BEST DRUM MACHINE FOR HIP HOP BEATS?????

[Paul[_13_]]

I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
balls. I suspect you can't really get those
cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
best box for this.

I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....

Any recommendations?

[ChrisCoaster]

On May 28, 11:20*am, Paul > wrote:
> * * I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> best box for this.
>
> * * I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> * * Any recommendations?
_______________

I've got one - 5ft 8, 195lbs, uses two wooden sticks and a decent set
of Pearls. $300/hour.

;)

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
>,
Paul > wrote:

> I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> balls. I suspect you can't really get those
> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> best box for this.

Stevie Gadd ;-)

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 28, 10:08*am, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
> On May 28, 11:20*am, Paul > wrote:> * * I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> > in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> > balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
> > cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> > machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> > best box for this.
>
> > * * I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> > * * Any recommendations?
>
> _______________
>
> I've got one - 5ft 8, 195lbs, uses two wooden sticks and a decent set
> of Pearls. *$300/hour.
>
> ;)


I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!

drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
ALCOHOL!!!!!

TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
>,
Paul > wrote:

> On May 28, 10:08*am, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
> > On May 28, 11:20*am, Paul > wrote:> * * I've tried
> > many freebie plug-in drum machines
> > > in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> > > balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
> > > cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> > > machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> > > best box for this.
> >
> > > * * I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
> >
> > > * * Any recommendations?
> >
> > _______________
> >
> > I've got one - 5ft 8, 195lbs, uses two wooden sticks and a decent set
> > of Pearls. *$300/hour.
> >
> > ;)
>
>
> I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
>
> drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> ALCOHOL!!!!!
>
> TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......

Time to hire a real pro then.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Ron Capik[_3_]]

On 5/28/2011 6:33 PM, Paul wrote:
> On May 28, 10:08 am, > wrote:
>> On May 28, 11:20 am, > wrote:> I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
>>> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
>>> balls. I suspect you can't really get those
>>> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
>>> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
>>> best box for this.
>>
>>> I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>>
>>> Any recommendations?
>>
>> _______________
>>
>> I've got one - 5ft 8, 195lbs, uses two wooden sticks and a decent set
>> of Pearls. $300/hour.
>>
>> ;)
>
>
> I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
>
> drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> ALCOHOL!!!!!
>
> TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......

Poor equipment frequently costs more
in the long run.


Later...
Ron Capik
--

[RD Jones]

On May 28, 10:20*am, Paul > wrote:
> * * I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> best box for this.
>
> * * I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> * * Any recommendations?

Akai MPC-xx, E-mu SP1200 or SP-12, or even an Alesis SR-18.

Whatever you use, find a reasonable sounding hihat.
Those toyish Roland 8bit hats drive me up the wall.

rd

[geoff]

Paul wrote:
>
>
> I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
>
> drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> ALCOHOL!!!!!
>
> TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......

I've tried hip-hop. Doesn't keep music very well ;-)

geoff

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 28, 6:28*pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
> > * * *I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
>
> > * * *drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> > ALCOHOL!!!!!
>
> > * * *TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......
>
> I've tried hip-hop. *Doesn't keep music very well ;-)
>
> geoff


Hip Hop makes more money than any other
music at the moment. If you wanna be in the poor
house, go ahead! :/

[Scott Dorsey]

Paul > wrote:
>
> Hip Hop makes more money than any other
>music at the moment. If you wanna be in the poor
>house, go ahead! :/

But, for some reason the price of the Roland 808 on the used market will
put you in the poorhouse too.

Does anyone still use beat LPs with locked grooves? Or is that very 2000?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[polymod]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
>
> I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> balls. I suspect you can't really get those
> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> best box for this.
>
> I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> Any recommendations?


How about those CDs that contain hip hop loopz?
Just import them into your DAW (if you have one!).

Poly

[hank alrich]

Paul > wrote:

> On May 28, 6:28 pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> > Paul wrote:
> >
> > > I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
> >
> > > drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> > > ALCOHOL!!!!!
> >
> > > TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......
> >
> > I've tried hip-hop. Doesn't keep music very well ;-)
> >
> > geoff
>
>
> Hip Hop makes more money than any other
> music at the moment. If you wanna be in the poor
> house, go ahead! :/

McDonalds sells more burgers than anybody sells steak. Folks who want to
eat crap can go right ahead. <g>

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-29 (ScottDorsey) said:
>Paul > wrote:
>> Hip Hop makes more money than any other
>>music at the moment. If you wanna be in the poor
>>house, go ahead! :/
>But, for some reason the price of the Roland 808 on the used market
>will put you in the poorhouse too.

YEah that it will. I used to use an ALesis d4 drum module
for that, when I had to delve into it, but, I"m with Geoff
on this one. I worried more about being ripped off by the
hangers on and "posse" of the hip hop "artist" than anything
else, and found myself spending too much time on them for
what they paid. I"m just as happy to be doing on site
recording of people hwo actually play, and don't just sample
James Brown or somebody. IF you enjoy working with it, more
power to ya. IT just wasn't a day's work I enjoyed.

>Does anyone still use beat LPs with locked grooves? Or is that
>very 2000?

I've seen a couple of those. I did as well for a couple of
hip hop clients back in the '90's with my drum module and
other midi stuff though. IT just wasn't a fun day's work
for me. I had more fun creating instrumental music and
voice overs for music on hold systems <g>.






Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Chip Borton]

On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:
>
> I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> balls. I suspect you can't really get those
> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> best box for this.
>
> I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> Any recommendations?

Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
apparently he does and just wants a question answered.

If you have Cubase then you most likely have Loopmash
and GrooveAgent. Both are good tools for making beats.
Not sure if those are in the LE version but for sure
exist in the full Cubase and Nuendo expansion kit.
But really, any tool will do.

My opinion is that a hardware module wont do you much
good. Software these days is very good.

Hidden in the comments of the replies you
will also be able to glean some good info.

Yes, you need someone who can really play drums.
Stock loops, no matter how cool, really need to
be layered with real drumming/drum sounds and
other sounds of your own creation. I think that's
the key to a really good sounding groove.

Scott - I have hundreds of instrumental and beat
vinyl LP's but only a couple that are actually
locked groove. Guess I am soooo 20000 ;)

[philicorda[_9_]]

On Sat, 28 May 2011 08:20:27 -0700, Paul wrote:

> I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines in Cubase LE, and they all
> pretty much suck donkey balls. I suspect you can't really get those
> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum machine, so I'm
> wondering what would be a the best box for this.
>
> I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> Any recommendations?

The Zoom SB246 Streetboxx is good. Make sure you get that exact model
though, as Zoom did a few quite similar looking ones!
I don't think many producers use drum machines nowadays though.
It's mostly done in the DAW nowadays, by a combination of loops and
arranging individual samples on the time line. There is a lot of
layering, effects and edits in modern hip hop beats, and you may as well
do in in the computer.

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-29 (hankalrich) said:
<snip>
>> > I've tried hip-hop. Doesn't keep music very well ;-)
>> Hip Hop makes more money than any other
>> music at the moment. If you wanna be in the poor
>> house, go ahead! :/
>McDonalds sells more burgers than anybody sells steak. Folks who
>want to eat crap can go right ahead. <g>

tHis is true, but if money is your goal, and hip hop is how
you wanna make it then don't be a chump spring for the
damned 808 because that's what the customer wants anyway. I
got sounds that were just as good and fit the material with
other drum modules, but customers always want one of those
boxes. If I'm hiring studio time I expect a good sounding
room, possibly a well tuned piano and a decent mic locker.
But, if you're just playing in your back bedroom hoping to
get rich by getting lucky, have fun, and get what you like.
But, if you're producing others and they're handing you
money I"d go ahead and get the box they wanna see.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 29, 8:57*am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> Paul > wrote:
> > On May 28, 6:28 pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> > > Paul wrote:
>
> > > > * * *I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
>
> > > > * * *drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> > > > ALCOHOL!!!!!
>
> > > > * * *TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......
>
> > > I've tried hip-hop. *Doesn't keep music very well ;-)
>
> > > geoff
>
> > * * *Hip Hop makes more money than any other
> > music at the moment. *If you wanna be in the poor
> > house, go ahead! * :/
>
> McDonalds sells more burgers than anybody sells steak. Folks who want to
> eat crap can go right ahead. <g>
>

You clearly don't make a living from music, so I
don't value your judgment anyways.

And steak will clog your arteries just as fast as Micky D's.

I'm in it for the money, bitch! I got's bills to pay!!!

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 29, 10:03*am, Chip Borton > wrote:
> On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:
>
>
>
> > * * *I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> > in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> > balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
> > cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> > machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> > best box for this.
>
> > * * *I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> > * * *Any recommendations?
>
> Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
> level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
> tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
> The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
> apparently he does and just wants a question answered.
>

What these dinosaurs don't understand is that while
Hip hop is certainly not as harmonically complex as Mozart, it
can be rhythmically VERY complex and creative.

Also, Rock and Blues are looked down upon
by the Classical world, so to each their own.



> If you have Cubase then you most likely have Loopmash
> and GrooveAgent. Both are good tools for making beats.
> Not sure if those are in the LE version but for sure
> exist in the full Cubase and Nuendo expansion kit.
> But really, any tool will do.
>
> My opinion is that a hardware module wont do you much
> good. Software these days is very good.
>
> Hidden in the comments of the replies you
> will also be able to glean some good info.
>
> Yes, you need someone who can really play drums.
> Stock loops, no matter how cool, really need to
> be layered with real drumming/drum sounds and
> other sounds of your own creation. I think that's
> the key to a really good sounding groove.
>

Thanks for the advice.....

[hank alrich]

> wrote:

> On 2011-05-29 (hankalrich) said:
> <snip>
> >> > I've tried hip-hop. Doesn't keep music very well ;-)
> >> Hip Hop makes more money than any other
> >> music at the moment. If you wanna be in the poor
> >> house, go ahead! :/
> >McDonalds sells more burgers than anybody sells steak. Folks who
> >want to eat crap can go right ahead. <g>
>
> tHis is true, but if money is your goal, and hip hop is how
> you wanna make it then don't be a chump spring for the
> damned 808 because that's what the customer wants anyway. I
> got sounds that were just as good and fit the material with
> other drum modules, but customers always want one of those
> boxes. If I'm hiring studio time I expect a good sounding
> room, possibly a well tuned piano and a decent mic locker.
> But, if you're just playing in your back bedroom hoping to
> get rich by getting lucky, have fun, and get what you like.
> But, if you're producing others and they're handing you
> money I"d go ahead and get the box they wanna see.

mind you, i have no personal quarrel with hip hop per se.

violence and misogyny i'm not into, so i might have to look pretty hard
to find some i'd like


--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[hank alrich]

Paul > wrote:

> On May 29, 8:57 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > Paul > wrote:
> > > On May 28, 6:28 pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> > > > Paul wrote:
> >
> > > > > I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
> >
> > > > > drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> > > > > ALCOHOL!!!!!
> >
> > > > > TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......
> >
> > > > I've tried hip-hop. Doesn't keep music very well ;-)
> >
> > > > geoff
> >
> > > Hip Hop makes more money than any other
> > > music at the moment. If you wanna be in the poor
> > > house, go ahead! :/
> >
> > McDonalds sells more burgers than anybody sells steak. Folks who want to
> > eat crap can go right ahead. <g>
> >
>
> You clearly don't make a living from music, so I
> don't value your judgment anyways.
>
> And steak will clog your arteries just as fast as Micky D's.
>
> I'm in it for the money, bitch! I got's bills to pay!!!

I'm working pretty much full time in music, Paul. Grassfed organic beef
won't clog your arteries as long as you eat your vegetables. Of course,
you'd have to chew it and that might be too much actual work for a
posturing pseudo macho gangsta.

If you were making a living in hip hop you wouldn't be here asking what
you're asking. You be slammin' the beats. Me, I'll take the beets,
please.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[hank alrich]

Paul > wrote:

> On May 29, 10:03 am, Chip Borton > wrote:
> > On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> > > in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> > > balls. I suspect you can't really get those
> > > cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> > > machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> > > best box for this.
> >
> > > I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
> >
> > > Any recommendations?
> >
> > Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
> > level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
> > tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
> > The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
> > apparently he does and just wants a question answered.
> >
>
> What these dinosaurs don't understand is that while
> Hip hop is certainly not as harmonically complex as Mozart, it
> can be rhythmically VERY complex and creative.

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/hiphop/film.htm

"Filmmaker Byron Hurt, a life-long hip-hop fan, was watching rap music
videos on BET when he realized that each video was nearly identical.
Guys in fancy cars threw money at the camera while scantily clad women
danced in the background. As he discovered how stereotypical rap videos
had become, Hurt, a former college quarterback turned activist, decided
to make a film about the gender politics of hip-hop, the music and the
culture that he grew up with."


> Also, Rock and Blues are looked down upon
> by the Classical world, so to each their own.
>
>
>
> > If you have Cubase then you most likely have Loopmash
> > and GrooveAgent. Both are good tools for making beats.
> > Not sure if those are in the LE version but for sure
> > exist in the full Cubase and Nuendo expansion kit.
> > But really, any tool will do.
> >
> > My opinion is that a hardware module wont do you much
> > good. Software these days is very good.
> >
> > Hidden in the comments of the replies you
> > will also be able to glean some good info.
> >
> > Yes, you need someone who can really play drums.
> > Stock loops, no matter how cool, really need to
> > be layered with real drumming/drum sounds and
> > other sounds of your own creation. I think that's
> > the key to a really good sounding groove.
> >
>
> Thanks for the advice.....


--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[John Williamson]

wrote:
> On 2011-05-29 (ScottDorsey) said:
> >Does anyone still use beat LPs with locked grooves? Or is that
> >very 2000?
>
> I've seen a couple of those. I did as well for a couple of
> hip hop clients back in the '90's with my drum module and
> other midi stuff though. IT just wasn't a fun day's work
> for me. I had more fun creating instrumental music and
> voice overs for music on hold systems <g>.
>
And there I was, thinking you were a pleasant sort of guy. <Grin>
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-29 (hankalrich) said:
<snip>
>> But, if you're producing others and they're handing you
>> money I'd go ahead and get the box they wanna see.
>mind you, i have no personal quarrel with hip hop per se.
>violence and misogyny i'm not into, so i might have to look pretty
>hard to find some i'd like
THat's me, and the layered rhythms don't give me that much
of a problem, but the whole easthetic just doesn't do
anything for me. VIolence narcissism don't do much for me.
I'd rather listen to human musicians make music together.
Did a bit of it at a small studio I worked for in the
midwest, and created "beats" for some folks doing that
stuff, but it just doesn't grab me.






Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[[email protected]]

John writes:
>> I had more fun creating instrumental music and
>> voice overs for music on hold systems <g>.
>And there I was, thinking you were a pleasant sort of guy. <Grin>

<rotflmao> Anything to make a buck. Pablum milquetoast
psuedo jazz helped keep body and soul together <g>.


But, I recovered, and don't go to places like that anymore
<g>.



Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[geoff]

Paul wrote:

> I'm in it for the money, bitch! I got's bills to pay!!!

Aiming for the wrong clientelle then, in my expereince at least. Worst
payers of all ( or is that 'best non-payers' ?).

geoff

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

hank alrich wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> On May 29, 10:03 am, Chip > wrote:
>>> On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
>>>> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
>>>> balls. I suspect you can't really get those
>>>> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
>>>> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
>>>> best box for this.
>>>
>>>> I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>>>
>>>> Any recommendations?
>>>
>>> Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
>>> level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
>>> tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
>>> The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
>>> apparently he does and just wants a question answered.
>>>
>>
>> What these dinosaurs don't understand is that while
>> Hip hop is certainly not as harmonically complex as Mozart, it
>> can be rhythmically VERY complex and creative.
>
> http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/hiphop/film.htm
>
> "Filmmaker Byron Hurt, a life-long hip-hop fan, was watching rap music
> videos on BET when he realized that each video was nearly identical.
> Guys in fancy cars threw money at the camera while scantily clad women
> danced in the background. As he discovered how stereotypical rap videos
> had become, Hurt, a former college quarterback turned activist, decided
> to make a film about the gender politics of hip-hop, the music and the
> culture that he grew up with."
>
>

+2 for Byron Hurt. Excellent film.

<snip>
--
Les Cargill

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 29, 1:03*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
> Paul > wrote:
> > On May 29, 8:57 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > > Paul > wrote:
> > > > On May 28, 6:28 pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> > > > > Paul wrote:
>
> > > > > > * * *I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
>
> > > > > > * * *drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> > > > > > ALCOHOL!!!!!
>
> > > > > > * * *TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......
>
> > > > > I've tried hip-hop. *Doesn't keep music very well ;-)
>
> > > > > geoff
>
> > > > * * *Hip Hop makes more money than any other
> > > > music at the moment. *If you wanna be in the poor
> > > > house, go ahead! * :/
>
> > > McDonalds sells more burgers than anybody sells steak. Folks who want to
> > > eat crap can go right ahead. <g>
>
> > * * *You clearly don't make a living from music, so I
> > don't value your judgment anyways.
>
> > * * *And steak will clog your arteries just as fast as Micky D's.
>
> > * * *I'm in it for the money, bitch! * I got's bills to pay!!!
>
> I'm working pretty much full time in music, Paul. Grassfed organic beef
> won't clog your arteries as long as you eat your vegetables. Of course,
> you'd have to chew it and that might be too much actual work for a
> posturing pseudo macho gangsta.
>
> If you were making a living in hip hop you wouldn't be here asking what
> you're asking. You be slammin' the beats. Me, I'll take the beets,
> please.
>

Full time because you are retired, Grandpa? Then
what you actually bring in don't matter much, eh? LOL!

I would LIKE to make some real money with Hip Hop,
because it sure as Hell sells more than ancient bluegrass!

And no, I wouldn't write about narcissistic misogyny...

To each, their own......

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 29, 2:45*pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> > * * *I'm in it for the money, bitch! * I got's bills to pay!!!
>
> Aiming for the wrong clientelle then, in my expereince at least. *Worst
> payers of all ( or is that 'best non-payers' ?).
>
> geoff


What dreamland are you living in? Last I heard what music
people play most often, it was and is Hip Hop......

[Scott Dorsey]

hank alrich > wrote:
>
>mind you, i have no personal quarrel with hip hop per se.
>
>violence and misogyny i'm not into, so i might have to look pretty hard
>to find some i'd like

Look at some of the earlier stuff on Eight Ball Records; they really seemed
to have some sense of flow and not just a beat.

Personally I can't stand most hip hop in general, and on top of that I
really don't "get" it. I won't cut hip hop LPs, and sadly that puts a
big dent in the cutting business, but frankly I don't want to work on
music I don't really understand.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff > wrote:
>Paul wrote:
>
>> I'm in it for the money, bitch! I got's bills to pay!!!
>
>Aiming for the wrong clientelle then, in my expereince at least. Worst
>payers of all ( or is that 'best non-payers' ?).

No, that would be the Christian Rock folks, ironically enough.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[hank alrich]

Paul > wrote:

> On May 29, 1:03 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > Paul > wrote:
> > > On May 29, 8:57 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > > > Paul > wrote:
> > > > > On May 28, 6:28 pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> > > > > > Paul wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
> >
> > > > > > > drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> > > > > > > ALCOHOL!!!!!
> >
> > > > > > > TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......
> >
> > > > > > I've tried hip-hop. Doesn't keep music very well ;-)
> >
> > > > > > geoff
> >
> > > > > Hip Hop makes more money than any other
> > > > > music at the moment. If you wanna be in the poor
> > > > > house, go ahead! :/
> >
> > > > McDonalds sells more burgers than anybody sells steak. Folks who want to
> > > > eat crap can go right ahead. <g>
> >
> > > You clearly don't make a living from music, so I
> > > don't value your judgment anyways.
> >
> > > And steak will clog your arteries just as fast as Micky D's.
> >
> > > I'm in it for the money, bitch! I got's bills to pay!!!
> >
> > I'm working pretty much full time in music, Paul. Grassfed organic beef
> > won't clog your arteries as long as you eat your vegetables. Of course,
> > you'd have to chew it and that might be too much actual work for a
> > posturing pseudo macho gangsta.
> >
> > If you were making a living in hip hop you wouldn't be here asking what
> > you're asking. You be slammin' the beats. Me, I'll take the beets,
> > please.
> >
>
> Full time because you are retired, Grandpa?

Not retired. Been mostly doing music since high school.

> Then
> what you actually bring in don't matter much, eh? LOL!
>
> I would LIKE to make some real money with Hip Hop,
> because it sure as Hell sells more than ancient bluegrass!
>
> And no, I wouldn't write about narcissistic misogyny...
>
> To each, their own......

Yep. Good luck. You're gonna need it. Now get to those bad beats.

WTF, you act like you're some big hip hop deal but you don;t know ****
about the technology. Cool. Plenty to learn there.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[hank alrich]

Paul > wrote:

> On May 29, 2:45 pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> > Paul wrote:
> > > I'm in it for the money, bitch! I got's bills to pay!!!
> >
> > Aiming for the wrong clientelle then, in my expereince at least. Worst
> > payers of all ( or is that 'best non-payers' ?).
> >
> > geoff
>
>
> What dreamland are you living in? Last I heard what music
> people play most often, it was and is Hip Hop......

Paly ain't pay.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 7:45*am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> Paul > wrote:
> > On May 29, 1:03 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > > Paul > wrote:
> > > > On May 29, 8:57 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > > > > Paul > wrote:
> > > > > > On May 28, 6:28 pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> > > > > > > Paul wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > * * *I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
>
> > > > > > > > * * *drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> > > > > > > > ALCOHOL!!!!!
>
> > > > > > > > * * *TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......
>
> > > > > > > I've tried hip-hop. *Doesn't keep music very well ;-)
>
> > > > > > > geoff
>
> > > > > > * * *Hip Hop makes more money than any other
> > > > > > music at the moment. *If you wanna be in the poor
> > > > > > house, go ahead! * :/
>
> > > > > McDonalds sells more burgers than anybody sells steak. Folks who want to
> > > > > eat crap can go right ahead. <g>
>
> > > > * * *You clearly don't make a living from music, so I
> > > > don't value your judgment anyways.
>
> > > > * * *And steak will clog your arteries just as fast as Micky D's.
>
> > > > * * *I'm in it for the money, bitch! * I got's bills to pay!!!
>
> > > I'm working pretty much full time in music, Paul. Grassfed organic beef
> > > won't clog your arteries as long as you eat your vegetables. Of course,
> > > you'd have to chew it and that might be too much actual work for a
> > > posturing pseudo macho gangsta.
>
> > > If you were making a living in hip hop you wouldn't be here asking what
> > > you're asking. You be slammin' the beats. Me, I'll take the beets,
> > > please.
>
> > * * *Full time because you are retired, Grandpa?
>
> Not retired. Been mostly doing music since high school.
>
> > Then
> > what you actually bring in don't matter much, eh? *LOL!
>
> > * * *I would LIKE to make some real money with Hip Hop,
> > because it sure as Hell sells more than ancient bluegrass!
>
> > * * *And no, I wouldn't write about *narcissistic misogyny...
>
> > * * *To each, their own......
>
> Yep. Good luck. You're gonna need it. Now get to those bad beats.
>
> WTF, you act like you're some big hip hop deal but you don;t know ****
> about the technology. Cool. Plenty to learn there.
>

WTF yourself! Where did I say I was a big deal?

Get off your highhorse, Grandpa. YOU are the one acting
like you are some sort of big music act, but you ain't ****.

Time to change your diapers, old man.

[rakman]

On May 28, 4:20*pm, Paul > wrote:
> * * I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> best box for this.
>
> * * I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> * * Any recommendations?

YAWN at the predictable response from this group.
But a "drum machine"? How about building up a
kick/snare/clap (etc) sample library then treating the sounds
with plugins instead? Or.. for a more instant result you could buy
a second hand MPC with the person's sample library included.

[hank alrich]

Paul > wrote:

> On May 30, 7:45 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > Paul > wrote:
> > > On May 29, 1:03 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > > > Paul > wrote:
> > > > > On May 29, 8:57 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > > > > > Paul > wrote:
> > > > > > > On May 28, 6:28 pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Paul wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > > I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
> >
> > > > > > > > > drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> > > > > > > > > ALCOHOL!!!!!
> >
> > > > > > > > > TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......
> >
> > > > > > > > I've tried hip-hop. Doesn't keep music very well ;-)
> >
> > > > > > > > geoff
> >
> > > > > > > Hip Hop makes more money than any other
> > > > > > > music at the moment. If you wanna be in the poor
> > > > > > > house, go ahead! :/
> >
> > > > > > McDonalds sells more burgers than anybody sells steak. Folks who
> > > > > > want to eat crap can go right ahead. <g>
> >
> > > > > You clearly don't make a living from music, so I
> > > > > don't value your judgment anyways.
> >
> > > > > And steak will clog your arteries just as fast as Micky D's.
> >
> > > > > I'm in it for the money, bitch! I got's bills to pay!!!
> >
> > > > I'm working pretty much full time in music, Paul. Grassfed organic beef
> > > > won't clog your arteries as long as you eat your vegetables. Of course,
> > > > you'd have to chew it and that might be too much actual work for a
> > > > posturing pseudo macho gangsta.
> >
> > > > If you were making a living in hip hop you wouldn't be here asking what
> > > > you're asking. You be slammin' the beats. Me, I'll take the beets,
> > > > please.
> >
> > > Full time because you are retired, Grandpa?
> >
> > Not retired. Been mostly doing music since high school.
> >
> > > Then
> > > what you actually bring in don't matter much, eh? LOL!
> >
> > > I would LIKE to make some real money with Hip Hop,
> > > because it sure as Hell sells more than ancient bluegrass!
> >
> > > And no, I wouldn't write about narcissistic misogyny...
> >
> > > To each, their own......
> >
> > Yep. Good luck. You're gonna need it. Now get to those bad beats.
> >
> > WTF, you act like you're some big hip hop deal but you don;t know ****
> > about the technology. Cool. Plenty to learn there.
> >
>
> WTF yourself! Where did I say I was a big deal?
>
> Get off your highhorse, Grandpa. YOU are the one acting
> like you are some sort of big music act, but you ain't ****.
>
> Time to change your diapers, old man.

Ain't wearing diapers. Aren't you supposed to be working the beats and
rakin;' in the money?

I've never been a big deal and don't plan to be. However, if I wanted to
put some beats together I wouldn't have to be asking how to do that.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-30 (ScottDorsey) said:

>Personally I can't stand most hip hop in general, and on top of
>that I really don't "get" it. I won't cut hip hop LPs, and sadly
>that puts a big dent in the cutting business, but frankly I don't
>want to work on music I don't really understand.

That's the most important, I haven't found myself in a
position where I could even grow to like most of it, and
believe me, 15 or so years ago I gave it an honest try when
I was working with some wanna be hip hop artists. I don't
provide services for folks doing karaoke either. But I will
say this for the hip hop folks, they're at least trying to
do something original, if nothing else in their own frames
of reference. I can watch levels and place microphones, all
the usual stuff, and endeavor to help you get a good product
out the door, but part of helping you achieve what you want
is understanding what you're doing, and having an
appreciation for it, which I just can't seem to develop.
Jaz, bluegrass, or even forms of metal, I can understand
what you're going for and help you get it. I find most hip
hop derivative and not that original, nor even pleasant to
listen to, so I"m the wrong guy to ask to produce the
sessions.

Since Paul wants to produce himself getting tools he's
comfortable with using is the first step, then any tuning of
the room he's going to be using to produce it, a good
monitoring chain, etc. I just don't know if another
newsgroup would net him more answers than this one. A lot
of the folks I read regularly in this newsgroup are doing
stuff other than hip hop, so the closest we can get is to
tell him to try on different things. IT's a pretty isolated
world working in your back room by yourself, and I don't
even have a clue if the great hip hop beatmasters have a
newsgroup where they discuss the best way to cut up other
peoples' productions to get their "beats" so can't steer him
to it.

But, they tell me cubase is a fairly full featured daw, so
he ought to be able to slice and dice what he wants into
loops etc. with it.



>--scott
>--
>"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-30 (ScottDorsey) said:
>>Aiming for the wrong clientelle then, in my expereince at least.
>>Worst payers of all ( or is that 'best non-payers' ?).
>No, that would be the Christian Rock folks, ironically enough.

I"m with Scott on this one as well. I've had more
collection troubles with those folks than anyone else,
whether it be for sound reinforcement services or studio
work.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-30 said:
>YAWN at the predictable response from this group.
>But a "drum machine"? How about building up a
>kick/snare/clap (etc) sample library then treating the sounds
>with plugins instead? Or.. for a more instant result you could buy
>a second hand MPC with the person's sample library included.

There's a possible route for Paul. I suggested the old
Alesis d4 if he can find one, I used one, and an old hr-16
as just a sound generator and used my midi sequencer of
choice to drive it. Between those two I got a wide variety
of drum sounds that didn't give me the total gag response as
many of the ROland drum brains do. the Alesis products of
that vintage had a wide pallet (spelling) to work from. the
ROland brains are more popular for what he wants to do
however.

Most of the regulars here who are knowledgeable don't do
much in that area it seems, and the guys hwo do are no doubt
rather individualistic in the way they work. tHose who
don't have the 808's etc. slice and dice samples of them to
get waht they're after I"m sure. Those I talk to who are
really into it pride themselves on that. Paul's problem
isn't the tool he wishes to use, it's that he hasn't totally
delved into getting what he wants from it. HIs answer may
well be a sampler such as is quoted above, or a good midi
drum brain if he's midi conversant, which I"ll bet he is.



Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[polymod]

"rakman" > wrote in message
...
On May 28, 4:20 pm, Paul > wrote:
> I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> balls. I suspect you can't really get those
> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> best box for this.
>
> I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> Any recommendations?

>YAWN at the predictable response from this group.
>But a "drum machine"? How about building up a
>kick/snare/clap (etc) sample library then treating the sounds
>with plugins instead? Or.. for a more instant result you could buy
>a second hand MPC with the person's sample library included.

In essence, that's what I had recommended in my earlier post.
Why limit yourself to a 'drum machine' whith all the samples available.

Poly

[rakman]

On May 30, 5:45*pm, wrote:
> On 2011-05-30 said:
> * *>YAWN at the predictable response from this group.
> * *>But a "drum machine"? How about building up a
> * *>kick/snare/clap (etc) sample library then treating the sounds
> * *>with plugins instead? Or.. for a more instant result you could buy
> * *>a second hand MPC with the person's sample library included.
>
> There's a possible route for Paul. *I suggested the old
> Alesis d4 if he can find one, I used one, and an old hr-16
> as just a sound generator and used my midi sequencer of
> choice to drive it. *Between those two I got a wide variety
> of drum sounds that didn't give me the total gag response as
> many of the ROland drum brains do. *the Alesis products of
> that vintage had a wide pallet (spelling) to work from. *the
> ROland brains are more popular for what he wants to do
> however.
>
> Most of the regulars here who are knowledgeable don't do
> much in that area it seems, and the guys hwo do are no doubt
> rather individualistic in the way they work. *tHose who
> don't have the 808's etc. slice and dice samples of them to
> get waht they're after I"m sure. *Those I talk to who are
> really into it pride themselves on that. *Paul's problem
> isn't the tool he wishes to use, it's that he hasn't totally
> delved into getting what he wants from it. *HIs answer may
> well be a sampler such as is quoted above, or a good midi
> drum brain if he's midi conversant, which I"ll bet he is.
>
> Richard webb,
>
> replace anything before at with elspider
> ON site audio in the southland: seewww.gatasound.com

A good engineer could probably get a fat
hip hop sound out of those Alesis drum
machines after a lot of heavy treatment, layering
multiple drum hits, applying eq, compression, transient designers,
low-fi plugins maybe something like the Waves SSL, parallel
compression, buss compression and whatnot. But
they do NOT give you a hip hop drum sound straight
out the box. Nowhere near it.

[geoff]

Paul wrote:
> On May 29, 2:45 pm, "geoff" > wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>> I'm in it for the money, bitch! I got's bills to pay!!!
>>
>> Aiming for the wrong clientelle then, in my expereince at least.
>> Worst payers of all ( or is that 'best non-payers' ?).
>>
>> geoff
>
>
> What dreamland are you living in? Last I heard what music
> people play most often, it was and is Hip Hop......

I guess that shows the type of people you mix with then.

I hope that aiding and abetting it gives you artistic satisfaction (and
heaps of $$$ of course. Hope you dpon't get mugged in the process.

geoff

[geoff]

wrote:
> On 2011-05-30 said:
> >YAWN at the predictable response from this group.
> >But a "drum machine"? How about building up a
> >kick/snare/clap (etc) sample library then treating the sounds
> >with plugins instead? Or.. for a more instant result you could buy
> >a second hand MPC with the person's sample library included.
>
> There's a possible route for Paul. I suggested the old
> Alesis d4 if he can find one,

No. Somebody has to trigger it, and that person would be unreliable
time-wise as we've heard.

I would also love to find a product for <$500 that ensured heaps of money
rolling in indefinitely....

geoff

[geoff]

geoff wrote:
> wrote:
>> On 2011-05-30 said:
>> >YAWN at the predictable response from this group.
>> >But a "drum machine"? How about building up a
>> >kick/snare/clap (etc) sample library then treating the sounds
>> >with plugins instead? Or.. for a more instant result you could buy
>> >a second hand MPC with the person's sample library included.
>>
>> There's a possible route for Paul. I suggested the old
>> Alesis d4 if he can find one,
>
> No. Somebody has to trigger it, and that person would be unreliable
> time-wise as we've heard.
>
> I would also love to find a product for <$500 that ensured heaps of
> money rolling in indefinitely....
>
> geoff

Oh yeah, the Alesis D4 ( mine at least) screams out all sorts of crap above
8KHz constantly. Unless I turn it off.

geoff

[Sean Conolly]

"Chip Borton" > wrote in message
...
> On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:
>>
>> I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
>> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
>> balls. I suspect you can't really get those
>> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
>> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
>> best box for this.
>>
>> I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>>
>> Any recommendations?
>
> Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
> level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
> tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
> The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
> apparently he does and just wants a question answered.

I think you misunderstood what people were writing. What I got from reading
all the threads was:

Most of the responders don't enjoy hip-hop, and several disqualified
themselve as being useful for hip-hop production for that very reason. If
you don't understand or appreciate the genre, (like myself) then you're
better off staying away from it. Don't waste your time, and the client's
money, trying to do something that you're not good at, or just don't enjoy.

Several people commented on the difficulty of dealing with the clients or
getting paid by hip-hop clients. Given the previous point, it's possibly a
lopsided view: maybe some of the clients are more difficult because they're
not getting what they want from people who don't understand the style.

The point about hip-hop being the best selling music, although accurate,
isn't relevant unless you're the one getting paid. For the artist, producer,
publisher & record label this may be true, but it doesn't always extend to
more or better paying business for a production facility. My opinion from
the Atlanta area is that a bigger market has also produced a huge number of
clueless-idiot get-rich-quick wannabe "producers", and a fairly large number
of bottom-feeder crap "facilities" to take their money. More power to them
that want to compete in that area, but I don't have a lot of patience for
fools, with or without money.

I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se, although I did see some age
discrimination from the OP. Age brings wisdom, about things like actually
making money in this business. Real world, firsthand experience from people
who have spent years working in this field as a career - that's what I come
to this group for.

Oh, and for the OP (Paul) - why do want to jump from freebie samples to a
$500 box? $500 can buy way, way more samples than any box comes with. These
guys produce some very good stuff in other genres, see if their hip-hop is
just as good:
http://www.soundsonline.com/Urban-Legend

Sean

[rakman]

On May 30, 10:18*pm, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:

> I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se,

Lmao. If hip hop would just start using live drums,
get rid of the rap, get rid of softsynths and digital
keyboards, get rid of samples, get rid of auto-tune,
change all the lyrics, use traditional blues/rock,
country or jazz melodies,
go back to analog tape, stop dressing like thugs,
eliminate all pointless stuff like battles or flirting in clubs
etc.. then some of the posters responding to this thread
might be willing to accept hip hop,
but then again maybe not :)

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 8:56*am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> Paul > wrote:
> > On May 30, 7:45 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > > Paul > wrote:
> > > > On May 29, 1:03 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > > > > Paul > wrote:
> > > > > > On May 29, 8:57 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > > > > > > Paul > wrote:
> > > > > > > > On May 28, 6:28 pm, "geoff" > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Paul wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > * * *I've tried the humans, they don't keep time very well!
>
> > > > > > > > > > * * *drifting tempos, excessive drum fills, and TOO MUCH
> > > > > > > > > > ALCOHOL!!!!!
>
> > > > > > > > > > * * *TIME TO GIVE A MACHINE A TRY.......
>
> > > > > > > > > I've tried hip-hop. *Doesn't keep music very well ;-)
>
> > > > > > > > > geoff
>
> > > > > > > > * * *Hip Hop makes more money than any other
> > > > > > > > music at the moment. *If you wanna be in the poor
> > > > > > > > house, go ahead! * :/
>
> > > > > > > McDonalds sells more burgers than anybody sells steak. Folks who
> > > > > > > want to eat crap can go right ahead. <g>
>
> > > > > > * * *You clearly don't make a living from music, so I
> > > > > > don't value your judgment anyways.
>
> > > > > > * * *And steak will clog your arteries just as fast as Micky D's.
>
> > > > > > * * *I'm in it for the money, bitch! * I got's bills to pay!!!
>
> > > > > I'm working pretty much full time in music, Paul. Grassfed organic beef
> > > > > won't clog your arteries as long as you eat your vegetables. Of course,
> > > > > you'd have to chew it and that might be too much actual work for a
> > > > > posturing pseudo macho gangsta.
>
> > > > > If you were making a living in hip hop you wouldn't be here asking what
> > > > > you're asking. You be slammin' the beats. Me, I'll take the beets,
> > > > > please.
>
> > > > * * *Full time because you are retired, Grandpa?
>
> > > Not retired. Been mostly doing music since high school.
>
> > > > Then
> > > > what you actually bring in don't matter much, eh? *LOL!
>
> > > > * * *I would LIKE to make some real money with Hip Hop,
> > > > because it sure as Hell sells more than ancient bluegrass!
>
> > > > * * *And no, I wouldn't write about *narcissistic misogyny....
>
> > > > * * *To each, their own......
>
> > > Yep. Good luck. You're gonna need it. Now get to those bad beats.
>
> > > WTF, you act like you're some big hip hop deal but you don;t know ****
> > > about the technology. Cool. Plenty to learn there.
>
> > * * * WTF yourself! * Where did I say I was a big deal?
>
> > * * * Get off your highhorse, Grandpa. *YOU are the one acting
> > like you are some sort of big music act, but you ain't ****.
>
> > * * * Time to change your diapers, old man.
>
> Ain't wearing diapers. Aren't you supposed to be working the beats and
> rakin;' in the money?
>
> I've never been a big deal and don't plan to be. However, if I wanted to
> put some beats together I wouldn't have to be asking how to do that.
>

You don't know ****. You don't even like Hip Hop, like
most close-minded old folks, and that's why you have been
zero help to me.

Keep playing your backwoods, red-neck Hick music to
your in-bred family......Weren't you that bald kid in "Deliverance"?

[rakman]

On May 30, 2:23*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> geoff > wrote:
> >Paul wrote:
>
> >> * * *I'm in it for the money, bitch! * I got's bills to pay!!!
>
> >Aiming for the wrong clientelle then, in my expereince at least. *Worst
> >payers of all ( or is that 'best non-payers' ?).
>
> No, that would be the Christian Rock folks, ironically enough.
> --scott

Lol. Nothing ironic about that. The weaker a person
is, morally, the more they need religion to babysit
them and give them simple rules to follow/break.

[hank alrich]

Paul > wrote:

> You don't know ****. You don't even like Hip Hop, like
> most close-minded old folks, and that's why you have been
> zero help to me.
>
> Keep playing your backwoods, red-neck Hick music to
> your in-bred family......Weren't you that bald kid in "Deliverance"?

Try harder prick lips. You haven't a clue. See if you can figure out how
a drum machine works.

I know ****. It's you.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[hank alrich]

rakman > wrote:

> On May 30, 10:18 pm, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:
>
> > I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se,
>
> Lmao. If hip hop would just start using live drums,
> get rid of the rap, get rid of softsynths and digital
> keyboards, get rid of samples, get rid of auto-tune,
> change all the lyrics, use traditional blues/rock,
> country or jazz melodies,
> go back to analog tape, stop dressing like thugs,
> eliminate all pointless stuff like battles or flirting in clubs
> etc.. then some of the posters responding to this thread
> might be willing to accept hip hop,
> but then again maybe not :)

I don't care how it's made. I care about content. So does the guy who
made that film, and he a in't an old white guy, either. He's a hip hop
fan. Violence and misogny are part of what's wrong with this world, and
hip hop is loaded with it.

Here it is again:

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/hiphop/film.htm

I figure L'il DJ Paul gonna strut his bad stuff just as if he had a
dick. He gonna kick women to the curb just like he knew any women. He
gonna get his superbad self a Cadillac in no time at all with his heavy
****. Then he gonna get his mama wipe his ass 'cause he can't find it.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 3:33*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
> Paul > wrote:
> > * * *You don't know ****. *You don't even like Hip Hop, like
> > most close-minded old folks, and that's why you have been
> > zero help to me.
>
> > * * * Keep playing your backwoods, red-neck Hick music to
> > your in-bred family......Weren't you that bald kid in "Deliverance"?
>
> Try harder prick lips. You haven't a clue. See if you can figure out how
> a drum machine works.
>
> I know ****. It's you.
>

You only think you know everything, ****-wit.

I found a video of you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLN3QoN-q8

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
>,
Paul > wrote:

> On May 30, 3:33*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > Paul > wrote:
> > > * * *You don't know ****. *You don't even like Hip Hop, like
> > > most close-minded old folks, and that's why you have been
> > > zero help to me.
> >
> > > * * * Keep playing your backwoods, red-neck Hick music to
> > > your in-bred family......Weren't you that bald kid in "Deliverance"?
> >
> > Try harder prick lips. You haven't a clue. See if you can figure out how
> > a drum machine works.
> >
> > I know ****. It's you.
> >
>
> You only think you know everything, ****-wit.
>
> I found a video of you:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLN3QoN-q8

Just curious Paul: are you a musician?

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[rakman]

On May 30, 11:33*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:

> I don't care how it's made. I care about content. So does the guy who
> made that film, and he a in't an old white guy, either. He's a hip hop
> fan. Violence and misogny are part of what's wrong with this world, and
> hip hop is loaded with it.

Yeah I've banned jazz solos in my house because
of all the heroin. Especially bebop sax.

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-30 said:
<snip>
>> There's a possible route for Paul. ÿI suggested the old
>> Alesis d4 if he can find one, I used one, and an old hr-16
>> as just a sound generator and used my midi sequencer of
>> choice to drive it. ÿBetween those two I got a wide variety
>> of drum sounds that didn't give me the total gag response as
>> many of the ROland drum brains do. ÿthe Alesis products of
<snip>
>A good engineer could probably get a fat
>hip hop sound out of those Alesis drum
>machines after a lot of heavy treatment, layering
>multiple drum hits, applying eq, compression, transient designers,
>low-fi plugins maybe something like the Waves SSL, parallel
>compression, buss compression and whatnot. But
>they do NOT give you a hip hop drum sound straight
>out the box. Nowhere near it.

YEp, used a lot of compression, various verbs, and the hip
hop folks I worked with also had some samplers. That wasn't
the world I regularly inhabited even then, jingles, ambience
music, songwriter demos were more my thing back then. fOr
the wide variety of stuff I did the Alesis was a good all
rounder, but you're right I did need to do a lot of
processing. I didn't enjoy the work or the sounds I got,
but was working for somebody else where I got exposed to hh
projects. DOn't miss not having to listen to it living out
here in the boonies <g>.



Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-30 said:
>> There's a possible route for Paul. I suggested the old
>> Alesis d4 if he can find one,
>No. Somebody has to trigger it, and that person would be unreliable
>time-wise as we've heard.

<laugh> I triggered mine with mid mostly, but every now and
then when I worked with a drummer who used triggered sounds
onstage I'd hook his triggers up.

Noted your constant 8k too, think I did the telescoping
shield thing to get rid of some of that, and if doing a
combination of midi and live instruments always muted the
electronics' tracks when not in use to minimize some of
that.




Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 2:18*pm, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:
> "Chip Borton" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:
>
> >> * * *I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> >> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> >> balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
> >> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> >> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> >> best box for this.
>
> >> * * *I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> >> * * *Any recommendations?
>
> > Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
> > level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
> > tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
> > The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
> > apparently he does and just wants a question answered.
>
> I think you misunderstood what people were writing. What I got from reading
> all the threads was:
>
> Most of the responders don't enjoy hip-hop, and several disqualified
> themselve as being useful for hip-hop production for that very reason. If
> you don't understand or appreciate the genre, (like myself) then you're
> better off staying away from it. Don't waste your time, and the client's
> money, trying to do something that you're not good at, or just don't enjoy.
>
> Several people commented on the difficulty of dealing with the clients or
> getting paid by hip-hop clients. Given the previous point, it's possibly a
> lopsided view: maybe some of the clients are more difficult because they're
> not getting what they want from people who don't understand the style.
>
> The point about hip-hop being the best selling music, although accurate,
> isn't relevant unless you're the one getting paid. For the artist, producer,
> publisher & record label this may be true, but it doesn't always extend to
> more or better paying business for a production facility. My opinion from
> the Atlanta area is that a bigger market has also produced a huge number of
> clueless-idiot get-rich-quick wannabe "producers", and a fairly large number
> of bottom-feeder crap "facilities" to take their money. More power to them
> that want to compete in that area, but I don't have a lot of patience for
> fools, with or without money.
>
> I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se, although I did see some age
> discrimination from the OP. Age brings wisdom, about things like actually
> making money in this business. Real world, firsthand experience from people
> who have spent years working in this field as a career - that's what I come
> to this group for.
>
> Oh, and for the OP (Paul) - why do want to jump from freebie samples to a
> $500 box? $500 can buy way, way more samples than any box comes with. These
> guys produce some very good stuff in other genres, see if their hip-hop is
> just as good:http://www.soundsonline.com/Urban-Legend
>
> Sean


Ok, that seems to be a good idea.

When you buy samples like this, are they
compatible with both Protools and Cubase? Is it
easy to modify the drum loops, like where the snare
hit or high-hat's occur? I'm assuming you do all the
modifications in the track time-lines. I imagine when
you open up a drum loop, that they would have all the
different sounds (bass drum, snare, etc) all set up on
their own individual tracks that you can modify, right?

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 3:48*pm, Paul > wrote:
> On May 30, 2:18*pm, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Chip Borton" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:
>
> > >> * * *I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> > >> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> > >> balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
> > >> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> > >> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> > >> best box for this.
>
> > >> * * *I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> > >> * * *Any recommendations?
>
> > > Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
> > > level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
> > > tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
> > > The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
> > > apparently he does and just wants a question answered.
>
> > I think you misunderstood what people were writing. What I got from reading
> > all the threads was:
>
> > Most of the responders don't enjoy hip-hop, and several disqualified
> > themselve as being useful for hip-hop production for that very reason. If
> > you don't understand or appreciate the genre, (like myself) then you're
> > better off staying away from it. Don't waste your time, and the client's
> > money, trying to do something that you're not good at, or just don't enjoy.
>
> > Several people commented on the difficulty of dealing with the clients or
> > getting paid by hip-hop clients. Given the previous point, it's possibly a
> > lopsided view: maybe some of the clients are more difficult because they're
> > not getting what they want from people who don't understand the style.
>
> > The point about hip-hop being the best selling music, although accurate,
> > isn't relevant unless you're the one getting paid. For the artist, producer,
> > publisher & record label this may be true, but it doesn't always extend to
> > more or better paying business for a production facility. My opinion from
> > the Atlanta area is that a bigger market has also produced a huge number of
> > clueless-idiot get-rich-quick wannabe "producers", and a fairly large number
> > of bottom-feeder crap "facilities" to take their money. More power to them
> > that want to compete in that area, but I don't have a lot of patience for
> > fools, with or without money.
>
> > I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se, although I did see some age
> > discrimination from the OP. Age brings wisdom, about things like actually
> > making money in this business. Real world, firsthand experience from people
> > who have spent years working in this field as a career - that's what I come
> > to this group for.
>
> > Oh, and for the OP (Paul) - why do want to jump from freebie samples to a
> > $500 box? $500 can buy way, way more samples than any box comes with. These
> > guys produce some very good stuff in other genres, see if their hip-hop is
> > just as good:http://www.soundsonline.com/Urban-Legend
>
> > Sean
>
> * * *Ok, that seems to be a good idea.
>
> * * *When you buy samples like this, are they
> compatible with both Protools and Cubase? *Is it
> easy to modify the drum loops, like where the snare
> hit or high-hat's occur? *I'm assuming you do all the
> modifications in the track time-lines. * I imagine when
> you open up a drum loop, that they would have all the
> different sounds (bass drum, snare, etc) all set up on
> their own individual tracks that you can modify, right?

In other words, I assume these sample packages
are NOT like this program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwAHIDicQ3k&feature=pyv&ad=8476508850&kw=beat%20make

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 4:20*pm, Paul > wrote:
> On May 30, 3:48*pm, Paul > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 30, 2:18*pm, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:
>
> > > "Chip Borton" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
>
> > > > On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:
>
> > > >> * * *I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> > > >> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> > > >> balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
> > > >> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> > > >> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> > > >> best box for this.
>
> > > >> * * *I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>
> > > >> * * *Any recommendations?
>
> > > > Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
> > > > level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
> > > > tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
> > > > The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
> > > > apparently he does and just wants a question answered.
>
> > > I think you misunderstood what people were writing. What I got from reading
> > > all the threads was:
>
> > > Most of the responders don't enjoy hip-hop, and several disqualified
> > > themselve as being useful for hip-hop production for that very reason.. If
> > > you don't understand or appreciate the genre, (like myself) then you're
> > > better off staying away from it. Don't waste your time, and the client's
> > > money, trying to do something that you're not good at, or just don't enjoy.
>
> > > Several people commented on the difficulty of dealing with the clients or
> > > getting paid by hip-hop clients. Given the previous point, it's possibly a
> > > lopsided view: maybe some of the clients are more difficult because they're
> > > not getting what they want from people who don't understand the style..
>
> > > The point about hip-hop being the best selling music, although accurate,
> > > isn't relevant unless you're the one getting paid. For the artist, producer,
> > > publisher & record label this may be true, but it doesn't always extend to
> > > more or better paying business for a production facility. My opinion from
> > > the Atlanta area is that a bigger market has also produced a huge number of
> > > clueless-idiot get-rich-quick wannabe "producers", and a fairly large number
> > > of bottom-feeder crap "facilities" to take their money. More power to them
> > > that want to compete in that area, but I don't have a lot of patience for
> > > fools, with or without money.
>
> > > I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se, although I did see some age
> > > discrimination from the OP. Age brings wisdom, about things like actually
> > > making money in this business. Real world, firsthand experience from people
> > > who have spent years working in this field as a career - that's what I come
> > > to this group for.
>
> > > Oh, and for the OP (Paul) - why do want to jump from freebie samples to a
> > > $500 box? $500 can buy way, way more samples than any box comes with. These
> > > guys produce some very good stuff in other genres, see if their hip-hop is
> > > just as good:http://www.soundsonline.com/Urban-Legend
>
> > > Sean
>
> > * * *Ok, that seems to be a good idea.
>
> > * * *When you buy samples like this, are they
> > compatible with both Protools and Cubase? *Is it
> > easy to modify the drum loops, like where the snare
> > hit or high-hat's occur? *I'm assuming you do all the
> > modifications in the track time-lines. * I imagine when
> > you open up a drum loop, that they would have all the
> > different sounds (bass drum, snare, etc) all set up on
> > their own individual tracks that you can modify, right?
>
> * * In other words, I assume these sample packages
> are NOT like this program:
>
> * * * * * * *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwAHIDicQ3k&feature=pyv&ad=8476508850&...

In other words, you would just manipulate the
sample packages like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA

Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
setting? Or
would a dedicated box be better? More real-time control?

[hank alrich]

Paul > wrote:

> On May 30, 3:33 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
> > Paul > wrote:
> > > You don't know ****. You don't even like Hip Hop, like
> > > most close-minded old folks, and that's why you have been
> > > zero help to me.
> >
> > > Keep playing your backwoods, red-neck Hick music to
> > > your in-bred family......Weren't you that bald kid in "Deliverance"?
> >
> > Try harder prick lips. You haven't a clue. See if you can figure out how
> > a drum machine works.
> >
> > I know ****. It's you.
> >
>
> You only think you know everything, ****-wit.
>
> I found a video of you:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLN3QoN-q8

get your trite ****e goin'
get your big mouth blowin'
show 'em what you puttin down
show 'em how to ball
no time at all
you gonna own this town

you gonna whip a frenzy
generate envy
rollin' in the bread
lay it out straight
don't you wait
knock 'em outta they head

when you got the cash
'you can jack the flash
like there was no today
you one bad mutha
and there ain't no utha
can throw it down that way

don't be discrete
smack 'em wid a beat
like they ain't never heard
drive that jive
like a man alive
show 'em what's the word

you got the glory
tell 'em yo' story
about yo' mansion in the hood
don't mean maybe
take evahbuddy's baby
an' stick it to 'em good

when it's all gone over
an' you pushin' up clover
they all gonna chant yo' name
they gonna shake that thing
'til they break the spring
and another fool take yo' game

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
>,
Paul > wrote:

> On May 30, 4:20*pm, Paul > wrote:
> > On May 30, 3:48*pm, Paul > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On May 30, 2:18*pm, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:
> >
> > > > "Chip Borton" > wrote in message
> >
> > > ...
> >
> > > > > On 5/28/2011 9:20 AM, Paul wrote:
> >
> > > > >> * * *I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
> > > > >> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
> > > > >> balls. *I suspect you can't really get those
> > > > >> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
> > > > >> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
> > > > >> best box for this.
> >
> > > > >> * * *I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
> >
> > > > >> * * *Any recommendations?
> >
> > > > > Wow, there mere mention of Hip Hop sends even the most
> > > > > level headed and reasonable folks on this forum into a
> > > > > tizzy. Much like the never ending PC/Mac zealotry.
> > > > > The OP isn't asking folks if they like Hip Hop or not,
> > > > > apparently he does and just wants a question answered.
> >
> > > > I think you misunderstood what people were writing. What I got from
> > > > reading
> > > > all the threads was:
> >
> > > > Most of the responders don't enjoy hip-hop, and several disqualified
> > > > themselve as being useful for hip-hop production for that very reason.
> > > > If
> > > > you don't understand or appreciate the genre, (like myself) then you're
> > > > better off staying away from it. Don't waste your time, and the
> > > > client's
> > > > money, trying to do something that you're not good at, or just don't
> > > > enjoy.
> >
> > > > Several people commented on the difficulty of dealing with the clients
> > > > or
> > > > getting paid by hip-hop clients. Given the previous point, it's
> > > > possibly a
> > > > lopsided view: maybe some of the clients are more difficult because
> > > > they're
> > > > not getting what they want from people who don't understand the style.
> >
> > > > The point about hip-hop being the best selling music, although
> > > > accurate,
> > > > isn't relevant unless you're the one getting paid. For the artist,
> > > > producer,
> > > > publisher & record label this may be true, but it doesn't always extend
> > > > to
> > > > more or better paying business for a production facility. My opinion
> > > > from
> > > > the Atlanta area is that a bigger market has also produced a huge
> > > > number of
> > > > clueless-idiot get-rich-quick wannabe "producers", and a fairly large
> > > > number
> > > > of bottom-feeder crap "facilities" to take their money. More power to
> > > > them
> > > > that want to compete in that area, but I don't have a lot of patience
> > > > for
> > > > fools, with or without money.
> >
> > > > I didn't see anyone who dissed hip-hop per se, although I did see some
> > > > age
> > > > discrimination from the OP. Age brings wisdom, about things like
> > > > actually
> > > > making money in this business. Real world, firsthand experience from
> > > > people
> > > > who have spent years working in this field as a career - that's what I
> > > > come
> > > > to this group for.
> >
> > > > Oh, and for the OP (Paul) - why do want to jump from freebie samples to
> > > > a
> > > > $500 box? $500 can buy way, way more samples than any box comes with.
> > > > These
> > > > guys produce some very good stuff in other genres, see if their hip-hop
> > > > is
> > > > just as good:http://www.soundsonline.com/Urban-Legend
> >
> > > > Sean
> >
> > > * * *Ok, that seems to be a good idea.
> >
> > > * * *When you buy samples like this, are they
> > > compatible with both Protools and Cubase? *Is it
> > > easy to modify the drum loops, like where the snare
> > > hit or high-hat's occur? *I'm assuming you do all the
> > > modifications in the track time-lines. * I imagine when
> > > you open up a drum loop, that they would have all the
> > > different sounds (bass drum, snare, etc) all set up on
> > > their own individual tracks that you can modify, right?
> >
> > * * In other words, I assume these sample packages
> > are NOT like this program:
> >
> > * * * * * *
> > *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwAHIDicQ3k&feature=pyv&ad=8476508850&...
>
> In other words, you would just manipulate the
> sample packages like this:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA
>
> Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
> setting? Or
> would a dedicated box be better? More real-time control?

Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
topic. But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
those drums to sound like actual drums.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[rakman]

> Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
> topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
> those drums to sound like actual drums.

I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
drums" sound so bad to you :P

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
>,
rakman > wrote:

> > Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
> > topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
> > those drums to sound like actual drums.
>
> I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
> Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
> a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
> On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
> drums" sound so bad to you :P

If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably.
Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. Drums can sound very much more
real on vinyl than that. The samples sounded nothing like drums.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Scott Dorsey]

polymod > wrote:
>
>In essence, that's what I had recommended in my earlier post.
>Why limit yourself to a 'drum machine' whith all the samples available.

That's basically what the big hip hop guys do, they put together beat
samples from loops. It can be repetitive but it can also have breaks
and fills in it, unlike a drum machine.

Now, the question is where those samples come from, and it does seem like
the 808 samples are the things people want to see. And the truth is that
if you're selling time in a studio, the people will want to see an 808
there even if you never use it beyond the first time it's sampled.

I do remember when folks would record off of loop discs and off of drum
machines, then cut and paste individual measures together to make the
drum track on the 24-track, then lay down the rest of the tracks on the
same tape. I doubt anyone still works that way.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[rakman]

On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> *rakman > wrote:
> > > Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
> > > topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
> > > those drums to sound like actual drums.
>
> > I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
> > Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
> > a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
> > On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
> > drums" sound so bad to you :P
>
> If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably. *
> Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much more
> real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.
>
> --www.jennifermartinmusic.com

What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
to enforce on the rest of the world? Any
examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
by your definition.

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff > wrote:
>
>I would also love to find a product for <$500 that ensured heaps of money
>rolling in indefinitely....

That would be cocaine. It has other problems, however. I'm glad to see it
is no longer a standard studio fixture.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

rakman > wrote:
>On May 30, 11:33=A0pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
>
>> I don't care how it's made. I care about content. So does the guy who
>> made that film, and he a in't an old white guy, either. He's a hip hop
>> fan. Violence and misogny are part of what's wrong with this world, and
>> hip hop is loaded with it.
>
>Yeah I've banned jazz solos in my house because
>of all the heroin. Especially bebop sax.

Makes sense. Look at Coltrane, he did some great work. Then he got
hooked on heroin, went all Christian and came out with crap like Love
Supreme. That stuff is bad news.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >, > wrote:
>
>Noted your constant 8k too, think I did the telescoping
>shield thing to get rid of some of that, and if doing a
>combination of midi and live instruments always muted the
>electronics' tracks when not in use to minimize some of
>that.

An isolation transformer is really your friend for this sort of thing.
Relatively low-Z in too, like a 600:600 in a box.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

rakman > wrote:
>
>> Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
>> topic. =A0But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
>> those drums to sound like actual drums.
>
>I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
>Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
>a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
>On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
>drums" sound so bad to you :P

Unfortunately, they don't sound much like drums, mostly because of the
sheer number of generations they've been through. But that's the sound
the customer wants.

The hi hat is totally distorted, but oh well.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[hank alrich]

Jenn > wrote:

> In article
> >,
> rakman > wrote:
>
> > > Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
> > > topic. But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
> > > those drums to sound like actual drums.
> >
> > I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
> > Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
> > a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
> > On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
> > drums" sound so bad to you :P
>
> If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably.
> Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. Drums can sound very much more
> real on vinyl than that. The samples sounded nothing like drums.

Youtube is not a venue from which to hear sound well. One cannot tell
what those drums actually sounded like.

Further, just because something was recorded for real back in the day
doesn't necessarily mean it will be a quality recording. Hits have been
made on Wollensaks. Now that we are used to the clarity of digital
recording, some of might not think much of some old tracks in terms of
fidelity.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[rakman]

On May 31, 1:53*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> That's basically what the big hip hop guys do, they put together beat
> samples from loops. *It can be repetitive but it can also have breaks
> and fills in it, unlike a drum machine. *

90% of current hip hop consists of electronic kick
and electronic handclap, no loop in sight.
Yeah plus those pitched 808 snare rolls.

People stopped using funk, jazz, rock loops
some time in the early 90s, then it was kick, snare
and hi hat for a long time until loops came back
in the form of middle eastern and indian percussion
loops early 00s. nowadays it's kick, handclap,
electronic percussion. Hihats not essential.

Some beats/dubstep/electro/hip hop people draw in all the notes
using the mouse. This is one of my problems, as a listener
I like the electronic stuff more because it's fresh, but as
a musician I enjoy the real time manipulation of a musical
instrument. In other words I enjoy playing bass, playing
guitar etc but I hate the music I end up making that way.
Mouse clicking and messing with plugins/soundscapes etc
is totally boring but the end result is way better..

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article >,
(hank alrich) wrote:

> Jenn > wrote:
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > rakman > wrote:
> >
> > > > Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
> > > > topic. But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
> > > > those drums to sound like actual drums.
> > >
> > > I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
> > > Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
> > > a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
> > > On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
> > > drums" sound so bad to you :P
> >
> > If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably.
> > Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. Drums can sound very much more
> > real on vinyl than that. The samples sounded nothing like drums.
>
> Youtube is not a venue from which to hear sound well.

Point.

> One cannot tell
> what those drums actually sounded like.
>
> Further, just because something was recorded for real back in the day
> doesn't necessarily mean it will be a quality recording. Hits have been
> made on Wollensaks. Now that we are used to the clarity of digital
> recording, some of might not think much of some old tracks in terms of
> fidelity.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
>,
rakman > wrote:

> On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> > *rakman > wrote:
> > > > Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
> > > > topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
> > > > those drums to sound like actual drums.
> >
> > > I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
> > > Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
> > > a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
> > > On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
> > > drums" sound so bad to you :P
> >
> > If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably. *
> > Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much more
> > real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.
> >
> > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
>
> What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
> to enforce on the rest of the world?

I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. I'm simply saying that those drum
samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
any room. Perhaps that wasn't the goal. Perhaps the recording sucks,
perhaps it's YouTube. Don't know.

> Any
> examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
> etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
> by your definition.

I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really can't
comment there. Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off the
top of my head. Others are not. Abbey Road, good. Let it Be, good.
Revolver, less good.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Sean Conolly]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
On May 30, 4:20 pm, Paul > wrote:
> On May 30, 3:48 pm, Paul > wrote:
> In other words, you would just manipulate the
> sample packages like this:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA
>
> Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
> setting?

Basiclly, yes. You play the samples with MIDI tracks, and you can create the
MIDI tracks on a note-by-note basis or from a keyboard, pads, triggers, etc.

Yes you can do it live, and there's a lot of people doing just that. Using a
box would be good if you happen to find one that has all the sounds you need
and like- but you'd probably want to try before you buy.

If you're looking for specific recomendations I think you're in the wrong
group. You'd get better answers from an electronic music group.

Sean

[[email protected]]

On 2011-05-30 (ScottDorsey) said:
>>Noted your constant 8k too, think I did the telescoping
>>shield thing to get rid of some of that, and if doing a
>>combination of midi and live instruments always muted the
>>electronics' tracks when not in use to minimize some of
>>that.
>An isolation transformer is really your friend for this sort of
>thing. Relatively low-Z in too, like a 600:600 in a box.

YEah I know, eight channels of the drum box anyway, and the
telescoping shield thing was a handy quick fix, so I went no
further.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 6:28*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
> *rakman > wrote:
> > On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
>
> > > *rakman > wrote:
> > > > > Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
> > > > > topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is for
> > > > > those drums to sound like actual drums.
>
> > > > I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
> > > > Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
> > > > a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
> > > > On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
> > > > drums" sound so bad to you :P
>
> > > If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably. *
> > > Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much more
> > > real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.
>
> > > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
>
> > What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
> > to enforce on the rest of the world?
>
> I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. *I'm simply saying that those drum
> samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
> any room. *Perhaps that wasn't the goal. *Perhaps the recording sucks,
> perhaps it's YouTube. *Don't know.
>
> > Any
> > examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
> > etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
> > by your definition.
>
> I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really can't
> comment there. *Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off the
> top of my head. *Others are not. *Abbey Road, good. *Let it Be, good. *
> Revolver, less good.
>


The drum sounds created by a human drummer are NOT
the goal at all in Hip Hop! That's like trying to compare hand-drawn
animation versus computer animation.....there's no comparison.
Personally, I prefer the older form of animation at this point, just
like
you appear to prefer the older style of drumming. As rakman
has stated, these are samples of real drums, but they are triggered
in a way no human can really replicate.

If you totally hate every drum machine or loop you have ever
heard,
then you ain't gonna be of any help to me. There is bad Hip hop out
there,
but there is bad music of every kind as well.

Try to listen with an open mind, and you might notice a
VERY clever drum beat, that is too fast and too consistent for a
human to play, but that has a VERY deep groove to it, that is
not only danceable, but that can actually give you goosebumps.
Believe it or not, but Hip Hop and rap have their roots in the Blues,
rock,
Jazz, Soul, Gospel, etc.

Remember how your parents didn't like your music? Well,
now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! haha

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 7:01*pm, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:
> "Paul" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On May 30, 4:20 pm, Paul > wrote:
>
> > On May 30, 3:48 pm, Paul > wrote:
> > * * * *In other words, you would just manipulate the
> > sample packages like this:
>
> > * * * * * * *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA
>
> > * * * *Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
> > setting?
>
> Basiclly, yes. You play the samples with MIDI tracks, and you can create the
> MIDI tracks on a note-by-note basis or from a keyboard, pads, triggers, etc.
>
> Yes you can do it live, and there's a lot of people doing just that. Using a
> box would be good if you happen to find one that has all the sounds you need
> and like- but you'd probably want to try before you buy.
>
> If you're looking for specific recomendations I think you're in the wrong
> group. You'd get better answers from an electronic music group.
>

So people use recording software like Cubase and Protools
to perform with on a laptop nowadays? Interesting.

Many newer keyboards allow you to download the latest
sounds via USB. Do any of these dedicated drum machines
allow you to download new samples?

ok, I'll ask an electronic group too.....

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 6:16*pm, rakman > wrote:
> On May 31, 1:53*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> > That's basically what the big hip hop guys do, they put together beat
> > samples from loops. *It can be repetitive but it can also have breaks
> > and fills in it, unlike a drum machine. *
>
> 90% of current hip hop consists of electronic kick
> and electronic handclap, no loop in sight.
> Yeah plus those pitched 808 snare rolls.
>
> People stopped using funk, jazz, rock loops
> some time in the early 90s, then it was kick, snare
> and hi hat for a long time until loops came back
> in the form of middle eastern and indian percussion
> loops early 00s. nowadays it's kick, handclap,
> electronic percussion. Hihats not essential.
>
> Some beats/dubstep/electro/hip hop people draw in all the notes
> using the mouse. This is one of my problems, as a listener
> I like the electronic stuff more because it's fresh, but as
> a musician I enjoy the real time manipulation of a musical
> instrument. In other words I enjoy playing bass, playing
> guitar etc but I hate the music I end up making that way.
> Mouse clicking and messing with plugins/soundscapes etc
> is totally boring but the end result is way better..


That's interesting stuff.

You see many electronic musicians triggering things via
laptop these days. Real-time manipulation of a drum
beat looks easier with a dedicated drum machine, versus
recording software.

[Sean Conolly]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
On May 30, 7:01 pm, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:
> "Paul" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On May 30, 4:20 pm, Paul > wrote:
>
> > On May 30, 3:48 pm, Paul > wrote:
> > In other words, you would just manipulate the
> > sample packages like this:
>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA
>
> > Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
> > setting?
>
> Basiclly, yes. You play the samples with MIDI tracks, and you can create
> the
> MIDI tracks on a note-by-note basis or from a keyboard, pads, triggers,
> etc.
>
> Yes you can do it live, and there's a lot of people doing just that. Using
> a
> box would be good if you happen to find one that has all the sounds you
> need
> and like- but you'd probably want to try before you buy.
>
> If you're looking for specific recomendations I think you're in the wrong
> group. You'd get better answers from an electronic music group.
>

So people use recording software like Cubase and Protools
to perform with on a laptop nowadays? Interesting.

-----------------

One way is to use virtual instruments through a host package. For example I
use Reaper, which supports VSTi, so I can create a project, add a VSTi
track, set the input MIDI channel to match my controller and play away. If
your keyboard controller has pads you can map the pads to a drum machine
VSTi. Depending on the hardware the latency may be an issue.

I'm definitely a noob at this stuff, though. I haven't gotten past the idea
of performing live through a laptop yet - if I bring a laptop it's for
recording, not playing.

Sean

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
>,
Paul > wrote:

> On May 30, 6:28*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> > *rakman > wrote:
> > > On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> >
> > > > *rakman > wrote:
> > > > > > Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
> > > > > > topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > those drums to sound like actual drums.
> >
> > > > > I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
> > > > > Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
> > > > > a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
> > > > > On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
> > > > > drums" sound so bad to you :P
> >
> > > > If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably. *
> > > > Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much more
> > > > real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.
> >
> > > > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
> >
> > > What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
> > > to enforce on the rest of the world?
> >
> > I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. *I'm simply saying that those drum
> > samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
> > any room. *Perhaps that wasn't the goal. *Perhaps the recording sucks,
> > perhaps it's YouTube. *Don't know.
> >
> > > Any
> > > examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
> > > etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
> > > by your definition.
> >
> > I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really can't
> > comment there. *Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off the
> > top of my head. *Others are not. *Abbey Road, good. *Let it Be, good. *
> > Revolver, less good.
> >
>
>
> The drum sounds created by a human drummer are NOT
> the goal at all in Hip Hop! That's like trying to compare hand-drawn
> animation versus computer animation.....there's no comparison.

I understand that.

> Personally, I prefer the older form of animation at this point, just
> like
> you appear to prefer the older style of drumming.

Well, I prefer HUMAN drumming, but that's not really the point here.

> As rakman
> has stated, these are samples of real drums, but they are triggered
> in a way no human can really replicate.

I understand that.

> If you totally hate every drum machine or loop you have ever
> heard,
> then you ain't gonna be of any help to me.

I know. I didn't claim to be of any help to you. In fact, I stated that
I COULDN'T help you. I just offered an opinion on the SOUND of the
samples, in comparison to the SOUND of actual drums.

> There is bad Hip hop out
> there,
> but there is bad music of every kind as well.

Don't I know it! ;-)

> Try to listen with an open mind, and you might notice a
> VERY clever drum beat, that is too fast and too consistent for a
> human to play, but that has a VERY deep groove to it, that is
> not only danceable, but that can actually give you goosebumps.

I always try to listen to things that are unfamiliar to me with open
ears. Success in my work requires that. I will redouble my efforts.

> Believe it or not, but Hip Hop and rap have their roots in the Blues,
> rock,
> Jazz, Soul, Gospel, etc.

Yes, I can hear that. Around 2006, a touring rap act played my college,
and they were very interesting. They were in their 50s, and they billed
themselves as very original source in that music...kind of "roots of
rap". Very interesting and very informative. I wish that I could
remember their names...

> Remember how your parents didn't like your music? Well,
> now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! haha

Oh, I understand that very well! Paul, here's where I'm coming from:
First of all, I hope that you don't consider me to be your enemy. I'm
not. We obviously have very different tastes in music, but that, to me,
is normal in how I live my musical life, which, by the way, is about 80%
classical (I'm a conductor) and about 20% solo acoustic guitar, playing
original tunes, cover arrangements (lots of Beatles!), etc. My guitar
playing is largely a kind of combo of folk and "new age" type of sounds.
Heavy on melody, "pretty" sounds, etc. Look up Laurence Juber (one of
my teachers), Dorian Michael (my other teacher), Pierre Bensusan, Doug
Smith, Larry Pattis, et al, to get the idea. I make my living centered
around the SOUND of acoustic instruments. I value those sounds very
highly. So when I was commenting on those samples, I was referring not
to the performance, but to the SOUND of the drums. As I stated up
front, ***IF*** the goal was to replicate the sound of real drums, the
samples fell far short. But if that's not the goal, then...whatever. I
have problems listening to recorded sounds that are supposed to sound
like acoustic instruments, where the timbres are screwed up. It's a
little weakness that I have. ;-)

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 30, 10:12*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
> *Paul > wrote:
> > On May 30, 6:28*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
>
> > > *rakman > wrote:
> > > > On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn > wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > >,
>
> > > > > *rakman > wrote:
> > > > > > > Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about this
> > > > > > > topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal is
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > those drums to sound like actual drums.
>
> > > > > > I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
> > > > > > Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
> > > > > > a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
> > > > > > On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
> > > > > > drums" sound so bad to you :P
>
> > > > > If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably. *
> > > > > Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much more
> > > > > real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.
>
> > > > > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
>
> > > > What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
> > > > to enforce on the rest of the world?
>
> > > I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. *I'm simply saying that those drum
> > > samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
> > > any room. *Perhaps that wasn't the goal. *Perhaps the recording sucks,
> > > perhaps it's YouTube. *Don't know.
>
> > > > Any
> > > > examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
> > > > etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
> > > > by your definition.
>
> > > I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really can't
> > > comment there. *Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off the
> > > top of my head. *Others are not. *Abbey Road, good. *Let it Be, good. *
> > > Revolver, less good.
>
> > * * * * The drum sounds created by a human drummer are NOT
> > the goal at all in Hip Hop! *That's like trying to compare hand-drawn
> > animation versus computer animation.....there's no comparison.
>
> I understand that.
>
> > Personally, I prefer the older form of animation at this point, just
> > like
> > you appear to prefer the older style of drumming.
>
> Well, I prefer HUMAN drumming, but that's not really the point here.
>
> > *As rakman
> > has stated, these are samples of real drums, but they are triggered
> > in a way no human can really replicate.
>
> I understand that.
>
> > * * * * If you totally hate every drum machine or loop you have ever
> > heard,
> > then you ain't gonna be of any help to me.
>
> I know. *I didn't claim to be of any help to you. In fact, I stated that
> I COULDN'T help you. *I just offered an opinion on the SOUND of the
> samples, in comparison to the SOUND of actual drums.
>
> > *There is bad Hip hop out
> > there,
> > but there is bad music of every kind as well.
>
> Don't I know it! *;-)
>
> > * * * * Try to listen with an open mind, and you might notice a
> > VERY clever drum beat, that is too fast and too consistent for a
> > human to play, but that has a VERY deep groove to it, that is
> > not only danceable, but that can actually give you goosebumps.
>
> I always try to listen to things that are unfamiliar to me with open
> ears. *Success in my work requires that. *I will redouble my efforts.
>
> > Believe it or not, but Hip Hop and rap have their roots in the Blues,
> > rock,
> > Jazz, Soul, Gospel, etc.
>
> Yes, I can hear that. *Around 2006, a touring rap act played my college,
> and they were very interesting. *They were in their 50s, and they billed
> themselves as very original source in that music...kind of "roots of
> rap". *Very interesting and very informative. *I wish that I could
> remember their names...
>
> > * * * *Remember how your parents didn't like your music? *Well,
> > now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! *haha
>
> Oh, I understand that very well! *Paul, here's where I'm coming from: *
> First of all, I hope that you don't consider me to be your enemy. *I'm
> not. *We obviously have very different tastes in music, but that, to me,
> is normal in how I live my musical life, which, by the way, is about 80%
> classical (I'm a conductor) and about 20% solo acoustic guitar, playing
> original tunes, cover arrangements (lots of Beatles!), etc. *My guitar
> playing is largely a kind of combo of folk and "new age" type of sounds. *
> Heavy on melody, "pretty" sounds, etc. *Look up Laurence Juber (one of
> my teachers), Dorian Michael (my other teacher), Pierre Bensusan, Doug
> Smith, Larry Pattis, et al, to get the idea. *I make my living centered
> around the SOUND of acoustic instruments. *I value those sounds very
> highly. *So when I was commenting on those samples, I was referring not
> to the performance, but to the SOUND of the drums. *As I stated up
> front, ***IF*** the goal was to replicate the sound of real drums, the
> samples fell far short. *But if that's not the goal, then...whatever. *I
> have problems listening to recorded sounds that are supposed to sound
> like acoustic instruments, where the timbres are screwed up. *It's a
> little weakness that I have. *;-)
>
> --www.jennifermartinmusic.com


I don't consider you an enemy. Only a certain senile red-neck
out there!

But I don't see the point in you responding to a thread that
obviously has to do with creating Hip Hop beats, if you don't like
or understand hip hop at all. That's like a Rock/Blues person
trying to advise you in Classical conducting! Again, the point is NOT
to recreate
a human drummer....hip hop beats are very modern and electronic.

Instrumental solo acoustic guitar is a boring genre, imnsho. At
the very
least, you should try to hook up with a good singer. And beyond that,
the quality of the recordings you put up on your website were poor to
say the least. EQing is required, and even that may not be enough.
Did you use the microphones in the camera to record? Why not
direct
from the mixing board too, so you can mix in a direct signal from the
guitar?

To be honest, if you approved the sound quality of the videos you
posted,
I think you might wanna consider another set of ears to help with the
audio.

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
>,
Paul > wrote:

> On May 30, 10:12*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> > *Paul > wrote:
> > > On May 30, 6:28*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> >
> > > > *rakman > wrote:
> > > > > On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn > wrote:
> > > > > > In article
> > > > > > >,
> >
> > > > > > *rakman > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > those drums to sound like actual drums.
> >
> > > > > > > I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
> > > > > > > Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
> > > > > > > a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
> > > > > > > On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
> > > > > > > drums" sound so bad to you :P
> >
> > > > > > If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed
> > > > > > miserably. *
> > > > > > Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.
> >
> > > > > > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
> >
> > > > > What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
> > > > > to enforce on the rest of the world?
> >
> > > > I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. *I'm simply saying that those
> > > > drum
> > > > samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
> > > > any room. *Perhaps that wasn't the goal. *Perhaps the recording sucks,
> > > > perhaps it's YouTube. *Don't know.
> >
> > > > > Any
> > > > > examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
> > > > > etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
> > > > > by your definition.
> >
> > > > I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really can't
> > > > comment there. *Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off the
> > > > top of my head. *Others are not. *Abbey Road, good. *Let it Be, good. *
> > > > Revolver, less good.
> >
> > > * * * * The drum sounds created by a human drummer are NOT
> > > the goal at all in Hip Hop! *That's like trying to compare hand-drawn
> > > animation versus computer animation.....there's no comparison.
> >
> > I understand that.
> >
> > > Personally, I prefer the older form of animation at this point, just
> > > like
> > > you appear to prefer the older style of drumming.
> >
> > Well, I prefer HUMAN drumming, but that's not really the point here.
> >
> > > *As rakman
> > > has stated, these are samples of real drums, but they are triggered
> > > in a way no human can really replicate.
> >
> > I understand that.
> >
> > > * * * * If you totally hate every drum machine or loop you have ever
> > > heard,
> > > then you ain't gonna be of any help to me.
> >
> > I know. *I didn't claim to be of any help to you. In fact, I stated that
> > I COULDN'T help you. *I just offered an opinion on the SOUND of the
> > samples, in comparison to the SOUND of actual drums.
> >
> > > *There is bad Hip hop out
> > > there,
> > > but there is bad music of every kind as well.
> >
> > Don't I know it! *;-)
> >
> > > * * * * Try to listen with an open mind, and you might notice a
> > > VERY clever drum beat, that is too fast and too consistent for a
> > > human to play, but that has a VERY deep groove to it, that is
> > > not only danceable, but that can actually give you goosebumps.
> >
> > I always try to listen to things that are unfamiliar to me with open
> > ears. *Success in my work requires that. *I will redouble my efforts.
> >
> > > Believe it or not, but Hip Hop and rap have their roots in the Blues,
> > > rock,
> > > Jazz, Soul, Gospel, etc.
> >
> > Yes, I can hear that. *Around 2006, a touring rap act played my college,
> > and they were very interesting. *They were in their 50s, and they billed
> > themselves as very original source in that music...kind of "roots of
> > rap". *Very interesting and very informative. *I wish that I could
> > remember their names...
> >
> > > * * * *Remember how your parents didn't like your music? *Well,
> > > now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! *haha
> >
> > Oh, I understand that very well! *Paul, here's where I'm coming from: *
> > First of all, I hope that you don't consider me to be your enemy. *I'm
> > not. *We obviously have very different tastes in music, but that, to me,
> > is normal in how I live my musical life, which, by the way, is about 80%
> > classical (I'm a conductor) and about 20% solo acoustic guitar, playing
> > original tunes, cover arrangements (lots of Beatles!), etc. *My guitar
> > playing is largely a kind of combo of folk and "new age" type of sounds. *
> > Heavy on melody, "pretty" sounds, etc. *Look up Laurence Juber (one of
> > my teachers), Dorian Michael (my other teacher), Pierre Bensusan, Doug
> > Smith, Larry Pattis, et al, to get the idea. *I make my living centered
> > around the SOUND of acoustic instruments. *I value those sounds very
> > highly. *So when I was commenting on those samples, I was referring not
> > to the performance, but to the SOUND of the drums. *As I stated up
> > front, ***IF*** the goal was to replicate the sound of real drums, the
> > samples fell far short. *But if that's not the goal, then...whatever. *I
> > have problems listening to recorded sounds that are supposed to sound
> > like acoustic instruments, where the timbres are screwed up. *It's a
> > little weakness that I have. *;-)
> >
> > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
>
>
> I don't consider you an enemy. Only a certain senile red-neck
> out there!

Now now.

>
> But I don't see the point in you responding to a thread that
> obviously has to do with creating Hip Hop beats, if you don't like
> or understand hip hop at all.

Again, I responded to the SOUND of the samples. Not the beat, not the
music, not the style...the timbre of the "drum" sound. I do know
something about the sound of drums.

> That's like a Rock/Blues person
> trying to advise you in Classical conducting!

Actually, I welcome that, but that's a whole different story.

> Again, the point is NOT
> to recreate
> a human drummer....hip hop beats are very modern and electronic.

Great. The sound of the drum samples was very electronic, so I guess
they will work.

>
> Instrumental solo acoustic guitar is a boring genre, imnsho. At
> the very
> least, you should try to hook up with a good singer.

I accompany singers quite often, including my partner. And I do
understand that not everyone is into solo playing. You, of course, are
entitled to your opinion.

> And beyond that,
> the quality of the recordings you put up on your website were poor to
> say the least. EQing is required, and even that may not be enough.
> Did you use the microphones in the camera to record? Why not
> direct
> from the mixing board too, so you can mix in a direct signal from the
> guitar?

Yep, going from the board would sound better. When I have time, I'll do
that. I work at a place with a SOTA recording studio and they will be
recording my first guitar CD this summer.

> To be honest, if you approved the sound quality of the videos you
> posted,
> I think you might wanna consider another set of ears to help with the
> audio.

The point of those videos is not the audio quality, but thanks for your
input. Good luck to you... I hope that you have a long career in music.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 31, 12:20*am, Jenn > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
> *Paul > wrote:
> > On May 30, 10:12*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
>
> > > *Paul > wrote:
> > > > On May 30, 6:28*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > >,
>
> > > > > *rakman > wrote:
> > > > > > On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn > wrote:
> > > > > > > In article
> > > > > > > >,
>
> > > > > > > *rakman > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing about
> > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the goal
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > those drums to sound like actual drums.
>
> > > > > > > > I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
> > > > > > > > Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
> > > > > > > > a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
> > > > > > > > On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
> > > > > > > > drums" sound so bad to you :P
>
> > > > > > > If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed
> > > > > > > miserably. *
> > > > > > > Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.
>
> > > > > > > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
>
> > > > > > What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
> > > > > > to enforce on the rest of the world?
>
> > > > > I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. *I'm simply saying that those
> > > > > drum
> > > > > samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
> > > > > any room. *Perhaps that wasn't the goal. *Perhaps the recording sucks,
> > > > > perhaps it's YouTube. *Don't know.
>
> > > > > > Any
> > > > > > examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
> > > > > > etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
> > > > > > by your definition.
>
> > > > > I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really can't
> > > > > comment there. *Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off the
> > > > > top of my head. *Others are not. *Abbey Road, good. *Let it Be, good. *
> > > > > Revolver, less good.
>
> > > > * * * * The drum sounds created by a human drummer are NOT
> > > > the goal at all in Hip Hop! *That's like trying to compare hand-drawn
> > > > animation versus computer animation.....there's no comparison.
>
> > > I understand that.
>
> > > > Personally, I prefer the older form of animation at this point, just
> > > > like
> > > > you appear to prefer the older style of drumming.
>
> > > Well, I prefer HUMAN drumming, but that's not really the point here.
>
> > > > *As rakman
> > > > has stated, these are samples of real drums, but they are triggered
> > > > in a way no human can really replicate.
>
> > > I understand that.
>
> > > > * * * * If you totally hate every drum machine or loop you have ever
> > > > heard,
> > > > then you ain't gonna be of any help to me.
>
> > > I know. *I didn't claim to be of any help to you. In fact, I stated that
> > > I COULDN'T help you. *I just offered an opinion on the SOUND of the
> > > samples, in comparison to the SOUND of actual drums.
>
> > > > *There is bad Hip hop out
> > > > there,
> > > > but there is bad music of every kind as well.
>
> > > Don't I know it! *;-)
>
> > > > * * * * Try to listen with an open mind, and you might notice a
> > > > VERY clever drum beat, that is too fast and too consistent for a
> > > > human to play, but that has a VERY deep groove to it, that is
> > > > not only danceable, but that can actually give you goosebumps.
>
> > > I always try to listen to things that are unfamiliar to me with open
> > > ears. *Success in my work requires that. *I will redouble my efforts.
>
> > > > Believe it or not, but Hip Hop and rap have their roots in the Blues,
> > > > rock,
> > > > Jazz, Soul, Gospel, etc.
>
> > > Yes, I can hear that. *Around 2006, a touring rap act played my college,
> > > and they were very interesting. *They were in their 50s, and they billed
> > > themselves as very original source in that music...kind of "roots of
> > > rap". *Very interesting and very informative. *I wish that I could
> > > remember their names...
>
> > > > * * * *Remember how your parents didn't like your music? *Well,
> > > > now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! *haha
>
> > > Oh, I understand that very well! *Paul, here's where I'm coming from: *
> > > First of all, I hope that you don't consider me to be your enemy. *I'm
> > > not. *We obviously have very different tastes in music, but that, to me,
> > > is normal in how I live my musical life, which, by the way, is about 80%
> > > classical (I'm a conductor) and about 20% solo acoustic guitar, playing
> > > original tunes, cover arrangements (lots of Beatles!), etc. *My guitar
> > > playing is largely a kind of combo of folk and "new age" type of sounds. *
> > > Heavy on melody, "pretty" sounds, etc. *Look up Laurence Juber (one of
> > > my teachers), Dorian Michael (my other teacher), Pierre Bensusan, Doug
> > > Smith, Larry Pattis, et al, to get the idea. *I make my living centered
> > > around the SOUND of acoustic instruments. *I value those sounds very
> > > highly. *So when I was commenting on those samples, I was referring not
> > > to the performance, but to the SOUND of the drums. *As I stated up
> > > front, ***IF*** the goal was to replicate the sound of real drums, the
> > > samples fell far short. *But if that's not the goal, then...whatever. *I
> > > have problems listening to recorded sounds that are supposed to sound
> > > like acoustic instruments, where the timbres are screwed up. *It's a
> > > little weakness that I have. *;-)
>
> > > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
>
> > * * *I don't consider you an enemy. *Only a certain senile red-neck
> > out there!
>
> Now now.
>
>
>
> > * * *But I don't see the point in you responding to a thread that
> > obviously has to do with creating Hip Hop beats, if you don't like
> > or understand hip hop at all.
>
> Again, I responded to the SOUND of the samples. *Not the beat, not the
> music, not the style...the timbre of the "drum" sound. *I do know
> something about the sound of drums.
>
> > *That's like a Rock/Blues person
> > trying to advise you in Classical conducting!
>
> Actually, I welcome that, but that's a whole different story.
>
> > *Again, the point is NOT
> > to recreate
> > a human drummer....hip hop beats are very modern and electronic.
>
> Great. *The sound of the drum samples was very electronic, so I guess
> they will work.
>
>
>
> > * * *Instrumental solo acoustic guitar is a boring genre, imnsho. *At
> > the very
> > least, you should try to hook up with a good singer.
>
> I accompany singers quite often, including my partner. *And I do
> understand that not everyone is into solo playing. *You, of course, are
> entitled to your opinion.
>
> > And beyond that,
> > the quality of the recordings you put up on your website were poor to
> > say the least. *EQing is required, and even that may not be enough.
> > * Did you use the microphones in the camera to record? *Why not
> > direct
> > from the mixing board too, so you can mix in a direct signal from the
> > guitar?
>
> Yep, going from the board would sound better. *When I have time, I'll do
> that. *I work at a place with a SOTA recording studio and they will be
> recording my first guitar CD this summer.
>
> > * * *To be honest, if you approved the sound quality of the videos you
> > posted,
> > I think you might wanna consider another set of ears to help with the
> > audio.
>
> The point of those videos is not the audio quality, but thanks for your
> input. *Good luck to you... *I hope that you have a long career in music.
>
> --www.jennifermartinmusic.com


Well, you take criticism well, so I give you props for that.

But what would be the point of your videos, just to let people
know what you look like live? Of course not, you want to let them
know you sound good too. Your website represents you, it's
your calling card so to speak. You might as well put your best
foot forward, and up your game a bit.

my 0.02

Good luck to you as well......

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article
>,
Paul > wrote:

> On May 31, 12:20*am, Jenn > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> > *Paul > wrote:
> > > On May 30, 10:12*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> >
> > > > *Paul > wrote:
> > > > > On May 30, 6:28*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > > > > > In article
> > > > > > >,
> >
> > > > > > *rakman > wrote:
> > > > > > > On May 31, 1:14*am, Jenn > wrote:
> > > > > > > > In article
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > om>,
> >
> > > > > > > > *rakman > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Sorry that I can't help you, as I know virtually nothing
> > > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > topic. *But MAN those sample sound bad, presuming that the
> > > > > > > > > > goal
> > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > those drums to sound like actual drums.
> >
> > > > > > > > > I love these ignorant knee-jerks :)
> > > > > > > > > Those drums are from an old funk record, ie
> > > > > > > > > a live drummer playing kick, snare and hi hat.
> > > > > > > > > On vinyl. It's a shame that those "actual
> > > > > > > > > drums" sound so bad to you :P
> >
> > > > > > > > If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed
> > > > > > > > miserably. *
> > > > > > > > Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very
> > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like
> > > > > > > > drums.
> >
> > > > > > > > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
> >
> > > > > > > What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
> > > > > > > to enforce on the rest of the world?
> >
> > > > > > I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. *I'm simply saying that those
> > > > > > drum
> > > > > > samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > any room. *Perhaps that wasn't the goal. *Perhaps the recording
> > > > > > sucks,
> > > > > > perhaps it's YouTube. *Don't know.
> >
> > > > > > > Any
> > > > > > > examples? I mean Led Zep, Beatles, Motown
> > > > > > > etc obviously don't count as proper recordings,
> > > > > > > by your definition.
> >
> > > > > > I've only heard Led Zep and Motown on my car radio, so I really
> > > > > > can't
> > > > > > comment there. *Most of the Beatles drum sounds are quite good, off
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > top of my head. *Others are not. *Abbey Road, good. *Let it Be,
> > > > > > good. *
> > > > > > Revolver, less good.
> >
> > > > > * * * * The drum sounds created by a human drummer are NOT
> > > > > the goal at all in Hip Hop! *That's like trying to compare hand-drawn
> > > > > animation versus computer animation.....there's no comparison.
> >
> > > > I understand that.
> >
> > > > > Personally, I prefer the older form of animation at this point, just
> > > > > like
> > > > > you appear to prefer the older style of drumming.
> >
> > > > Well, I prefer HUMAN drumming, but that's not really the point here.
> >
> > > > > *As rakman
> > > > > has stated, these are samples of real drums, but they are triggered
> > > > > in a way no human can really replicate.
> >
> > > > I understand that.
> >
> > > > > * * * * If you totally hate every drum machine or loop you have ever
> > > > > heard,
> > > > > then you ain't gonna be of any help to me.
> >
> > > > I know. *I didn't claim to be of any help to you. In fact, I stated
> > > > that
> > > > I COULDN'T help you. *I just offered an opinion on the SOUND of the
> > > > samples, in comparison to the SOUND of actual drums.
> >
> > > > > *There is bad Hip hop out
> > > > > there,
> > > > > but there is bad music of every kind as well.
> >
> > > > Don't I know it! *;-)
> >
> > > > > * * * * Try to listen with an open mind, and you might notice a
> > > > > VERY clever drum beat, that is too fast and too consistent for a
> > > > > human to play, but that has a VERY deep groove to it, that is
> > > > > not only danceable, but that can actually give you goosebumps.
> >
> > > > I always try to listen to things that are unfamiliar to me with open
> > > > ears. *Success in my work requires that. *I will redouble my efforts.
> >
> > > > > Believe it or not, but Hip Hop and rap have their roots in the Blues,
> > > > > rock,
> > > > > Jazz, Soul, Gospel, etc.
> >
> > > > Yes, I can hear that. *Around 2006, a touring rap act played my
> > > > college,
> > > > and they were very interesting. *They were in their 50s, and they
> > > > billed
> > > > themselves as very original source in that music...kind of "roots of
> > > > rap". *Very interesting and very informative. *I wish that I could
> > > > remember their names...
> >
> > > > > * * * *Remember how your parents didn't like your music? *Well,
> > > > > now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! *haha
> >
> > > > Oh, I understand that very well! *Paul, here's where I'm coming from: *
> > > > First of all, I hope that you don't consider me to be your enemy. *I'm
> > > > not. *We obviously have very different tastes in music, but that, to
> > > > me,
> > > > is normal in how I live my musical life, which, by the way, is about
> > > > 80%
> > > > classical (I'm a conductor) and about 20% solo acoustic guitar, playing
> > > > original tunes, cover arrangements (lots of Beatles!), etc. *My guitar
> > > > playing is largely a kind of combo of folk and "new age" type of
> > > > sounds. *
> > > > Heavy on melody, "pretty" sounds, etc. *Look up Laurence Juber (one of
> > > > my teachers), Dorian Michael (my other teacher), Pierre Bensusan, Doug
> > > > Smith, Larry Pattis, et al, to get the idea. *I make my living centered
> > > > around the SOUND of acoustic instruments. *I value those sounds very
> > > > highly. *So when I was commenting on those samples, I was referring not
> > > > to the performance, but to the SOUND of the drums. *As I stated up
> > > > front, ***IF*** the goal was to replicate the sound of real drums, the
> > > > samples fell far short. *But if that's not the goal, then...whatever.
> > > > *I
> > > > have problems listening to recorded sounds that are supposed to sound
> > > > like acoustic instruments, where the timbres are screwed up. *It's a
> > > > little weakness that I have. *;-)
> >
> > > > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
> >
> > > * * *I don't consider you an enemy. *Only a certain senile red-neck
> > > out there!
> >
> > Now now.
> >
> >
> >
> > > * * *But I don't see the point in you responding to a thread that
> > > obviously has to do with creating Hip Hop beats, if you don't like
> > > or understand hip hop at all.
> >
> > Again, I responded to the SOUND of the samples. *Not the beat, not the
> > music, not the style...the timbre of the "drum" sound. *I do know
> > something about the sound of drums.
> >
> > > *That's like a Rock/Blues person
> > > trying to advise you in Classical conducting!
> >
> > Actually, I welcome that, but that's a whole different story.
> >
> > > *Again, the point is NOT
> > > to recreate
> > > a human drummer....hip hop beats are very modern and electronic.
> >
> > Great. *The sound of the drum samples was very electronic, so I guess
> > they will work.
> >
> >
> >
> > > * * *Instrumental solo acoustic guitar is a boring genre, imnsho. *At
> > > the very
> > > least, you should try to hook up with a good singer.
> >
> > I accompany singers quite often, including my partner. *And I do
> > understand that not everyone is into solo playing. *You, of course, are
> > entitled to your opinion.
> >
> > > And beyond that,
> > > the quality of the recordings you put up on your website were poor to
> > > say the least. *EQing is required, and even that may not be enough.
> > > * Did you use the microphones in the camera to record? *Why not
> > > direct
> > > from the mixing board too, so you can mix in a direct signal from the
> > > guitar?
> >
> > Yep, going from the board would sound better. *When I have time, I'll do
> > that. *I work at a place with a SOTA recording studio and they will be
> > recording my first guitar CD this summer.
> >
> > > * * *To be honest, if you approved the sound quality of the videos you
> > > posted,
> > > I think you might wanna consider another set of ears to help with the
> > > audio.
> >
> > The point of those videos is not the audio quality, but thanks for your
> > input. *Good luck to you... *I hope that you have a long career in music.
> >
> > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
>
>
> Well, you take criticism well, so I give you props for that.
>
> But what would be the point of your videos, just to let people
> know what you look like live? Of course not, you want to let them
> know you sound good too. Your website represents you, it's
> your calling card so to speak. You might as well put your best
> foot forward, and up your game a bit.
>
> my 0.02
>
> Good luck to you as well......

Great, please be sure to post some of your music sometime.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[geoff]

Jenn wrote:
>
> Just curious Paul: are you a musician?

He's not a musician, he's not a songwriter, he's not a recordist, he's just
a dude who wants to get a drum machine and become rich.

geoff

[geoff]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> geoff > wrote:
>>
>> I would also love to find a product for <$500 that ensured heaps of
>> money rolling in indefinitely....
>
> That would be cocaine. It has other problems, however. I'm glad to
> see it is no longer a standard studio fixture.
> --scott

I thought it was, at least in one genre. Like guns, bling and incredibly
silly pants.

geoff

[rakman]

On May 31, 4:34*am, Paul > wrote:

> > > * * * *In other words, you would just manipulate the
> > > sample packages like this:
>
> > > * * * * * * *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA
>
> > > * * * *Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
> > > setting?
>
> > Basiclly, yes. You play the samples with MIDI tracks, and you can create the
> > MIDI tracks on a note-by-note basis or from a keyboard, pads, triggers, etc.
>
> > Yes you can do it live, and there's a lot of people doing just that. Using a
> > box would be good if you happen to find one that has all the sounds you need
> > and like- but you'd probably want to try before you buy.
>
> > If you're looking for specific recomendations I think you're in the wrong
> > group. You'd get better answers from an electronic music group.
>
> * * *So people use recording software like Cubase and Protools
> to perform with on a laptop nowadays? *Interesting.
>
> * * *Many newer keyboards allow you to download the latest
> sounds via USB. * Do any of these dedicated drum machines
> allow you to download new samples?
>
> * * * ok, I'll ask an electronic group too.....

Ableton Live is the preferred software for messing
with tracks live, and producers like Skrillex use
that for beat building too. Pro Tools, Logic (and Cubase) are
more like virtual studios for full writing and recording.

The keyboard or drum pads are usually trigger devices
with no onboard sounds. Like this one,
which has keys, drum pads and knobs for tweaking
parameters.

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2009/01/14/akai-mpk-25/

For a keyboard player 2 octaves isn't really enough
but for a DJ or for basic bass lines, synth lines etc it
could be ok.

The samples, synths, instruments, sounds are inside
the laptop or computer.

Those big keyboards with the ability to import samples
via USB are way too expensive, especially when you can
get decent results inside a laptop, unless you happen to be a
bona fide piano player.

You can download samples off the net, people are
sharing or selling producer kits, just search on
Google or Filestube. Apart from the producer kits
where some dude has sat down to sample dozens
of Polow da Don kicks, snares, etc,
it seems many ppl get their samples from dance
records, then use the dance samples in the
context of pop, urban or hip hop. There are some
Deadmau5 drums out there on the net somewhere.

If u got time you could sample off your fave records,
assuming u can find an isolated kick or clap/snare somewhere,
as u get more advanced you could try to reverse engineer
your favourite beat production, try to figure out how
they did it and why, then re-create it.

[rakman]

On May 31, 2:28*am, Jenn > wrote:

> > > If the goal was to have a realistic drum sound, it failed miserably. *
> > > Perhaps the LP was terribly recorded. *Drums can sound very much more
> > > real on vinyl than that. *The samples sounded nothing like drums.
>
> > > --www.jennifermartinmusic.com
>
> > What is this "realistic" drum sound that you want
> > to enforce on the rest of the world?
>
> I'm not trying to "enforce" anything. *I'm simply saying that those drum
> samples don't sound anything like any actual drums that I've heard in
> any room. *Perhaps that wasn't the goal. *Perhaps the recording sucks,
> perhaps it's YouTube. *Don't know.

Drums in a concert hall sound different from drums
in a pub sound different from drums in a padded
rehearsal room sound different from drums in a
studio through preamps and compressors.. and so on.

A well recorded acoustic instrument is a beautiful
thing. But say if you stick an LA3A, a stereo spread,
a subtle pitch shift doubler thing, a Bricasti reverb
etc on your acoustic guitar you're actually making
it less "realistic". Just sayin.

Some people like the sound of low-fi drums or noisy 50s rocknroll.
Some people like the sound of electronic drums, processed
drums, industrial drums, gated drums you name it.
Wouldn't surprise me if many of your fave "realistic" drum
recordings have noise gates, compressors, artificial
reverb and other non-realistic stuff applied to them.

[Scott Dorsey]

Paul > wrote:
>
> Remember how your parents didn't like your music? Well,
>now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! haha

Hey, I got interested in classical music probably because my parents hated it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Paul > wrote:
> I suppose if you sample off your fave records, you've
>got to mask it pretty well? Or is it too difficult to notice
>just a kick? Like people get sued for sampling longer
>sections of music, but isolated drum sounds are too
>short to make a big fuss over, right?

No, you just pay for the rights through Harry Fox and don't worry about it.

People get sued because they are stupid, they don't want to pay for the
rights and they wind up paying more in the long run.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Paul > wrote:
>>
>> Remember how your parents didn't like your music? Well,
>>now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! haha
>
> Hey, I got interested in classical music probably because my parents hated
> it.
> --scott

Ditto. I still remember my mother ragging on me for the music I was
listening to. It was Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto.

[rakman]

On May 31, 1:58*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Paul > wrote:
> > * *I suppose if you sample off your fave records, you've
> >got to mask it pretty well? *Or is it too difficult to notice
> >just a kick? *Like people get sued for sampling longer
> >sections of music, but isolated drum sounds are too
> >short to make a big fuss over, right?
>
> No, you just pay for the rights through Harry Fox and don't worry about it.

[rakman]

On May 31, 1:58*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> No, you just pay for the rights through Harry Fox and don't worry about it.

[Paul[_13_]]

On May 31, 6:08*am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Paul > wrote:
>
> >> * * * Remember how your parents didn't like your music? *Well,
> >>now you are the old, jaded parents yourselves! *haha
>
> > Hey, I got interested in classical music probably because my parents hated
> > it.
> > --scott
>
> Ditto. I still remember my mother ragging on me for the music I was
> listening to. It was Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto.


Well there you go.....if redneck hillbillies or your parents hate
it,
it's gotta be good!

[Scott Dorsey]

rakman > wrote:
>On May 31, 1:58=A0pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>> Paul > wrote:
>> > =A0 =A0I suppose if you sample off your fave records, you've
>> >got to mask it pretty well? =A0Or is it too difficult to notice
>> >just a kick? =A0Like people get sued for sampling longer
>> >sections of music, but isolated drum sounds are too
>> >short to make a big fuss over, right?
>>
>> No, you just pay for the rights through Harry Fox and don't worry about i=
>t.
>
>For a kick drum hit? Lol.

If you use it, you pay for it. It's not a lot of money, and now that the
process is automated it's not a lot of work.

It doesn't matter whether anyone will know whether you cheated or not. It's
good form to do it right.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[hank alrich]

Paul > wrote:

> On May 30, 7:01 pm, "Sean Conolly" > wrote:
> > "Paul" > wrote in message
> >
> > ...
> > On May 30, 4:20 pm, Paul > wrote:
> >
> > > On May 30, 3:48 pm, Paul > wrote:
> > > In other words, you would just manipulate the
> > > sample packages like this:
> >
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnxAP7M7AmA
> >
> > > Would triggering this be practical in a live performance
> > > setting?
> >
> > Basiclly, yes. You play the samples with MIDI tracks, and you can create the
> > MIDI tracks on a note-by-note basis or from a keyboard, pads, triggers, etc.
> >
> > Yes you can do it live, and there's a lot of people doing just that. Using a
> > box would be good if you happen to find one that has all the sounds you need
> > and like- but you'd probably want to try before you buy.
> >
> > If you're looking for specific recomendations I think you're in the wrong
> > group. You'd get better answers from an electronic music group.
> >
>
> So people use recording software like Cubase and Protools
> to perform with on a laptop nowadays? Interesting.
>
> Many newer keyboards allow you to download the latest
> sounds via USB. Do any of these dedicated drum machines
> allow you to download new samples?

Many DAW apps these days come with a load of samples from which you
could assemble beats and loops.

> ok, I'll ask an electronic group too.....

Forums like Pro Recording Workshop enjoy the participation of people who
do every kind of audio work imaginable. PSW is pretty tightly moderated
which keeps the manners up and the noise down.

The Womb is sorta moderated about like a wild west show.

Gearslutz is a smorgasbord of crap with diamonds strewn about.

People at any of those hangs could offer experienced advice.
--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Chip Borton]

On 5/30/2011 4:45 PM, wrote:

> Noted your constant 8k too, think I did the telescoping
> shield thing to get rid of some of that, and if doing a
> combination of midi and live instruments always muted the
> electronics' tracks when not in use to minimize some of
> that.
>
>
>
>
> Richard webb,
>


Well, after you guys mentioned that noise in the D4 I dug mine
out of my closet and hooked it up ... wow you are so right!
Nasty computer interference sounding trash. I tried to see if
It was at the 8khz mark but I guess I am not using or don't have
the right tools to see accurately. In RME Digicheck I could see
noise levels hanging out around -80dB. I couldn't see the actual
frequencies as Digicheck analyzer only registers at -50dB.
I don't have the golden ears to "know" if its 8k or what.
But I can certainly hear it and it sounds bad.

I was listening to some vintage Gregory Isaac's cd's through
my RME UFX the other day and at the end of several songs I
could literally hear the hisses/hums turn off one by one as the
engineer muted them.

Never noticed before, but even so I think that kind of noise
bothers me a lot less than listening to classical where you can hear the
audience shifting in their seats and coughing etc.

Speaking of which ... I know ill get a verbal beat down for asking
but why couldn't you do a live studio recording of a classical piece
and do close micing to get rid of audience noise. Would it just sound
bad? Is there any examples I could check out?

Classical is probably the only musical genre that I don't "get".
I keep trying but everytime I turn on "Performance Today" I get
annoyed by folks coughing during the piece and end up switching
to something else. I love Jazz, Blues, Bluegrass, Reggae, Hip Hop,
Dixieland, Big Band, Americana, Musicals and even Country.
Just never been able to "grok" classical.
Maybe its my folks fault! Classical is the only music we didn't
listen to much when I was a kid. My dad was an awesome clarinet
and piano player who played with many greats including Louis Armstrong.
So I have dixieland and big band running through my veins.

[Scott Dorsey]

Chip Borton > wrote:
>Well, after you guys mentioned that noise in the D4 I dug mine
>out of my closet and hooked it up ... wow you are so right!
>Nasty computer interference sounding trash. I tried to see if
>It was at the 8khz mark but I guess I am not using or don't have
>the right tools to see accurately. In RME Digicheck I could see
>noise levels hanging out around -80dB. I couldn't see the actual
>frequencies as Digicheck analyzer only registers at -50dB.
>I don't have the golden ears to "know" if its 8k or what.
>But I can certainly hear it and it sounds bad.

Call Edcor, spend $20 for one of their 600:600 transformer boards. I think
you'll find most of it goes away.

>Just never been able to "grok" classical.
>Maybe its my folks fault! Classical is the only music we didn't
>listen to much when I was a kid. My dad was an awesome clarinet
>and piano player who played with many greats including Louis Armstrong.
>So I have dixieland and big band running through my veins.

It's not one kind of music, it's a bunch of almost unrelated kinds of music
with one label on it! Go listen to the Bach Brandenburg Concerti, it's got
a beat and you can dance to it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Chip Borton]

On 6/1/2011 1:59 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

>
> Call Edcor, spend $20 for one of their 600:600 transformer boards. I think
> you'll find most of it goes away.

Thanks Scott as always. The thing is I am actually trying to get rid of
all my old hardware as there isn't much I can't do in Nuendo or PT as I
have tons of VST instruments and plugins.

Adat blackface
ADAT XT
Boss SE-50
Alesis D4
Roland SC-55
BBE Sonic maximizer - DOH!
Alesis 1630 - DOH!
Sony DAT machine
CD players, Cassette players etc.

If anyone is in the Albuquerque, NM area come and get it off my hands
for pennies on the pound.

>
> It's not one kind of music, it's a bunch of almost unrelated kinds of music
> with one label on it! Go listen to the Bach Brandenburg Concerti, it's got
> a beat and you can dance to it.
> --scott

Wow, you are right :) I just youtubed that and even with the
youtube sound I got goosebumps. Thats my usual indicator that lets
me know when a mix is getting good, or listening to something good.
I just listened to #1 by the Frieburg Baroque Orchestra.
Guess its time to order the CD's to really enjoy.

It looks like it was still room miced and to me the room sound is too
much. In modern Big Band you would have section
mic's as well as a spot mic or two for the soloists or quieter
instruments. Why wouldn't this work for classical?

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article >,
Chip Borton > wrote:

> On 6/1/2011 1:59 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> >
> > Call Edcor, spend $20 for one of their 600:600 transformer boards. I think
> > you'll find most of it goes away.
>
> Thanks Scott as always. The thing is I am actually trying to get rid of
> all my old hardware as there isn't much I can't do in Nuendo or PT as I
> have tons of VST instruments and plugins.
>
> Adat blackface
> ADAT XT
> Boss SE-50
> Alesis D4
> Roland SC-55
> BBE Sonic maximizer - DOH!
> Alesis 1630 - DOH!
> Sony DAT machine
> CD players, Cassette players etc.
>
> If anyone is in the Albuquerque, NM area come and get it off my hands
> for pennies on the pound.
>
> >
> > It's not one kind of music, it's a bunch of almost unrelated kinds of music
> > with one label on it! Go listen to the Bach Brandenburg Concerti, it's got
> > a beat and you can dance to it.
> > --scott
>
> Wow, you are right :) I just youtubed that and even with the
> youtube sound I got goosebumps. Thats my usual indicator that lets
> me know when a mix is getting good, or listening to something good.
> I just listened to #1 by the Frieburg Baroque Orchestra.
> Guess its time to order the CD's to really enjoy.
>
> It looks like it was still room miced and to me the room sound is too
> much. In modern Big Band you would have section
> mic's as well as a spot mic or two for the soloists or quieter
> instruments. Why wouldn't this work for classical?

Sometimes it IS done that way.
The ambience of the space is an important aspect of classical music
performance. When it's not included in the recording naturally, it's
usually added on electronically.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Mike Rivers]

On 6/1/2011 4:54 PM, Chip Borton wrote:

> If anyone is in the Albuquerque, NM area come and get it off
> my hands for pennies on the pound.

You'll be sorrrrrrrrryyyyyyyy!

By the way, what's a "beat?"

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Chip Borton]

On 6/1/2011 5:21 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 6/1/2011 4:54 PM, Chip Borton wrote:
>
>> If anyone is in the Albuquerque, NM area come and get it off
>> my hands for pennies on the pound.
>
> You'll be sorrrrrrrrryyyyyyyy!


Ok, now I am confused ...
Are you saying that this stuff is still useful somehow?
Leroy Jethro Gibbs rule #52 , Never sell any of your old audio gear?

>
> By the way, what's a "beat?"
>

Is that a trick question?
Maybe Jamey Aebersold knows the answer to that ...
To quote "1,2 ... 1,2,3,4"

[RD Jones]

On May 31, 12:54*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:

> Before your daddy was old enough to get a hardon I was presenting Gil
> Scott-Heron in concert.

RIP !
The revolution can now be televised.

Surprisingly, CNN covered his passing over the weekend.

rd

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article >,
Chip Borton > wrote:

> On 6/1/2011 5:21 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
> > On 6/1/2011 4:54 PM, Chip Borton wrote:
> >
> >> If anyone is in the Albuquerque, NM area come and get it off
> >> my hands for pennies on the pound.
> >
> > You'll be sorrrrrrrrryyyyyyyy!
>
>
> Ok, now I am confused ...
> Are you saying that this stuff is still useful somehow?
> Leroy Jethro Gibbs rule #52 , Never sell any of your old audio gear?
>
> >
> > By the way, what's a "beat?"
> >
>
> Is that a trick question?
> Maybe Jamey Aebersold knows the answer to that ...
> To quote "1,2 ... 1,2,3,4"

I think that Jamey uses the word slightly differently... ;-)

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Mike Rivers]

On 6/1/2011 8:27 PM, Chip Borton wrote:

> Ok, now I am confused ...
> Are you saying that this [recorders, mixers, synths, etc.] stuff is still useful somehow?

Yes. Many people miss the simple hardware when they want to
work out an idea or just practice their chops. Having to
start up a computer and make some decisions as to what to
use before starting out to play can be distracting from the
creative process. I think that "in the box only" studios are
one of the reasons why there's so much mediocre music being
made today.

>> By the way, what's a "beat?"
> Is that a trick question?

Actually, no. It's a real question. When someone asks
what's the best whatever for "making beats" I really don't
know what they're talking about. What does it take to make a
beat? Hardware? Software? Musical talent? playing skill? And
what do you do with the beat once you have it? How many
beats does anyone need? Can you buy them on line? I play old
time banjo. Would my music get better if I made some beats?


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Chip Borton]

On 6/2/2011 5:00 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:

> >> By the way, what's a "beat?"
>> Is that a trick question?
>
> Actually, no. It's a real question. When someone asks what's the best
> whatever for "making beats" I really don't know what they're talking
> about. What does it take to make a beat? Hardware? Software? Musical
> talent? playing skill? And what do you do with the beat once you have
> it? How many beats does anyone need? Can you buy them on line? I play
> old time banjo. Would my music get better if I made some beats?
>
>

Ok, I just wasn't sure what you meant, I didn't want to try to answer in
the wrong way.

I guess in its simplest form it can be a simple TR-808 style 1,4 or
eight bar drum pattern. Maybe with a fill pattern to spice it up.
Then you would add the "hook". The hook is found by "digging" or
the art of going through bins of old records, usually jazz or funk
but it could be anything, even REO Speedwagon :). The hook is the
one small section on the record that gets your attention and keeps
it there. The hook is then sampled and layered and repeated along
with the beat. Add in the "rap" vocal and some scratching and viola!
You are a hip-hop producer! (just kidding there)
So when someone says "beat" they probably mean the the drum pattens,
sampling and scratching all together.

Listen to early Run DMC for an example of real simple stuff.
It sort of gets more complicated from there.

When I worked at the public radio station in the days of vinyl the
station would get records every day and since hip-hop really doesn't
get much airplay on a station like that, I would pick the records up
and take them home as they were just going to get thrown out anyways.

A typical hip-hop pressing consists of a full vocal/instrumental track,
a pure instrumental track and a pure A Capella vocal track. Usually all
of one single "song", maybe two "songs" on the single LP.

If you have multiple copies of the same vinyl and two turntables
you can then be manipulating the instrumental on one TT and the
A Capella track on the other TT. Or any combination, a lot of times
you would have the instrumental track on both TT's and do beat
matching (beat juggling).

Look up "digging" "turntableism" and also a series of DVD videos
by Doug Pray called "Scratch" which chronicles the history of hip
hop and turntableism. In some ways you can attribute Herbie Hancok
for popularizing the turntable scratch.(Rockit)

FWIW, I think real hip hop was mostly dead a long time ago, there
was real talent. The ridiculous "gansta" lyrics came with NWA,
and then came the R+B Auto-tuned stuff along with the negative and
derogatory lyrics and I personally can't stand it.
Eminem and Dr. Dre crap is anathema of real hip hop as far as I am
concerned.

I listen to hip hop all the time but I listen to what they call
"old school". KRS-ONE is one of my fav's that still roams the earth
today that has real talent and doesn't have to resort to bad lyrics.
For an example of turntableism look up "Invisible Skratch Piklz"

[Mike Rivers]

On 6/2/2011 10:49 AM, Chip Borton wrote:
> On 6/2/2011 5:00 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
>> >> By the way, what's a "beat?"

> I guess in its simplest form it can be a simple TR-808 style
> 1,4 or eight bar drum pattern. Maybe with a fill pattern to
> spice it up.
> Then you would add the "hook".

Ah, OK. So it's the rhythm section, usually not played by
anyone whose record it is. <g>

Thanks for the details.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Chip Borton]

On 6/2/2011 8:49 AM, Chip Borton wrote:
> On 6/2/2011 5:00 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>> I play >> old time banjo.
>>

Actually, I really love banjo and mandolin.
I didn't know it till I recorded Del McCoury and Ralph Stanley,
but now I am hooked on that kind of sound.
I like banjo and mando anywhere they appear though. I love
mixing jobs that include those.
I could probably find a hip hop record in my stacks that has
sampled banjo licks as part of the "beat".

[Mike Rivers]

On 6/2/2011 11:43 AM, Chip Borton wrote:

> I could probably find a hip hop record in my stacks that has
> sampled banjo licks as part of the "beat".

Like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcX3ftKSToQ&feature=player_detailpage

Bootsy Collins is involved as well as Del.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Mike Rivers]

On 6/2/2011 11:43 AM, Chip Borton wrote:

> Actually, I really love banjo and mandolin.
> I didn't know it till I recorded Del McCoury and Ralph Stanley,
> but now I am hooked on that kind of sound.

You've recorded two of the best. Glad you liked it.

> I could probably find a hip hop record in my stacks that has
> sampled banjo licks as part of the "beat".


You mean like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcX3ftKSToQ&feature=player_detailpage

Bootsy Collins is involved, as well as Del.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[geoff]

Chip Borton wrote:
> Well, after you guys mentioned that noise in the D4 I dug mine
> out of my closet and hooked it up ... wow you are so right!
> Nasty computer interference sounding trash. I tried to see if
> It was at the 8khz mark but I guess I am not using or don't have
> the right tools to see accurately. In RME Digicheck I could see
> noise levels hanging out around -80dB. I couldn't see the actual
> frequencies as Digicheck analyzer only registers at -50dB.
> I don't have the golden ears to "know" if its 8k or what.
> But I can certainly hear it and it sounds bad.
>
> I was listening to some vintage Gregory Isaac's cd's through
> my RME UFX the other day and at the end of several songs I
> could literally hear the hisses/hums turn off one by one as the
> engineer muted them.
>
> Never noticed before, but even so I think that kind of noise
> bothers me a lot less than listening to classical where you can hear
> the audience shifting in their seats and coughing etc.

Anything suffiently 'busy' and you may not notice. a pity cos otherwise
it's a good box !

geoff

[geoff]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 6/1/2011 8:27 PM, Chip Borton wrote:
>
>> Ok, now I am confused ...
>> Are you saying that this [recorders, mixers, synths, etc.] stuff is
>> still useful somehow?
>
> Yes. Many people miss the simple hardware when they want to
> work out an idea or just practice their chops. Having to
> start up a computer and make some decisions as to what to
> use before starting out to play can be distracting from the
> creative process. I think that "in the box only" studios are
> one of the reasons why there's so much mediocre music being
> made today.
>
>>> By the way, what's a "beat?"
>> Is that a trick question?
>
> Actually, no. It's a real question. When someone asks
> what's the best whatever for "making beats" I really don't
> know what they're talking about.

A 'beat' is the backing traack for a hip-hop or rap 'song'.

Usually bass, drums, and various other extraneous 'percussion' sounds. Most
sound pretty much the same , ones that I've heard anyway.

geoff

[Chip Borton]

On 6/2/2011 1:39 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:

>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcX3ftKSToQ&feature=player_detailpage
>
> Bootsy Collins is involved, as well as Del.
>

oh my goodness!

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Paul wrote:

> Get off your highhorse, Grandpa. YOU are the one acting
> like you are some sort of big music act, but you ain't ****.

Hank is just another musician. Also he is a real guy, you're not even enough
of a grownup to know your own surname it seems.

As for the abities of robot musicians they have the good property of being
able to keep t-time and the bad property of not being able to keep tau-time.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

rakman wrote:

> On May 28, 4:20 pm, Paul > wrote:
>> I've tried many freebie plug-in drum machines
>> in Cubase LE, and they all pretty much suck donkey
>> balls. I suspect you can't really get those
>> cool hip hop drum beats without a dedicated drum
>> machine, so I'm wondering what would be a the
>> best box for this.
>>
>> I'm thinking a used machine under $500 or so.....
>>
>> Any recommendations?

> YAWN at the predictable response from this group.
> But a "drum machine"? How about building up a
> kick/snare/clap (etc) sample library then treating the sounds
> with plugins instead? Or.. for a more instant result you could buy
> a second hand MPC with the person's sample library included.

Or rush getting Audition 3 if still available, I think it comes with what he
needs.

kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Scott Dorsey]

Chip Borton > wrote:
>>
>> It's not one kind of music, it's a bunch of almost unrelated kinds of music
>> with one label on it! Go listen to the Bach Brandenburg Concerti, it's got
>> a beat and you can dance to it.
>
>Wow, you are right :) I just youtubed that and even with the
>youtube sound I got goosebumps. Thats my usual indicator that lets
>me know when a mix is getting good, or listening to something good.
>I just listened to #1 by the Frieburg Baroque Orchestra.
>Guess its time to order the CD's to really enjoy.

Baroque music started out as dance music, really. It's built around a
dance beat. But then it changed as it became music for music's sake.
And then Bach came along and started using counterpoint, putting a bunch
of melodies together all doing different things at the same time. So
you can listen to the same piece in different ways and hear different
things every time. I think that's the coolest thing ever.

>It looks like it was still room miced and to me the room sound is too
>much. In modern Big Band you would have section
>mic's as well as a spot mic or two for the soloists or quieter
>instruments. Why wouldn't this work for classical?

Frankly, I don't think it works for modern big band recordings either, they
all sound terribly artificial to me. And Stan Kenton agrees; he hated when
they started close-miking the drum kits in the seventies.

Classical recordings are supposed to sound like the group playing in a real
room, and that means a certain amount of room ambience. Although mind you,
there is a lot of spotmiked super-forward classical stuff out there. If you
like that, listen to some of the Deutsche Grammophon recordings (which I
find almost unlistenably close at times).
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Chip Borton]

On 6/1/2011 5:21 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 6/1/2011 4:54 PM, Chip Borton wrote:
>
>> If anyone is in the Albuquerque, NM area come and get it off
>> my hands for pennies on the pound.
>
> You'll be sorrrrrrrrryyyyyyyy!
>


Ok Mike, This is just plain too funny. I had mentioned to my
wife that I was gonna throw out all my old stuff and she said the
same thing. That I should at least hook up the ADATs and dump
all my tapes off. Glad I did because I found beauties like this:

http://southweststages.org/IandI2.mp3
(there is a little silence at the beginning, I didn't clip it)

My first composition :) Done on cakewalk and the sound canvas.

Curiously, I also got a call from someone wanting an ADAT xfer.

[Robert Orban[_2_]]

In article >, says...

>
>Baroque music started out as dance music, really. It's built around a
>dance beat. But then it changed as it became music for music's sake.
>And then Bach came along and started using counterpoint, putting a bunch
>of melodies together all doing different things at the same time. So
>you can listen to the same piece in different ways and hear different
>things every time. I think that's the coolest thing ever.

It's definitely cool, but counterpoint dates back way before Bach. In fact,
counterpoint predates tonal harmony and what's commonly called "homophony" by
a few centuries. It started with religious music when the powers that be in
the Catholic Church got bored with plainchant.

That being said, Bach's baroque counterpoint is one of the great treasures of
Western civilization, but so is Palestrina's and Monteverdi's Renaissance
counterpoint.

[Scott Dorsey]

Robert Orban > wrote:
>In article >, says...
>
>>Baroque music started out as dance music, really. It's built around a
>>dance beat. But then it changed as it became music for music's sake.
>>And then Bach came along and started using counterpoint, putting a bunch
>>of melodies together all doing different things at the same time. So
>>you can listen to the same piece in different ways and hear different
>>things every time. I think that's the coolest thing ever.
>
>It's definitely cool, but counterpoint dates back way before Bach. In fact,
>counterpoint predates tonal harmony and what's commonly called "homophony" by
>a few centuries. It started with religious music when the powers that be in
>the Catholic Church got bored with plainchant.

This is true, but that's a discussion for rec.music.early.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."