63/37 Solder

[mcp6453[_2_]]

The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
Is there another source for 63/37?

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 3/4/2011 3:54 PM, mcp6453 wrote:
> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
> Is there another source for 63/37?

Actually, it appears to be readily available from multiple sources. Even Amazon
is carrying it.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
mcp6453 > wrote:
>The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
>Is there another source for 63/37?

Sure, Digi-Key or Mouser, but you'll pay list price.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 3/4/2011 4:29 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> Sure, Digi-Key or Mouser, but you'll pay list price.

That's not new.

[Mike Rivers]

On 3/4/2011 10:39 PM, mcp6453 wrote:

>> Sure, Digi-Key or Mouser, but you'll pay list price.

> That's not new.

A lot of old things now cost more than their new
replacements that you can't or don't want to use.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[MG[_4_]]

"mcp6453" > wrote in message
...
> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned
> sold out.
> Is there another source for 63/37?
>

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/21-1185

they have a lot of 60/40, also

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 3/5/2011 3:00 PM, MG wrote:
>
> "mcp6453" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
>> Is there another source for 63/37?
>>
>
> http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/21-1185
>
> they have a lot of 60/40, also

At one point, the solder I bought had some silver in it. The two pieces of rolls
that I have don't have the labels, so I don't know if I used those roles up.

I measured the diameter of the rolls I have, and it's .036. Now I wonder if
that's really .032 or .040 nominal. It's not a lot of difference either way for
soldering XLRs.

[Scott Dorsey]

mcp6453 > wrote:
>
>At one point, the solder I bought had some silver in it. The two pieces of rolls
>that I have don't have the labels, so I don't know if I used those roles up.

That would be 2% silver-bearing solder. It's not eutectic, so it's harder
to make good joints with. On the other hand, it also doesn't flow as well
as 60/40. BUT, you have to use it on silver-plated contacts otherwise you
will wind up with a little ring of base metal exposed around the joint
which can corrode.

>I measured the diameter of the rolls I have, and it's .036. Now I wonder if
>that's really .032 or .040 nominal. It's not a lot of difference either way for
>soldering XLRs.

I'd pick something larger than that for XLRs, but that's a personal preference.
It's faster to work with 18 ga for XLRs, but for doing IC sockets you might
prefer 26 ga.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Stuart Richards]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> That would be 2% silver-bearing solder. It's not eutectic, so it's harder
> to make good joints with.

Sn62Pb36Ag2 solder (aka Sn62 & Pb36A) is eutectic. It has a distinct melting
point of 179 degrees Celsius, according to Electronic materials and processes
handbook:
http://books.google.com/books?id=CQGPGwFuPRkC&lpg=SA5-PA8&pg=SA5-PA10#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Scott Dorsey]

Stuart Richards > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> That would be 2% silver-bearing solder. It's not eutectic, so it's harder
>> to make good joints with.
>
>Sn62Pb36Ag2 solder (aka Sn62 & Pb36A) is eutectic. It has a distinct melting
>point of 179 degrees Celsius, according to Electronic materials and processes
>handbook:
>http://books.google.com/books?id=CQGPGwFuPRkC&lpg=SA5-PA8&pg=SA5-PA10#v=onepage&q&f=false

Wow! I always thought it had a plastic region because it crystallizes on
me if I so much as breathe on it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 3/5/2011 7:53 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Stuart Richards > wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>
>>> That would be 2% silver-bearing solder. It's not eutectic, so it's harder
>>> to make good joints with.
>>
>> Sn62Pb36Ag2 solder (aka Sn62 & Pb36A) is eutectic. It has a distinct melting
>> point of 179 degrees Celsius, according to Electronic materials and processes
>> handbook:
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=CQGPGwFuPRkC&lpg=SA5-PA8&pg=SA5-PA10#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> Wow! I always thought it had a plastic region because it crystallizes on
> me if I so much as breathe on it.
> --scott
>

I built a DTMF decoder kit tonight, and I had a heck of a time getting the flux
off the board. Even the PCB cleaner that I've had for 15 years didn't work well.
It looks like I may have to run it through the dishwasher. That's never happened
before. The board and components came from Europe, so they're fully RoHS. I
wonder if my old solder doesn't like RoHS.

[Mike Rivers]

On 3/5/2011 11:03 PM, mcp6453 wrote:

> I built a DTMF decoder kit tonight, and I had a heck of a time getting the flux
> off the board. Even the PCB cleaner that I've had for 15 years didn't work well.
> It looks like I may have to run it through the dishwasher.

You might. Many of the fluxes these days are water-soluble,
but that doesn't mean they don't need some elbow grease too.
Commercially built PC boards go through what's essentially a
dishwasher after they're soldered.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers > wrote:
>On 3/5/2011 11:03 PM, mcp6453 wrote:
>
>> I built a DTMF decoder kit tonight, and I had a heck of a time getting the flux
>> off the board. Even the PCB cleaner that I've had for 15 years didn't work well.
>> It looks like I may have to run it through the dishwasher.
>
>You might. Many of the fluxes these days are water-soluble,
>but that doesn't mean they don't need some elbow grease too.
>Commercially built PC boards go through what's essentially a
>dishwasher after they're soldered.

And most of those fancy washable fluxes are also corrosive, so you HAVE
to wash them off.

I think you're better off just using plain old rosin flux. You can remove
it with alcohol and some elbow grease if you want or need to, but most of
the time you can just leave it on and it won't hurt anything.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

mcp6453 wrote:
> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
> Is there another source for 63/37?


Is this significantly different to 60/40?

Cheers

ian

[Arny Krueger]

"Ian Bell" > wrote in message

> mcp6453 wrote:
>> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that
>> Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another source for
>> 63/37?
>
>
> Is this significantly different to 60/40?

The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does not go through a
plastic stage while cooling, but goes directly from liquid to solid. This
reduces the possibilty of cold joints.

[Scott Dorsey]

Ian Bell > wrote:
>mcp6453 wrote:
>> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
>> Is there another source for 63/37?
>
>Is this significantly different to 60/40?

Yes. It doesn't flow as well as 60/40, but it has no plastic range as it
cools so it's much easier to make a good joint especially if there is
any vibration.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[geoff]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Ian Bell" > wrote in message
>
>> mcp6453 wrote:
>>> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that
>>> Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another source for
>>> 63/37?
>>
>>
>> Is this significantly different to 60/40?
>
> The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does not go through a
> plastic stage while cooling, but goes directly from liquid to solid.
> This reduces the possibilty of cold joints.

Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?

geoff

[Mike Rivers]

On 3/9/2011 2:29 PM, geoff wrote:

> Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?

No need to get too analytical. How about "crummy joints?"

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Arny Krueger]

"geoff" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "Ian Bell" > wrote in message
>>
>>> mcp6453 wrote:
>>>> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that
>>>> Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another source for
>>>> 63/37?
>>>
>>>
>>> Is this significantly different to 60/40?

>> The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does
>> not go through a plastic stage while cooling, but goes
>> directly from liquid to solid. This reduces the
>> possibilty of cold joints.

> Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?

I've also heard of that usage, but far less often. UK?

If you think that "Cold solder joint" is an error or somehow something I
made up, Google is your friend. ;-)

[John Williamson]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "geoff" > wrote in message
>
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> "Ian Bell" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> mcp6453 wrote:
>>>>> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that
>>>>> Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another source for
>>>>> 63/37?
>>>>
>>>> Is this significantly different to 60/40?
>
>>> The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does
>>> not go through a plastic stage while cooling, but goes
>>> directly from liquid to solid. This reduces the
>>> possibilty of cold joints.
>
>> Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?
>
> I've also heard of that usage, but far less often. UK?
>
> If you think that "Cold solder joint" is an error or somehow something I
> made up, Google is your friend. ;-)
>
>
It seems to be a cross-Atlantic divide. I call 'em dry joints, as do all
the electronics people I've worked with here in the UK, while Americans
seem to prefer cold joints. Either way, they're not a Good Thing(tm).

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[geoff]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "geoff" > wrote in message
>
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> "Ian Bell" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> mcp6453 wrote:
>>>>> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that
>>>>> Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another source for
>>>>> 63/37?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is this significantly different to 60/40?
>
>>> The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does
>>> not go through a plastic stage while cooling, but goes
>>> directly from liquid to solid. This reduces the
>>> possibilty of cold joints.
>
>> Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?
>
> I've also heard of that usage, but far less often. UK?
>
> If you think that "Cold solder joint" is an error or somehow
> something I made up, Google is your friend. ;-)

Always been 'dry joints' here. Cold solder was some crappy conductive glue
IIRC. But I guess usage varies. Hell in some countries they can't even
tell the difference between an ass and an arse !

(_)*(_)

geoff

There was a young girl from Madras,
Had a truely magnificent ass.
Not rounded and pink,
as you possibly think,
But was gray, had long ears, and ate grass.

[Arny Krueger]

"geoff" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "geoff" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>> "Ian Bell" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> mcp6453 wrote:
>>>>>> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23
>>>>>> that Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another
>>>>>> source for 63/37?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this significantly different to 60/40?
>>
>>>> The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does
>>>> not go through a plastic stage while cooling, but goes
>>>> directly from liquid to solid. This reduces the
>>>> possibilty of cold joints.
>>
>>> Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?
>>
>> I've also heard of that usage, but far less often. UK?
>>
>> If you think that "Cold solder joint" is an error or
>> somehow something I made up, Google is your friend. ;-)
>
> Always been 'dry joints' here. Cold solder was some
> crappy conductive glue IIRC. But I guess usage varies. Hell in some
> countries they can't even tell the
> difference between an ass and an arse !

Thinking about it, "dry joint" seems to be more descriptive of the
appearance of this kind of a bad solder joint. It looks dry and sandy
instead of smooth and liquid-like.

The cold joint terminology seems inverted, since the way you get them is to
move things while they are still too hot.

Hey, I didn't make American English up - I just live here so that is what I
speak! ;-)

[John Hardy]

On 3/10/2011 2:30 PM, Arny Krueger wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>>> "Ian > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>> mcp6453 wrote:
>>>>>>> The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23
>>>>>>> that Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another
>>>>>>> source for 63/37?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is this significantly different to 60/40?
>>>
>>>>> The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does
>>>>> not go through a plastic stage while cooling, but goes
>>>>> directly from liquid to solid. This reduces the
>>>>> possibilty of cold joints.
>>>
>>>> Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?
>>>
>>> I've also heard of that usage, but far less often. UK?
>>>
>>> If you think that "Cold solder joint" is an error or
>>> somehow something I made up, Google is your friend. ;-)
>>
>> Always been 'dry joints' here. Cold solder was some
>> crappy conductive glue IIRC. But I guess usage varies. Hell in some
>> countries they can't even tell the
>> difference between an ass and an arse !
>
> Thinking about it, "dry joint" seems to be more descriptive of the
> appearance of this kind of a bad solder joint. It looks dry and sandy
> instead of smooth and liquid-like.
>
> The cold joint terminology seems inverted, since the way you get them is to
> move things while they are still too hot.
>
> Hey, I didn't make American English up - I just live here so that is what I
> speak! ;-)
>
>
One way that I think of a "cold solder joint" is a joint where there is
a nice, shiny ball of solder on a component lead, but the solder never
made contact with the copper pad below (or the lug of the terminal
strip). Someone did not properly heat the pad (or lug), probably not the
component lead either. They just managed to get a ball of solder to
attach to the lead. Shiny ball, but useless. The solder got hot enough,
but the rest of the joint did not.

I made my share of cold solder joints in the early days, and still pay
close attention to avoid doing it again. I wave-solder everything in my
mic preamps except the four voltage regulators in the power supply for
the highest consistency and reliability. The regulators need to be
hand-soldered due to alignment problems with the heat sinks, chassis,
etc. I hand-solder them very carefully, to avoid cold solder joints.

John Hardy

[William Sommerwerck]

"Cold" and "dry" imply pretty much the same thing -- the solder and the
surfaces haven't gotten hot enough for the solder to flow freely and make a
proper bond, both mechanical and chemical.

[geoff]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "Cold" and "dry" imply pretty much the same thing -- the solder and
> the surfaces haven't gotten hot enough for the solder to flow freely
> and make a proper bond, both mechanical and chemical.

A dry joint has flowed fine, but moved while setting and become crystaline
(or something like that). A good joint can also become 'dry' with extended
vibration over years.

geoff

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

> "Cold" and "dry" imply pretty much the same thing -- the solder and
> the surfaces haven't gotten hot enough for the solder to flow freely
> and make a proper bond, both mechanical and chemical.

I would have thought that "dry" referenced a lack of flux rather than a lack
of heat.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Luxey]

On Mar 11, 7:21*am, "geoff" > wrote:

> A dry joint has flowed fine, but moved while setting and become crystaline
> (or something like that). A good joint can also become *'dry' with extended
> vibration over years.
>
> geoff

Those we call cold.

[John Williamson]

Peter Larsen wrote:
> William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
>> "Cold" and "dry" imply pretty much the same thing -- the solder and
>> the surfaces haven't gotten hot enough for the solder to flow freely
>> and make a proper bond, both mechanical and chemical.
>
> I would have thought that "dry" referenced a lack of flux rather than a lack
> of heat.
>
I was taught to call 'em dry joints, as against a good solder joint
which has a shiny, wet-looking surface. The cause may be bad temperature
control of the soldering station, a lack of flux, or movement during the
setting phase. Close examination of the joint will tell you which is the
actual cause. The cure is the same in all cases, though. Remove the bad
solder, and remake the joint, paying attention to cleanliness,
temperature, and movement while cooling. To call them cold joints
doesn't make sense to me, as that implies there's only one cause.
Especially as one cause of a "cold" joint can be a soldering iron that's
too hot.

As I've said elsewhere, though, it seems to be that in the UK, we call
them dry joints, and in the USA, you call them cold joints. Both refer
to a solder joint where the solder hasn't wetted the adjoining surfaces
sufficiently, causing a mechanically weak joint with dubious conductivity.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Mike Rivers]

On 3/11/2011 1:21 AM, geoff wrote:

> A dry joint has flowed fine, but moved while setting and become crystaline
> (or something like that).

Here in The Colonies, that's called a "cold" joint because
it was moved while the molten solder was cooling but not yet
fully solidified.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Arny Krueger]

"John Hardy" > wrote in message


> One way that I think of a "cold solder joint" is a joint
> where there is a nice, shiny ball of solder on a
> component lead, but the solder never made contact with
> the copper pad below (or the lug of the terminal strip).
> Someone did not properly heat the pad (or lug), probably
> not the component lead either. They just managed to get a
> ball of solder to attach to the lead. Shiny ball, but
> useless. The solder got hot enough, but the rest of the
> joint did not.

The inverse is also possible. There can be a nice shiny ball of solder on
the copper pad, but the lead remains dry.

> I made my share of cold solder joints in the early days,
> and still pay close attention to avoid doing it again. I
> wave-solder everything in my mic preamps except the four
> voltage regulators in the power supply for the highest
> consistency and reliability. The regulators need to be
> hand-soldered due to alignment problems with the heat
> sinks, chassis, etc. I hand-solder them very carefully,
> to avoid cold solder joints.

I don't think that anybody solders well enough to be able to bypass the
inspection step.

[William Sommerwerck]

> The cure is the same in all cases. Remove the bad solder...

This is critical. Just adding fresh solder isn't always enough.

[Steve King]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/11/2011 1:21 AM, geoff wrote:
>
>> A dry joint has flowed fine, but moved while setting and become
>> crystaline
>> (or something like that).
>
> Here in The Colonies, that's called a "cold" joint because it was moved
> while the molten solder was cooling but not yet fully solidified.
>

However the terms came into common use like so much jargon neither
accurately describes the condition, but we all know what we're talking about
and what to do about it.

Steve King

[Bill Graham]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "John Hardy" > wrote in message
>
>
>> One way that I think of a "cold solder joint" is a joint
>> where there is a nice, shiny ball of solder on a
>> component lead, but the solder never made contact with
>> the copper pad below (or the lug of the terminal strip).
>> Someone did not properly heat the pad (or lug), probably
>> not the component lead either. They just managed to get a
>> ball of solder to attach to the lead. Shiny ball, but
>> useless. The solder got hot enough, but the rest of the
>> joint did not.
>
> The inverse is also possible. There can be a nice shiny ball of
> solder on the copper pad, but the lead remains dry.
>
>> I made my share of cold solder joints in the early days,
>> and still pay close attention to avoid doing it again. I
>> wave-solder everything in my mic preamps except the four
>> voltage regulators in the power supply for the highest
>> consistency and reliability. The regulators need to be
>> hand-soldered due to alignment problems with the heat
>> sinks, chassis, etc. I hand-solder them very carefully,
>> to avoid cold solder joints.
>
> I don't think that anybody solders well enough to be able to bypass
> the inspection step.

In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder to the liquid
state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat the work until it melts
the solder, you won't have the problem.

[William Sommerwerck]

> In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
> to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat
> the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the problem.

Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the iron, and
let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating whatever component
is being soldered.

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>> In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
>> to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat
>> the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the problem.
>
>Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the iron, and
>let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating whatever component
>is being soldered.

In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You need
to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact with the work,
but the whole point is to heat the work and then the solder flows cleanly
and evenly onto it.

You overheat components by doing the opposite, because it takes longer to
get a good joint. The whole key is to dump a huge amount of heat into
the work, flow the solder, and then get out as quickly as possible.
Overheating is caused by too little heat or too little heat transfer, not
by too much.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bill Graham]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
>> to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat
>> the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the problem.
>
> Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the
> iron, and let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating
> whatever component is being soldered.

I touch the solder to the iron in order to facilitate heat transfer to the
work. Then, I heat the work until it melts the solder applied to the
opposite side. But I don't have much experience with nodern solid state
components, so it is entirely possible that I might damage some of them with
too much heat as you suggest. In this respect, common sense comes into
play....

[Mike Rivers]

On 3/11/2011 10:03 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You need
> to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact with the work,
> but the whole point is to heat the work and then the solder flows cleanly
> and evenly onto it.

Back then you could heat up the terminal lug and lead on a
terminal strip or tube socket without damage. It takes a
different interpretation of "heat the work" when the lug
equivalent is a pad on a circuit board. A dab of fresh
solder and flux on the tip of the iron helps the heat to
flow to the work, and then you add more solder to do the
work. That's not the same as transferring a blob of hot
conductive glue to where you want the joint to be.




--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[William Sommerwerck]

>> In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder.
>> You need to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good
>> contact with the work, but the whole point is to heat the work
>> and then the solder flows cleanly and evenly onto it.

> Back then you could heat up the terminal lug and lead on a
> terminal strip or tube socket without damage. It takes a
> different interpretation of "heat the work" when the lug
> equivalent is a pad on a circuit board. A dab of fresh
> solder and flux on the tip of the iron helps the heat to
> flow to the work, and then you add more solder to do the
> work. That's not the same as transferring a blob of hot
> conductive glue to where you want the joint to be.

That's a good description of how many, if not most of us, do it.

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey > wrote:

> William Sommerwerck > wrote:
> >> In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
> >> to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat
> >> the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the problem.
> >
> >Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the iron, and
> >let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating whatever component
> >is being soldered.
>
> In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You need
> to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact with the work,
> but the whole point is to heat the work and then the solder flows cleanly
> and evenly onto it.
>
> You overheat components by doing the opposite, because it takes longer to
> get a good joint. The whole key is to dump a huge amount of heat into
> the work, flow the solder, and then get out as quickly as possible.
> Overheating is caused by too little heat or too little heat transfer, not
> by too much.
> --scott

I recently met some Neutrik knock-offs that are identical in every way,
except quality.

Attempting to heat the work melted the body slug of the female XLR's.
Had to put the females into males as heat sinks just to be able to heat
the work slighlty and then heat the solder and the wire.

Ruined one slug and replaced it with one from a Neutrik clipped from the
church's old snake. Perfect fit.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman

[William Sommerwerck]

> I recently met some Neutrik knock-offs that are identical in every way,
> except quality.

> Attempting to heat the work melted the body slug of the female XLR's.
> Had to put the females into males as heat sinks just to be able to heat
> the work slighlty and then heat the solder and the wire.

> Ruined one slug and replaced it with one from a Neutrik clipped
> from the church's old snake. Perfect fit.

Which only goes to prove... You can't teach a cheap plug Neutriks.

[hank alrich]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:

> > I recently met some Neutrik knock-offs that are identical in every way,
> > except quality.
>
> > Attempting to heat the work melted the body slug of the female XLR's.
> > Had to put the females into males as heat sinks just to be able to heat
> > the work slighlty and then heat the solder and the wire.
>
> > Ruined one slug and replaced it with one from a Neutrik clipped
> > from the church's old snake. Perfect fit.
>
> Which only goes to prove... You can't teach a cheap plug Neutriks.

You're fired! <g>

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman

[Harry Lavo]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>>> In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
>>> to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat
>>> the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the problem.
>>
>>Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the iron,
>>and
>>let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating whatever
>>component
>>is being soldered.
>
> In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You need
> to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact with the work,
> but the whole point is to heat the work and then the solder flows cleanly
> and evenly onto it.
>
> You overheat components by doing the opposite, because it takes longer to
> get a good joint. The whole key is to dump a huge amount of heat into
> the work, flow the solder, and then get out as quickly as possible.
> Overheating is caused by too little heat or too little heat transfer, not
> by too much.

My dad was an EE, and a do-it-yourselfer and repaire technician in his spare
time. My first lesson in kit-building was just this (at his knee,
so-to-speak).

[Bill Graham]

Harry Lavo wrote:
> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
> ...
>> William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>>>> In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
>>>> to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat
>>>> the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the problem.
>>>
>>> Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the
>>> iron, and
>>> let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating whatever
>>> component
>>> is being soldered.
>>
>> In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You
>> need to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact
>> with the work, but the whole point is to heat the work and then the
>> solder flows cleanly and evenly onto it.
>>
>> You overheat components by doing the opposite, because it takes
>> longer to get a good joint. The whole key is to dump a huge amount
>> of heat into the work, flow the solder, and then get out as quickly
>> as possible. Overheating is caused by too little heat or too little
>> heat transfer, not by too much.
>
> My dad was an EE, and a do-it-yourselfer and repaire technician in
> his spare time. My first lesson in kit-building was just this (at
> his knee, so-to-speak).

I learned by building Heath Kits back in the 50's....I wish I had a few of
them now, as keepsakes.....

[Harry Lavo]

"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
> Harry Lavo wrote:
>> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>>>>> In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
>>>>> to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat
>>>>> the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the problem.
>>>>
>>>> Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the
>>>> iron, and
>>>> let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating whatever
>>>> component
>>>> is being soldered.
>>>
>>> In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You
>>> need to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact
>>> with the work, but the whole point is to heat the work and then the
>>> solder flows cleanly and evenly onto it.
>>>
>>> You overheat components by doing the opposite, because it takes
>>> longer to get a good joint. The whole key is to dump a huge amount
>>> of heat into the work, flow the solder, and then get out as quickly
>>> as possible. Overheating is caused by too little heat or too little
>>> heat transfer, not by too much.
>>
>> My dad was an EE, and a do-it-yourselfer and repaire technician in
>> his spare time. My first lesson in kit-building was just this (at
>> his knee, so-to-speak).
>
> I learned by building Heath Kits back in the 50's....I wish I had a few of
> them now, as keepsakes.....

Still have the manual for the AJ-15 tuner, the last Heathkit I ever built.
A really woolly-sounding piece of gear...it didn't last long in my system.

Those old Eico's, though....... (sigh)

[Doug McDonald[_6_]]

On 3/13/2011 8:51 PM, Harry Lavo wrote:

>>
>> In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You need
>> to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact with the work,
>> but the whole point is to heat the work and then the solder flows cleanly
>> and evenly onto it.
>>
>> You overheat components by doing the opposite, because it takes longer to
>> get a good joint. The whole key is to dump a huge amount of heat into
>> the work, flow the solder, and then get out as quickly as possible.
>> Overheating is caused by too little heat or too little heat transfer, not
>> by too much.
>
> My dad was an EE, and a do-it-yourselfer and repaire technician in his spare
> time. My first lesson in kit-building was just this (at his knee,
> so-to-speak).
>
>

I have lots of experience in this. Really. And I find this best:

Make sure the iron is up to temperature.

Add a tiny bit of solder to the iron.

Touch the iron to the connection, trying to get it to touch both the
terminal and the wire(s) connected to it.

Don't wait ... instantly touch the solder to the junction between
the iron and the work. This melts enough solder so that the heat
conduction between the iron and work gets much bigger, this heating the
work fast.

Touch the solder to a part of the work away from the iron to see
if it melts. If so, finish the job. If not, wait a second and try again.

As said, of course, the goal is to heat everything up rapidly.

Doug McDonald

[John Williamson]

Doug McDonald wrote:
> On 3/13/2011 8:51 PM, Harry Lavo wrote:
>
>>>
>>> In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You need
>>> to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact with the
>>> work,
>>> but the whole point is to heat the work and then the solder flows
>>> cleanly
>>> and evenly onto it.
>>>
>>> You overheat components by doing the opposite, because it takes
>>> longer to
>>> get a good joint. The whole key is to dump a huge amount of heat into
>>> the work, flow the solder, and then get out as quickly as possible.
>>> Overheating is caused by too little heat or too little heat transfer,
>>> not
>>> by too much.
>>
>> My dad was an EE, and a do-it-yourselfer and repaire technician in his
>> spare
>> time. My first lesson in kit-building was just this (at his knee,
>> so-to-speak).
>>
>>
>
> I have lots of experience in this. Really. And I find this best:
>
> Make sure the iron is up to temperature.
>
> Add a tiny bit of solder to the iron.
>
> Touch the iron to the connection, trying to get it to touch both the
> terminal and the wire(s) connected to it.
>
> Don't wait ... instantly touch the solder to the junction between
> the iron and the work. This melts enough solder so that the heat
> conduction between the iron and work gets much bigger, this heating the
> work fast.
>
> Touch the solder to a part of the work away from the iron to see
> if it melts. If so, finish the job. If not, wait a second and try again.
>
> As said, of course, the goal is to heat everything up rapidly.
>
You've been watching me, haven't you?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Bill Graham]

Harry Lavo wrote:
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Harry Lavo wrote:
>>> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>>>>>> In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
>>>>>> to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you
>>>>>> heat the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the
>>>>> iron, and
>>>>> let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating whatever
>>>>> component
>>>>> is being soldered.
>>>>
>>>> In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You
>>>> need to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact
>>>> with the work, but the whole point is to heat the work and then the
>>>> solder flows cleanly and evenly onto it.
>>>>
>>>> You overheat components by doing the opposite, because it takes
>>>> longer to get a good joint. The whole key is to dump a huge amount
>>>> of heat into the work, flow the solder, and then get out as quickly
>>>> as possible. Overheating is caused by too little heat or too little
>>>> heat transfer, not by too much.
>>>
>>> My dad was an EE, and a do-it-yourselfer and repaire technician in
>>> his spare time. My first lesson in kit-building was just this (at
>>> his knee, so-to-speak).
>>
>> I learned by building Heath Kits back in the 50's....I wish I had a
>> few of them now, as keepsakes.....
>
> Still have the manual for the AJ-15 tuner, the last Heathkit I ever
> built. A really woolly-sounding piece of gear...it didn't last long
> in my system.
> Those old Eico's, though....... (sigh)

My crowning achievement was the Williamson Amplifier. A really impressive
piece of gear back in those days....