Recording Engineers as Artists

[mcp6453[_2_]]

For some reason lately, I've been listening to music on the radio. While I've
heard all of the songs thousands of times (oldies), I'm hearing and appreciating
things I've never heard or appreciated before. Even on FM radio, it's amazing
how well many records were engineered over the years.

You guys who record for a living can probably name or maybe even know the
engineers of some of the biggest hit records, but my knowledge is not that deep
when you get past Geoff Emerick. Who engineered "Good Vibrations" by the Beach
Boys? (The edits are terrible, but the recording is quite good.) What about The
Carpenters? How about "Bridge Over Troubled Water?"

All this is to say that, the tracking and mixing engineers on a lot of records
are as talented if not more talented than the artists. Most of them are unsung
heroes in the music world. So long as people are undiscerning enough to listen
to MP3s of Taylor Swift, engineers will never get their due recognition.
However, as a student and fan of yesterday's music, I really appreciate these
guys not settling for "good enough" when they could have gotten away with it.

[Jason Warren[_2_]]

In article >, says...
>
> Who engineered "Good Vibrations" by the Beach
> Boys? (The edits are terrible, but the recording is quite good.)

I've read that Brian Wilson himself presided over the engineering...and that the fact he
had hearing in only one ear made him indifferent to stereo but (duh) really careful about
how it sounded in mono. Car radios in 1970?

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/14/2011 7:14 PM, mcp6453 wrote:

> You guys who record for a living can probably name or maybe even know the
> engineers of some of the biggest hit records, but my knowledge is not that deep
> when you get past Geoff Emerick. Who engineered "Good Vibrations" by the Beach
> Boys? (The edits are terrible, but the recording is quite good.) What about The
> Carpenters? How about "Bridge Over Troubled Water?"

During that period, the major labels had their own studios
with staff engineers in white lab coats. Many of them got
their names on records, and a handful of them made a career
as hired guns when record production became independent of
the label. Still, most engineers are only known by name to
other engineers, and we learn about them by reading articles
in magazines like Mix.

> All this is to say that, the tracking and mixing engineers on a lot of records
> are as talented if not more talented than the artists.

They don't necessarily sing better or write better songs
(though some do) but today's independent recording engineer
needs to be a lot more than someone who can set a mic in the
right place and run the tape. Even some of the late 20th
Century studio jobs like "Pro Tools Operator" (the one who
assigned all the inputs to the tracks and did all the edits
during the coffee breaks) have pretty much evaporated as the
engineer has had to do those tasks himself in order to meet
the budget.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[david gourley[_2_]]

mcp6453 > put forth the notion in...news:6
:

> For some reason lately, I've been listening to music on the radio. While
I've
> heard all of the songs thousands of times (oldies), I'm hearing and
appreciating
> things I've never heard or appreciated before. Even on FM radio, it's
amazing
> how well many records were engineered over the years.
>
> You guys who record for a living can probably name or maybe even know the
> engineers of some of the biggest hit records, but my knowledge is not
that deep
> when you get past Geoff Emerick. Who engineered "Good Vibrations" by the
Beach
> Boys? (The edits are terrible, but the recording is quite good.) What
about The
> Carpenters? How about "Bridge Over Troubled Water?"
>
> All this is to say that, the tracking and mixing engineers on a lot of
records
> are as talented if not more talented than the artists. Most of them are
unsung
> heroes in the music world. So long as people are undiscerning enough to
listen
> to MP3s of Taylor Swift, engineers will never get their due recognition.
> However, as a student and fan of yesterday's music, I really appreciate
these
> guys not settling for "good enough" when they could have gotten away with
it.
>

'Good Vibrations' was Cal Harris according to my box set notes. The 28th
take was the master.

Roy Halee for 'Bridge Over Troubled Water' and most of S&G's hits.


david

[Mark]

On Jul 14, 8:19*pm, david gourley >
wrote:
> mcp6453 > put forth the notion in...news:6
> :
>
>
>
>
>
> > For some reason lately, I've been listening to music on the radio. While
> I've
> > heard all of the songs thousands of times (oldies), I'm hearing and
> appreciating
> > things I've never heard or appreciated before. Even on FM radio, it's
> amazing
> > how well many records were engineered over the years.
>
> > You guys who record for a living can probably name or maybe even know the
> > engineers of some of the biggest hit records, but my knowledge is not
> that deep
> > when you get past Geoff Emerick. Who engineered "Good Vibrations" by the
> Beach
> > Boys? (The edits are terrible, but the recording is quite good.) What
> about The
> > Carpenters? How about "Bridge Over Troubled Water?"
>
> > All this is to say that, the tracking and mixing engineers on a lot of
> records
> > are as talented if not more talented than the artists. Most of them are
> unsung
> > heroes in the music world. So long as people are undiscerning enough to
> listen
> > to MP3s of Taylor Swift, engineers will never get their due recognition..
> > However, as a student and fan of yesterday's music, I really appreciate
> these
> > guys not settling for "good enough" when they could have gotten away with
> it.
>
> 'Good Vibrations' was Cal Harris according to my box set notes. The 28th
> take was the master. *
>
> Roy Halee for 'Bridge Over Troubled Water' and most of S&G's hits.
>
> david

i take note of how good the sound quality of many of these "oldies"
without the benefit of 24bit 96kbps technology.

of course some are terrible.. but the fact that some are good shows
what was possible to make good recordings with stone knives and bear
skins..

Mark

[[email protected]]

Of course, Rudy Van Gelder for all those great Blue Note records.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Mark wrote:

> of course some are terrible.. but the fact that some are good shows
> what was possible to make good recordings with stone knives and bear
> skins..

Stone knives are as sharp as glass shards. What is difficult is to get a
stainless knife as sharp as a flint knife. During the stone age Denmark had
a thriving flint export to most of Europe.

> Mark

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

mcp6453 wrote:

[omitted, commenting on the header]

A recording does in my opinion constitute A work, just as a photograph does
it and droit morale should be similarly applied, ie. it should be illegal to
omit sound engineers name from the credit list. It can be as good a strategi
for collecting listenable software to collect engineers as to collect
musicians or composers, quite possibly some of the time better.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[geoff]

Mark wrote:
> i take note of how good the sound quality of many of these "oldies"
> without the benefit of 24bit 96kbps technology.
>
> of course some are terrible.. but the fact that some are good shows
> what was possible to make good recordings with stone knives and bear
> skins..
>

Try Oscar Pterson (Ray Brown) "You look good to me" off We Get Requests from
mid 60s. They really did have bass in thosae days after all (and treble) !

geoff

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"mcp6453" > wrote in message
...

>. So long as people are undiscerning enough to listen
> to MP3s of Taylor Swift, engineers will never get their due recognition.


I think that you are understimating the benefits of good production and
overestimating the masking effects of modern compressed file downloads.

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:14:58 -0400, mcp6453 > wrote:

>All this is to say that, the tracking and mixing engineers on a lot of records
>are as talented if not more talented than the artists. Most of them are unsung
>heroes in the music world.

Arguably this could be subjective. There were many a sound engineer in
the day that were well acclaimed for their expertise. One of the best
possibly would have been, Eddy Offord. A well produced album is
usually a collaboration between artist and engineer. OTOH I have
played in situations where the engineer was actually a detriment to
the bands sound, more than a few times. You would be hard pressed to
claim that for instance a great acoustic hall could make it's own
music. Without the artist providing a tapestry of ideas, the engineer
has nothing to work with. I've heard it said for instance that Led
Zeps first album was recorded on a simple 8 track machine with Page
heavily involved in the process. Same with Hendrix, Pete Townsend and
Tom Scholz, etc. and the list goes on. I find it hard to believe that
given today's "artists", a sound man (engineer) in those days could
make a "black eyed pea" sound like anything more than what it is,
baseless hype and garbage.

[Nate Najar]

On Jul 15, 9:55*am, wrote:
I find it hard to believe that
> given today's "artists", a sound man (engineer) in those days could
> make a "black eyed pea" sound like anything more than what it is,
> baseless hype and garbage.

actually, a black eyed pea is really a bean, but for some reason they
call it a pea....

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 19:13:26 -0700 (PDT), Nate Najar
> wrote:

>On Jul 15, 9:55*am, wrote:
> I find it hard to believe that
>> given today's "artists", a sound man (engineer) in those days could
>> make a "black eyed pea" sound like anything more than what it is,
>> baseless hype and garbage.
>
>actually, a black eyed pea is really a bean, but for some reason they
>call it a pea....

That has a much better ring to it than, "black eyed pea pea"