Driver for 500W @ 12kHz

[5016]

Hi -

I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine wave signal at
12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such a driver exist? Or would I
need to use multiple instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is
this more achieveable?

Thanks very much for any assistance that you can offer.

[David Gravereaux]

On 03/23/2011 08:25 PM, 5016 wrote:
> Hi -
>
> I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine wave signal at
> 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such a driver exist? Or would I
> need to use multiple instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is
> this more achieveable?
>
> Thanks very much for any assistance that you can offer.


Could you describe that in more detail? 500W is a power level. I'll
assume that is power into the load, but what is the load? What are the
power supply rails?

--



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[PStamler]

On Mar 23, 10:25*pm, 5016 > wrote:
> Hi -
>
> I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine wave signal at
> 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such a driver exist? Or would I
> need to use multiple instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is
> this more achieveable?

100W is certainly easier. JBL makes several compression drivers which
will handle 150W continuous power when crossed over above 1kHz or
1.5kHz. See:

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/components/cmp_drvs.htm

But the question arises: what exactly are you trying to do? Usually,
when specifying a driver, you specify how much sound you want it to
put out, rather than how much juice you want it to soak up. Then you
figure out how much juice it will take to put out the SPL you want,
and *then* you figure out whether it can take that juice.

So what are you trying to do?

Peace,
Paul

[Arny Krueger]

"5016" > wrote in message

> Hi -
>
> I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine
> wave signal at 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such
> a driver exist? Or would I need to use multiple
> instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is this
> more achieveable?
>
> Thanks very much for any assistance that you can offer.

By driver do you mean loudspeaker driver or compression horn driver?

[5016]

On Mar 24, 12:14*am, PStamler > wrote:
> On Mar 23, 10:25*pm, 5016 > wrote:
>
> > Hi -
>
> > I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine wave signal at
> > 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such a driver exist? Or would I
> > need to use multiple instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is
> > this more achieveable?
>
> 100W is certainly easier. JBL makes several compression drivers which
> will handle 150W continuous power when crossed over above 1kHz or
> 1.5kHz. See:
>
> http://www.jblpro.com/pages/components/cmp_drvs.htm
>
> But the question arises: what exactly are you trying to do? Usually,
> when specifying a driver, you specify how much sound you want it to
> put out, rather than how much juice you want it to soak up. Then you
> figure out how much juice it will take to put out the SPL you want,
> and *then* you figure out whether it can take that juice.
>
> So what are you trying to do?
>
> Peace,
> Paul

Thanks to Paul and David. The purpose is to transmit data over
distances using sound at the high end of the audible spectrum. It's
not a very good reason, I know, I'm kind of experimenting.

I'd be guessing if I stated an SPL. At one point I could have done
these calculations but my undergraduate physics was 20 years ago and I
haven't looked since. I know that I want is as loud as reasonably
possible so that I have headroom to play around. I was hoping to
generate a sound that was at least clearly audible over any backgorund
noise at 100 feet, with headroom to play with from there.

On David's question, I was just assuming that the drivers would be
8ohm or so. If the best available driver for the purpose was 16ohm
then I could increase the amp size.

[5016]

On Mar 24, 7:22*am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "5016" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> > Hi -
>
> > I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine
> > wave signal at 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such
> > a driver exist? Or would I need to use multiple
> > instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is this
> > more achieveable?
>
> > Thanks very much for any assistance that you can offer.
>
> By driver do you mean loudspeaker driver or compression horn driver?

I don't actually care very much. Fidelity is not an issue. I want to
get the most volume that I can for a moderate cost. I just looked up
the JBLs that Paul pointed to me, and if I need a few of them at $700
each then the experiement becomes cost-prohibitive.

[John Williamson]

5016 wrote:
> On Mar 24, 7:22 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> "5016" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi -
>>> I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine
>>> wave signal at 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such
>>> a driver exist? Or would I need to use multiple
>>> instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is this
>>> more achieveable?
>>> Thanks very much for any assistance that you can offer.
>> By driver do you mean loudspeaker driver or compression horn driver?
>
> I don't actually care very much. Fidelity is not an issue. I want to
> get the most volume that I can for a moderate cost. I just looked up
> the JBLs that Paul pointed to me, and if I need a few of them at $700
> each then the experiement becomes cost-prohibitive.

There is one thought that occurs to me about this project.

Is this acoustic signal going to be in free air or inside a soundproof
system? If the former, then you'll need to make sure that nobody's
hearing is damaged. High volume at this sort of frequency can do severe
damage without the listener necessarily being aware of it immediately,
as witnessed by the large number of technicians in the UK that worked on
405 line TV sets who have/ had a severe notch in their hearing at 10,625
KHz, due to the volume of sound coming off the line output stages.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[William Sommerwerck]

> I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine wave
> signal at 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such
> a driver exist? Or would I need to use multiple instances?
> If I lower the power to (say) 100W is this more achieveable?

First of all, there's no such thing as "RMS" power. * You mean "continuous
average".

How do you know you need 500W? From what practical or theoretical criteria
is that number derived?

500W is a lot of power. No matter how efficient the driver is, most of it
will be converted into heat in the voice coil. As a driver working at 12kHz
will probably have a small voice coil, how long do you think it will hold up
to 500W?

Before even considering how much power you need, I would start thinking
about using multiple drivers in an array. This would narrow the beam, a big
advantage when trying to transmit over long distances.

You might look at piezo drivers. A yard-square plywood board of them might
provide the directivity and "power handling" (they're hi-Z, so they don't
draw much power) you need.

* Except in a meaningless mathematical sense.

[William Sommerwerck]

This is a good example of putting the cart before the horse. You're trying
to solve a problem, when you don't even know what the problem is!

That's why I made the following my e-mail signature...

"We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right
questions." -- Edwin Land

[Scott Dorsey]

5016 > wrote:
>I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine wave signal at
>12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such a driver exist? Or would I
>need to use multiple instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is
>this more achieveable?

No, you'll need multiple compression drivers Yed together, but when you're
talking levels like that you're well into the range where compressibility of
air is a problem.

What are you trying to do?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

5016 > wrote:
>Thanks to Paul and David. The purpose is to transmit data over
>distances using sound at the high end of the audible spectrum. It's
>not a very good reason, I know, I'm kind of experimenting.

You want high SPL, but not so high that linearity of air becomes a problem.
But, you also don't care about bandwidth.

Two possible methods of getting high effective radiated power levels include
a large (>10 ft) parabolic dish driven by a compression drive and horn at
the focus, and a large phased array of Motorola piezo drivers.

Take a look at some of the beamforming systems used for wind profilters to
begin with.

>I'd be guessing if I stated an SPL. At one point I could have done
>these calculations but my undergraduate physics was 20 years ago and I
>haven't looked since. I know that I want is as loud as reasonably
>possible so that I have headroom to play around. I was hoping to
>generate a sound that was at least clearly audible over any backgorund
>noise at 100 feet, with headroom to play with from there.

Compression drivers at high frequencies are very, very efficient. A watt
will deliver deafening levels. A hundred watts will deliver levels well
above anything safe for anyone in the area. But if you want high levels,
getting them with directionality rather than brute power is more effective
anyway.

>On David's question, I was just assuming that the drivers would be
>8ohm or so. If the best available driver for the purpose was 16ohm
>then I could increase the amp size.

That would be silly and futile, and basically a waste. Think of this as
a matched power system.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[alex]

Il 24/03/2011 4.25, 5016 ha scritto:
> Hi -
>
> I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine wave signal at
> 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such a driver exist? Or would I
> need to use multiple instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is
> this more achieveable?
>
> Thanks very much for any assistance that you can offer.
why so much power?
You need to cover long distances? Do you need directivity? Starting from
a single sinewave with fixed frequency, you can use a "satellite-like"
dish, place a single small speaker in the focus and obtain a very long
trow directivity with a very small amount of power.

A 500W handling driver for 12kHz is more like a "war weapon" than an
audio device...

ale

[5016]

On Mar 24, 9:19*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> 5016 > wrote:
> >Thanks to Paul and David. The purpose is to transmit data over
> >distances using sound at the high end of the audible spectrum. It's
> >not a very good reason, I know, I'm kind of experimenting.
>
> You want high SPL, but not so high that linearity of air becomes a problem.
> But, you also don't care about bandwidth.
>
> Two possible methods of getting high effective radiated power levels include
> a large (>10 ft) parabolic dish driven by a compression drive and horn at
> the focus, and a large phased array of Motorola piezo drivers.

How large an array of piezo drivers would be needed? Around how many
separate drivers? This sounds somewhat more practical than a 12-foot
dish.

>
> Take a look at some of the beamforming systems used for wind profilters to
> begin with.
>
> >I'd be guessing if I stated an SPL. At one point I could have done
> >these calculations but my undergraduate physics was 20 years ago and I
> >haven't looked since. I know that I want is as loud as reasonably
> >possible so that I have headroom to play around. I was hoping to
> >generate a sound that was at least clearly audible over any backgorund
> >noise at 100 feet, with headroom to play with from there.
>
> Compression drivers at high frequencies are very, very efficient. *A watt
> will deliver deafening levels. *A hundred watts will deliver levels well
> above anything safe for anyone in the area. *But if you want high levels,
> getting them with directionality rather than brute power is more effective
> anyway.

Thanks. Yes, this is intended to be conducted in the countryside a
long way away from anyone without appropriate hearing protection. But
directionality does sound like the right approach. I don't want to
deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary.

>
> >On David's question, I was just assuming that the drivers would be
> >8ohm or so. If the best available driver for the purpose was 16ohm
> >then I could increase the amp size.
>
> That would be silly and futile, and basically a waste. *Think of this as
> a matched power system.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Thanks to everyone who has responded.

[Scott Dorsey]

5016 > wrote:
>On Mar 24, 9:19=A0am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>> 5016 > wrote:
>> >Thanks to Paul and David. The purpose is to transmit data over
>> >distances using sound at the high end of the audible spectrum. It's
>> >not a very good reason, I know, I'm kind of experimenting.
>>
>> You want high SPL, but not so high that linearity of air becomes a proble=
>m.
>> But, you also don't care about bandwidth.
>>
>> Two possible methods of getting high effective radiated power levels incl=
>ude
>> a large (>10 ft) parabolic dish driven by a compression drive and horn at
>> the focus, and a large phased array of Motorola piezo drivers.
>
>How large an array of piezo drivers would be needed? Around how many
>separate drivers? This sounds somewhat more practical than a 12-foot
>dish.

Probably a couple hundred if you want to slam 500W into them. The wind
profilers usually use a couple thousand but then they are trying very hard
to get narrow aimable beams.

500W at 12 KHz is a whole hell of a lot of power. I mean, an ungodly amount
of power. This is tearing paint off the wall and shattering your neighbors'
windows kind of power. It's a lot of power because the drivers are efficient
to the point where 500W of input power can get you as much as 100W of acoustic
power, which is a hell of a lot of power. It's made more of a big deal because
of the directionality.

Don't expect reliable communication with crosswinds, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Neil Gould]

5016 wrote:
>> On Mar 24, 9:19 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>> Compression drivers at high frequencies are very, very efficient. A
>> watt will deliver deafening levels. A hundred watts will deliver
>> levels well above anything safe for anyone in the area. But if you
>> want high levels, getting them with directionality rather than brute
>> power is more effective anyway.
>
> Thanks. Yes, this is intended to be conducted in the countryside a
> long way away from anyone without appropriate hearing protection. But
> directionality does sound like the right approach. I don't want to
> deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary.
>
I'm very curious about this comment. Just how much wildlife is it strictly
necessary to deafen?

My general reaction to this project is that it won't compare to the
efficiency of transmitting data via radio, and as has been mentioned, it
sounds more like a weapon.

--
Neil

[Arny Krueger]

"5016" > wrote in message

> On Mar 24, 7:22 am, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>> "5016" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi -
>>
>>> I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine
>>> wave signal at 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such
>>> a driver exist? Or would I need to use multiple
>>> instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is this
>>> more achieveable?
>>
>>> Thanks very much for any assistance that you can offer.
>>
>> By driver do you mean loudspeaker driver or compression
>> horn driver?
>
> I don't actually care very much. Fidelity is not an
> issue. I want to get the most volume that I can for a
> moderate cost. I just looked up the JBLs that Paul
> pointed to me, and if I need a few of them at $700 each
> then the experiement becomes cost-prohibitive.

There's a problem with what you are trying to specify. You are effectively
specifying an engine in terms of its fuel usage, when the conventional
approach is to specify it in terms of RPM and horsepower.

The equivalent of horsepower for a loudspeaker is SPL over a given area. How
loud of a sound do you want, and over what area?

[Doug McDonald[_6_]]

On 3/23/2011 10:25 PM, 5016 wrote:
> Hi -
>
> I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine wave signal at
> 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such a driver exist? Or would I
> need to use multiple instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is
> this more achieveable?
>
> Thanks very much for any assistance that you can offer.

If you are after data transmission, you need to realize that
you need to specify bandwidth.

One you do that, you will use a filter after the microphone that
transmits ONLY that bandwidth ... and at 12 kHz, it will cut out
a truly gigantic amount of noise.

At 12 kHz a few watts should get you 100 feet while indoors
at a rock concert with a good horn.

Doug McDonald

[Doug McDonald[_6_]]

On 3/24/2011 12:19 PM, Doug McDonald wrote:
> On 3/23/2011 10:25 PM, 5016 wrote:
>> Hi -
>>
>> I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine wave signal at
>> 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such a driver exist? Or would I
>> need to use multiple instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is
>> this more achieveable?
>>
>> Thanks very much for any assistance that you can offer.
>
> If you are after data transmission, you need to realize that
> you need to specify bandwidth.
>
> One you do that, you will use a filter after the microphone that
> transmits ONLY that bandwidth ... and at 12 kHz, it will cut out
> a truly gigantic amount of noise.
>
> At 12 kHz a few watts should get you 100 feet while indoors
> at a rock concert with a good horn.

I mean horn DRIVER, not trumpet player.

>
> Doug McDonald
>

[geoff]

5016 wrote:
> On Mar 24, 12:14 am, PStamler > wrote:
>> On Mar 23, 10:25 pm, 5016 > wrote:
>
> Thanks to Paul and David. The purpose is to transmit data over
> distances using sound at the high end of the audible spectrum. It's
> not a very good reason, I know, I'm kind of experimenting.
>
> I'd be guessing if I stated an SPL. At one point I could have done
> these calculations but my undergraduate physics was 20 years ago and I
> haven't looked since. I know that I want is as loud as reasonably
> possible so that I have headroom to play around. I was hoping to
> generate a sound that was at least clearly audible over any backgorund
> noise at 100 feet, with headroom to play with from there.
>
> On David's question, I was just assuming that the drivers would be
> 8ohm or so. If the best available driver for the purpose was 16ohm
> then I could increase the amp size.

You planning on deafening many people in the process ?

geoff

[RD Jones]

On Mar 24, 10:07*am, "Neil Gould" > wrote:

> My general reaction to this project is that it won't compare to the
> efficiency of transmitting data via radio, and as has been mentioned, it
> sounds more like a weapon.

This is a much more efficient solution.
12kHz is in the VLF band, so coupling the signal inductively rather
than acoustically
will eliminate the hazards and work well with a very much lower power
requirement.

rd

[Bill Graham]

geoff wrote:
> 5016 wrote:
>> On Mar 24, 12:14 am, PStamler > wrote:
>>> On Mar 23, 10:25 pm, 5016 > wrote:
>>
>> Thanks to Paul and David. The purpose is to transmit data over
>> distances using sound at the high end of the audible spectrum. It's
>> not a very good reason, I know, I'm kind of experimenting.
>>
>> I'd be guessing if I stated an SPL. At one point I could have done
>> these calculations but my undergraduate physics was 20 years ago and
>> I haven't looked since. I know that I want is as loud as reasonably
>> possible so that I have headroom to play around. I was hoping to
>> generate a sound that was at least clearly audible over any
>> backgorund noise at 100 feet, with headroom to play with from there.
>>
>> On David's question, I was just assuming that the drivers would be
>> 8ohm or so. If the best available driver for the purpose was 16ohm
>> then I could increase the amp size.
>
> You planning on deafening many people in the process ?
>
> geoff

Or many animals?

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

PStamler wrote:

> On Mar 23, 10:25 pm, 5016 > wrote:
>> Hi -

>> I'm looking for a driver that is able to handle a sine wave signal at
>> 12kHz with a power of 500W RMS. Does such a driver exist? Or would I
>> need to use multiple instances? If I lower the power to (say) 100W is
>> this more achieveable?

> 100W is certainly easier. JBL makes several compression drivers which
> will handle 150W continuous power when crossed over above 1kHz or
> 1.5kHz. See:

> http://www.jblpro.com/pages/components/cmp_drvs.htm

That spec is about continuous program, it usually translates to 1/3 of that
for continuous sinewave as per some very old JBL brochures and the wording
here is a but foggy regarding whether it is about 150 watt continuous
program wideband into a system with a cross-over at or above specified
frequency. Not really an issue in a real world context because of the high
crest factor of the high frequency part of the spectrum, but I plain do NOT
believe that it will survive 150 watts continuous 2 kHz or 12 kHz sinewave
for a dual digit number of minutes, 15 watts sinewave for 1 hour is more
likely than 150.

It should also be noted that such drivers provide about 110 dB at one watt
and one meter. The intended use - data transfer at 12 kHz - is from a
hearing safety viewpoint idiotic. To get reasonably safely out of the
bandwidth of the hearing sense might require the OP to go to 42 kHz,
something that would also allow a higher bitrate. Conceptually it is simple
to connect a US Robotics to a horn driver, but you still get only 9600
baud - perhaps a bit more on a good day with not too many re-transmits, but
.... erm ...

> Paul

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

5016 wrote:

> Thanks. Yes, this is intended to be conducted in the countryside a
> long way away from anyone without appropriate hearing protection. But
> directionality does sound like the right approach. I don't want to
> deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary.

What is the necessity?

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[[email protected]]

5016 > wrote:
> I don't want to deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary.

What is the terrestrial equivalent to beached whales?

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 11:24:59 -0400, wrote:

>5016 > wrote:
>> I don't want to deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary.
>
>What is the terrestrial equivalent to beached whales?

Sunbathing Americans.

d

[hank alrich]

Les Cargill > wrote:

> wrote:
> > > wrote:
> >> I don't want to deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary.
> >
> > What is the terrestrial equivalent to beached whales?
>
> A Tea Party rally.
>
> --
> Les Cargill

Hold yer calls, folks; we have our winner.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman

[Les Cargill[_2_]]

wrote:
> > wrote:
>> I don't want to deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary.
>
> What is the terrestrial equivalent to beached whales?

A Tea Party rally.

--
Les Cargill

[[email protected]]

LEs writes:
wrote:
>> > wrote:
>>> I don't want to deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary.
>> What is the terrestrial equivalent to beached whales?
>A Tea Party rally.

<rotflmao!!!>

I still hope 5016 decides to play with this concept in a lab
somewhere or other controlled environment. Dogs and other
such creatures aren't going to appreciate his experiment
very much I can tell you.



Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[hank alrich]

Les Cargill > wrote:

> hank alrich wrote:
> > Les > wrote:
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>> I don't want to deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary.
> >>>
> >>> What is the terrestrial equivalent to beached whales?
> >>
> >> A Tea Party rally.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Les Cargill
> >
> > Hold yer calls, folks; we have our winner.
> >
>
>
> Gor bless them folks, but they tend to be beefy.

It's what's for dinner.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman

[Les Cargill[_2_]]

hank alrich wrote:
> Les > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>> > wrote:
>>>> I don't want to deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary.
>>>
>>> What is the terrestrial equivalent to beached whales?
>>
>> A Tea Party rally.
>>
>> --
>> Les Cargill
>
> Hold yer calls, folks; we have our winner.
>


Gor bless them folks, but they tend to be beefy.

--
Les Cargill

[5016]

On Mar 26, 1:32*pm, wrote:
> LEs writes:
>
> * wrote:
> * *>> > *wrote:
> * *>>> I don't want to deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary.
> * *>> What is the terrestrial equivalent to beached whales?
> * *>A Tea Party rally.
>
> <rotflmao!!!>
>
> I still hope 5016 decides to play with this concept in a lab
> somewhere or other controlled environment. *Dogs and other
> such creatures aren't going to appreciate his experiment
> very much I can tell you.
>
> Richard webb,
>
> replace anything before at with elspider
> ON site audio in the southland: seewww.gatasound.com

I think that the consensus is that I need to rethink this, so that's
what I'm going to do. Thanks to everyone for the help.

[[email protected]]

On 2011-03-28 said:
>> I still hope 5016 decides to play with this concept in a lab
>> somewhere or other controlled environment. ÿDogs and other
>> such creatures aren't going to appreciate his experiment
>> very much I can tell you.

>I think that the consensus is that I need to rethink this, so that's
>what I'm going to do. Thanks to everyone for the help.

The various craetures that you might come in contact with
doing this experiment thank you!!!



Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[gjsmo]

On Mar 28, 9:15*am, 5016 > wrote:
> On Mar 26, 1:32*pm, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > LEs writes:
>
> > * wrote:
> > * *>> > *wrote:
> > * *>>> I don't want to deafen more wildlife than strictly necessary..
> > * *>> What is the terrestrial equivalent to beached whales?
> > * *>A Tea Party rally.
>
> > <rotflmao!!!>
>
> > I still hope 5016 decides to play with this concept in a lab
> > somewhere or other controlled environment. *Dogs and other
> > such creatures aren't going to appreciate his experiment
> > very much I can tell you.
>
> > Richard webb,
>
> > replace anything before at with elspider
> > ON site audio in the southland: seewww.gatasound.com
>
> I think that the consensus is that I need to rethink this, so that's
> what I'm going to do. Thanks to everyone for the help.

It's honestly an interesting idea. Maybe a bit DANGEROUS, but
interesting.
I like the idea of the satellite dish.