Standalone recoder or DAW for studio and live?

[Christoph Haselau]

Hi!
I'm Sound tech in a semi-pro Rockband. We are looking for a device that
enables us to record 24 tracks from the 3 ADAT-outs of our mixing-desk.
We want to use it both live on stage (~3x/year) and in our "studio"
(rehearsal-room(?) acoustically tuned) (1 CD/year).
Now we can't decide wether to buy an Alesis HD-24 or a PC with RME HDSP9652
and Cubase SL.
So here are my basic questions:
1. How safe is it to record with a PC on stage (with DAT backup)?
2. I know how to use a sequencer, but I have never worked (besides hitting
'record'+'play') with an ADAT. I know engineers have done this for decades,
but isn't it very uncomfortable to use a tape machine for editing?
I also don't like the idea of not having ghost-tracks(for the 6543765st
guitar solo;-)).
3. what do you think we should buy? For financial reasons we can only buy
one of them for about the next 3-4 years.

TIA

Christoph Haselau

[David Morley]

In article >,
Christoph Haselau > wrote:

> Hi!
> I'm Sound tech in a semi-pro Rockband. We are looking for a device that
> enables us to record 24 tracks from the 3 ADAT-outs of our mixing-desk.
> We want to use it both live on stage (~3x/year) and in our "studio"
> (rehearsal-room(?) acoustically tuned) (1 CD/year).
> Now we can't decide wether to buy an Alesis HD-24 or a PC with RME HDSP9652
> and Cubase SL.
> So here are my basic questions:
> 1. How safe is it to record with a PC on stage (with DAT backup)?
> 2. I know how to use a sequencer, but I have never worked (besides hitting
> 'record'+'play') with an ADAT. I know engineers have done this for decades,
> but isn't it very uncomfortable to use a tape machine for editing?
> I also don't like the idea of not having ghost-tracks(for the 6543765st
> guitar solo;-)).
> 3. what do you think we should buy? For financial reasons we can only buy
> one of them for about the next 3-4 years.
>
> TIA
>
> Christoph Haselau
>

Have you considered the Fostex D2424lv?
These have 24 balanced I/O and 3 sets of ADAT ports. Perfect for your
application and they seem to be around $1250. (I?m in Germany and have
ordered one from the states by the way)
It has ghost tracks and people who own them seem to like them.
David

[David Morley]

In article >,
Christoph Haselau > wrote:

> Hi!
> I'm Sound tech in a semi-pro Rockband. We are looking for a device that
> enables us to record 24 tracks from the 3 ADAT-outs of our mixing-desk.
> We want to use it both live on stage (~3x/year) and in our "studio"
> (rehearsal-room(?) acoustically tuned) (1 CD/year).
> Now we can't decide wether to buy an Alesis HD-24 or a PC with RME HDSP9652
> and Cubase SL.
> So here are my basic questions:
> 1. How safe is it to record with a PC on stage (with DAT backup)?
> 2. I know how to use a sequencer, but I have never worked (besides hitting
> 'record'+'play') with an ADAT. I know engineers have done this for decades,
> but isn't it very uncomfortable to use a tape machine for editing?
> I also don't like the idea of not having ghost-tracks(for the 6543765st
> guitar solo;-)).
> 3. what do you think we should buy? For financial reasons we can only buy
> one of them for about the next 3-4 years.
>
> TIA
>
> Christoph Haselau
>

Have you considered the Fostex D2424lv?
These have 24 balanced I/O and 3 sets of ADAT ports. Perfect for your
application and they seem to be around $1250. (I?m in Germany and have
ordered one from the states by the way)
It has ghost tracks and people who own them seem to like them.
David

[Christoph Haselau]

David Morley wrote:

> Have you considered the Fostex D2424lv?
> These have 24 balanced I/O and 3 sets of ADAT ports. Perfect for your
> application and they seem to be around $1250. (I?m in Germany and have
> ordered one from the states by the way)
> It has ghost tracks and people who own them seem to like them.
> David

Hi!
I've seen it here in germany for 2099 Euro (Thomann). Was a bit over our
budget. Where did you buy it? I'm a bit worried about warranty (>=24month
here, in USA i heard something like 90 days).
Do you know how long the remote control can be? I like it very much.
BTW: I don't need analog I/O, want to use the board preamps and a/d.

Christoph

[Christoph Haselau]

David Morley wrote:

> Have you considered the Fostex D2424lv?
> These have 24 balanced I/O and 3 sets of ADAT ports. Perfect for your
> application and they seem to be around $1250. (I?m in Germany and have
> ordered one from the states by the way)
> It has ghost tracks and people who own them seem to like them.
> David

Hi!
I've seen it here in germany for 2099 Euro (Thomann). Was a bit over our
budget. Where did you buy it? I'm a bit worried about warranty (>=24month
here, in USA i heard something like 90 days).
Do you know how long the remote control can be? I like it very much.
BTW: I don't need analog I/O, want to use the board preamps and a/d.

Christoph

[Christoph Haselau]

Hi!
David Morley wrote:

> I think it can be very long (the remote) 10 meters or more.
> I?m not too worried about guarantee at the saving I made ($1000) but I
> assume it is a year?
> I think we got them (we ordered 3) from www.samedaymusic.com but had to
> ship to a friend in the states as they don?t ship abroad.

Thank you for the info. I don't think this is an option for us as we don't
know someone there. I'll try to convince them to buy it here.

Christoph

[Christoph Haselau]

Hi!
David Morley wrote:

> I think it can be very long (the remote) 10 meters or more.
> I?m not too worried about guarantee at the saving I made ($1000) but I
> assume it is a year?
> I think we got them (we ordered 3) from www.samedaymusic.com but had to
> ship to a friend in the states as they don?t ship abroad.

Thank you for the info. I don't think this is an option for us as we don't
know someone there. I'll try to convince them to buy it here.

Christoph

[David Morley]

In article >,
Christoph Haselau > wrote:

> Hi!
> David Morley wrote:
>
> > I think it can be very long (the remote) 10 meters or more.
> > I?m not too worried about guarantee at the saving I made ($1000) but I
> > assume it is a year?
> > I think we got them (we ordered 3) from www.samedaymusic.com but had to
> > ship to a friend in the states as they don?t ship abroad.
>
> Thank you for the info. I don't think this is an option for us as we don't
> know someone there. I'll try to convince them to buy it here.
>
> Christoph
>

It?s a shame fostex have a very different pricing here to the states. It
is approx double the price here as the USA price. Why?
The mackie?s and Alesis are cheaper here. Maybe ?1400. The fostex is
still ?2000. I personally think it?s just a great system with the remote
built in, adat and analog I/O on balanced jacks (no sub-D which is good
but expensive for wiring) and let?s not forget fostex have been making
the D series of recorders for a long time now.

[David Morley]

In article >,
Christoph Haselau > wrote:

> Hi!
> David Morley wrote:
>
> > I think it can be very long (the remote) 10 meters or more.
> > I?m not too worried about guarantee at the saving I made ($1000) but I
> > assume it is a year?
> > I think we got them (we ordered 3) from www.samedaymusic.com but had to
> > ship to a friend in the states as they don?t ship abroad.
>
> Thank you for the info. I don't think this is an option for us as we don't
> know someone there. I'll try to convince them to buy it here.
>
> Christoph
>

It?s a shame fostex have a very different pricing here to the states. It
is approx double the price here as the USA price. Why?
The mackie?s and Alesis are cheaper here. Maybe ?1400. The fostex is
still ?2000. I personally think it?s just a great system with the remote
built in, adat and analog I/O on balanced jacks (no sub-D which is good
but expensive for wiring) and let?s not forget fostex have been making
the D series of recorders for a long time now.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> It?s a shame fostex have a very different pricing here to the states. It
> is approx double the price here as the USA price. Why?
> The mackie?s and Alesis are cheaper here. Maybe ?1400. The fostex is
> still ?2000.

Although they have a lot of really interesting products, it doesn't
seem that Fostex is taking pro audio very seriously. They don't have
good manuals, they don't have good distribution, and from what I've
heard, they don't have particularly good tech support, at least in the
US. It's almost like the audio division is the hobby of someone in the
company, maybe the president.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> It?s a shame fostex have a very different pricing here to the states. It
> is approx double the price here as the USA price. Why?
> The mackie?s and Alesis are cheaper here. Maybe ?1400. The fostex is
> still ?2000.

Although they have a lot of really interesting products, it doesn't
seem that Fostex is taking pro audio very seriously. They don't have
good manuals, they don't have good distribution, and from what I've
heard, they don't have particularly good tech support, at least in the
US. It's almost like the audio division is the hobby of someone in the
company, maybe the president.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Sugarite]

> Hi!
> I'm Sound tech in a semi-pro Rockband. We are looking for a device that
> enables us to record 24 tracks from the 3 ADAT-outs of our mixing-desk.
> We want to use it both live on stage (~3x/year) and in our "studio"
> (rehearsal-room(?) acoustically tuned) (1 CD/year).
> Now we can't decide wether to buy an Alesis HD-24 or a PC with RME
HDSP9652
> and Cubase SL.
> So here are my basic questions:
> 1. How safe is it to record with a PC on stage (with DAT backup)?
> 2. I know how to use a sequencer, but I have never worked (besides hitting
> 'record'+'play') with an ADAT. I know engineers have done this for
decades,
> but isn't it very uncomfortable to use a tape machine for editing?
> I also don't like the idea of not having ghost-tracks(for the 6543765st
> guitar solo;-)).
> 3. what do you think we should buy? For financial reasons we can only buy
> one of them for about the next 3-4 years.

Since you're only talking about using something a total of 4 times a year,
then it would be a shame if it were a one-trick pony and couldn't be used
for anything else. On that basis I'd recommend either getting the PC with
RME Hammerfall Digiface or just renting a suitable HDR, different models as
they become available. I would avoid ADAT tape since it's so inconvenient
to work with. If you had 24 tracks on ADAT to mix the first thing I'd
recommend is to transfer them to a DAW anyway. Any instability of the DAW
on location is offset by the fact that you can record again and again at no
cost.

Similarily I'd recommend getting a Nomad Jukebox 3 instead of the DAT
back-up. It's a huge benefit to have fast access to a 2-track demo so you
can quickly determine which songs worked, which ones didn't, and to appraise
the amount of work necessary to address any solvable problems, all before
stepping into a studio. There's nothing faster to work with than a NJB3 for
this purpose, they sound as good as DAT, they're much cheaper with no media
costs, and you get a great portable MP3 player and data transfer medium out
of the deal.

[Sugarite]

> Hi!
> I'm Sound tech in a semi-pro Rockband. We are looking for a device that
> enables us to record 24 tracks from the 3 ADAT-outs of our mixing-desk.
> We want to use it both live on stage (~3x/year) and in our "studio"
> (rehearsal-room(?) acoustically tuned) (1 CD/year).
> Now we can't decide wether to buy an Alesis HD-24 or a PC with RME
HDSP9652
> and Cubase SL.
> So here are my basic questions:
> 1. How safe is it to record with a PC on stage (with DAT backup)?
> 2. I know how to use a sequencer, but I have never worked (besides hitting
> 'record'+'play') with an ADAT. I know engineers have done this for
decades,
> but isn't it very uncomfortable to use a tape machine for editing?
> I also don't like the idea of not having ghost-tracks(for the 6543765st
> guitar solo;-)).
> 3. what do you think we should buy? For financial reasons we can only buy
> one of them for about the next 3-4 years.

Since you're only talking about using something a total of 4 times a year,
then it would be a shame if it were a one-trick pony and couldn't be used
for anything else. On that basis I'd recommend either getting the PC with
RME Hammerfall Digiface or just renting a suitable HDR, different models as
they become available. I would avoid ADAT tape since it's so inconvenient
to work with. If you had 24 tracks on ADAT to mix the first thing I'd
recommend is to transfer them to a DAW anyway. Any instability of the DAW
on location is offset by the fact that you can record again and again at no
cost.

Similarily I'd recommend getting a Nomad Jukebox 3 instead of the DAT
back-up. It's a huge benefit to have fast access to a 2-track demo so you
can quickly determine which songs worked, which ones didn't, and to appraise
the amount of work necessary to address any solvable problems, all before
stepping into a studio. There's nothing faster to work with than a NJB3 for
this purpose, they sound as good as DAT, they're much cheaper with no media
costs, and you get a great portable MP3 player and data transfer medium out
of the deal.

[David Morley]

In article <znr1065363713k@trad>, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

> In article >
> writes:
>
> > It?s a shame fostex have a very different pricing here to the states. It
> > is approx double the price here as the USA price. Why?
> > The mackie?s and Alesis are cheaper here. Maybe ?1400. The fostex is
> > still ?2000.
>
> Although they have a lot of really interesting products, it doesn't
> seem that Fostex is taking pro audio very seriously. They don't have
> good manuals, they don't have good distribution, and from what I've
> heard, they don't have particularly good tech support, at least in the
> US. It's almost like the audio division is the hobby of someone in the
> company, maybe the president.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers - )

I get that impression too Mike, but I ain´t arguing with $1100 for
resealed units....

[David Morley]

In article <znr1065363713k@trad>, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

> In article >
> writes:
>
> > It?s a shame fostex have a very different pricing here to the states. It
> > is approx double the price here as the USA price. Why?
> > The mackie?s and Alesis are cheaper here. Maybe ?1400. The fostex is
> > still ?2000.
>
> Although they have a lot of really interesting products, it doesn't
> seem that Fostex is taking pro audio very seriously. They don't have
> good manuals, they don't have good distribution, and from what I've
> heard, they don't have particularly good tech support, at least in the
> US. It's almost like the audio division is the hobby of someone in the
> company, maybe the president.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers - )

I get that impression too Mike, but I ain´t arguing with $1100 for
resealed units....

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I'm Sound tech in a semi-pro Rockband. We are looking for a device that
> enables us to record 24 tracks from the 3 ADAT-outs of our mixing-desk.

Digital outputs from a live sound mixing console? Ohhh! You DO live on
the edge.

> Now we can't decide wether to buy an Alesis HD-24 or a PC with RME HDSP9652
> and Cubase SL.

Buy the dedicated recorder.

> 1. How safe is it to record with a PC on stage (with DAT backup)?

As safe as the attention your full time operator is able ot give it.
DAT backup doesn't matter. I assume that the reason you want to record
multitrack is so that you can mix later on, and you can't remix a DAT
because it's only 2 tracks.

> 2. I know how to use a sequencer, but I have never worked (besides hitting
> 'record'+'play') with an ADAT. I know engineers have done this for decades,
> but isn't it very uncomfortable to use a tape machine for editing?

Yes, that's why you use a computer for editing. But it can also be
uncomforatable to use a computer for recording, which is why you use a
recorder for that purpose, particularly in a high stress environment
like recording a live performance. The two tasks (and mixing, for
three) are related but don't necessarily optimally use the same tools.

> 3. what do you think we should buy? For financial reasons we can only buy
> one of them for about the next 3-4 years.

If you don't think you'll be able to recover from a $2,000 expense in
3-4 years, I suggest that you buy nothing. As a business, it's a poor
investment for you.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )