Would this UPS (Uninterrupted Power Supply) protect and power my gear?

[Dude Japan]

I have a MacPro with Dual 2.66 Xeons. Apparently it has a 1,000 Watt
powersupply.

I also have powered speakers, my 003, and a couple audio processors
that total 500 Watts

I don't really get the VA ratings of these UPS systems. Can anyone
tell me if this one will do the job?

http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMT750-Smart-UPS-750VA-120V/dp/B002MZW5KE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311449486&sr=1-1

And how do you know?

[Dave C]

"Dude Japan" > wrote in message
...
>I have a MacPro with Dual 2.66 Xeons. Apparently it has a 1,000 Watt
> powersupply.
>
> I also have powered speakers, my 003, and a couple audio processors
> that total 500 Watts
>
> I don't really get the VA ratings of these UPS systems. Can anyone
> tell me if this one will do the job?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMT750-Smart-UPS-750VA-120V/dp/B002MZW5KE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311449486&sr=1-1
>
> And how do you know?

You won't like this answer :)

It depends - Without doing some measurements you need to take the ratings
supplied by the manufacturer. There MIGHT be a case for discounting the
1500w quoted but you can't without doing the measurements and making a
concious decision about the real loads to be connected via the UPS.

With the information provided you appear to need a UPS cabable of operating
with 1500W of load. Things like power factor come into the equation, however
the 750VA unit you quoted looks less than half the size required. You might
ask yourself how long you expect it to keep operating without power also -
reserve time can be remarkably short at full load for these things.

Regards
Dave


--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Dude Japan wrote:

> I have a MacPro with Dual 2.66 Xeons. Apparently it has a 1,000 Watt
> powersupply.

Capable of delivering I reckon.

> I also have powered speakers, my 003, and a couple audio processors
> that total 500 Watts

Those need surge protection, not uninterrupted power.

> I don't really get the VA ratings of these UPS systems. Can anyone
> tell me if this one will do the job?

http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMT750-Smart-UPS-750VA-120V/dp/B002MZW5KE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311449486&sr=1-1

I don't want to answer this in terms of usable for your purpose or not,
ask APC. But what is it you do not understand about 750 VA in terms of
VA rating?

> And how do you know?

What I will say is that the HP ML110 single dualcore xeon servers on my
daytime job actually uses from 60 to some 200 watts as measured by their
ups's, varying with load and disk setup, no monitor included because
they ain't got one and it would be idiotic to put on the the ups anyway.
The extra cost of a wee bit larger ups for eah was modest so I ordered
them generously sized.

Powerglitches usually last seconds so 20 minutes running time is fine,
as is even 5 minutes. But you need to be aware that it is probably
cheaper to get a 1 kW ups that doesn't risk running its battery as far
down and thus has a longer battery lifetime than to get a small ups that
runs it battery percentage wise more down when it uses it.

Lead acid batteries that are constantly charged have a very long service
life, lead acid batteries that are frequently discharged have a much
shorter service life. A dedicated starter battery tolerates a single
digit number of full discharge-recharge cycles.

APC recommends battery replacement every other year, to me it depends a
lot on actual usage conditions for the UPS whether it is relevant. For
workstation use what you need is overvoltage protection first and time
for an automatic system shutdown inititated by the ups second, for a
harddisk recorder the required running time depends on whether the show
goes on sans power or not and on whether micpres and thus mics are
powered by it as well. For studio use you just need time to stop the
recording properly so as to avoid disk corruption.

It would help if you told us which problem it is you want to solve with
the UPS since you seem to consider running active speakers via it ...

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Hank]

In article >,
Dude Japan > wrote:
>I have a MacPro with Dual 2.66 Xeons. Apparently it has a 1,000 Watt
>powersupply.
>
>I also have powered speakers, my 003, and a couple audio processors
>that total 500 Watts
>
>I don't really get the VA ratings of these UPS systems. Can anyone
>tell me if this one will do the job?
>
>http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMT750-Smart-UPS-750VA-120V/dp/B002MZW5KE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311449486&sr=1-1
>
>And how do you know?

You need more data to determine the minimum unit. You'll need actual
power draw measurements for your equipment. That 2-CPU Mac probably
actually draws around 150 watts. Don't know about the audio setup.
Typical powered speakers for computers don't draw anything like 500
watts continuous.

One clue on actual power consumption is the amount of heat generated
by the equipment. One kilowatt-hour equates to 3416 BTU. I doubt
you are generating anything like that amount of heat.

One parameter you haven't given, which is critical, and that is the
amount of no-power runtime you need. Unless all you want is
protection from very short dropouts, you'll want more than "minimum"
to get battery capacity.

The APC Smart-UPS line is pretty much the "Cadillac" line of small
UPS's. APC also makes a much cheaper "Back-UPS" line.

The "how I know" is that I liberated a pair of 1997 APC SU1400NET
UPS's at a dot com bankruptcy auction for $100 back around 2001.
These are equivalent to the current SUA1500 APC product. If I had to
buy replacements, I'd buy the SUA1500. It's the maximum unit that
will plug into a NEMA 15 wall socket. A pair of Sun Ultra 60's, a
couple of Fortigate 60 routers, and a Sony 20-inch CRT monitor draw
about 30% of the 950 watt/1400 VA capacity, and have about 15-20
minutes support time available, from one unit.

Battery life is another issue. I think my boxes are on their fourth
set. The originals lasted until 2003. I went through a couple of
Tripp-Lites that only lasted two years, and am about three years into
genuine APC RBC7's. Life depends on the number of deep cycles, so you
want capacity to avoid deep cycle use.

I'd suggest going to the APC website,
http://www.apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=13
and using the tools for selection. The product description for the
SUA 1500 is at
http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA1500

I'd also suggest buying from one of the vendors APC lists in their
"how to buy" section. These things are not light weight, and you'll
pay shipping.

I can't comment on the Back-UPS line, as I'm not running "consumer
grade" stuff.

Hank

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Hank wrote:

> I can't comment on the Back-UPS line, as I'm not running "consumer
> grade" stuff.

I bought a 350 for my MR8HD back in 2007 when using it in a tent with power
from a very long extension cord across a lawn, to maintain its battery - and
to protect apartment server and network implements - it is inline with them.

The possible audio issue with the back ups line is that they do not supply a
sinewave looking version of sinewave, according to discussion on the HD24
list the smart ups actually does that. I wouldn't expect digital gear to be
a worry, but some analog equipment may perform poorly with too much hf
overlaid on the power.

As for "comsumer grade" ... dunno about that, it made more sense for me when
defining a back office to put a back ups on each server and have it right
next to it. Fancy new building with heatpumps and ventilation and occasional
powerglitches that we didn't have in the farm house the administration used
to be in and do not have in the other buildings and a print/server cubicle
that is not designed to handle the 1 kWatt combined waste heat in spite of
the consulting Suit, plain not pinstripe but educated enough to know best,
being asked whether he had consided the waste heat from the installation.

Which is silly because it should have been distributed to the rest of the
building in winter and removed in summer and because it will end up costing
in terms of equipment life time since everything in that room is running 5
degrees centigrade hotter than it should have been, even allowing for
acceptable seasonal variations.

> Hank

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Neill Massello]

Dude Japan > wrote:

> I have a MacPro with Dual 2.66 Xeons. Apparently it has a 1,000 Watt
> powersupply.
>
> I also have powered speakers, my 003, and a couple audio processors
> that total 500 Watts
>
> I don't really get the VA ratings of these UPS systems. Can anyone
> tell me if this one will do the job?

A Mac Pro draws too much current at startup or wake for even a 1500VA
UPS running on battery power, but a 750VA unit will keep it running once
it's up. Running a Pro _plus_ 500W really needs more than a 750VA unit.
Consider using a larger UPS, more than one, or running some of that
hardware, such as the powered speakers, without battery backup. You're
not going to get more than a few minutes of reliable run-time, enough to
save and shut down, from any power backup product in this price range.

[Dude Japan]

OK....

I'm going to ask this another way...


I have 1500 Watts worth of Audio Gear

Please give me a LINK to a (product or products) that

1.) keeps the computer (probably drawing much less than 1000W after
start up) running for 90 seconds so I can shut down properly.
2.) costs under $500
3.) is noiseless (or under 20 db )
4.) weighs under 200 lb
5.) protects everything from power spikes.

Thanks in advance.

[Scott Dorsey]

Dude Japan > wrote:
>I have 1500 Watts worth of Audio Gear
>
>Please give me a LINK to a (product or products) that
>
>1.) keeps the computer (probably drawing much less than 1000W after
>start up) running for 90 seconds so I can shut down properly.
>2.) costs under $500
>3.) is noiseless (or under 20 db )
>4.) weighs under 200 lb
>5.) protects everything from power spikes.

Doesn't exist. Try one of the 2KVA Ferrups units. Put it in the basement
so the noise and field leakage isn't a problem. The waveform coming out
of them is very clean and lower distortion than what the power company puts
out around here. You can often find surplus ones on the used market. They
are a solid, overdesigned offline unit with a ferroresonant regulator after
them, which also acts as a low-pass filter and gives very good isolation from
line noise. If you buy one used, budget around $200 to replace the batteries
and then about $200 every three years for preventative replacement.

Don't waste your money on cheap consumer crap.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On 2011-07-24 (ScottDorsey) said:
>>1.) keeps the computer (probably drawing much less than 1000W after
>>start up) running for 90 seconds so I can shut down properly.
>>2.) costs under $500
>>3.) is noiseless (or under 20 db )
>>4.) weighs under 200 lb
>>5.) protects everything from power spikes.
>Doesn't exist. Try one of the 2KVA Ferrups units. Put it in the
>basement so the noise and field leakage isn't a problem. The
>waveform coming out of them is very clean and lower distortion than
>what the power company puts out around here. You can often find
>surplus ones on the used market. They are a solid, overdesigned
>offline unit with a ferroresonant regulator after them, which also
>acts as a low-pass filter and gives very good isolation from line
>noise. If you buy one used, budget around $200 to replace the
>batteries and then about $200 every three years for preventative
>replacement. Don't waste your money on cheap consumer crap.

I would agree with that. I buy big 140 amp/hr gels that a
major company locally rotates out and donates to a ham radio
association, so I"ll rotate a different one into UPS duty
every time I use my hd24.




Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Dude Japan]

>
> Doesn't exist. *Try one of the 2KVA Ferrups units. *Put it in the basement
> so the noise and field leakage isn't a problem.

Scott ,

Thanks for the advice. Currently my studio has taken over my house.
The Ferrups looks like a great investment for the next place I
live.... hopefully a place that I can build from the ground up. I do
actually get stable voltage from my utility, so I guess that surge
protection is going to be adequate for me for a while.

-Clay

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Dude Japan" > wrote in message
...
>I have a MacPro with Dual 2.66 Xeons. Apparently it has a 1,000 Watt
> powersupply.
>
> I also have powered speakers, my 003, and a couple audio processors
> that total 500 Watts
>
> I don't really get the VA ratings of these UPS systems. Can anyone
> tell me if this one will do the job?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMT750-Smart-UPS-750VA-120V/dp/B002MZW5KE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311449486&sr=1-1
>
> And how do you know?

Just because a PC has a 1 KW power supply does not mean that it draws even
100 watts.

If you want to know your power drain, get a Kill-A-Watt line analyzer -
available all over the place for under $30.

I don't know what you want to protect - if your PC can't take a unscheduled
power outage it is too fragile for words.

Long ago Netware had an unbelievably fragile file system that couln't take
unscheduled power outages without manual recovery, but those days are long
gone.

[Scott Dorsey]

Dude Japan > wrote:
>
>Thanks for the advice. Currently my studio has taken over my house.
>The Ferrups looks like a great investment for the next place I
>live.... hopefully a place that I can build from the ground up. I do
>actually get stable voltage from my utility, so I guess that surge
>protection is going to be adequate for me for a while.

If you get stable voltage from your utility than just don't worry about it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Carey Carlan]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

> Doesn't exist. Try one of the 2KVA Ferrups units. Put it in the
> basement so the noise and field leakage isn't a problem. The
> waveform coming out of them is very clean and lower distortion than
> what the power company puts out around here. You can often find
> surplus ones on the used market. They are a solid, overdesigned
> offline unit with a ferroresonant regulator after them, which also
> acts as a low-pass filter and gives very good isolation from line
> noise. If you buy one used, budget around $200 to replace the
> batteries and then about $200 every three years for preventative
> replacement.

Where does one look for "surplus ones on the used market"?

[Scott Dorsey]

Carey Carlan > wrote:
:
>
>> Doesn't exist. Try one of the 2KVA Ferrups units. Put it in the
>> basement so the noise and field leakage isn't a problem. The
>> waveform coming out of them is very clean and lower distortion than
>> what the power company puts out around here. You can often find
>> surplus ones on the used market. They are a solid, overdesigned
>> offline unit with a ferroresonant regulator after them, which also
>> acts as a low-pass filter and gives very good isolation from line
>> noise. If you buy one used, budget around $200 to replace the
>> batteries and then about $200 every three years for preventative
>> replacement.
>
>Where does one look for "surplus ones on the used market"?

Ebay would be a start. You will have to pick up, though.
Otherwise ask local surplus dealers and guys who do computer power systems.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."