dark
> > detail is outstanding!)
>
> One of our boxes is a Tivo Series 3 with a digital ready dual receiver.
> I just plugged that leg directly into it. It's receiving and recording
> just fine.
>
> The other of our boxes is an older Tivo Series 2 with an analog
> receiver and a DVD reader/writer. *No way I'm giving up a box with a DVD
> reader/writer. *We went to Best Buy and got whatever brand of converter
> box they happened to have. I tried a few brands on the menu list and
> found that Apex worked. So far I haven't even told it to scan for
> channels again. Among the ones that might be added is another cluster
> of PBS and we already have one cluster of PBS channels. No biggie
> having yet another PBS.
==================
Good luck,

-ChrisCoaster

[Doug Freyburger]

ChrisCoaster wrote:
> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
>> We went with a "ClearStream 2 Complete" that has plastic wings that
>> almost look like toy propellers as one of its 3 types of receiving wave
>> guides. *Right now it's just sitting on a bench indoors facing
>> diagonally out one of our windows towards most of the transmitters in
>> downtown Chicago. *I'm not even sure I'll bother mounting it outdoors as
>> it works as it is sitting in a corner of the living room.
>
> I purchased that in late '09 when I lived in an apartment. Fine
> reception, but as you'll see:
> http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/C2-Clearstream-DTV-antenna.html
> This is only a UHF(ch. 14 & up) pickup!
> Check on TVFool to see if there are any high-VHF channels still in
> your area(from 7 up to 13) as you will probably need to combine the C2
> with a rabbit ears or other VHF dipole type pickup to get them.

I see. We got a ClearStrem 2 Complete that adds a dipole to that.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/ClearStream-C2-VHF-Combo.html

It's supposed to work great for all channels. I had to move it around a
bit to get a spot with minimum interference but now it works. I put it
on a box so it points above the wrought iron railing around the deck.

How much better it is than the square one in the window remains to be
seen as the weather gets worse. At least we now get the channels in the
20 series that come from the other good PBS affiliate on the new
antenna. One more PBS series isn't a large deal but they are the
slightly better one for what shows they carry. It's already been a win.

> Unfortunately in the first 6-12 months since the digital
> transition(late 2009-early 2010) a lot of antenna hawkers sold a lot
> of limited-band antennas as "HDTV antennas" or "Digital TV antenna!!"
> and most folks bought 'em,(like moi!) not understanding exactly what
> portions of the VHF>UHF band broadcast TV was going to occupy after
> the transition.
>
> Do you live in a condo/apartment? If so keep the C2 and just purchase
> this: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=UVSJ&d=Pico-Macom-UVSJ-UHF-VHF-Band-Separator%2FCombiner-for-Antenna-(UVSJ),
> connect the C2 where it says UHF, the dipole to VHF, and run RG6 to
> your digital converter box or directly to your HDTV(whichever is your
> case).

I'll note that if I decide to add a bigger one for the low frequencies.
Thanks. Our worst case is 2-1 which carries NCIS and other shows we
like. It's lower power than some of the other stations downtown. I
could use that to add a bigger dipole to the mix.

> If you live in a house, or townhome where a small aerial is permitted,
> sprint for what I mentioned I purchased or a slightly smaller Winegard
> that looks sort of like it. One of those "jetplane shaped" aerials
> will handle all your TV needs in one package.

We selected an apartment facing downtown. Actually about 45 degrees.
The previous place we faced away from downtown and that building had a
reinforced steel/concrete core that shielded the signal. We picked this
apartment in the building facing away from the satelites so we could
face the transmitters. A hundred dollars per month difference.

I think I'll hire someone from the maintenance crew to pierce the wall
so I can switch it from inside to outside. Bolt it to the wrought iron
railing and there will be the minimum interference.

[ChrisCoaster]

On Nov 30, 1:15*pm, Doug Freyburger > wrote:
> ChrisCoaster wrote:
> > Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
> >> We went with a "ClearStream 2 Complete" that has plastic wings that
> >> almost look like toy propellers as one of its 3 types of receiving wave
> >> guides. Right now it's just sitting on a bench indoors facing
> >> diagonally out one of our windows towards most of the transmitters in
> >> downtown Chicago. I'm not even sure I'll bother mounting it outdoors as
> >> it works as it is sitting in a corner of the living room.
>
> > I purchased that in late '09 when I lived in an apartment. *Fine
> > reception, but as you'll see:
> >http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/C2-Clearstream-DTV-antenna.html
> > This is only a UHF(ch. 14 & up) pickup!
> > Check on TVFool to see if there are any high-VHF channels still in
> > your area(from 7 up to 13) as you will probably need to combine the C2
> > with a rabbit ears or other VHF dipole type pickup to get them.
>
> I see. *We got a ClearStrem 2 Complete that adds a dipole to that.
>
> http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/ClearStream-C2-VHF-Combo.html
>
> It's supposed to work great for all channels. *I had to move it around a
> bit to get a spot with minimum interference but now it works. *I put it
> on a box so it points above the wrought iron railing around the deck.
>
> How much better it is than the square one in the window remains to be
> seen as the weather gets worse. *At least we now get the channels in the
> 20 series that come from the other good PBS affiliate on the new
> antenna. *One more PBS series isn't a large deal but they are the
> slightly better one for what shows they carry. *It's already been a win..
>
> > Unfortunately in the first 6-12 months since the digital
> > transition(late 2009-early 2010) a lot of antenna hawkers sold a lot
> > of limited-band antennas as "HDTV antennas" or "Digital TV antenna!!"
> > and most folks bought 'em,(like moi!) not understanding exactly what
> > portions of the VHF>UHF band broadcast TV was going to occupy after
> > the transition.
>
> > Do you live in a condo/apartment? *If so keep the C2 and just purchase
> > this: *http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=UVSJ&d=Pico-Macom-UVSJ-UHF-VHF...),
> > connect the C2 where it says UHF, the dipole to VHF, and run RG6 to
> > your digital converter box or directly to your HDTV(whichever is your
> > case).
>
> I'll note that if I decide to add a bigger one for the low frequencies.
> Thanks. *Our worst case is 2-1 which carries NCIS and other shows we
> like. *It's lower power than some of the other stations downtown. *I
> could use that to add a bigger dipole to the mix.
>
> > If you live in a house, or townhome where a small aerial is permitted,
> > sprint for what I mentioned I purchased or a slightly smaller Winegard
> > that looks sort of like it. *One of those "jetplane shaped" aerials
> > will handle all your TV needs in one package.
>
> We selected an apartment facing downtown. *Actually about 45 degrees.
> The previous place we faced away from downtown and that building had a
> reinforced steel/concrete core that shielded the signal. *We picked this
> apartment in the building facing away from the satelites so we could
> face the transmitters. *A hundred dollars per month difference.
>
> I think I'll hire someone from the maintenance crew to pierce the wall
> so I can switch it from inside to outside. *Bolt it to the wrought iron
> railing and there will be the minimum interference.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
_____________________________

You will get better results outside.
As for your 2-1 issues, I tried looking up what the "real" channel is
for that "virtual" designation but could not find such information.
IOW here in NY channel 7's virtual and real assignment are the same -
7(Hi-VHF). WNBC 4 is "real" channel 28(UHF) For some reason I
thought digital channel 2 was higher up, somehwere in the UHF band.

Your environmental factors may include reflections off of the many
highrises in the vicinity of where your antenna is aimed. Just a
thought. You might want to aim your antenna to either side of
downtown; what you pick up and what signal strength you may realize
for certain channels may surprise you! Such is off-the-air life in
the Digital 21st century.

:)

-CC

[Doug Freyburger]

Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> I see. We got a ClearStrem 2 Complete that adds a dipole to that.
>
> http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/ClearStream-C2-VHF-Combo.html
>
> It's supposed to work great for all channels. I had to move it around a
> bit to get a spot with minimum interference but now it works. I put it
> on a box so it points above the wrought iron railing around the deck.
>
> How much better it is than the square one in the window remains to be
> seen as the weather gets worse. At least we now get the channels in the
> 20 series that come from the other good PBS affiliate on the new
> antenna. One more PBS series isn't a large deal but they are the
> slightly better one for what shows they carry. It's already been a win.

Report from my wife is that during the day the reception of channels 2,
5 and 7 suck, just not as bad as with the square antenna. Her favorite
shows are on those channels during the day and several of our
favorites like NCIS are on them at night.

I'll look at a bigger VHF type antenna to merge with the propeller
looking part of the Clear Stream. The added dipole that's the
difference between a regular ClearStream 2 and a ClearStream 2 Complete
did not cut it.

[ChrisCoaster]

On Nov 30, 8:00*pm, Doug Freyburger > wrote:

>
> Report from my wife is that during the day the reception of channels 2,
> 5 and 7 suck, just not as bad as with the square antenna. *Her favorite
> shows are on those channels during the day and several of our
> favorites like NCIS are on them at night.
>
> I'll look at a bigger VHF type antenna to merge with the propeller
> looking part of the Clear Stream. *The added dipole that's the
> difference between a regular ClearStream 2 and a ClearStream 2 Complete
> did not cut it.
_______________
Report from the wife is just what I expected. That CS2 was a waste of
your money(and mine before I took a sledgehammer to it and carted it
out to the apartment dumpster in 47 pieces. LMFAO!!!!

Wanna know what I used in conjunction with it?? A simple piece'a sh..
just like this:
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/51098/51098,1194445943,6/stock-photo-rabbit-ears-set-top-antenna-for-tv-6753079.jpg

If it solved my high-VHF problems from 35 miles away behind a hill it
should have no problem helping you out 25-30 miles away clear shot to
downtown. LOL!

-CC

[ChrisCoaster]

On Nov 30, 10:23*pm, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
> On Nov 30, 8:00*pm, Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Report from my wife is that during the day the reception of channels 2,
> > 5 and 7 suck, just not as bad as with the square antenna. *Her favorite
> > shows are on those channels during the day and several of our
> > favorites like NCIS are on them at night.
>
> > I'll look at a bigger VHF type antenna to merge with the propeller
> > looking part of the Clear Stream. *The added dipole that's the
> > difference between a regular ClearStream 2 and a ClearStream 2 Complete
> > did not cut it.
>
> _______________
> Report from the wife is just what I expected. *That CS2 was a waste of
> your money(and mine before I took a sledgehammer to it and carted it
> out to the apartment dumpster in 47 pieces. *LMFAO!!!!
>
> Wanna know what I used in conjunction with it?? *A simple piece'a sh..
> just like this:http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/51098/51098,11944...
>
> If it solved my high-VHF problems from 35 miles away behind a hill it
> should have no problem helping you out 25-30 miles away clear shot to
> downtown. LOL!
>
> -CC
______________________
Just MAKE SURE!! the two masts are laying flat outward, like arms on
the cross, not the V-shape shown in the picture. :)

-CC