Patrick Turner
May 13th 11, 09:51 AM
On May 13, 12:48*pm, flipper > wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:27:36 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner
>
snip,
I mentioned that .........Winston Churchill once said "Democracy is a
terrible thing, until you
> >consider the alternative." *But even the mild mannered polite Brittish
> >OK'd the bombing of Dresden.
>
> They didn't just 'ok' it. It was their plan.
>
> > *There are many still recovering from
> >bites on their arse from Thatcher.
>
> What were they doing sticking their arses up her nose?
Defending their rights while she attacked them.
> >Healthy discussions of gripes and troubles and rights and wrongs are
> >quite good tonic instead of secret police with jails full of ppl
> >disagreeing with Our Dear Leader, a la Nth Korea. Unfortunately, Dear
> >Leaders around the world are slow to catch on about what ppl want -
> >freedom of the press, separation of powers, no corruption, *fairness,
> >equal equity, equal opportunity, and equal wages and equal shopping
> >opportunities. That's only for starters. Gaddaffi is finding outabout
> >it now.
>
> That's all warm and fuzzy sounding but you aren't going to get it with
> socialist despots.
Not always, take a look at the histories of many despots. They get
topled by uprisings, maybe people even people power, often by other
despots, or guys who soon will have to become despotic to survive.
Nothing is forever.
>
> >At the moment, seems like Consumerism has replaced Communism.
>
> Good.
>
> >Consumerism is now catching on everywhere around the world
>
> Double plus good.
>
> > and
> >unfortunately we need 6 planet fulls of resources to keep everyone
> >happy with a north american lifestyle.
>
> Pure crapolla.
Ah, threatened by the truth eh? you likie money and good shoppee, but
hate the consequences. Therefore deny there are any consequences.
> > > *The alternative would be to
> >seriously reduce the standard of living expectations in rich western
> >nations,
>
> Socialists just can't bear the thought of happy people.
Yeah, but among the smiling masses there are the aggrieved, the ****ed
off, the unhappy, and sometimes in America they shoot politicians
dead, even ones with a nice hairdo and very nice looking wives.
Capitalists just can't bear the thought of a happy socialist.
> > but have everyone raise real standards to an equal level,
>
> As history has proven over and over again you are never going to
> 'raise standards' with despots and social engineering.
>
> > and
> >thus make do with the One and Only PLanet we find ourselves upon.
>
> Besides that being an already disproved farce, look up.
>
> > We
> >seem to have Peak Oil,
>
> The US has enough fossil fuels to last farther into the future than
> you can imagine.
>
> > yet we face a huge population increase
>
> Bull nuts
>
> Population growth always falls with societal affluence, the very thing
> you abhor, and is less than replacement in some western countries.
Oh, so you won't mind that the Arabs and Muslims out-breed the USA?
Sure, as women get distracted by education and stop having 6 kids,
they will still have lots more to increase world population, probably
to 10 billion, easy peasy,
and each one of the new people will demand a life as rich as yours has
been, so the drain on Earth resources is set to rise 6 times present
levels at least.
Nothing morally wrong with any of that, but people will have to
realise the cake slices will be thin.
>
> > and vast
> >increase in wish lists, ie, expectational increase while sea levels
> >are rising 3mm a year.
>
> And the sun burns, continents drift, and the universe is expanding.
>
> > Economists will tell you that the one shortage
> >of supply that the world will never experience is a shortage of
> >demand.
>
> A blathering of the obvious to no meaning.
>
> > The more we get connected, Farcing on Farcebook, ****tering on
> >****ter, the bigger becomes our sense of self importance and desire
> >for more and more meaningless aquistion of stuff.
>
> Aren't you supposed to blame that on geocentrism?
>
> > We head into an
> >unknown area if we all ignore history.
>
> Then why the hell do you perpetually do it?
But I'm not. I'm well aware of the fates of empires and cities in the
past which just grew too big, then PHUT, collapse, often quickly,
mercilessly. Farcing and ****ting each other don't really address
future problems, but at least ppl are starting to talk to more ppl
than they ever used to. Its a start. Where it is finishes is
arguable.
>
> >I guess the markets will decide what happens over the next 50 years,
> >if some jolly humdinger big fat wars don't.
>
> The market always does and all socialists can do is screw it up.
>
> >Whatever happens, it'll never be over, things are never solved or
> >resolved.
>
> In that case why don't you stop trying? I'd appreciate it.
You're sure not offering any better solutions.
>
> >Knowing that uncertainty is so damn certain, and that unknown un-
> >knowables abound, its easier to be happy and not worry, if you can
> >make it to next year without insanity and neurosis in spending habits
> >sending you broke.
>
> What a lovely thought. Now if you could just get the frakking
> socialists to agree we'd be all set.
Well, wasn't it Dick Cheney or some other putrid right wing capitalist
who said that in Iraq, operations were plagued by so many unknown
unknowables?
Not evern capitalists can agree with each other.
>
> >You can survive well if you reject the message pedalled by the rich.
>
> You mean by stealing instead?
Well, they steal from everyone, no?
Takin' just a little back never hurt the community. Let the
millionaire have his million. But what of the extra 100 mill? what of
the other 10 bill?
What of the poor? what of the millions who are robbed of any equity,
freedon, fairness, food, water, shelter, law, order, et all?
Maybe you think it'd be better to shoot all the poor, allow the rich
man unlimited riches while everyone else starves.
>
> >For me, "Putting on the Agony, Putting on the Style" has no meaning.
> >This was a title of a folk song written during the Californian gold
> >rush days of about 1860. Personally, I like to pedal around on a
> >bicycle, and I don't know how to use a mobile phone.
>
> Like I said, I couldn't care less whether you like to sleep on a bed
> of nails, eat grubs for breakfast, or whatever.
>
That's right, you just don't care about anyone else except YOU.
Patrick Turner.
> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:27:36 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner
>
snip,
I mentioned that .........Winston Churchill once said "Democracy is a
terrible thing, until you
> >consider the alternative." *But even the mild mannered polite Brittish
> >OK'd the bombing of Dresden.
>
> They didn't just 'ok' it. It was their plan.
>
> > *There are many still recovering from
> >bites on their arse from Thatcher.
>
> What were they doing sticking their arses up her nose?
Defending their rights while she attacked them.
> >Healthy discussions of gripes and troubles and rights and wrongs are
> >quite good tonic instead of secret police with jails full of ppl
> >disagreeing with Our Dear Leader, a la Nth Korea. Unfortunately, Dear
> >Leaders around the world are slow to catch on about what ppl want -
> >freedom of the press, separation of powers, no corruption, *fairness,
> >equal equity, equal opportunity, and equal wages and equal shopping
> >opportunities. That's only for starters. Gaddaffi is finding outabout
> >it now.
>
> That's all warm and fuzzy sounding but you aren't going to get it with
> socialist despots.
Not always, take a look at the histories of many despots. They get
topled by uprisings, maybe people even people power, often by other
despots, or guys who soon will have to become despotic to survive.
Nothing is forever.
>
> >At the moment, seems like Consumerism has replaced Communism.
>
> Good.
>
> >Consumerism is now catching on everywhere around the world
>
> Double plus good.
>
> > and
> >unfortunately we need 6 planet fulls of resources to keep everyone
> >happy with a north american lifestyle.
>
> Pure crapolla.
Ah, threatened by the truth eh? you likie money and good shoppee, but
hate the consequences. Therefore deny there are any consequences.
> > > *The alternative would be to
> >seriously reduce the standard of living expectations in rich western
> >nations,
>
> Socialists just can't bear the thought of happy people.
Yeah, but among the smiling masses there are the aggrieved, the ****ed
off, the unhappy, and sometimes in America they shoot politicians
dead, even ones with a nice hairdo and very nice looking wives.
Capitalists just can't bear the thought of a happy socialist.
> > but have everyone raise real standards to an equal level,
>
> As history has proven over and over again you are never going to
> 'raise standards' with despots and social engineering.
>
> > and
> >thus make do with the One and Only PLanet we find ourselves upon.
>
> Besides that being an already disproved farce, look up.
>
> > We
> >seem to have Peak Oil,
>
> The US has enough fossil fuels to last farther into the future than
> you can imagine.
>
> > yet we face a huge population increase
>
> Bull nuts
>
> Population growth always falls with societal affluence, the very thing
> you abhor, and is less than replacement in some western countries.
Oh, so you won't mind that the Arabs and Muslims out-breed the USA?
Sure, as women get distracted by education and stop having 6 kids,
they will still have lots more to increase world population, probably
to 10 billion, easy peasy,
and each one of the new people will demand a life as rich as yours has
been, so the drain on Earth resources is set to rise 6 times present
levels at least.
Nothing morally wrong with any of that, but people will have to
realise the cake slices will be thin.
>
> > and vast
> >increase in wish lists, ie, expectational increase while sea levels
> >are rising 3mm a year.
>
> And the sun burns, continents drift, and the universe is expanding.
>
> > Economists will tell you that the one shortage
> >of supply that the world will never experience is a shortage of
> >demand.
>
> A blathering of the obvious to no meaning.
>
> > The more we get connected, Farcing on Farcebook, ****tering on
> >****ter, the bigger becomes our sense of self importance and desire
> >for more and more meaningless aquistion of stuff.
>
> Aren't you supposed to blame that on geocentrism?
>
> > We head into an
> >unknown area if we all ignore history.
>
> Then why the hell do you perpetually do it?
But I'm not. I'm well aware of the fates of empires and cities in the
past which just grew too big, then PHUT, collapse, often quickly,
mercilessly. Farcing and ****ting each other don't really address
future problems, but at least ppl are starting to talk to more ppl
than they ever used to. Its a start. Where it is finishes is
arguable.
>
> >I guess the markets will decide what happens over the next 50 years,
> >if some jolly humdinger big fat wars don't.
>
> The market always does and all socialists can do is screw it up.
>
> >Whatever happens, it'll never be over, things are never solved or
> >resolved.
>
> In that case why don't you stop trying? I'd appreciate it.
You're sure not offering any better solutions.
>
> >Knowing that uncertainty is so damn certain, and that unknown un-
> >knowables abound, its easier to be happy and not worry, if you can
> >make it to next year without insanity and neurosis in spending habits
> >sending you broke.
>
> What a lovely thought. Now if you could just get the frakking
> socialists to agree we'd be all set.
Well, wasn't it Dick Cheney or some other putrid right wing capitalist
who said that in Iraq, operations were plagued by so many unknown
unknowables?
Not evern capitalists can agree with each other.
>
> >You can survive well if you reject the message pedalled by the rich.
>
> You mean by stealing instead?
Well, they steal from everyone, no?
Takin' just a little back never hurt the community. Let the
millionaire have his million. But what of the extra 100 mill? what of
the other 10 bill?
What of the poor? what of the millions who are robbed of any equity,
freedon, fairness, food, water, shelter, law, order, et all?
Maybe you think it'd be better to shoot all the poor, allow the rich
man unlimited riches while everyone else starves.
>
> >For me, "Putting on the Agony, Putting on the Style" has no meaning.
> >This was a title of a folk song written during the Californian gold
> >rush days of about 1860. Personally, I like to pedal around on a
> >bicycle, and I don't know how to use a mobile phone.
>
> Like I said, I couldn't care less whether you like to sleep on a bed
> of nails, eat grubs for breakfast, or whatever.
>
That's right, you just don't care about anyone else except YOU.
Patrick Turner.