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View Full Version : Re: Live Sound, Mixing Boards, and Me


Walt
June 30th 11, 04:42 PM
On 6/26/2011 9:43 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

> copped a track from the sound board, and is that ever weird. We don't
> usually like to take their sound, because it just sounds so Tron like - no
> audience applause, just the musical instrument and mike feeds from the
> stage. What was more disappointing about the board sound was that it was
> dead straight mono. Phooey. I always wondered about that - whether they were
> clever enough to mix the PA sound in stereo. Guess not. Maybe it doesn't
> matter.

Most PA systems these days are stereo (or two channel if you want to be
picky), but there are still folks out there running in mono. The thing
is, the operator has to be a bit circumspect about panning because the
job of the PA is to distribute the sound throughout the audience and if
something is panned hard left or hard right much of the audience may not
be able to hear it. So even with a stereo rig, the amount of actual
stereo is limited.

As for the "Tron like" sound, the signal sent to the speakers is usually
fairly dry - you can't use distant-mic techniques for PA because it'll
feed-back, and you don't need to add the ambient sound and audience
since it's already there.

So, usually the PA signal needs a little something extra to finish it
off so it sounds like a recording rather than just a board feed. (a bit
of artificial reverb and/or some room/audience mics) The one thing the
PA signal does give you is a direct clear close-miced signal of the
instruments so you have a chance at making a professional sounding
recording. A mic or mics in the audience without the close-miced signal
will always sound like a bootleg - you're basically recording the PA
rather than the instruments themselves.

Of course, the real way to do it is to split the individual mics and do
your own mix, perhaps laying them to a multi-track so you can mix it
later. And mixing for video brings it's own complications since what
sounds best when accompanied by a picture is not what sounds best sans
picture. For instance, not everything can be on-top of the mix, so some
musicians will be a bit buried, but if the camera focuses on something
that's burried, it sounds wrong.

//Walt

Gary Eickmeier
June 30th 11, 08:09 PM
"Walt" > wrote in message
...

> Most PA systems these days are stereo (or two channel if you want to be
> picky), but there are still folks out there running in mono. The thing
> is, the operator has to be a bit circumspect about panning because the
> job of the PA is to distribute the sound throughout the audience and if
> something is panned hard left or hard right much of the audience may not
> be able to hear it. So even with a stereo rig, the amount of actual
> stereo is limited.

Sure, the boards are stereo, but they usually don't bother to attempt to pan
anything, because of the reasons you suggest. So my feed was the same in
both channels.
>
> As for the "Tron like" sound, the signal sent to the speakers is usually
> fairly dry - you can't use distant-mic techniques for PA because it'll
> feed-back, and you don't need to add the ambient sound and audience
> since it's already there.
>
> So, usually the PA signal needs a little something extra to finish it
> off so it sounds like a recording rather than just a board feed. (a bit
> of artificial reverb and/or some room/audience mics) The one thing the
> PA signal does give you is a direct clear close-miced signal of the
> instruments so you have a chance at making a professional sounding
> recording. A mic or mics in the audience without the close-miced signal
> will always sound like a bootleg - you're basically recording the PA
> rather than the instruments themselves.

Mice in the signal? :)

> Of course, the real way to do it is to split the individual mics and do
> your own mix, perhaps laying them to a multi-track so you can mix it
> later. And mixing for video brings it's own complications since what
> sounds best when accompanied by a picture is not what sounds best sans
> picture. For instance, not everything can be on-top of the mix, so some
> musicians will be a bit buried, but if the camera focuses on something
> that's burried, it sounds wrong.

That's basically what I ended up doing, but of course the music from the PA
system is mono, so that leaves just the audience applause and other ambience
in stereo. But we didn't even have much of an audience, so I was out of
luck. But I did mix my microphone sound in with the board feed so it didn't
sound so dry and lacking in bass or reverb.

Gary Eickmeier