Source for Turtable Cartridge?

[Steve Hawkins[_2_]]

What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days? The
local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who are not in
the DJ business.

Thanks,
Steve Hawkins

[Frank]

On 24 Jul 2011 15:52:43 GMT, in 'rec.audio.pro',
in article <Source for Turtable Cartridge?>,
Steve Hawkins > wrote:

>What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days?

Here are popular two vendors to try, with offerings ranging from about
$25 to about $15,000 (!), but there are others out there as well.

Music Direct | Audiophile Hardware, Vinyl Records and Analog Gear |
(800) 449-8333
http://www.musicdirect.com/

Needle Doctor (Jerry Raskin)
http://www.needledoctor.com/

>The
>local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who are not in
>the DJ business.

I know. Who else would want a turntable or a cartridge these days
except a DJ, right? :)

>Thanks,
>Steve Hawkins

You're welcome, and hope this helps.

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].

[Steve Hawkins[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

> Steve Hawkins > wrote:
>>What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days?
>>The local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who are
>>not in the DJ business.
>
> For what? You want DJ stuff or audiophile stuff? What kind of arm?
> Does the arm have a VTA adjustment? Is it heavy or light? What kind
> of music are you working with? Is tracking damaged records important
> to you? --scott

My life is not that complicated. Just want to replace the Shure V15 Type
IV that went south in my Technics SL-Q2.

Steve Hawkins

[Hank]

In article >,
Steve Hawkins > wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:
>
>> Steve Hawkins > wrote:
>>>What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days?
>>>The local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who are
>>>not in the DJ business.
>>
>> For what? You want DJ stuff or audiophile stuff? What kind of arm?
>> Does the arm have a VTA adjustment? Is it heavy or light? What kind
>> of music are you working with? Is tracking damaged records important
>> to you? --scott
>
>My life is not that complicated. Just want to replace the Shure V15 Type
>IV that went south in my Technics SL-Q2.
>
May I suggest a Stanton 681 EEE Mk III? It's a reasonably-priced
audiophile cartridge with elliptical stylus, separate from the rest of
the Stanton line. Available from needledoctor and other places.

I think that unless you want to go "exotic," you'll find this a good
replacement for the NLA Shure.

Hank

[Scott Dorsey]

Steve Hawkins > wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
>
>> Steve Hawkins > wrote:
>>>What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days?
>>>The local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who are
>>>not in the DJ business.
>>
>> For what? You want DJ stuff or audiophile stuff? What kind of arm?
>> Does the arm have a VTA adjustment? Is it heavy or light? What kind
>> of music are you working with? Is tracking damaged records important
>> to you? --scott
>
>My life is not that complicated. Just want to replace the Shure V15 Type
>IV that went south in my Technics SL-Q2.

Closest you'll come is probably the Shure M97xE. It's an elliptical,
though, and it won't track as well as the V15. However, you can't really
set up the fineline cartridges properly on that arm anyway so I'd probably
just go that route. Available from any Shure dealer or J&R or Jerry Raskin.

Forget any of the Grados and any of the finelines on that arm. You _might_
be able to get the Grado DJ-100 and put the elliptical stylus designed for
the ZTE+1 on it, but the other Grados won't be stable. You won't like the
AT440 or OC-9 on there either; stereo separation won't be so hot since you
can't get VTA.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Steve Hawkins[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

> Steve Hawkins > wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
>>
>>> Steve Hawkins > wrote:
>>>>What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days?
>>>>The local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who
>>>>are not in the DJ business.
>>>
>>> For what? You want DJ stuff or audiophile stuff? What kind of
>>> arm? Does the arm have a VTA adjustment? Is it heavy or light?
>>> What kind of music are you working with? Is tracking damaged
>>> records important to you? --scott
>>
>>My life is not that complicated. Just want to replace the Shure V15
>>Type IV that went south in my Technics SL-Q2.
>
> Closest you'll come is probably the Shure M97xE. It's an elliptical,
> though, and it won't track as well as the V15. However, you can't
> really set up the fineline cartridges properly on that arm anyway so
> I'd probably just go that route. Available from any Shure dealer or
> J&R or Jerry Raskin.
>
> Forget any of the Grados and any of the finelines on that arm. You
> _might_ be able to get the Grado DJ-100 and put the elliptical stylus
> designed for the ZTE+1 on it, but the other Grados won't be stable.
> You won't like the AT440 or OC-9 on there either; stereo separation
> won't be so hot since you can't get VTA.
> --scott
>

Thanks, Scott!

Steve Hawkins

[Steve Hawkins[_2_]]

(Hank) wrote in
:

> In article >,
> Steve Hawkins > wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:
>>
>>> Steve Hawkins > wrote:
>>>>What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days?
>>>>The local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who
>>>>are not in the DJ business.
>>>
>>> For what? You want DJ stuff or audiophile stuff? What kind of
>>> arm? Does the arm have a VTA adjustment? Is it heavy or light?
>>> What kind of music are you working with? Is tracking damaged
>>> records important to you? --scott
>>
>>My life is not that complicated. Just want to replace the Shure V15
>>Type IV that went south in my Technics SL-Q2.
>>
> May I suggest a Stanton 681 EEE Mk III? It's a reasonably-priced
> audiophile cartridge with elliptical stylus, separate from the rest of
> the Stanton line. Available from needledoctor and other places.
>
> I think that unless you want to go "exotic," you'll find this a good
> replacement for the NLA Shure.
>
> Hank
>

Thanks, Hank!

Steve Hawkins

[Scott Dorsey]

Steve Hawkins > wrote:
(Hank) wrote in
>>>
>> May I suggest a Stanton 681 EEE Mk III? It's a reasonably-priced
>> audiophile cartridge with elliptical stylus, separate from the rest of
>> the Stanton line. Available from needledoctor and other places.
>>
>> I think that unless you want to go "exotic," you'll find this a good
>> replacement for the NLA Shure.
>
>Thanks, Hank!

I think the 681 is a step down from the V15. It's a broadcast cartridge,
sort of in-between the audiophile and DJ worlds in terms of overall design,
but it's also probably the best broadcast cartridge ever made. Elliptical
styli are available for it, but no finelines. It tracks decently; not as
well as the V15 but better than any DJ cartridge ever will. Stereo
separation and overall imaging isn't all that great, though. The 681 is
actually my number one pick for 78 playback for a number of reasons
including available custom styli. So if you're thinking about ever playing
78s and want just one cartridge for 78s and LPs, it would definitely be
the way to go.

And it will work very well on that arm.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Frank" > wrote in message
...
> On 24 Jul 2011 15:52:43 GMT, in 'rec.audio.pro',
> in article <Source for Turtable Cartridge?>,
> Steve Hawkins > wrote:
>
>>What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days?
>
> Here are popular two vendors to try, with offerings ranging from about
> $25 to about $15,000 (!), but there are others out there as well.
>
> Music Direct | Audiophile Hardware, Vinyl Records and Analog Gear |
> (800) 449-8333
> http://www.musicdirect.com/
>
> Needle Doctor (Jerry Raskin)
> http://www.needledoctor.com/

>>The
>>local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who are not in
>>the DJ business.

LOL.

You might also want to check Amazon.

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Steve Hawkins" > wrote in message
31.10...
> (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
> :
>
>> Steve Hawkins > wrote:
>>>What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days?
>>>The local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who are
>>>not in the DJ business.
>>
>> For what? You want DJ stuff or audiophile stuff? What kind of arm?
>> Does the arm have a VTA adjustment? Is it heavy or light? What kind
>> of music are you working with? Is tracking damaged records important
>> to you? --scott
>
> My life is not that complicated. Just want to replace the Shure V15 Type
> IV that went south in my Technics SL-Q2.

Since Shure quit making V15s, they have been recommending M97XEs.

http://www.amazon.com/Shure-M97xE-High-Performance-Magnetic-Cartridge/dp/B00006I5SB

A few friends who are completely out of the vinyl thing have been giving me
their old cartrges and needles. Stanton has been the leading source of DOA
legacy cartridges. The coils are OK, but it seems like the magnets have lost
their magnetism.

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article >,
Steve Hawkins > wrote:

> What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days? The
> local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who are not in
> the DJ business.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Hawkins

Hey Steve!
http://www.needledoctor.com/

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Frank Stearns]

"Arny Krueger" > writes:

- various snips -

>Since Shure quit making V15s, they have been recommending M97XEs.

>http://www.amazon.com/Shure-M97xE-High-Performance-Magnetic-Cartridge/dp/B00006I5SB

Sigh. I loved my old V15 V, but worry now about the suspension being highly stiff,
possibly damaging records. Hasn't been used for 15+ years.

Am looking at refurbishing the LP chain at some point. Is the RIAA curve really just
a simple 6 dB/octave boost/cut with the "turnover" at 1Khz, or am I missing
something simple and important? (I'm thinking of applying the curve in the digital
domain after a signal from the cartrige has been digitized.)

TIA,
Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[Scott Dorsey]

Frank Stearns > wrote:
>Sigh. I loved my old V15 V, but worry now about the suspension being highly stiff,
>possibly damaging records. Hasn't been used for 15+ years.

Play a record you don't care about and see. If the suspension has hardened
up, the fundamental resonance will have gone way up too and you'll sure notice
it.

>Am looking at refurbishing the LP chain at some point. Is the RIAA curve really just
>a simple 6 dB/octave boost/cut with the "turnover" at 1Khz, or am I missing
>something simple and important? (I'm thinking of applying the curve in the digital
>domain after a signal from the cartrige has been digitized.)

No, it's a two-pole filter. Three if you want the optional rumble filter.
50 Hz, 500 Hz, and 2122 Hz turnover frequencies, 6dB/octave.

There is a good paper by Dr. Lipschitz on how the thing got that way.

You can apply it in the digital domain, BUT you will still need to make sure
the cartridge gets very accurate loading. A mike preamp designed for a low
Z microphone won't do very well with a moving magnet cartridge that needs to
see a 47Kohm load. It might work with a moving coil cartridge, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Frank Stearns" > wrote in message
acquisition...
> "Arny Krueger" > writes:
>
> - various snips -
>
>>Since Shure quit making V15s, they have been recommending M97XEs.
>
>>http://www.amazon.com/Shure-M97xE-High-Performance-Magnetic-Cartridge/dp/B00006I5SB

> Sigh. I loved my old V15 V, but worry now about the suspension being
> highly stiff,
> possibly damaging records. Hasn't been used for 15+ years.

Possibly. You might want to test it with an duplicate or pre-damaged LP.

IME Shure cartridges store well, as opposed to my unfortunate experience
with Stantons.

> Am looking at refurbishing the LP chain at some point. Is the RIAA curve
> really just
> a simple 6 dB/octave boost/cut with the "turnover" at 1Khz, or am I
> missing
> something simple and important? (I'm thinking of applying the curve in the
> digital
> domain after a signal from the cartrige has been digitized.)

Scott's answer is of course fine - of contempory sources, Hagermann Tech are
among those who specialize in knowlege of these things.

http://www.hagtech.com/ripper.html

Also see:

http://www.hagtech.com/pdf/riaa.pdf

If you know the inverse, then you know its inverse! ;-)

There have been parameter files for CoolEdit Pro for this purpose.

[Ty Ford]

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:52:43 -0400, Steve Hawkins wrote
(in article >):

> What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days? The
> local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who are not in
> the DJ business.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Hawkins

Audio Technica makes turntable cartridges.

http://www.needledoctor.com/New/Audio-Technica_3

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Scott Dorsey]

Arny Krueger > wrote:
>
>Scott's answer is of course fine - of contempory sources, Hagermann Tech are
>among those who specialize in knowlege of these things.

Hagerman also makes a very, very nice preamplifier kit that is only $100 or
so. It meets the RIAA specs very accurately and sounds great.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Steve Hawkins[_2_]]

Jenn > wrote in
-september.
org:

> In article >,
> Steve Hawkins > wrote:
>
>> What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days?
>> The local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who
>> are not in the DJ business.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve Hawkins
>
> Hey Steve!

Hey Jenn! Why aren't you practicing? :-)

Steve Hawkins

[Frank Stearns]

(Scott Dorsey) writes:

>Frank Stearns > wrote:
>>Sigh. I loved my old V15 V, but worry now about the suspension being highly stiff,
>>possibly damaging records. Hasn't been used for 15+ years.

>Play a record you don't care about and see. If the suspension has hardened
>up, the fundamental resonance will have gone way up too and you'll sure notice
>it.

Okay.

>>Am looking at refurbishing the LP chain at some point. Is the RIAA curve really just
>>a simple 6 dB/octave boost/cut with the "turnover" at 1Khz, or am I missing
>>something simple and important? (I'm thinking of applying the curve in the digital
>>domain after a signal from the cartrige has been digitized.)

>No, it's a two-pole filter. Three if you want the optional rumble filter.
>50 Hz, 500 Hz, and 2122 Hz turnover frequencies, 6dB/octave.

Ah! Thank you.

>There is a good paper by Dr. Lipschitz on how the thing got that way.

>You can apply it in the digital domain, BUT you will still need to make sure
>the cartridge gets very accurate loading. A mike preamp designed for a low
>Z microphone won't do very well with a moving magnet cartridge that needs to
>see a 47Kohm load. It might work with a moving coil cartridge, though.

Right. When I get to that point, I was going to try a number of different things...

- I have a phono pre-amp based on API 2520s built for my by one of the design
engineers at Quad-8 when I was there 30+ years ago. Might need some re-capping, for
sure the power supply would need some work (+/- 28V supplies that QE used back in
those days.) Problem is there're too many other things to get done at the moment
before going down that particular rabbit hole.

- My RME box, the one I use mostly as a format converter, has microphone preamps
bolted on. There are a couple of Hi-Z instrument inputs for them that I was going to
try. Pres and A-D are quite good, but not stunning.

- I'd really like to try the Grace 802. Besides the great pres, it has superb
on-board A-D. Inputs are nominally 5K; was thinking perhaps I could get away with
series 39K (or 44K if I can find a precision value in that range) to make the
cartridge happy.

Still have a ways to go, though. Still need a new belt for the old turntable;
thought I had a source but the company seems to be dead. Sigh.

Probably be Fall before I can get to this.

Thanks for the input, though.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article >,
Steve Hawkins > wrote:

> Jenn > wrote in
> -september.
> org:
>
> > In article >,
> > Steve Hawkins > wrote:
> >
> >> What's the goto online source for Turntable Cartridges these days?
> >> The local stores can't seem to understand there are some folks who
> >> are not in the DJ business.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Steve Hawkins
> >
> > Hey Steve!
>
> Hey Jenn! Why aren't you practicing? :-)
>
> Steve Hawkins

I've cut back to 20 hours a day, for today only. ;-)

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Trevor]

"Frank Stearns" > wrote in message news:kJ-
> - I'd really like to try the Grace 802. Besides the great pres, it has
> superb
> on-board A-D. Inputs are nominally 5K; was thinking perhaps I could get
> away with
> series 39K (or 44K if I can find a precision value in that range) to make
> the
> cartridge happy.

You should probably rethink that. Given a nominal cartridge output of around
5mV, you will get around 0.5mV into the Grace after the 44k+5k to 5k
attenuator, then you need to boost the bass by about 20dB. Not necessarily a
recipe for improving on a cheap phono pre-amp IMO.

Trevor.

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Frank Stearns wrote:

> - I'd really like to try the Grace 802. Besides the great pres,
> it has superb on-board A-D. Inputs are nominally 5K

High output MC then, if they still make it the Ortofon X5MC is "fine
with me". Even better after corrective EQ, get a test record and measure
the actual playback chain and "fix it in post". Will teach you a thing
or two about the RIAA amps in the household - I found one of them to
have 3 dB too much 50 Hz as my old Audire also had ex works.

You will have to settle for a treble compromise since response varies
depending on radial position, strictly speaking possibly because of
groove curvature but I'm then getting into something that I had better
let Scott explain.

> Frank
> Mobile Audio

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Jenn wrote:

> > Hey Jenn! Why aren't you practicing? :-)

> > Steve Hawkins

> I've cut back to 20 hours a day, for today only. ;-)

Typing in this newsgroup is ok, keeps the fingers flexible.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Frank Stearns]

"Trevor" > writes:


>"Frank Stearns" > wrote in message news:kJ-
>> - I'd really like to try the Grace 802. Besides the great pres, it has
>> superb
>> on-board A-D. Inputs are nominally 5K; was thinking perhaps I could get
>> away with
>> series 39K (or 44K if I can find a precision value in that range) to make
>> the
>> cartridge happy.

>You should probably rethink that. Given a nominal cartridge output of around
>5mV, you will get around 0.5mV into the Grace after the 44k+5k to 5k
>attenuator, then you need to boost the bass by about 20dB. Not necessarily a
>recipe for improving on a cheap phono pre-amp IMO.

Good points; still might be worth a try, though. There is a ribbon setting, which
locks out phantom (a good idea) and adds gain. Obviously, though, one will need to
be extremely careful about ANY LF noise. (It does help that the Grace PS is external
and can be located away from the electronics.)

Thanks,
Frank


--

[geoff]

"Trevor" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Frank Stearns" > wrote in message
> news:kJ-
>> - I'd really like to try the Grace 802. Besides the great pres, it has
>> superb
>> on-board A-D. Inputs are nominally 5K; was thinking perhaps I could get
>> away with
>> series 39K (or 44K if I can find a precision value in that range) to make
>> the
>> cartridge happy.
>
> You should probably rethink that. Given a nominal cartridge output of
> around 5mV, you will get around 0.5mV into the Grace after the 44k+5k to
> 5k attenuator, then you need to boost the bass by about 20dB. Not
> necessarily a recipe for improving on a cheap phono pre-amp IMO.
>
> Trevor.


And cutting your dynamic range, and raising the preamp noise.

geoff