Who innovated the parametric eq?

[Arny Krueger]

The current issue of FOH (2/2011) has a RIP for Bruce Jackson on the front
page. It says that "... his audio innovations include the first parametric
eq...". He was never on my short list for that one. I'm thinking that
someone at Bell Labs might be more deserving and a heck of a lot older.

Anybody got any better nominations?

[Rick Ruskin]

On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:25:11 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>The current issue of FOH (2/2011) has a RIP for Bruce Jackson on the front
>page. It says that "... his audio innovations include the first parametric
>eq...". He was never on my short list for that one. I'm thinking that
>someone at Bell Labs might be more deserving and a heck of a lot older.
>
>Anybody got any better nominations?
>


I thought that the Flickinger was the 1st to include them on his
consoles but don't know if they were original to him.


Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[Scott Dorsey]

Arny Krueger > wrote:
>The current issue of FOH (2/2011) has a RIP for Bruce Jackson on the front
>page. It says that "... his audio innovations include the first parametric
>eq...". He was never on my short list for that one. I'm thinking that
>someone at Bell Labs might be more deserving and a heck of a lot older.
>
>Anybody got any better nominations?

I believe Mr. Jackson was the first person to build a mixing console with
fully-parametric EQ integrated.

The first parametric was designed by George Massenburg and Burgess McNeil
at ITI in Maryland.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Steve King]

"Rick Ruskin" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:25:11 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>>The current issue of FOH (2/2011) has a RIP for Bruce Jackson on the front
>>page. It says that "... his audio innovations include the first parametric
>>eq...". He was never on my short list for that one. I'm thinking that
>>someone at Bell Labs might be more deserving and a heck of a lot older.
>>
>>Anybody got any better nominations?
>>
>
>
> I thought that the Flickinger was the 1st to include them on his
> consoles but don't know if they were original to him.
>
>
> Rick Ruskin
> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
> http://liondogmusic.com
> http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

Didn't Spectrasonics make a modular parametric around 1968? Or maybe the
frequency selection was switched to discreet frequencies. I can't remember.
The studio I worked at at that time had a couple of those modules. Paragon
Recording in Chicago was an early customer of Dan Flickenger. The
parametrics in his mixing console were really sweet.

Steve King

[Rick Ruskin]

On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 14:02:36 -0600, "Steve King"
> wrote:

>"Rick Ruskin" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:25:11 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>The current issue of FOH (2/2011) has a RIP for Bruce Jackson on the front
>>>page. It says that "... his audio innovations include the first parametric
>>>eq...". He was never on my short list for that one. I'm thinking that
>>>someone at Bell Labs might be more deserving and a heck of a lot older.
>>>
>>>Anybody got any better nominations?
>>>
>>
>>
>> I thought that the Flickinger was the 1st to include them on his
>> consoles but don't know if they were original to him.
>>
>>
>> Rick Ruskin
>> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
>> http://liondogmusic.com
>> http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin
>
>Didn't Spectrasonics make a modular parametric around 1968? Or maybe the
>frequency selection was switched to discreet frequencies. I can't remember.
>The studio I worked at at that time had a couple of those modules. Paragon
>Recording in Chicago was an early customer of Dan Flickenger. The
>parametrics in his mixing console were really sweet.
>
>Steve King

The only SpectraSonics eq's I've ever seen were the 2 or 3 range
switchable either was meant to be inserted in the feedback loop of the
101 and 110 preamp cards. They 3 range units are really nice.

Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin

[PStamler]

When was the Orban? Not part of a console of course, but it was an
early stand-alone parametric.

Peace,
Paul

[Steve King]

"Rick Ruskin" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 14:02:36 -0600, "Steve King"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Rick Ruskin" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:25:11 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The current issue of FOH (2/2011) has a RIP for Bruce Jackson on the
>>>>front
>>>>page. It says that "... his audio innovations include the first
>>>>parametric
>>>>eq...". He was never on my short list for that one. I'm thinking that
>>>>someone at Bell Labs might be more deserving and a heck of a lot older.
>>>>
>>>>Anybody got any better nominations?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I thought that the Flickinger was the 1st to include them on his
>>> consoles but don't know if they were original to him.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick Ruskin
>>> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
>>> http://liondogmusic.com
>>> http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin
>>
>>Didn't Spectrasonics make a modular parametric around 1968? Or maybe the
>>frequency selection was switched to discreet frequencies. I can't
>>remember.
>>The studio I worked at at that time had a couple of those modules.
>>Paragon
>>Recording in Chicago was an early customer of Dan Flickenger. The
>>parametrics in his mixing console were really sweet.
>>
>>Steve King
>
> The only SpectraSonics eq's I've ever seen were the 2 or 3 range
> switchable either was meant to be inserted in the feedback loop of the
> 101 and 110 preamp cards. They 3 range units are really nice.
>

That must have been what we had. I do remember building a little power
supply for it and several other modules which we mounted in a box with in
and out jacks so we could move it from studio to studio. Was Lang the maker
of a little optical compressor at about that time?

Steve King

[Mike Rivers]

On 2/18/2011 1:25 PM, Arny Krueger wrote:
> The current issue of FOH (2/2011) has a RIP for Bruce Jackson on the front
> page. It says that "... his audio innovations include the first parametric
> eq...". He was never on my short list for that one. I'm thinking that
> someone at Bell Labs might be more deserving and a heck of a lot older.

I thought George Massenberg took credit for developing
parametric EQ for audio work.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Art Vanderlay]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Arny Krueger > wrote:
>> The current issue of FOH (2/2011) has a RIP for Bruce Jackson on the front
>> page. It says that "... his audio innovations include the first parametric
>> eq...". He was never on my short list for that one. I'm thinking that
>> someone at Bell Labs might be more deserving and a heck of a lot older.
>>
>> Anybody got any better nominations?
>
> I believe Mr. Jackson was the first person to build a mixing console with
> fully-parametric EQ integrated.
>
> The first parametric was designed by George Massenburg and Burgess McNeil
> at ITI in Maryland.
> --scott
Scott's correct.

He designed the first Live mixing console that contained parametric eq.
I believe this was the one for Jands that folded in half into it's own
case for transport.

[William Sommerwerck]

Might I ask a stupid question? Or should I say, make an obvious point?

The question is correctly phrased -- who innovated parametric EQ, not who
"invented" it.

The idea of varying the Q and/or center frequency is implicit in network
analysis/design, and the implementation of electronic equalization. It
needed only await the development of sufficiently high-quality op amps to
make it practical.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

> Might I ask a stupid question? Or should I say, make an obvious point?

> The question is correctly phrased -- who innovated parametric EQ, not
> who "invented" it.

I am not sure you are right, each innovation constitutes An invention, the
invention being to make adjustment user accessible via the front panel so as
to be able to use it artistically.

> The idea of varying the Q and/or center frequency is implicit in
> network analysis/design, and the implementation of electronic
> equalization.

True, but that context is the one of compensation for a known transfer
function error, such as in telephony and tape recorder circuitry.

> It needed only await the development of sufficiently
> high-quality op amps to make it practical.

Ah yes, but erm, my understanding is that it is perfectly possible to make a
very high quality opamp with valves. Conceiveably you could have a point,
but making it requires referencing a pre existing parametric equalizer, ie.
with q and center frequency adjustment accessible on the outside of the box
that was used in a technical context, such as telephone line eq.

IF so, then yes, then using it for artistic purposes constitute innovation
rather than invention, but putting the controls on the outside of the box
constitutes invention.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[hank alrich]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:

> Might I ask a stupid question? Or should I say, make an obvious point?
>
> The question is correctly phrased -- who innovated parametric EQ, not who
> "invented" it.
>
> The idea of varying the Q and/or center frequency is implicit in network
> analysis/design, and the implementation of electronic equalization. It
> needed only await the development of sufficiently high-quality op amps to
> make it practical.

"With the development of the tunable parametric filter by Harold Seidel
of Western Electric and Bell Telephone in 1969[1][2][3] and its
introduction to the audio industry in 1972 by George Massenburg, audio
engineers were able to make much more precise modifications to a sound
signal."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parametric_equalizer

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman

[Luxey]

On 19 феб, 02:18, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> On 2/18/2011 1:25 PM, Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> > The current issue of FOH (2/2011) has a RIP for Bruce Jackson on the front
> > page. It says that "... his audio innovations include the first parametric
> > eq...". He was never on my short list for that one. I'm thinking that
> > someone at Bell Labs might be more deserving and a heck of a lot older.
>
> I thought George Massenberg took credit for developing
> parametric EQ for audio work.
>
> --
> "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
> operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
> it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
> of audio." - John Watkinson
>
> http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com- useful and
> interesting audio stuff

Not so long time ago, the very same George Massenberg had
an entry on RAP CDs, even posted messages over here.

Now we have "better" experts for a guide.

[Mark]

On Feb 19, 5:57Â*am, Luxey > wrote:
> On 19 феб, 02:18, Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 2/18/2011 1:25 PM, Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> > > The current issue of FOH (2/2011) has a RIP for Bruce Jackson on the front
> > > page. It says that "... his audio innovations include the first parametric
> > > eq...". He was never on my short list for that one. I'm thinking that
> > > someone at Bell Labs might be more deserving and a heck of a lot older.

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>Might I ask a stupid question? Or should I say, make an obvious point?
>
>The question is correctly phrased -- who innovated parametric EQ, not who
>"invented" it.

Everybody did.

I could claim to have innovated the parametric since I was the first person
to chain multiple parametric equalizers into an improvised replacement for
a speaker crossover. The show must go on.

>The idea of varying the Q and/or center frequency is implicit in network
>analysis/design, and the implementation of electronic equalization. It
>needed only await the development of sufficiently high-quality op amps to
>make it practical.

It also needed someone to realize that it was a useful thing to have, and
how to configure it. And then someone to figure out how to use it in
practice.

I don't know who figured out the typical "boost/sweep/cut" technique for
resonance control but it's one of those things that seems obvious once you
hear about it, but which took some ingenuity to come up with in the first
place.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Mark > wrote:
>probably not the first and its not a parametric, but nonetheless
>interesting reading about the audio baton created by ben tongue
>
>http://www.endino.com/photo9.html

This neglects to mention that the thing is really pretty useless. This may
in fact have been the first graphic EQ, predating the Altec by a short bit.
But it really sounded pretty dreadful, in spite of the cool lights.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[William Sommerwerck]

>> The idea of varying the Q and/or center frequency is implicit
>> in network analysis/design, and the implementation of electronic
>> equalization. It needed only await the development of sufficiently
>> high-quality op amps to make it practical.

> It also needed someone to realize that it was a useful thing to have,
> and how to configure it. And then someone to figure out how to
> use it in practice.

I hardly ever disagree with you, Scott, but that's like saying it's a good
idea to have gas in your car's tank.


> I don't know who figured out the typical "boost/sweep/cut" technique
> for resonance control but it's one of those things that seems obvious
> once you hear about it, but which took some ingenuity to come up
> with in the first place.

Isn't Boner generally given credit? Or am I thinking of something else?

[Ty Ford]

On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:25:11 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article >):

> The current issue of FOH (2/2011) has a RIP for Bruce Jackson on the front
> page. It says that "... his audio innovations include the first parametric
> eq...". He was never on my short list for that one. I'm thinking that
> someone at Bell Labs might be more deserving and a heck of a lot older.
>
> Anybody got any better nominations?
>
>

George Massenburg invented it.

He's alive and well in Montreal these days.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Ty Ford]

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:24:08 -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article >):
> It also needed someone to realize that it was a useful thing to have, and
> how to configure it. And then someone to figure out how to use it in
> practice.
>
> I don't know who figured out the typical "boost/sweep/cut" technique for
> resonance control but it's one of those things that seems obvious once you
> hear about it, but which took some ingenuity to come up with in the first
> place.
> --scott


AIR, in conversations with George or elsewhere, he did it because he was
unhappy with the lack of control that existing EQ offered. A better tool was
required. George's education as a Johns Hopkins Engineering Student had
prepared him for that sort of work.

He and Burgess are both very bright chaps.

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA

[Arny Krueger]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in
message
>>> The idea of varying the Q and/or center frequency is
>>> implicit
>>> in network analysis/design, and the implementation of
>>> electronic equalization. It needed only await the
>>> development of sufficiently high-quality op amps to
>>> make it practical.
>
>> It also needed someone to realize that it was a useful
>> thing to have, and how to configure it. And then
>> someone to figure out how to
>> use it in practice.
>
> I hardly ever disagree with you, Scott, but that's like
> saying it's a good idea to have gas in your car's tank.
>
>
>> I don't know who figured out the typical
>> "boost/sweep/cut" technique for resonance control but
>> it's one of those things that seems obvious once you
>> hear about it, but which took some ingenuity to come up
>> with in the first place.
>
> Isn't Boner generally given credit? Or am I thinking of
> something else?

Boner is generally credited with orginating the idea of adding eq (initially
in the form of purpose-built passive LCR circuits) to live sound systems to
tailor them for specific venues and events.

[hank alrich]

Ty Ford > wrote:

> George Massenburg invented it.

"With the development of the tunable parametric filter by Harold Seidel
of Western Electric and Bell Telephone in 1969[1][2][3]"...

I posted a link elsewhere in this thread.

So George was building one prior work. Nothing wrong with that.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>>> The idea of varying the Q and/or center frequency is implicit
>>> in network analysis/design, and the implementation of electronic
>>> equalization. It needed only await the development of sufficiently
>>> high-quality op amps to make it practical.
>
>> It also needed someone to realize that it was a useful thing to have,
>> and how to configure it. And then someone to figure out how to
>> use it in practice.
>
>I hardly ever disagree with you, Scott, but that's like saying it's a good
>idea to have gas in your car's tank.

Yeah, pretty much. But it is, indeed, a good idea to have gas.

I guess it's more like saying that after someone invented the car, someone
else had to invent the stop sign and someone else had to invent the notion
of driving on the right side of the road.

All of these things are important.

>> I don't know who figured out the typical "boost/sweep/cut" technique
>> for resonance control but it's one of those things that seems obvious
>> once you hear about it, but which took some ingenuity to come up
>> with in the first place.
>
>Isn't Boner generally given credit? Or am I thinking of something else?

I don't know.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Sean Conolly]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
>>> The idea of varying the Q and/or center frequency is implicit
>>> in network analysis/design, and the implementation of electronic
>>> equalization. It needed only await the development of sufficiently
>>> high-quality op amps to make it practical.
>
>> It also needed someone to realize that it was a useful thing to have,
>> and how to configure it. And then someone to figure out how to
>> use it in practice.
>
> I hardly ever disagree with you, Scott, but that's like saying it's a good
> idea to have gas in your car's tank.

Well, at one time gasoline was just a useless and dangerous byproduct of
refining kerosene, till someone came up with the innovative idea of using it
as a new fuel for internal combustion engines.

Sean

[Ty Ford]

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 16:26:03 -0500, hank alrich wrote
(in article >):

> Ty Ford > wrote:
>
>> George Massenburg invented it.
>
> "With the development of the tunable parametric filter by Harold Seidel
> of Western Electric and Bell Telephone in 1969[1][2][3]"...
>
> I posted a link elsewhere in this thread.
>
> So George was building one prior work. Nothing wrong with that.

Providing he knew about Seidel.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA