Left or Right?

[Tmuska]

When recording (usually solo classical guitar) I've got the mics in an "X-Y"
configuration. Now what I'm wondering is 1. Should the mic actually on the
right side be considered "R" since it's really picking up more left, etc?
2. Does it matter, or is there a general consensus on which channel should be
chosen as Track 1 and Track 2 (I usually assign Track 1 to L, Track 2 to R.)
Thanks,
Terry

[Ethan Winer]

Terry,

For a solo classical guitar it probably doesn't really matter. But when you
use X/Y to record, say, an orchestra, the mike on the left that POINTS to
the right would be the right channel.

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

Terry,

For a solo classical guitar it probably doesn't really matter. But when you
use X/Y to record, say, an orchestra, the mike on the left that POINTS to
the right would be the right channel.

--Ethan

[James Boyk]

Ethan Winer wrote: > For a solo classical guitar it probably
doesn't really matter.


tsiratiug-non a skaeps erehT.


James Boyk

[James Boyk]

Ethan Winer wrote: > For a solo classical guitar it probably
doesn't really matter.


tsiratiug-non a skaeps erehT.


James Boyk

[LeBaron & Alrich]

James Boyk wrote:

> Ethan Winer wrote: > For a solo classical guitar it probably
> doesn't really matter.

> tsiratiug-non a skaeps erehT.

With coincident micing, up is still up and down is still down and a
guitar doesn't offer the left-right spread that a piano's string
arrangement gives. Just a so-called thought.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

James Boyk wrote:

> Ethan Winer wrote: > For a solo classical guitar it probably
> doesn't really matter.

> tsiratiug-non a skaeps erehT.

With coincident micing, up is still up and down is still down and a
guitar doesn't offer the left-right spread that a piano's string
arrangement gives. Just a so-called thought.

--
ha

[Roger W. Norman]

A) Ethan plays cello, and
B) Ethan plays one hell of a guitar. A Tele to be exact.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"James Boyk" > wrote in message
...
> Ethan Winer wrote: > For a solo classical guitar it probably
> doesn't really matter.
>
>
> tsiratiug-non a skaeps erehT.
>
>
> James Boyk
>
>

[Roger W. Norman]

A) Ethan plays cello, and
B) Ethan plays one hell of a guitar. A Tele to be exact.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"James Boyk" > wrote in message
...
> Ethan Winer wrote: > For a solo classical guitar it probably
> doesn't really matter.
>
>
> tsiratiug-non a skaeps erehT.
>
>
> James Boyk
>
>

[James Boyk]

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:
> With coincident micing, up is still up and down is still down and a
> guitar doesn't offer the left-right spread that a piano's string
> arrangement gives. Just a so-called thought.


But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the wzhip,
wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the audience right.
Frankly, I can't imagine a reversed presentation NOT bothering listeners, even
if they're not consciously aware of it. It would imply that the guitarist is
facing away from listeners and that the body of instrument and player have
magically become transparent to sound.


James Boyk

[James Boyk]

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:
> With coincident micing, up is still up and down is still down and a
> guitar doesn't offer the left-right spread that a piano's string
> arrangement gives. Just a so-called thought.


But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the wzhip,
wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the audience right.
Frankly, I can't imagine a reversed presentation NOT bothering listeners, even
if they're not consciously aware of it. It would imply that the guitarist is
facing away from listeners and that the body of instrument and player have
magically become transparent to sound.


James Boyk

[Michael R. Kesti]

James Boyk wrote:

>LeBaron & Alrich wrote:
>> With coincident micing, up is still up and down is still down and a
>> guitar doesn't offer the left-right spread that a piano's string
>> arrangement gives. Just a so-called thought.
>
>But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the wzhip,
>wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the audience right.
>Frankly, I can't imagine a reversed presentation NOT bothering listeners, even
>if they're not consciously aware of it. It would imply that the guitarist is
>facing away from listeners and that the body of instrument and player have
>magically become transparent to sound.

Have you never heard a leftie play guitar?

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
| - The Who, Bargain

[Michael R. Kesti]

James Boyk wrote:

>LeBaron & Alrich wrote:
>> With coincident micing, up is still up and down is still down and a
>> guitar doesn't offer the left-right spread that a piano's string
>> arrangement gives. Just a so-called thought.
>
>But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the wzhip,
>wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the audience right.
>Frankly, I can't imagine a reversed presentation NOT bothering listeners, even
>if they're not consciously aware of it. It would imply that the guitarist is
>facing away from listeners and that the body of instrument and player have
>magically become transparent to sound.

Have you never heard a leftie play guitar?

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
| - The Who, Bargain

[James Boyk]

Michael R. Kesti wrote: > Have you never heard a leftie play guitar?


Yes, but her politics didn't affect which side was which.


James Boyk

[James Boyk]

Michael R. Kesti wrote: > Have you never heard a leftie play guitar?


Yes, but her politics didn't affect which side was which.


James Boyk

[LeBaron & Alrich]

James Boyk wrote:

> LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

> > With coincident micing, up is still up and down is still down and a
> > guitar doesn't offer the left-right spread that a piano's string
> > arrangement gives. Just a so-called thought.

> But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the wzhip,
> wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the audience right.
> Frankly, I can't imagine a reversed presentation NOT bothering listeners, even
> if they're not consciously aware of it. It would imply that the guitarist is
> facing away from listeners and that the body of instrument and player have
> magically become transparent to sound.

I play guitars and listen to them very often. Unless one puts one's face
into the soundhole, the realtive positioning of those sounds will not be
obviously left or right at all. Once you're out from the instrument a
rational distance those are melded into a whole.

That said, when I use XY micing on a guitar, I do maintain listener
perspective, as I do with everything else I mic in stereo. Plenty of
folks actually prefer player's perspective. In general, I prefer some
distance from the guitar, and it really makes little difference, in any,
in my own experience.

Close-up XY panned fully L & R is something I find very artificial
sounding, same as I do with widely panned pianos.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

James Boyk wrote:

> LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

> > With coincident micing, up is still up and down is still down and a
> > guitar doesn't offer the left-right spread that a piano's string
> > arrangement gives. Just a so-called thought.

> But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the wzhip,
> wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the audience right.
> Frankly, I can't imagine a reversed presentation NOT bothering listeners, even
> if they're not consciously aware of it. It would imply that the guitarist is
> facing away from listeners and that the body of instrument and player have
> magically become transparent to sound.

I play guitars and listen to them very often. Unless one puts one's face
into the soundhole, the realtive positioning of those sounds will not be
obviously left or right at all. Once you're out from the instrument a
rational distance those are melded into a whole.

That said, when I use XY micing on a guitar, I do maintain listener
perspective, as I do with everything else I mic in stereo. Plenty of
folks actually prefer player's perspective. In general, I prefer some
distance from the guitar, and it really makes little difference, in any,
in my own experience.

Close-up XY panned fully L & R is something I find very artificial
sounding, same as I do with widely panned pianos.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Michael R. Kesti wrote:

> James Boyk wrote:

> >LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

> >> With coincident micing, up is still up and down is still down and a
> >> guitar doesn't offer the left-right spread that a piano's string
> >> arrangement gives. Just a so-called thought.

> >But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the
> >wzhip, wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the
> >audience right. Frankly, I can't imagine a reversed presentation NOT
> >bothering listeners, even if they're not consciously aware of it. It
> >would imply that the guitarist is facing away from listeners and that the
> >body of instrument and player have magically become transparent to sound.

> Have you never heard a leftie play guitar?

And known that from the recording? <g>

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Michael R. Kesti wrote:

> James Boyk wrote:

> >LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

> >> With coincident micing, up is still up and down is still down and a
> >> guitar doesn't offer the left-right spread that a piano's string
> >> arrangement gives. Just a so-called thought.

> >But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the
> >wzhip, wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the
> >audience right. Frankly, I can't imagine a reversed presentation NOT
> >bothering listeners, even if they're not consciously aware of it. It
> >would imply that the guitarist is facing away from listeners and that the
> >body of instrument and player have magically become transparent to sound.

> Have you never heard a leftie play guitar?

And known that from the recording? <g>

--
ha

[Michael R. Kesti]

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

>> Have you never heard a leftie play guitar?
>
>And known that from the recording? <g>

I was going to get to that next, except that James chose to answer my
question stupidly.

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
| - The Who, Bargain

[Michael R. Kesti]

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

>> Have you never heard a leftie play guitar?
>
>And known that from the recording? <g>

I was going to get to that next, except that James chose to answer my
question stupidly.

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
| - The Who, Bargain

[Ethan Winer]

James,

> But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the
wzhip, wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the
audience right. <

Okay, you got me there. BTW I do play the guitar. It was/still is my main
instrument before I started the cello 11 years ago.

When I record myself or others playing the cello, which I do often, I pay no
attention to stereo left/right. :->)

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

James,

> But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the
wzhip, wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the
audience right. <

Okay, you got me there. BTW I do play the guitar. It was/still is my main
instrument before I started the cello 11 years ago.

When I record myself or others playing the cello, which I do often, I pay no
attention to stereo left/right. :->)

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

Roger,

> B) Ethan plays one hell of a guitar. A Tele to be exact. <

Thanks.

When I record my Telecaster through my Fender amp with one mike, should I be
concerned about the stereo image? Should I be concerned about my personal
image?

:->)

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

Roger,

> B) Ethan plays one hell of a guitar. A Tele to be exact. <

Thanks.

When I record my Telecaster through my Fender amp with one mike, should I be
concerned about the stereo image? Should I be concerned about my personal
image?

:->)

--Ethan

[LeBaron & Alrich]

"Ethan Winer" wrote:

> James,

> > But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the
> wzhip, wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the
> audience right. <

> Okay, you got me there. BTW I do play the guitar. It was/still is my main
> instrument before I started the cello 11 years ago.

> When I record myself or others playing the cello, which I do often, I pay no
> attention to stereo left/right. :->)

But then how can people reliably discern which way the bow is moving?
<g>

IME, up close I can hear the L & R from a guitar; not far away, though,
I cannot _when I am not looking at the player_. If I can see the player
my ears can imagine all kinds of things.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

"Ethan Winer" wrote:

> James,

> > But the noise of the hand playing is still on audience left, and the
> wzhip, wzhoop of the hand moving to stop the strings is still on the
> audience right. <

> Okay, you got me there. BTW I do play the guitar. It was/still is my main
> instrument before I started the cello 11 years ago.

> When I record myself or others playing the cello, which I do often, I pay no
> attention to stereo left/right. :->)

But then how can people reliably discern which way the bow is moving?
<g>

IME, up close I can hear the L & R from a guitar; not far away, though,
I cannot _when I am not looking at the player_. If I can see the player
my ears can imagine all kinds of things.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

"Ethan Winer" wrote:

> > B) Ethan plays one hell of a guitar. A Tele to be exact. <

> Thanks.

> When I record my Telecaster through my Fender amp with one mike, should I be
> concerned about the stereo image? Should I be concerned about my personal
> image?

> :->)

Yes, you should. Use either XY or ORTF, but turn the array vertically
and then pan fully. You'll sound much taller.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

"Ethan Winer" wrote:

> > B) Ethan plays one hell of a guitar. A Tele to be exact. <

> Thanks.

> When I record my Telecaster through my Fender amp with one mike, should I be
> concerned about the stereo image? Should I be concerned about my personal
> image?

> :->)

Yes, you should. Use either XY or ORTF, but turn the array vertically
and then pan fully. You'll sound much taller.

--
ha

[James Boyk]

Ethan Winer wrote:
> When I record myself or others playing the cello, which I do often, I pay no
> attention to stereo left/right. :->)


I confess I don't understand why not. The cello is not symmetrical. Why give up
a *possible* virtue in the recording which would cost *zero* to achieve? Better
sound quality, lower noise floor--these cost money or time. But correct
orientation of left and right---assuming you're already miking in a way that
preserves some kind of legit image---costs approx. zero: just the moment to say
"left" and "right" while standing on each side of the array; and the additional
moment to reverse the connections if necessary.

It might *possibly* help. Why not do it?


James Boyk

[James Boyk]

Ethan Winer wrote:
> When I record myself or others playing the cello, which I do often, I pay no
> attention to stereo left/right. :->)


I confess I don't understand why not. The cello is not symmetrical. Why give up
a *possible* virtue in the recording which would cost *zero* to achieve? Better
sound quality, lower noise floor--these cost money or time. But correct
orientation of left and right---assuming you're already miking in a way that
preserves some kind of legit image---costs approx. zero: just the moment to say
"left" and "right" while standing on each side of the array; and the additional
moment to reverse the connections if necessary.

It might *possibly* help. Why not do it?


James Boyk

[Roger W. Norman]

"Ethan Winer" <ethan at ethanwiner dot com> wrote in message
...
> Roger,
>
> Thanks.
>
> When I record my Telecaster through my Fender amp with one mike, should I
be
> concerned about the stereo image? Should I be concerned about my personal
> image?
>
> :->)
>
> --Ethan


Only if you play guitar by ear! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




>
>

[Ethan Winer]

James,

> It might *possibly* help. Why not do it? <

Sheer laziness. But I tell you what: Lately I've been leaving my mike stands
in place in the studio, because I'm too lazy to even move them five feet to
the side of the room out of the way. (Though I do keep plastic bags over the
mikes when I'm not recording. That actually matters!) As soon as I hit Send
on this I'll follow the wires and make sure the mike pointing at the left
side goes to the left input channel.

Are you happy now? :->)

--Ethan

[James Boyk]

Ethan Winer wrote:
> ...As soon as I hit Send on this I'll follow the wires and make sure the mike pointing at the left
> side goes to the left input channel.
>
> Are you happy now? :->)


Truly happy. My life has been a miserable one, full of crossed channels, crossed
wires and cross women. But now? Now, I know that these things can be Fixed, and
by the Power of Discussion. Yes, my faith in the Newsgroup is restored.

You've made my day.


James Boyk

[MikeK]

"Ethan Winer" <ethan at ethanwiner dot com> wrote in message
...
> Roger,
>
> > B) Ethan plays one hell of a guitar. A Tele to be exact. <
>
> Thanks.
>
> When I record my Telecaster through my Fender amp with one mike, should I
be
> concerned about the stereo image? Should I be concerned about my personal
> image?
>

You mean you don't shove a second mic into the back of the amp?

And while you're at it, don't you need one across the room, and another down
the hall?<g>

[MikeK]

"Ethan Winer" <ethan at ethanwiner dot com> wrote in message
...
> Roger,
>
> > B) Ethan plays one hell of a guitar. A Tele to be exact. <
>
> Thanks.
>
> When I record my Telecaster through my Fender amp with one mike, should I
be
> concerned about the stereo image? Should I be concerned about my personal
> image?
>

You mean you don't shove a second mic into the back of the amp?

And while you're at it, don't you need one across the room, and another down
the hall?<g>

[Ethan Winer]

James,

> You've made my day.

Then this will make your day even more: I checked my mikes and - the law of
averages is at work - they were already correct.

:->)

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

James,

> You've made my day.

Then this will make your day even more: I checked my mikes and - the law of
averages is at work - they were already correct.

:->)

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

James,

> You've made my day.

Then this will make your day even more: I checked my mikes and - the law of
averages is at work - they were already correct.

:->)

--Ethan

[LeBaron & Alrich]

"Ethan Winer" wrote:

> > You've made my day.

> Then this will make your day even more: I checked my mikes and - the law of
> averages is at work - they were already correct.

> :->)

Well, then, that's why you can't tell the difference! <g>

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

"Ethan Winer" wrote:

> > You've made my day.

> Then this will make your day even more: I checked my mikes and - the law of
> averages is at work - they were already correct.

> :->)

Well, then, that's why you can't tell the difference! <g>

--
ha

[ScotFraser]

<< But correct
orientation of left and right---assuming you're already miking in a way that
preserves some kind of legit image---costs approx. zero: just the moment to say

"left" and "right" while standing on each side of the array; and the additional

moment to reverse the connections if necessary. >>

Even this much trouble is unnecessary if one uses color coded cables. This
saves at least a half dozen neurons from firing to remember connector panel
numbers.


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< But correct
orientation of left and right---assuming you're already miking in a way that
preserves some kind of legit image---costs approx. zero: just the moment to say

"left" and "right" while standing on each side of the array; and the additional

moment to reverse the connections if necessary. >>

Even this much trouble is unnecessary if one uses color coded cables. This
saves at least a half dozen neurons from firing to remember connector panel
numbers.


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< Ethan plays one hell of a guitar. A Tele to be exact. >>

A Tele IS a hell of a guitar. Is he any good?
<g>


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< Ethan plays one hell of a guitar. A Tele to be exact. >>

A Tele IS a hell of a guitar. Is he any good?
<g>


Scott Fraser

[James Boyk]

That's good. Half a dozen is all I have left.


James Boyk

[James Boyk]

That's good. Half a dozen is all I have left.


James Boyk

[LeBaron & Alrich]

James Boyk wrote:

> That's good. Half a dozen is all I have left.

And on the right? Do you mic that in mono?

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

James Boyk wrote:

> That's good. Half a dozen is all I have left.

And on the right? Do you mic that in mono?

--
ha